2024 US Presidential Election

First topic message reminder :

Thought we should have a thread on it, as Ron DeSantis is expected to launch his campaign on Twitter this evening. He's trailing Trump by a big margin for the Republican nomination, around 37% behind in the polling average. But there's a lot of time for things to change and the oddsmakers only have DeSantis as a 2/1 outsider, against Trump's 2/5. Doesn't appear to be any other serious contenders for the Republican nomination at this point.

Biden is expected to run again and defend his crown, but his advancing age (he's into his 80s now) and low approval ratings means he may be vulnerable to a Democratic challenger. The most likely challenger seems to be Robert Kennedy Jr. who has already announced his candidacy and has polled as high as 21%, but that was still 49% behind Biden. As such, Biden's a 2/9 clear favourite to be the Democrat nominee in 2024, but if he drops out for whatever reason then the race is wide open.

Only 531 days until the election...

mountain man wrote:By all accounts quite a punchy state of union address by Biden. I didn't watch it just read BBC report.
Seemed more of a campaign speech than anything else?

The old boy managed to get through his address pretty much okay.....Maybe Navy is right to admonish us for asking for the white coats just yet....

I expected "doddering Joe" but he got through a lengthy speech.....A worry for Trump. But then again no doubt Biden is struggling and 8 months is a long time.

We'll see.....But well done sleepy Joe for now...

Have a good weekend folks...

CC poll....

Biden
App.....34
Disapp 56

Rasmusson

App.....42
Disapp.56

Two pollsters........Two completely different results..........A landslide for Trump and a safe hold for Biden...

Very fluid this Election....

Senile vs senile and detranged

So both Biden and Trump officially over the line in terms of securing the delegates necessary to win their respective party nominations.

Good time to look at the state of the race.

RealClearPolitics has Trump ahead by 1.8% in the national polling average, in a simple head to head. This is an improvement for Trump of 8.1% on where he was this time four years ago.

When Kennedy is added to the polls, making it a three way race, Trump's lead extends to 4.3%, a pretty clear indicator that Kennedy is hurting Biden more than Trump. Kennedy's average is currently 15%, but I'd expect this to fall off...unless he gets into the debates, which would be quite something.

The race is currently focused on six key states - Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

Trump is posting clear leads in Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, backed up with a solid lead in Michigan and a narrow one in Wisconsin. Biden currently has a narrow lead in Pennsylvania.

This would leave the Electoral College 293-245 in favour of the Republicans.

However, Biden is not yet in proper campaigning mode, and we'll see if the gap closes as he gets on the campaign trail. The main concern from the Democrats perspective is that Trump has shown to be a great campaigner in the closing weeks of the 2016 and 2020 campaigns, and if the same happens again then Biden is surely toast.

As Truss pointed out, the approval ratings are interesting. Biden's net approval on 538 is currently 7% worse than Trump four years ago, while on RCP it's 8% worse. Biden's net approval on RCP is 20% worse than Obama's at the same stage, the last President to win reelection, so we can see the size of the task ahead of Biden. He basically has to hope the dislike of Trump is stronger than the dislike of him.

Just under 8 months to go!

The State of the Union address was just one big lump of campaigning from Biden...

The problem with Biden is they have to keep him hidden......Fallen over at least three times....Can't remember names or dates....

They will go hard on TV ads instead calling Trump a sex pest and con man.....Trump will respond by saying Biden belongs in a home and nothing will be done to address the plight of millions of Americans treading water...

Won't be much different over here......Starmer is an Antisemite.....Sunak hates muslims etc.....You wonder why Galloway types are winning ??

Smart move for Trump would be to pick Haley for the VP slot.....Her admirers and there are many will bet Trump who lives on Coke and burgers won't last and she gets the job.

Haley then can ask for moderates to come together for her new best friend....and we can all sing Kum ba yah.

As for Biden he won't mind too much being behind in the Margin of error....All incumbents get a push at election time when it is time to X the spot.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:....and we can all sing Kum ba yah....

Nearly snorted my coffee over the keyboard....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The State of the Union address was just one big lump of campaigning from Biden...

The problem with Biden is they have to keep him hidden......Fallen over at least three times....Can't remember names or dates....

They will go hard on TV ads instead calling Trump a sex pest and con man.....Trump will respond by saying Biden belongs in a home and nothing will be done to address the plight of millions of Americans treading water...

Won't be much different over here......Starmer is an Antisemite.....Sunak hates muslims etc.....You wonder why Galloway types are winning ??

Smart move for Trump would be to pick Haley for the VP slot.....Her admirers and there are many will bet Trump who lives on Coke and burgers won't last and she gets the job.

Haley then can ask for moderates to come together for her new best friend....and we can all sing Kum ba yah.

As for Biden he won't mind too much being behind in the Margin of error....All incumbents get a push at election time when it is time to X the spot.

That will be news to his wife and children

Trumpy has got a bit of a money problem..This $460 million bond seems bigger than his piggy bank...

When the Emperor Tiberius inherited the throne off Augustus after being previously kicked out of Rome to the island of Rhodes....A sage observed "There will be heads on the streets as all who return to rule from banishment rule bloodily"..

Trump will be no different....Four years of settling scores.

The monthly Bloomberg/Morning Consult poll showing the Kennedy factor; his presence, on the below numbers, allowing Trump to win 29 electoral college votes and extend his advantage in two other states offering a combined 17 electoral college votes.

Trump leads by 5% in Arizona in a simple H2H; extends to 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 7% in Georgia in a simple H2H; stays at 7% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump ties in Michigan in a simple H2H; stays a tie with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 2% in Nevada in a simple H2H; extends to 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 6% in North Carolina in a simple H2H; stays at 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump ties in Pennsylvania in a simple H2H; becomes a 6% lead with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump trails by 1% in Wisconsin in a simple H2H; becomes a 2% lead with Kennedy's inclusion.

But, overall, these numbers are showing a trend back towards Biden from last month's poll, which is good news for him and to be expected after the State of the Union address.

Probably be the most fluid election since Bush v Dukakis in 88........

Dukakis who was asked in a debate by the moderator about the death penalty (He was against it) Would he feel the same if his Wife was sexually assaulted and killed etc ?? Just answered matter of factly when instead he should have had a go at the Moron for asking such a tasteless question.

Never recovered.

Michigan

Trump 51
Biden..46

Not good for Biden..........One poll has Trump up by 10 in Georgia.....

These results would bring Biden down to 274.......with the winner needing 271.......

With other possible states to get Trump over..

Polls are continuing to trend back towards Biden. Trump's average national polling lead on RCP was up at 2%, but is now down to 0.2%, although of course, as we know, he doesn't need to win the popular vote to win the Presidency. That lead does jump up to 1.8% when Kennedy is included.

Kennedy difficult to poll it seems. A couple of national polls putting him at 2/3%, but most putting him in double digits.

Trump still leading comfortably in the polls in Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, as well as Florida/Ohio (both of which seem further away from the Democrats than usual), but Biden has the advantage in Pennsylvania and Minnesota. Albeit Biden's advantage in Pennsylvania seems down to an outlier poll putting him 10% ahead. Wisconsin very tight. Michigan, Trump has the lead. Michigan might be the state that decides everything.

For now, narrow advantage Trump (293 on the EC), but Biden is the current mover in the polls, and a long way to go. Biden currently dealing with Iran, and Trump dealing with one of his many court cases (if they ever pick a jury).

Would also add, based on early evidence:

Key states where Kennedy is helping Trump = Georgia, Pennsylvania, Florida (? based on a solitary poll), North Carolina, Arizona, Nevada
Key states where Kennedy is helping Biden = Michigan, Wisconsin

Couple of interesting recent polls re. any so-called 'Kennedy Effect' and effects on Biden and Trump. Suggestions are that he's maybe hurting Trump more than Biden.

https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/election-2024-april/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/rfk-jr-candidacy-hurts-trump-biden-nbc-news-poll-finds-rcna148536

Yes, those two polls are interesting, but they do tend to run against what most polling companies are finding. We'll see if that becomes an established trend. They are also finding quite a high level of Kennedy support.

I take Marist with a pinch of salt, because their polls tend to be much more favourable towards the Democrats than other polls (like Rasmussen with the Republicans). Marist had Biden's net approval at -6, for instance, when the average is -15.

Duty281 wrote:The monthly Bloomberg/Morning Consult poll showing the Kennedy factor; his presence, on the below numbers, allowing Trump to win 29 electoral college votes and extend his advantage in two other states offering a combined 17 electoral college votes.

Trump leads by 5% in Arizona in a simple H2H; extends to 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 7% in Georgia in a simple H2H; stays at 7% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump ties in Michigan in a simple H2H; stays a tie with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 2% in Nevada in a simple H2H; extends to 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 6% in North Carolina in a simple H2H; stays at 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump ties in Pennsylvania in a simple H2H; becomes a 6% lead with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump trails by 1% in Wisconsin in a simple H2H; becomes a 2% lead with Kennedy's inclusion.

But, overall, these numbers are showing a trend back towards Biden from last month's poll, which is good news for him and to be expected after the State of the Union address.

This month....

Trump leads by 7% in Arizona in a simple H2H; decreased to a 6% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (no change).
Trump leads by 6% in Georgia in a simple H2H; extends to 8% with Kennedy's inclusion (+1 for Trump).
Trump trails in Michigan by 2% in a simple H2H; trail extends to 3% with Kennedy's inclusion (-3 for Trump).
Trump leads by 8% in Nevada in a simple H2H; extends to 14% (!!!!!) with Kennedy's inclusion (+8 for Trump).
Trump leads by 10% in North Carolina in a simple H2H; stays at 10% with Kennedy's inclusion (+4 for Trump).
Trump leads by 1% in Pennsylvania in a simple H2H; stays a 1% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (-5 for Trump).
Trump leads by 4% in Wisconsin in a simple H2H; decreases to a 3% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (+1 for Trump).

So the polling is a bit wild, fair to say. Bloomberg is reporting it as Biden's polling bump largely vanishing, which is only true if you look at the simple H2Hs. If you look at with Kennedy included, and while he stays in the race you must look at it that way, it's really not bad polling for Biden, with Michigan going blue and Pennsylvania now a lot closer. Trump has extended his advantage, big league, in Nevada, though that's the only real change in his favour.

Trump wins 297-241 on this polling either way, but Biden would only need to flip Wisconsin and Pennsylvania to win 270-268.

Perhaps most concerningly for Biden, most swing state voters polled are pessimistic about the state of the economy, although abortion is becoming a bigger issue and this is one where Biden has the advantage.

Duty281 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The monthly Bloomberg/Morning Consult poll showing the Kennedy factor; his presence, on the below numbers, allowing Trump to win 29 electoral college votes and extend his advantage in two other states offering a combined 17 electoral college votes.

Trump leads by 5% in Arizona in a simple H2H; extends to 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 7% in Georgia in a simple H2H; stays at 7% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump ties in Michigan in a simple H2H; stays a tie with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 2% in Nevada in a simple H2H; extends to 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump leads by 6% in North Carolina in a simple H2H; stays at 6% with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump ties in Pennsylvania in a simple H2H; becomes a 6% lead with Kennedy's inclusion.
Trump trails by 1% in Wisconsin in a simple H2H; becomes a 2% lead with Kennedy's inclusion.

But, overall, these numbers are showing a trend back towards Biden from last month's poll, which is good news for him and to be expected after the State of the Union address.

This month....

Trump leads by 7% in Arizona in a simple H2H; decreased to a 6% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (no change).
Trump leads by 6% in Georgia in a simple H2H; extends to 8% with Kennedy's inclusion (+1 for Trump).
Trump trails in Michigan by 2% in a simple H2H; trail extends to 3% with Kennedy's inclusion (-3 for Trump).
Trump leads by 8% in Nevada in a simple H2H; extends to 14% (!!!!!) with Kennedy's inclusion (+8 for Trump).
Trump leads by 10% in North Carolina in a simple H2H; stays at 10% with Kennedy's inclusion (+4 for Trump).
Trump leads by 1% in Pennsylvania in a simple H2H; stays a 1% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (-5 for Trump).
Trump leads by 4% in Wisconsin in a simple H2H; decreases to a 3% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (+1 for Trump).

So the polling is a bit wild, fair to say. Bloomberg is reporting it as Biden's polling bump largely vanishing, which is only true if you look at the simple H2Hs. If you look at with Kennedy included, and while he stays in the race you must look at it that way, it's really not bad polling for Biden, with Michigan going blue and Pennsylvania now a lot closer. Trump has extended his advantage, big league, in Nevada, though that's the only real change in his favour.

Trump wins 297-241 on this polling either way, but Biden would only need to flip Wisconsin and Pennsylvania to win 270-268.

Perhaps most concerningly for Biden, most swing state voters polled are pessimistic about the state of the economy, although abortion is becoming a bigger issue and this is one where Biden has the advantage.

Number one issue in the US will always be Healthcare.....62% of bankruptcies in America are due to Health costs.....Why as an outsider looking in I respect your NHS probably more than most Brits.....Though hypocritically we go down the private route..

Huge respect for your Attlee govt of 45 and it's compassionate policies.....Just as FDR will always be my favorite President with the new deal...

The economy and to a lesser extent immigration comes next.......Roe v Wade comes further down the list...

The Hill/Emerson also doing polling in swing states. They've got Trump leading in all 7 of the swing states polled (the same 7 as Bloomberg/Morning Consult), in both basic H2Hs and when Kennedy is included.

Trump's lead is extended in Georgia, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin when Kennedy is added. Arizona and Michigan remain the same.

Trump would win 312-226 on that polling. Has been a good last week for Trump on the polls.

I love Rasmussen's polls, they're completely unhinged. I don't think they do any actual polling, they just write some numbers down and go with it.

Duty281 wrote:

I love Rasmussen's polls, they're completely unhinged. I don't think they do any actual polling, they just write some numbers down and go with it.

You know where their biases are by the title using "President Trump". I hate to point this out to them, but...

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

I love Rasmussen's polls, they're completely unhinged. I don't think they do any actual polling, they just write some numbers down and go with it.

You know where their biases are by the title using "President Trump". I hate to point this out to them, but...

And the two pictures. Biden looking confused and small. Trump looking tall and Presidential.

Duty281 wrote:The Hill/Emerson also doing polling in swing states. They've got Trump leading in all 7 of the swing states polled (the same 7 as Bloomberg/Morning Consult), in both basic H2Hs and when Kennedy is included.

Trump's lead is extended in Georgia, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin when Kennedy is added. Arizona and Michigan remain the same.

Trump would win 312-226 on that polling. Has been a good last week for Trump on the polls.

NY Times/Siena joining in now. They've conducted polling on six of these key states (excluding North Carolina) and the findings are:

Trump leads by 6% in Arizona in a H2H, extending to 9% with Kennedy;
Trump leads by 9% in Georgia in a H2H, decreasing to 8% with Kennedy;
Biden leads by 1% in Michigan in a H2H, extending to 3% with Kennedy;
Trump leads by 13% in Nevada in a H2H; extending to 14% with Kennedy;
Trump leads by 3% in Pennsylvania in a H2H, extending to 4% with Kennedy;
Trump leads by 1% in Wisconsin in a H2H, staying at 1% with Kennedy;

Such numbers would return a 297-241 win for Trump (presuming all other states go the way as expected), but Biden only needs to flip Pennsylvania and Wisconsin to triumph. Looking more and more like those will be the two key states, alongside Michigan. Biden needs all three, Trump needs just one, as things stand.

Biden has suffered a drop in support from young voters, and Hispanic voters, and that's really hurting him.

176 days until the election and Trump is polling far better currently than he was this time four and eight years ago. But will it be enough?

How depressing

Sounds like a break with tradition and Biden/Trump will debate just twice, once in June and once in September.

The first one will be on June 27th in Georgia, hosted by CNN. There will be no audience at the venue. And no Kennedy.

I think the idea that 'tradition' means anything in US politics (and UK, to be honest) has long since left the building.

Duty281 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

And this month...

Trump leads by 5% in Arizona in a simple H2H (-2 from last month for Trump); stays at a 5% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (-1).
Trump leads by 3% in Georgia in a simple H2H (-3); extends to 5% with Kennedy's inclusion (-3).
Trump trails in Michigan by 1% in a simple H2H (+1); trail extends to 2% with Kennedy's inclusion (+1).
Trump ties in Nevada in a simple H2H (-8); extends to a 5% lead with Kennedy's inclusion (-9).
Trump leads by 7% in North Carolina in a simple H2H (-3); extends to 8% with Kennedy's inclusion (-2).
Trump leads by 2% in Pennsylvania in a simple H2H (+1); extends to 3% with Kennedy's inclusion (+2).
Trump leads by 1% in Wisconsin in a simple H2H (-3); stays at 1% with Kennedy's inclusion (-3).

So a lot of negatives this month for Trump, but he stays ahead in six of the seven states. His lead shrinking in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, NC and Wisconsin, however.

Nevada is a bizarre state. Hasn't gone red since 2004, and April's polling gave Trump a strangely massive lead, before reverting to something more normal this month. I still don't really regard NC as a swing state, the Republicans should be winning it quite comfortably. Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania all very tight as well. Kennedy's overall numbers seem to be dropping.

Trump wins 291-241 on the H2H polling, without counting Nevada as it's a tie, but five of those seven states have leads of 3% or fewer!

With Kennedy added, Trump adds Nevada to win 297-241, and his lead gets a bit safer in a couple of states. But it seems to be building to a very tight race, as Biden would only need to hold Michigan and flip Wisconsin and Pennsylvania to win 270-268.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/22/nikki-haley-trump-endorsement-2024-election

Haley finally endorses Trump.

https://x.com/ImMeme0/status/1794538902100865122

Fair play to Trump, as he walks into the Libertarian Convention against a hostile audience and firmly takes the p!ss out of them.

"[Nominate me] Only if you want to win. Maybe you don't want to win. If you want to lose, don't do that. Keep getting your 3% every four years."

Meanwhile, the Cook Political Report puts Trump ahead in six of the seven swing states, with a tie in Wisconsin, but it's narrow. Trump's lead just 3% in Pennsylvania and 2% in Michigan.

Going to be considered a dirty election with rigging alleged on both sides......Probably be riots whoever wins.....

1876 all over again.....

Sammy Tilden is the President that wasn't.....Democrat and likely winner of enough electoral votes (winning in the few States left to declare anyway)and 3% up on the national vote......However it still is I believe the election with the biggest ever voter turnout and the Republicans cried foul....An election commission was set up full of mostly Republcans and they managed to shave off enough votes to give Rutherford Hayes the election..

Tilden's vote of 51% remains the most for a losing candidate and the election is still a stain on the Country with the violence...and everything else that went with it......

Late 19th century was a bad time for the Country....The effects and devastation of the civil war..Two Presidential assassinations in 15 years.....Garfield replaced Hayes in 1880 and got assassinated at Washington station months later to be replaced by Chester Arthur who would have been the most corrupt guy to become President up to that point..........Warren Harding may have outclassed him in that regard in 1921.....Big recession in the 1890s that took care of Grover Cleveland to follow.

Trump v Biden 2 may make Hayes v Tilden look like child's play.

Great to see Dr Stein on the Green ticket.......Crooked Hillary blames her for losing in 2016 along with some others like people under 25....(Everyone but herself and her pervert Husband)...

Stein = Woman of integrity who is on the right side of every argument.......Best of luck to her.

Virginia poll - 42% Biden; 42% Trump.

Granted, it goes to a 2% lead for Biden when Kennedy is added, but Virginia is a solid blue state, like New Mexico and New Hampshire, that should be safe for Biden. If he's having to battle here, it's over. He won it by just over 10% in 2020.

Meanwhile Trump is dominating his solid red states, such as Texas, Florida and Ohio.

As a point of comparison, this polling company had Biden leading by 16% in this state last year. Down to 9% in August. 4% in February. Now tied in a H2H. It's shocking news for the Biden campaign.

Not too late to ditch him...

Christ, not even New York is safe. Recent polls giving Biden leads of just 6% and 9%, with independents breaking for Trump. This was a state Biden won by 23% in 2020. The lowest lead any poll had him in 2020 was 19%.

https://emersoncollegepolling.com/new-york-2024-poll-biden-48-trump-41/

Guilty as charged!!

Wow. All 34 charges.

Apparently max sentence for each charge is 4 years but whether he'll actually get any jail time is uncertain.
Obviously he'll appeal and no doubt use it as a campaign narrative but it's not a good look. No doubt his supporters be going nuts!

Just announced sentencing 11th July.

The best thing for Trump's campaign.

Highly unlikely to get prison time. Will be appealed and dragged out until after the election, apparently.

The judge has refused his appeal but apparently Trump can appeal that refusal.

The crazy thing is even if jailed he can still run and potentially win from prison.

Trump already on X grifting for money. Plenty of people will fall for the new con from the ultimate conman.

mountain man wrote:The judge has refused his appeal but apparently Trump can appeal that refusal.

The crazy thing is even if jailed he can still run and potentially win from prison.

Yes, a jury of 150 million can give their verdict.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Trump already on X grifting for money. Plenty of people will fall for the new con from the ultimate conman.

There's no grift. People can give their money to his campaign if they want. I'm sure the donations will be flooding in tonight.

True, legally there is no grift - it's not a fraud it's openly begging for money. Donations will be flooding in because a fool and his money are soon parted.

Wasn't sure the jury would unanimously find him guilty but presumably the prosecution made a very strong case. Doubt he will see prison time - and as we already see he is after his fan club to cover whatever fine is imposed.

However it will be interesting to see how this affects voting intentions. His rusted on fans will just be as ardent as ever of course ; but there have been comments from some supposed Republican voters that a criminal conviction would be too much for them to overlook. Now how many would be in that camp , whether it would lead to them switching or just not bothering to vote , is obviously impossible to know. My own gut feeling is the verdict would probably count against Trump among what one might call the "undecided" : but again , to what extent this changes the numbers in the key states is something that will only be revealed in time. For all his blathering about victimisation I can't see this result bringing him any new fans though.

The most recent polls don't indicate an issue for Trump in this regard.

Quinnipac has it at a guilty verdict making 11% more likely to vote for Trump; 21% less likely; 65% no difference
Emerson 23% more likely; 25% less likely; 53% no difference (rounding)
NPR/PBS/Marist has it, among definite voters, 15% for both more and less likely; 69% no difference. But, broken down by affiliation, it's 25% more likely for Republicans and 10% less likely; with independents 15% more likely and 11% less likely. Most of the less likely seems to be from Democrats....who wouldn't vote Trump anyway!

So, for now, no issue for Trump, perhaps even a small benefit among independents, and certainly solidifying and motivating his base further. But we'll see if that holds now the verdict is actually in.

The die hard Trump supporters be even more zealous than before(if that's possible) but undecided voters might just be swayed to disown him. That seems to be narrative I've read on BBC etc.

He's claiming it's all a witch hunt, Biden is the devil blah blah so his fans will lap all that up. More sane voters in US might just think voting for a convicted felon not best look.

The fact that potentially over half of Americans are fine with a convicted felon running the country just shows how low the country has sunk. They deserve whatever they get.
Bringing the charges against him may have been politically motivated, but Trump had 2 ways to avoid that. 1. Don't commit any crimes. 2. Commit the crimes but cover them up. He failed to do either.
If you can't do the time...

I think even the most anti Trump know it was politically motivated, general consensus I've read about it all is if it was anyone else it would be a non event.
However, fact is it happened. He was found guilty on all charges by jury of his peers not his political opponents etc so end of day he made a massive error and got found out and has paid the price.

However, as I said before I still find it hard to get my head around fact he could go to jail yet still be President. That really is nuts.

mountain man wrote:I think even the most anti Trump know it was politically motivated, general consensus I've read about it all is if it was anyone else it would be a non event.
However, fact is it happened. He was found guilty on all charges by jury of his peers not his political opponents etc so end of day he made a massive error and got found out and has paid the price.

However, as I said before I still find it hard to get my head around fact he could go to jail yet still be President. That really is nuts.

Exactly. Almost all American Presidents in recent history that preceded Trump are bigger crooks and bigger on the corruption scale, so who really cares about this?

so who really cares about this?

Everyone does now as it went to trial and he was found guilty.

Duty281 wrote:

mountain man wrote:I think even the most anti Trump know it was politically motivated, general consensus I've read about it all is if it was anyone else it would be a non event.
However, fact is it happened. He was found guilty on all charges by jury of his peers not his political opponents etc so end of day he made a massive error and got found out and has paid the price.

However, as I said before I still find it hard to get my head around fact he could go to jail yet still be President. That really is nuts.

Exactly. Almost all American Presidents in recent history that preceded Trump are bigger crooks and bigger on the corruption scale, so who really cares about this?

Which would again go to show how low the USA has sunk. Odd though that their political opponents failed to bring them down. I guess Trump was the only one stupid enough to let it happen.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

mountain man wrote:I think even the most anti Trump know it was politically motivated, general consensus I've read about it all is if it was anyone else it would be a non event.
However, fact is it happened. He was found guilty on all charges by jury of his peers not his political opponents etc so end of day he made a massive error and got found out and has paid the price.

However, as I said before I still find it hard to get my head around fact he could go to jail yet still be President. That really is nuts.

Exactly. Almost all American Presidents in recent history that preceded Trump are bigger crooks and bigger on the corruption scale, so who really cares about this?

Which would again go to show how low the USA has sunk. Odd though that their political opponents failed to bring them down. I guess Trump was the only one stupid enough to let it happen.

Political opponents? It's one big club and Trump ain't in it.

Deleted original post because it's not worth it.

Duty281 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

mountain man wrote:I think even the most anti Trump know it was politically motivated, general consensus I've read about it all is if it was anyone else it would be a non event.
However, fact is it happened. He was found guilty on all charges by jury of his peers not his political opponents etc so end of day he made a massive error and got found out and has paid the price.

However, as I said before I still find it hard to get my head around fact he could go to jail yet still be President. That really is nuts.

Exactly. Almost all American Presidents in recent history that preceded Trump are bigger crooks and bigger on the corruption scale, so who really cares about this?

Which would again go to show how low the USA has sunk. Odd though that their political opponents failed to bring them down. I guess Trump was the only one stupid enough to let it happen.

Political opponents? It's one big club and Trump ain't in it.

Oh I see. You think the Republicans don't actually want to bring down Biden (or Obama) and the Democrats did not want to bring down Bush (or Bush) because they're all in it together. Are they all lizard people, like the Royals?