Silly Season Transfer Rumours 23/24

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I need rumours.....and I need them now!

mikey_dragon wrote:I’ve seen most say that pushing Rowntree out is a mistake. He always seemed like a good coach. Munster have an injury crises and need to get replacements for some of their older players. If dragons don’t get Rowntree then it would be good for another Welsh team to get him…

Rowntree has got a good CV, I'm not sure Wales will be a particularly big draw for him. Possibly a short term deal until the summer as a consultant, I'd have thought he'd fancy another go with the Lions next summer. He has worked with Faz Snr before.

True, but Lee Blackett went to Scarlets on a temp basis and they improved during that time. I'd also much prefer him over Hump for team Wales.

mikey_dragon wrote:True, but Lee Blackett went to Scarlets on a temp basis and they improved during that time. I'd also much prefer him over Hump for team Wales.

Yeah as I said, maybe on a short term basis to the summer when he'll be hoping for another Lions Tour.

He'll have some interest for next season, particularly if he fancies a go over in France.

Not sure if already discussed, but Ruck are reporting Duhan
Van De Merwe is leaving Edinburgh to join La Rochelle at the end of the season. Not sure how true?

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Not sure if already discussed, but Ruck are reporting Duhan
Van De Merwe is leaving Edinburgh to join La Rochelle at the end of the season. Not sure how true?

Probably quite likely

Despite the noises they were making, I doubt Edinburgh have fought to hard to keep him.

For his part, he has been getting pretty cold standing out on the wing for Edinburgh and he no doubt fancies a good payday. He is 30 now, so this maybe his last big contract.

If the Scots want their clubs at the top of Europe then they need to be keeping the Tuipulotu's and Van der Merwe's, star players who bring in the supporters. I doubt they are as rich as the French clubs but if it were me I'd be trying to find ways to squeeze them in. Glasgow are not far off the elite club, but they need to keep their players and Franco Smith.

A winger, especially one the wrong side of 30, is not the player to break the bank for, especially if they gave not been that effective a player for you.

Scottish clubs, like everyone else have got to cut their cloth accordingly and we would not even be close to what he can earn in France.

Hard to be grudge him a payday either and the chance to play in a winning team. He has done 6 years at Edinburgh with very little to show for it.

Don't disagree with any of that either. I read about it a few weeks ago, I think La Rochelle aren't renewing Rhule's contract, he's been good for them when available.

At the top of the BBC Rugby Union Scottish page (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/scottish), Tom English goes through DVDM try scoring records for Edinburgh and Scotland

I like DVDM, he is a good player when provided opportunities in space. Edinburgh are not able to do that right now. The other parts to his game have not really developed far (kicking, defensive catching, positioning) or at all (tackling, work rate). He is a limited attacking winger who should age okay due to his size but the SRU do not have large sums of money and it is not like Edinburgh are competing for much at the minute. If anything, Edinburgh need a clearout of its senior players after years of underperformance at club level.

Tuipulotu is two years younger, a Glasgow/Scotland captain and arguably a Lions starter in a more vital position at a club with a clear identity, a settled coach and fighting for silverware domestically (well, URC) and will likely be in the knockout stages of the Champions Cup. One brother is now at Edinburgh and his other brother may also be coming over. Paying him (or at least giving him a strong offer) is a different scenario.

URC going all football. Second head coach gone in a week. Flanagan has left the Dragons with immediate effect.

formerly known as Sam wrote:URC going all football. Second head coach gone in a week. Flanagan has left the Dragons with immediate effect.

Yeah it’s a shock for some, but something had to be done. Graham Rowntree being lined up as his replacement.

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:URC going all football. Second head coach gone in a week. Flanagan has left the Dragons with immediate effect.

Yeah it’s a shock for some, but something had to be done. Graham Rowntree being lined up as his replacement.

Is that really happening? Are Dragons in for him? Would be exactly the type of head coach i think we need.

So

Jubilu to Sale
Anwanyu to Montpellier
Dan Kelly to Canaucht (spelling) but prob Munster
Bundle Aki to Toulon
Sales Du Preez twins off to France
Will Evans to France

Tuipolotu talking with the SRU with a view to re-signing with Glasgow.

Geordie wrote:So

Jubilu to Sale
Anwanyu to Montpellier
Dan Kelly to Canaucht (spelling) but prob Munster
Bundle Aki to Toulon
Sales Du Preez twins off to France
Will Evans to France

Allegedly. Normally I’d dismiss this as agents bidding up their players - but I suspect that there are still some pre-COVID contracts unwinding that might lead to unusual player movements.

I really hope Quins aren’t losing Jibulu and Anyanwu, though. I can understand Evans wanting to maximise his earnings given he is unlikely ever to get selected for England, but I would rather Quins fight to hold onto Jibulu and it seems madness for Anyanwu to go to France when the 12 spot for England is far from settled.

Yeah seems odd to lose two quality young players like them.  
.I'm used to it with us...but it's concerning when the big teams are starting to lose them.

Duhan Van der Merve is off to France also. I'm assuming that won't affect his eligibility for Scotland any.

Adam Beard off to Montpellier next season......

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:URC going all football. Second head coach gone in a week. Flanagan has left the Dragons with immediate effect.

Yeah it’s a shock for some, but something had to be done. Graham Rowntree being lined up as his replacement.

Is that really happening? Are Dragons in for him?  Would be exactly the type of head coach i think we need.  

Would be stupid for the Dragons not to even ask. Rowntree is available, knows the league and has a very good CV.

Geordie wrote:So

Jubilu to Sale
Anwanyu to Montpellier
Dan Kelly to Canaucht (spelling) but prob Munster
Bundle Aki to Toulon
Sales Du Preez twins off to France
Will Evans to France

Not really sure Connacht will look to recruit at centre. Thought they'd got the highly rated Irish under 20s 12 coming through. Hugh Gavin iirc he's a bit of a unit. They picked Piers O'Connor last summer and have Shayne Bolton a 13/wing who's in the Ireland training squad. Bundee Aki is rumoured to be off but how much budget that frees up with him on a central contract I don't know. If they've got bright talent emerging they might need to pay them first.

Munster have several centres so unless some are leaving doesn't make sense there either. Last summer when Munster and Connacht were shopping for centres would have been the time but Tigers wouldn't budge on an early release.

Jibulu was apparently courted by Exeter as well. They want a hooker and a scrum half for next season.

Poorfour wrote:

Geordie wrote:So

Jubilu to Sale
Anwanyu to Montpellier
Dan Kelly to Canaucht (spelling) but prob Munster
Bundle Aki to Toulon
Sales Du Preez twins off to France
Will Evans to France

Allegedly. Normally I’d dismiss this as agents bidding up their players - but I suspect that there are still some pre-COVID contracts unwinding that might lead to unusual player movements.

I really hope Quins aren’t losing Jibulu and Anyanwu, though. I can understand Evans wanting to maximise his earnings given he is unlikely ever to get selected for England, but I would rather Quins fight to hold onto Jibulu and it seems madness for Anyanwu to go to France when the 12 spot for England is far from settled.

Anyanwu though hasn't had a look in yet and it boils down to the fact he is 24 end of this month.  He probably is getting a great pay day with that and as we have seen with Willis once they get over there the money back in England can't compete.  He's probably thinking international selection isnt a given and although England pay 25K per game he knows he cant bank on that.  

I've said it before the Top14 will likely destroy English rugby in the long term.  Realistically England probably can only afford to keep around 60 English top end guys playing in the league (if that - probably no more than 40 if were being truthful).  Anyone outside that England squad is likely to try to max out their earnings and head to the top 14 if big offers come in.  So English rugby will either have their EPS squad, unproven youngsters, not good enough club pro's and overseas signings making up their rosters.

I'm not even sure how overseas will work next year.  Next year is when all the new brexit legislation is supposed to be hitting english club rugby and according to the laws only 2 non UK players are allowed in match day squads.  PRL delayed this change to allow clubs to adapt.  But when it does come in, I'm guessing they will have to lean on signing more Scottish and Welsh players in their teams.

The only problem with signing Welsh & Scottish players though will be that if they are any good they to will likely be targeted by Top 14 clubs as well and if they to are looking for big days the Top14 will win out here as well.

Adam Beard to Montpellier. I think I read somewhere that Paul Willemse might be retiring, after a few concussions.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

Geordie wrote:So

Jubilu to Sale
Anwanyu to Montpellier
Dan Kelly to Canaucht (spelling) but prob Munster
Bundle Aki to Toulon
Sales Du Preez twins off to France
Will Evans to France

Allegedly. Normally I’d dismiss this as agents bidding up their players - but I suspect that there are still some pre-COVID contracts unwinding that might lead to unusual player movements.

I really hope Quins aren’t losing Jibulu and Anyanwu, though. I can understand Evans wanting to maximise his earnings given he is unlikely ever to get selected for England, but I would rather Quins fight to hold onto Jibulu and it seems madness for Anyanwu to go to France when the 12 spot for England is far from settled.

Anyanwu though hasn't had a look in yet and it boils down to the fact he is 24 end of this month.  He probably is getting a great pay day with that and as we have seen with Willis once they get over there the money back in England can't compete.  He's probably thinking international selection isnt a given and although England pay 25K per game he knows he cant bank on that.  

I've said it before the Top14 will likely destroy English rugby in the long term.  Realistically England probably can only afford to keep around 60 English top end guys playing in the league (if that - probably no more than 40 if were being truthful).  Anyone outside that England squad is likely to try to max out their earnings and head to the top 14 if big offers come in.  So English rugby will either have their EPS squad, unproven youngsters, not good enough club pro's and overseas signings making up their rosters.

I'm not even sure how overseas will work next year.  Next year is when all the new brexit legislation is supposed to be hitting english club rugby and according to the laws only 2 non UK players are allowed in match day squads.  PRL delayed this change to allow clubs to adapt.  But when it does come in, I'm guessing they will have to lean on signing more Scottish and Welsh players in their teams.

If a player picks up one of the 25 central contracts then they get a £160k salary on top of whatever their club are paying them but no more match fees. Non-centrally contracted players still get the £20/£25k fee (can't remember which it is now).

Moving to France suits some players, others not so much. The money can be very good but the cultural differences, foreign players be used as expendable and the need to learn a new language doesn't suit everyone.

The French league will be an issue the Prem has to contend with but so far it's mainly been a move for those out of the international picture and heading into their final contracts. Jack Willis and Henri Arundell are the notable exceptions but Arundell is looking to return for next summer. Jack Willis has had two knee rebuilds and a club go under in his career, his family are settled in the south of France. Given his personal circumstances I understand his decision to take the cash.

Anyanwu, leaving would be a disappointment as it would be a player leaving before having chance to achieve their potential. That being said he's 24 and only just started pushing for a regular starting berth so not sure he's a huge loss for England but you'd hope he'd have stayed for at least one more contract to try his arm as opposed to be moving to a club as toxic as Montpellier is right now.

So on the back of my earlier posts regarding the overseas players in the Premiership I did find this:-


"That changed in January 2021 as a result of Brexit, and now the league are amending the rules to reflect the UK’s positioning outside of the EU."
"As such, the Premiership have created an interim period for clubs to get their house in order, in which players ‘who are or would have been classified as a Non-Foreign prior to 1 January 2021 will retain such Non-Foreign classification until the end of the 2023-24 season."

So this will affect any player in the summer who hasn't managed to qualify for England or isn't already a UK national or qualifies through ancestry. Previously Europeans under EU law where exempt, South Africans Tongan Fijian & Samoa under Kolpak. Additionally Premiership sides will also need to be fielding 15 EQP as well in match day squads (although not confirmed yet) so likely limits the amount of Scottish and Welsh capped players would be allowed to be selected (assuming if capped they are not EQP)

Welshmushroom wrote:So on the back of my earlier posts regarding the overseas players in the Premiership I did find this:-


"That changed in January 2021 as a result of Brexit, and now the league are amending the rules to reflect the UK’s positioning outside of the EU."
"As such, the Premiership have created an interim period for clubs to get their house in order, in which players ‘who are or would have been classified as a Non-Foreign prior to 1 January 2021 will retain such Non-Foreign classification until the end of the 2023-24 season."

So this will affect any player in the summer who hasn't managed to qualify for England or isn't already a UK national or qualifies through ancestry.  Previously Europeans under EU law where exempt, South Africans Tongan Fijian & Samoa under Kolpak.  Additionally Premiership sides will also need to be fielding 15 EQP as well in match day squads (although not confirmed yet) so likely limits the amount of Scottish and Welsh capped players would be allowed to be selected (assuming if capped they are not EQP)

There's a difference between the funding agreement with the RFU and what is legally enforceable. The foreign player rules were largely binned previously with the RFU paying a fee to sides based on an average number of EQ players.

The new funding agreement with the RFU agrees to move to 15 EQ players in the 23. Legally speaking if the RFU weren't funding this via the new agreement it would be completely unenforceable as it would be argued as restricting trade.

Given the academies are working nicely now that not to much of a problem.

Tuipolotu re-sign for Glasgow Warriors.

We can all breath now!

Jamie Blamire said to be signing for Tigers as the replacement for Montoya (who will be earning more after tax than Tigers are paying him before tax next season at Pau, if you believe the rumours).

Ross Byrne's agent is shopping him around and Tigers are vaguely linked as Pollard is looking at offers from Japan.

Im actually not overly concerned. Very good player but his lineout throwing is a MASSIVE issue. I have a feeling its a problem for Diamond who loves his key skills. And the younger lads coming through the academy are far better in their core skills.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:So on the back of my earlier posts regarding the overseas players in the Premiership I did find this:-


"That changed in January 2021 as a result of Brexit, and now the league are amending the rules to reflect the UK’s positioning outside of the EU."
"As such, the Premiership have created an interim period for clubs to get their house in order, in which players ‘who are or would have been classified as a Non-Foreign prior to 1 January 2021 will retain such Non-Foreign classification until the end of the 2023-24 season."

So this will affect any player in the summer who hasn't managed to qualify for England or isn't already a UK national or qualifies through ancestry.  Previously Europeans under EU law where exempt, South Africans Tongan Fijian & Samoa under Kolpak.  Additionally Premiership sides will also need to be fielding 15 EQP as well in match day squads (although not confirmed yet) so likely limits the amount of Scottish and Welsh capped players would be allowed to be selected (assuming if capped they are not EQP)

There's a difference between the funding agreement with the RFU and what is legally enforceable. The foreign player rules were largely binned previously with the RFU paying a fee to sides based on an average number of EQ players.

The new funding agreement with the RFU agrees to move to 15 EQ players in the 23. Legally speaking if the RFU weren't funding this via the new agreement it would be completely unenforceable as it would be argued as restricting trade.

Given the academies are working nicely now that not to much of a problem.

My understanding is that the Premiership always has had the overseas rule in place for a long time and this one is not the same as the English agreement to field 15 EPS players in a 23.  The reason it was not enforced is due to the EU laws etc where certain nations cannot be classed as overseas.  Brexit changed that however.  Therefore the original Premiership rules come back into place.  I'm assuming as all clubs originally voted for this it would take a unanimous vote to get this changed.  So I dont see a restriction of trade argument possible given the clubs put the original rule in place themselves.

As for the academies producing plenty of players that may well be but what determines the development is all about how good the opposition and players they play with are.  If you have primarily an all academy league that's exactly the standard they will stay at.  Players get better by playing and learning against the best opposition.  It's why so many Tier 2 nations are saying they don't get enough exposure to top level rugby to get better and adapt.  

Not just an English problem though.  French rugby I think isnt a million miles away from essentially collapsing pro rugby everywhere else.  Could end up turning every other league in the world into a development and recruitment tool for the Top14 and Pro D2.  I hope I am wrong on this.

Planet Rugby journo has heard George Ford is moving to Clermont next season. He's one of the players Borthwick has offered an England contract.

https://x.com/jameswhile/status/1856040820882735326

Rugby Fan wrote:Planet Rugby journo has heard George Ford is moving to Clermont next season. He's one of the players Borthwick has offered an England contract.

https://x.com/jameswhile/status/1856040820882735326

Be an odd one. His move to Sale was to be closer to family ahead of him starting a family and also being closer to the business he and his wife own.

Unless Sale have stiffed him on the contract offer hoping a much smaller contract plus the England offer will be enticing enough. Clermont could blow it out the water.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fast-start-to-scotland-career-attracts-premiership-interest-for-tom-jordan/

Fissler claiming Bristol are offering Tom Jordan £300k a year to leave Glasgow.

Good player and would do well at Bristol. Strong defensively at 10 and offers physicality similar to an Owen Farrell level (with a slightly lower tackle height). Not the most creative of 10s and has benefitted from having Tuipulotu outside him.

300K doesnt sound like a lot for a 10 though. Thought even JJ was on 225K at the Dragons before he left for Connacht and he is dire

Sounds more like an Agent at work to me - I'll be surprised if he leaves Glasgow for Bristol. Glasgow genuinely look a good team right now.

Hazel Sapling wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fast-start-to-scotland-career-attracts-premiership-interest-for-tom-jordan/

Fissler claiming Bristol are offering Tom Jordan £300k a year to leave Glasgow.

Good player and would do well at Bristol. Strong defensively at 10 and offers physicality similar to an Owen Farrell level (with a slightly lower tackle height). Not the most creative of 10s and has benefitted from having Tuipulotu outside him.

Rumours around Bristol are that AJ MacGinty is going to do another year and Jordan will come in as his successor. Bristol like playmakers across the back line so Jordan's versatility works well there. A more controlling 10 doesn't seem to slow down their attack either, we AJ MacGinty's tenure.

Tom Jordan has signed for Bristol

Well there you go then - thought he was way better than Hastings - think that is a big loss for Glasgow.

Welshmushroom wrote:Well there you go then - thought he was way better than Hastings - think that is a big loss for Glasgow.

Yes, it definitely is and Bears have got themselves a gem. A premium quality footballer and playmaker who I think will be a Premiership star.

It's normal for Glasgow to lose players a year after a very good season and Jordan isn't a secret any more. I have come to expect it over the years and it's the only way that we can free up space for new talent.

Yep and they have been very good at recent years at identifying and bringing through talent.

I still think Glasgow will be a good side next season so not a major negative. Just surprised as 300K seems quite low. Would have thought given his form the last 18 months he might have been picking up 400-500K a year. Generally Fly Halves are among the biggest earners.

Welshmushroom wrote:Yep and they have been very good at recent years at identifying and bringing through talent.

I still think Glasgow will be a good side next season so not a major negative.  Just surprised as 300K seems quite low.  Would have thought given his form the last 18 months he might have been picking up 400-500K a year.  Generally Fly Halves are among the biggest earners.

The £500k plus mark tends to be reserved for known quantities normally at international level as well. Pollard, M Smith, Ford and MacGinty (though not for his next renewal). The £300 to £400k is about right and puts him in the F Smith and Fergus Burke range.

With the salary cap, £500k+ normally means you are a marquee and Jordan isn't marquee level. Genge or Luatua are likely in that spot.

Ali Price to Montpellier from Edinburgh.

Not a huge surprise he is heading off at 31 years old and with his international career fading a little.

Some rumours Corne Beets is staying at the Bulls in SA and not coming across to Tigers.

George Carlin wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Well there you go then - thought he was way better than Hastings - think that is a big loss for Glasgow.

Yes, it definitely is and Bears have got themselves a gem. A premium quality footballer and playmaker who I think will be a Premiership star.

It's normal for Glasgow to lose players a year after a very good season and Jordan isn't a secret any more. I have come to expect it over the years and it's the only way that we can free up space for new talent.

Surprised he’s getting that much at Bristol tbh. Decent player who can cover a few positions, but not that great. Bristol like to throw a bit of money around but don’t seem to be strengthening their front 5.

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Well there you go then - thought he was way better than Hastings - think that is a big loss for Glasgow.

Yes, it definitely is and Bears have got themselves a gem. A premium quality footballer and playmaker who I think will be a Premiership star.

It's normal for Glasgow to lose players a year after a very good season and Jordan isn't a secret any more. I have come to expect it over the years and it's the only way that we can free up space for new talent.

Surprised he’s getting that much at Bristol tbh. Decent player who can cover a few positions, but not that great. Bristol like to throw a bit of money around but don’t seem to be strengthening their front 5.

I agree that they need forwards more, but you'll be pleasantly surprised by Jordan (who won MoM in his most recent Scotland test). Glasgow are URC champions and Jordan played in every single game of that season (the only player who did). However, was that because he was great or because the whole team was? Let's see.

George Carlin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Well there you go then - thought he was way better than Hastings - think that is a big loss for Glasgow.

Yes, it definitely is and Bears have got themselves a gem. A premium quality footballer and playmaker who I think will be a Premiership star.

It's normal for Glasgow to lose players a year after a very good season and Jordan isn't a secret any more. I have come to expect it over the years and it's the only way that we can free up space for new talent.

Surprised he’s getting that much at Bristol tbh. Decent player who can cover a few positions, but not that great. Bristol like to throw a bit of money around but don’t seem to be strengthening their front 5.

I agree that they need forwards more, but you'll be pleasantly surprised by Jordan (who won MoM in his most recent Scotland test). Glasgow are URC champions and Jordan played in every single game of that season (the only player who did). However, was that because he was great or because the whole team was? Let's see.

Bristol have a good supply of hookers and backrow. The prop stocks are a bit thin but they do have some solid lumps at second row that are mobile enough to do the job.

Flyhalf is a massive must for Bristol their only specialist 10 in the senior squad is MacGinty who's in his mid thirties. Getting Jordan in and a rumoured one year extension for MacGinty really does help them ahead of next season.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Well there you go then - thought he was way better than Hastings - think that is a big loss for Glasgow.

Yes, it definitely is and Bears have got themselves a gem. A premium quality footballer and playmaker who I think will be a Premiership star.

It's normal for Glasgow to lose players a year after a very good season and Jordan isn't a secret any more. I have come to expect it over the years and it's the only way that we can free up space for new talent.

Surprised he’s getting that much at Bristol tbh. Decent player who can cover a few positions, but not that great. Bristol like to throw a bit of money around but don’t seem to be strengthening their front 5.

I agree that they need forwards more, but you'll be pleasantly surprised by Jordan (who won MoM in his most recent Scotland test). Glasgow are URC champions and Jordan played in every single game of that season (the only player who did). However, was that because he was great or because the whole team was? Let's see.

Bristol have a good supply of hookers and backrow. The prop stocks are a bit thin but they do have some solid lumps at second row that are mobile enough to do the job.

Flyhalf is a massive must for Bristol their only specialist 10 in the senior squad is MacGinty who's in his mid thirties. Getting Jordan in and a rumoured one year extension for MacGinty really does help them ahead of next season.

The thing with Jordan is that he is still on an upward learning curve having come later into the pro game.

When he started playing FH for Glasgow, his kicking was not felt to be up to scratch. It has now improved massively and the nuts and bolts of his game are in really good shape now. The one thing you can say he still needs to work on is tackle technique sometimes. He can be a bit Farrelesque at times and has picked up cards at bad moments because of it.

You feel though that he is a player with a very high ceiling. Bristol clearly think so as well.

George Carlin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Well there you go then - thought he was way better than Hastings - think that is a big loss for Glasgow.

Yes, it definitely is and Bears have got themselves a gem. A premium quality footballer and playmaker who I think will be a Premiership star.

It's normal for Glasgow to lose players a year after a very good season and Jordan isn't a secret any more. I have come to expect it over the years and it's the only way that we can free up space for new talent.

Surprised he’s getting that much at Bristol tbh. Decent player who can cover a few positions, but not that great. Bristol like to throw a bit of money around but don’t seem to be strengthening their front 5.

I agree that they need forwards more, but you'll be pleasantly surprised by Jordan (who won MoM in his most recent Scotland test). Glasgow are URC champions and Jordan played in every single game of that season (the only player who did). However, was that because he was great or because the whole team was? Let's see.

I've seen bits of him and thought he was good, not sure if he's superstar money good but kiwi's are usually able to get bigger money. Anscombe and McNicholl in Wales spring to mind.

Plummer is being linked with a move from the Blues to Clermont.

Welshmushroom wrote:Plummer is being linked with a move from the Blues to Clermont.  

Will be seen as a blow in New Zealand where he's been third choice behind the older pair of Barrett and McKenzie. There's been rumours Clermont have approached Ford as well.

Apparently Pedro Rubiolo to Bristol also. That's some power going to their pack!

Will Joseph is off to Gloucester ....

12 Atkinson
13 Joseph