Silly Season Transfer Rumours 23/24

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I need rumours.....and I need them now!

How many games has he played for Exeter?

And as for international rugby...well we cant even decide where Lawrence is to be (12 or 13) and we're still waiting for Will Joseph to show he's as good as his brother....and even at quins theres Northmore, Beard etc....

Geordie wrote:How many games has he played for Exeter?

And as for international rugby...well we cant even decide where Lawrence is to be (12 or 13) and we're still waiting for Will Joseph to show he's as good as his brother....and even at quins theres Northmore, Beard etc....

England is pretty certain on Lawrence at 12. Not sure Borthwick backs him to lead the blitz from 13.

An advantage for Wimbush is that when he's at 13 he's leading the defence which is similar in style to how England are playing. He's played 16 games and at 20 years old that's a good first season. Get him into England A side for this season and look to build him up over the next couple of years.

Will Joseph needs to nail down the 13 shirt at Quins. Beard is being played on the wing in pre season. There's rumours Northmore might get moved to 12, not sure Borthwick is that taken by the idea of Northmore leading the blitz defence but might yet change his mind.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Will Joseph needs to nail down the 13 shirt at Quins. Beard is being played on the wing in pre season. There's rumours Northmore might get moved to 12, not sure Borthwick is that taken by the idea of Northmore leading the blitz defence but might yet change his mind.

I'd be very surprised if that happens. I know the pundits have been pushing "Northmore to 12" but it doesn't seem plausible to me. Northmore has consistently been a much better 13 than 12 and is Quins' first choice when fit. Joseph and Beard are both competing for the 13 shirt (and all three can play on the wing).

In pre-season, Lennox Anyanwu and Hayden Hyde have mostly played 12, and Marcus Smith has referred in interview to having to get used to the differences between Anyanwu's skill set and Esterhuizen's. It looks to me as if Anyanwu is the front runner for the 12 shirt at Quins, and not just because his name is almost as hard to type as Andre's.

From an England perspective, Slade is clearly the man in possession for now, but Borthwick will be looking for his successor. Northmore is clearly in the mix given he toured, and I imagine Borthwick will be watching how he develops under Jason Gilmore's defensive strategy. But a lot may depend on whether and when Marchant comes back from France.

I'd bet on Freeman ending up being England's first choice 13 by the next RWC. He just looks made for the position in the modern game from what I've seen.

If Marchant came back then it'd be brilliant having the two competing with each other here, both able to play wing to a very high standard as well.

Bristol are after a flyhalf with AJ McGinty's contract finishing next summer. He's mid thirties so may sign a reduced contract to see out his playing days but either way Bristol wants a starter. They looked at Marcus Smith but Quins have used the freed up cap from Andre leaving to keep him at the Stoop until 2027.

Ford is going to be out of contract at Sale but they are confident of keeping him.

Pollard is out of contract at Tigers where negotiations are ongoing. Rumours are they've also opened talks with academy graduate Sam Costelow for returning to Leicestershire, Costelow being out of favour with Gatland might fancy a return to the club that helped develop him with several of his former academy teammates first team regulars. Whether this would be alongside Pollard for a season or so as succession planning or part of a replacement push is unknown.

Agustin Creevy signed for Benetton til the end of the season

A usually well informed family member who's a Tigers STH has heard that Montoya might be off at the end of the season. I'm hoping it's wrong, as it would be a hammer blow for Tigers and I felt we might hang onto him given he seems so committed here. I could see it being a simple case of Tigers not being able to compete though.

He's 31-years-old this month. His right leg seems held together by physio tape, hope and will sheer power most the time. He's got a ton of miles on the clock for a hooker with 100 Argentina caps already. This may well be his last big contract. A move to France would maximise wages for those 2-3 years. A move to Japan would likely lengthen his career and the very favourable tax situations for players there means that even the same salary there would represent a big increase in take home pay.

Hookers generally aren't the biggest earners on average. Montoya is right up there with the best in the game though. I'd say that Montyoa, Marx, Mauvaka, Marchand and Sheehan are well clear of the field. Whilst Montoya is brilliant at getting over the gain line. Which all coaches value very highly.

On the heels of losing Wiese it would be brutal.

Losing Montoya would be a hammer blow, he's the club captain and a phenomenal player. It looks like Pollard is heading back over to Japan in the summer so Tigers will have some options in terms of salary cap as the rumoured replacement will be Sam Costelow who will cost about a third of what Polly is on. There could be also be some squad players being moved on to make room for academy players pushing through which might help the cap situation as well.

Depends on who's bidding in France though, if someone like Montpellier with more money than sense start throwing money around then we'll be in trouble. They offered to pay LCD £300k a year AFTER TAX. Generally hookers aren't big earners but top level talent is top level talent.

You can have Jamie Blamire...we'll pay you.

Geordie wrote:You can have Jamie Blamire...we'll pay you.

Teach him how to throw in and he's a quality hooker.

If we are going to have to shop around I'd like us to go after a young tyro with huge upside and back him ala Jibulu or Blake. Keeping Montoya would be preferable though.

Charlie Richardson in the Torygraph running Montoya to Pau. He's usually on the money along with the likes of Foy and Morgan. Sadly in this case.

king_carlos wrote:Charlie Richardson in the Torygraph running Montoya to Pau. He's usually on the money along with the likes of Foy and Morgan. Sadly in this case.

I'd only seen it on RugbyPass and was hoping it wasn't accurate.

Tigers have a number of big name England players coming up for contract renewals and whilst there's no details on the England central contracts there's rumours of players holding out to see what England are going to offer before agreeing a club deal. May hurt our ability to offer competitive deals to some of our other players.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:You can have Jamie Blamire...we'll pay you.

Teach him how to throw in and he's a quality hooker.

If we are going to have to shop around I'd like us to go after a young tyro with huge upside and back him ala Jibulu or Blake. Keeping Montoya would be preferable though.

That ship has sailed now....he's not going to be first choice for much longer with Byrne and Fletcher around.

I'd be amazed If you got Jibulu...Blake maybe...cracking potential.

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:You can have Jamie Blamire...we'll pay you.

Teach him how to throw in and he's a quality hooker.

If we are going to have to shop around I'd like us to go after a young tyro with huge upside and back him ala Jibulu or Blake. Keeping Montoya would be preferable though.

That ship has sailed now....he's not going to be first choice for much longer with Byrne and Fletcher around.

I'd be amazed If you got Jibulu...Blake maybe...cracking potential.

Was more a thinking out loud of the sort of hooker I'd like rather than specific name. We've got a couple of young hookers who are half decent but I'm not sure I see international rugby in their future. Clare is a solid and reliable option but he's into his thirties and doesn't offer much if anything outside the tight exchanges (where to be fair he's reliably solid).

A physical hooker that could offer a carrying game as well as solid work in the tight would be ideal, hence the Jibulu and Blake examples. Not easy to find.

We could roll with the hookers we have and promote internally but that would be a step down in quality. Would free up around £300k+ to spend elsewhere though and with Chessum, Steward, JvP and Watson all put of contract next summer we have talent we need to tie down.

Alex Craig leaving Scarlets and heading to Glasgow as an immediate replacement for Ritchie Gray apparently.

Presume Glasgow are buying out his contract which is up at the end of the season in any case.

Anyone mention the big move Bryan O'Connor to Ulster

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:You can have Jamie Blamire...we'll pay you.

Teach him how to throw in and he's a quality hooker.

If we are going to have to shop around I'd like us to go after a young tyro with huge upside and back him ala Jibulu or Blake. Keeping Montoya would be preferable though.

That ship has sailed now....he's not going to be first choice for much longer with Byrne and Fletcher around.

I'd be amazed If you got Jibulu...Blake maybe...cracking potential.

Was more a thinking out loud of the sort of hooker I'd like rather than specific name. We've got a couple of young hookers who are half decent but I'm not sure I see international rugby in their future. Clare is a solid and reliable option but he's into his thirties and doesn't offer much if anything outside the tight exchanges (where to be fair he's reliably solid).

A physical hooker that could offer a carrying game as well as solid work in the tight would be ideal, hence the Jibulu and Blake examples. Not easy to find.

We could roll with the hookers we have and promote internally but that would be a step down in quality. Would free up around £300k+ to spend elsewhere though and with Chessum, Steward, JvP and Watson all put of contract next summer we have talent we need to tie down.

The big issue I see with Montoya leaving is his elite skills are carrying and the breakdown. Which are two things Tigers can be over reliant on individuals for already. Especially with Wiese gone. Our limited carriers for reliably getting over the gain line are Montoya and Martin with Chessum getting there. The notable breakdown threats are Reffell and Montoya, with a few all rounders who are decent there but not standout such as Hanro. So, Montoya leaving removes a standout in two areas where we lack standouts. Which Wiese leaving already did the same to.

It already looks like Cheika is trying to replace Wiese in the aggregate, so to speak. Trying to get a bit more carrying and breakdown work across the forwards to make up that huge deficit that Wiese left. Chessum is clearly carrying more for instance. I think Clare and Cracknell have been more active there too. Ilione at blindside for some breakdown impact against Falcons. If they then have to do the same with Montoya as well, at what point do you simply end up with a much worse forward pack who are all trying to do a bit more work but not very effectively?

It's a tough puzzle to solve though with Prem clubs not having the draw they once did. As said before this season, I feel that quite a few squads are worse on paper. So it may not be a case of trying to be as good as you were the seasons before. Rather, trying to be better than a lower standard across the league.

king_carlos wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:You can have Jamie Blamire...we'll pay you.

Teach him how to throw in and he's a quality hooker.

If we are going to have to shop around I'd like us to go after a young tyro with huge upside and back him ala Jibulu or Blake. Keeping Montoya would be preferable though.

That ship has sailed now....he's not going to be first choice for much longer with Byrne and Fletcher around.

I'd be amazed If you got Jibulu...Blake maybe...cracking potential.

Was more a thinking out loud of the sort of hooker I'd like rather than specific name. We've got a couple of young hookers who are half decent but I'm not sure I see international rugby in their future. Clare is a solid and reliable option but he's into his thirties and doesn't offer much if anything outside the tight exchanges (where to be fair he's reliably solid).

A physical hooker that could offer a carrying game as well as solid work in the tight would be ideal, hence the Jibulu and Blake examples. Not easy to find.

We could roll with the hookers we have and promote internally but that would be a step down in quality. Would free up around £300k+ to spend elsewhere though and with Chessum, Steward, JvP and Watson all put of contract next summer we have talent we need to tie down.

The big issue I see with Montoya leaving is his elite skills are carrying and the breakdown. Which are two things Tigers can be over reliant on individuals for already. Especially with Wiese gone. Our limited carriers for reliably getting over the gain line are Montoya and Martin with Chessum getting there. The notable breakdown threats are Reffell and Montoya, with a few all rounders who are decent there but not standout such as Hanro. So, Montoya leaving removes a standout in two areas where we lack standouts. Which Wiese leaving already did the same to.

It already looks like Cheika is trying to replace Wiese in the aggregate, so to speak. Trying to get a bit more carrying and breakdown work across the forwards to make up that huge deficit that Wiese left. Chessum is clearly carrying more for instance. I think Clare and Cracknell have been more active there too. Ilione at blindside for some breakdown impact against Falcons. If they then have to do the same with Montoya as well, at what point do you simply end up with a much worse forward pack who are all trying to do a bit more work but not very effectively?

It's a tough puzzle to solve though with Prem clubs not having the draw they once did. As said before this season, I feel that quite a few squads are worse on paper. So it may not be a case of trying to be as good as you were the seasons before. Rather, trying to be better than a lower standard across the league.

I agree but in many cases the potential is actually higher...ie the kids have higher ceilings...in my opinion.

That's the old argument I've been making for a few years now about needing a strong Premier competition to develop players to that ceiling though, Geordie.

Even with my frustrations with the RFU and PRL, the academies are largely excellent in England. The coaching is very good, they identify players well, there's always talent coming through at U18 and U20s. How efficiently that then gets developed is my issue. There should be a strong Championship or a proper A-league that allows talent to keep progressing. That way it's already well developed when it gets to the Prem. Then they keep developing from there in a league that is consistently high quality.

At what point does weaker squads with lots of potential lead us to the Prem being a development comp more than a Premiership...? Replacing players who are excellent now with players who aren't excellent now but might hypothetically be in a few years certainly sounds more like a development comp to me.

Geordie wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:You can have Jamie Blamire...we'll pay you.

Teach him how to throw in and he's a quality hooker.

If we are going to have to shop around I'd like us to go after a young tyro with huge upside and back him ala Jibulu or Blake. Keeping Montoya would be preferable though.

That ship has sailed now....he's not going to be first choice for much longer with Byrne and Fletcher around.

I'd be amazed If you got Jibulu...Blake maybe...cracking potential.

Was more a thinking out loud of the sort of hooker I'd like rather than specific name. We've got a couple of young hookers who are half decent but I'm not sure I see international rugby in their future. Clare is a solid and reliable option but he's into his thirties and doesn't offer much if anything outside the tight exchanges (where to be fair he's reliably solid).

A physical hooker that could offer a carrying game as well as solid work in the tight would be ideal, hence the Jibulu and Blake examples. Not easy to find.

We could roll with the hookers we have and promote internally but that would be a step down in quality. Would free up around £300k+ to spend elsewhere though and with Chessum, Steward, JvP and Watson all put of contract next summer we have talent we need to tie down.

The big issue I see with Montoya leaving is his elite skills are carrying and the breakdown. Which are two things Tigers can be over reliant on individuals for already. Especially with Wiese gone. Our limited carriers for reliably getting over the gain line are Montoya and Martin with Chessum getting there. The notable breakdown threats are Reffell and Montoya, with a few all rounders who are decent there but not standout such as Hanro. So, Montoya leaving removes a standout in two areas where we lack standouts. Which Wiese leaving already did the same to.

It already looks like Cheika is trying to replace Wiese in the aggregate, so to speak. Trying to get a bit more carrying and breakdown work across the forwards to make up that huge deficit that Wiese left. Chessum is clearly carrying more for instance. I think Clare and Cracknell have been more active there too. Ilione at blindside for some breakdown impact against Falcons. If they then have to do the same with Montoya as well, at what point do you simply end up with a much worse forward pack who are all trying to do a bit more work but not very effectively?

It's a tough puzzle to solve though with Prem clubs not having the draw they once did. As said before this season, I feel that quite a few squads are worse on paper. So it may not be a case of trying to be as good as you were the seasons before. Rather, trying to be better than a lower standard across the league.

I agree but in many cases the potential is actually higher...ie the kids have higher ceilings...in my opinion.

In a lot of areas, for instance I'm not that worried about replacing Pollard if he heads to Japan as rumoured. Montoya though is a massive dual threat in the loose as KC says. Trying to replace what he brings directly is incredibly difficult on an international perspective, within England I don't think we can.

In terms of carrying that is replaceable and without to much difficulty. Someone like Seb Blake could offer that for instance and generally this season we've managed to replace Weise in the aggregate as KC mentions. Having Perese in the centres pinballing his way through has definitely helped. We were over reliant on Weise previously and a new attack coach is helping share the load.

Can't get round the lack of breakdown nous in the same way though. Just across the pack we are lacking that ability outside of the opensides Reffell and Ilione. Montoya adds hugely in that area though I am hopeful that Carnduff can bring more of that to the backrow and FTT does add more of that at hooker. Whether we can aggregate it a bit I'm not sure, Perese is pretty good over the ball. Maybe time to bring in a breakdown specialist coach.

Alex Craig will leave Scarlets (probably within a week or 2) and join Glasgow.

Sounds like DVD may be heading off to France next season when his contract at Edinburgh is up.

Montpellier, who binned him off when he was 20, LA Rochelle and Bayonne all interested seemingly.

I think a big thing in the English rules on overseas players. After brexit non of the European rules apply so Kolpak players are overseas as well as all Euro players. I believe next season Premiership clubs are restricted to just 2 overseas players in match day squads.

Given the 5 year new residency rules its going to get harder for them to qualify players to England to bypass this. Hence why I see them targeting more Scottish and Welsh players as I'm guessing uncapped players dont count as overseas if they are UK nationals. But I dont know for sure.

I read that Du Plessis had left Bath for personal reasons. It’s not clear where he’ll end up, likely one of the money franchises (Bulls and Sharks).

Welshmushroom wrote:I think a big thing in the English rules on overseas players.  After brexit non of the European rules apply so Kolpak players are overseas as well as all Euro players.  I believe next season Premiership clubs are restricted to just 2 overseas players in match day squads.

Given the 5 year new residency rules its going to get harder for them to qualify players to England to bypass this.  Hence why I see them targeting more Scottish and Welsh players as I'm guessing uncapped players dont count as overseas if they are UK nationals.  But I dont know for sure.

The two foreign player rule has been in force for many years in the Prem. The Kolpak rules just made it very weak and largely unenforceable, there was a period post Brexit where the rules were maintained even though Kolpak was technically no longer law. The new agreement I think (could be wrong) is that the clubs will have to have 15 EQ players within each match day 23. The clubs are signing up to that as opposed to it being mandated. Still leaves room for overseas talent or other UK signings as well as homegrown talent being capped by Wales or Scotland due to family connections.

mikey_dragon wrote:I read that Du Plessis had left Bath for personal reasons. It’s not clear where he’ll end up, likely one of the money franchises (Bulls and Sharks).

I thought Bath had specifically released him because he wanted to go back to South Africa for family reasons.

Richie Gray goes from Glasgow to Toyota in Japan at the end of November

Probably ends his international career although arguably he is still Scotland's best lock and certainly in the 23

Hazel Sapling wrote:Richie Gray goes from Glasgow to Toyota in Japan at the end of November

Probably ends his international career although arguably he is still Scotland's best lock and certainly in the 23

A bit of a mercenary isn't he?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:Richie Gray goes from Glasgow to Toyota in Japan at the end of November

Probably ends his international career although arguably he is still Scotland's best lock and certainly in the 23

A bit of a mercenary isn't he?

He's 35, a final day playing for Steve Hanson and alongside Beauden Barrett and Aaron Smith isn't something he's likely to turn down.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:Richie Gray goes from Glasgow to Toyota in Japan at the end of November

Probably ends his international career although arguably he is still Scotland's best lock and certainly in the 23

A bit of a mercenary isn't he?

He's 35, a final day playing for Steve Hanson and alongside Beauden Barrett and Aaron Smith isn't something he's likely to turn down.

Good deal all round

Good pay day for Big Ritchie and frees up a wedge of cash at Glasgow

We have got more important players to spend our money on when contracts are up this season. Zander Fagerson and Sione Tuipolotu in particular, who will undoubtedly have some suiters.

Sione Tuipulotu linked with a move to Bath, Quins or Top 14 as he's out of contract in the summer, according to Rugby Pass :O.

Adam Beard linked with a move to Montpellier. He’s a set piece specialist, that might suit them. He comes in for quite a bit of criticism among the Welsh, for being a big man but not doing enough carrying or hitting enough rucks.

Highland Shaun wrote:Sione Tuipulotu linked with a move to Bath, Quins or Top 15 as he's out of contract in the summer, according to Rugby Pass :O.

Don't see him going to England unless it is for marquee-esque money. Bath have Russell on that kind of money with Ojomah, Redpath and Lawrence in the centres so not sure they need it. Same story with Quins who have Smith on a wedge and Anyanwu, Northmore and Joseph in the centres. Maybe Leicester who are planning on a cheaper replacement for Pollard could be a decent fit. Northampton are another that could make sense. Otherwise, France.

The one thing that may help Glasgow in all of this is that he was very keen on getting his brother over to Edinburgh and is talking up his youngest brother to come over to Scotland. It may end up being like the Du Preez brothers at Sale where he decides to stay longer because of the family connection.

Hazel Sapling wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:Sione Tuipulotu linked with a move to Bath, Quins or Top 15 as he's out of contract in the summer, according to Rugby Pass :O.

Don't see him going to England unless it is for marquee-esque money. Bath have Russell on that kind of money with Ojomah, Redpath and Lawrence in the centres so not sure they need it. Same story with Quins who have Smith on a wedge and Anyanwu, Northmore and Joseph in the centres. Maybe Leicester who are planning on a cheaper replacement for Pollard could be a decent fit. Northampton are another that could make sense. Otherwise, France.

The one thing that may help Glasgow in all of this is that he was very keen on getting his brother over to Edinburgh and is talking up his youngest brother to come over to Scotland. It may end up being like the Du Preez brothers at Sale where he decides to stay longer because of the family connection.

Do English clubs go back up to 2 marquee signings again next season?

If so, the Sione becomes a lot more desirable as he would command marquee money and most clubs gave their one place tied up.

The other problem is that other players, Lawrence at Bath for example may also fancy marquee money if it is available, though he might have to move to get that.

A bit of a chess game going on atm and will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Still one marquee for the foreseeable. In fact, I don't believe there's any plan to go back to two at the moment.

You can't be made a marquee if you sign from another club either. So that wouldn't be a route to it for Lawrence. He should be well below marquee wages as well. Even with the Prem's finances.

I think Sione would be below marquee wages too. He's a fantastic 12 but I just don't think cash strapped clubs will pay that highly for an inside centre unless it's one who can near enough guarantee getting over the gain line. Like Estherhuizen at Quins. Whereas Sione is more of an all rounder who is also a strong runner. I just don't think the market will be there currently. Not with clubs cutting back on squad spend.

The clubs with obvious marquees (Sarries - Itoje, Tigers - Pollard, Bath - Finn, Quins - Marcus) will be paying way more for those players than Sione would warrant. Whilst the ones with less obvious marquees would surely look to spend that sort of money in other positions I'd guess. Saints and Sale are strong at centre. Baxter seems committed to bringing through younger players to reduce costs at Chiefs.

I doubt Falcons even have a marquee player. They're probably closer to asking players to only flush after a number 2 to save on water.

Bristol have good centres but as is often the case with their squad they lack depth. I'd spend money elsewhere but Pat Lam does have a tendency of making counter intuitive signings!

I'd guess that France is more likely if he wants a big increase. The SRU are pretty happy to let stars move on and use Glasgow/Edi to get the next gen game time to an extent though. So it may well be that a Prem side wouldn't need to bid that big to be offering more than the SRU at the moment.

Thanks for the update KC

Maybe some of these rumors being put around by Sione's agent then!

He will end up in the top14 if its down to money - english clubs wont compete. For me he is the frontline 12 for Lions. He's at his peak as well. I can see a french club putting down 500-600K to get him. I dont think any back in the Prem aside from fly halves is anywhere near those numbers in pay.

I wonder how many welsh guys will head back to wales after this season.

For me Hennessey would be my absolute top signing if I was the Ospreys, Cardiff or Dragons. Cardiff I think are looking at Hawkins so that probably would rule them out. Scarlets dont need centres at the moment.

If Dai has any sense I would make a big play for him from Bath. I'd try to twin him with that Harlequins Welsh centre (Bradley I think). I just think the way the URC is now you have to have a big 12 and either another powerful 13 or an extremely quick one.

BigGee wrote:Thanks for the update KC

Maybe some of these rumors being put around by Sione's agent then!

Pretty much every rumour about a player moving is put around by their agent at this stage of the season - and unless there’s a very obvious fit it’s usually just posturing ahead of contract negotiations.

There was a story on Facebook yesterday (I think from Rugbydump) that Quins were interested in in Raffi Quirke and Solomone Kata. While that makes sense on the surface - they are players who would fit Quins’ style of play and would replace high profile leavers - it doesn’t to my mind tally with where Quins are this season.

Will Porter looks to have overtaken Care as the preferred 9. Given how difficult it has been to find a good backup to DC, it doesn’t seem sensible to gamble on a high profile (and injury prone) player who would want to be the starter and risk losing a player who’s become an integral part of the team.

Likewise, Quins have spent the past two years prepping Lennox Anyanwu to replace Andre Esterhuizen and, while he’s a different type of player, the early signs are that he is taking to the role really well. If Kata would accept a squad role, he would be a good complement - but I doubt that’s what he’s after.

Poorfour wrote:

BigGee wrote:Thanks for the update KC

Maybe some of these rumors being put around by Sione's agent then!

Pretty much every rumour about a player moving is put around by their agent at this stage of the season - and unless there’s a very obvious fit it’s usually just posturing ahead of contract negotiations.

There was a story on Facebook yesterday (I think from Rugbydump) that Quins were interested in in Raffi Quirke and Solomone Kata. While that makes sense on the surface - they are players who would fit Quins’ style of play and would replace high profile leavers - it doesn’t to my mind tally with where Quins are this season.

Will Porter looks to have overtaken Care as the preferred 9. Given how difficult it has been to find a good backup to DC, it doesn’t seem sensible to gamble on a high profile (and injury prone) player who would want to be the starter and risk losing a player who’s become an integral part of the team.

Likewise, Quins have spent the past two years prepping Lennox Anyanwu to replace Andre Esterhuizen and, while he’s a different type of player, the early signs are that he is taking to the role really well. If Kata would accept a squad role, he would be a good complement - but I doubt that’s what he’s after.

You need more than one senior 9 in the squad though and competition is a good thing. Lucas Friday is a very bright young talent but he isn't ready yet. Raffi Quirke isn't going to walk into a starting job because there really isn't any of those going in the Prem (unless Chiefs for once invest in their halfbacks). Getting away from Sale where Warr and Thomas are both of a similar age and vying for a spot to where it's just him Vs Porter wouldn't be a bad move and would give Quins options. Bath are also interested which would see him as the nominated successor to Spencer but still unlikely to be in a starting jersey unless he can force his way past. Could be Raffi wants a club with a running style of rugby that he feels suits him more than the pragmatic style at Sale.

Kata probably won't be a starter by the time he comes back from his ban with Leicester. Kelly suits our backline more as does Woodward who's looked entirely at home at 12 in his two outings at Prem level so far. Given his age I'd imagine Kata is looking at salary and if Quins are happy to give him a bump in that area he'll happily rotate or be their impact option at 12. Would work for a year or two until Bradley is really hitting the straps and challenging Anyanwu.

Welshmushroom wrote:He will end up in the top14 if its down to money - english clubs wont compete.  For me he is the frontline 12 for Lions.  He's at his peak as well.   I can see a french club putting down 500-600K to get him.  I dont think any back in the Prem aside from fly halves is anywhere near those numbers in pay.  

I'd say that's right. The last published salary cap report (for the season before last) had a couple of centres on more than £400k. Now Manu has left the league that could be one less. To be honest he doesn't feel like a Bath signing. They've got centres even if Lawrence were to go. Lawrence leaving would be a blow but with Butt and Hennessey both coming through at 13 and then Redpath and Ojomoh at 13 they aren't short. Harris could slot into the midfield from 15 as well.

Whether Quins would like a mentor for their young 12s would be a different matter. Even then he'd earn a lot more in France as you say. It's dependent on whether moving to France works for him and his family as there's learning a new language and cultural differences they might not want to take on.

Probably not the right place to put this, but Graham Rowntree has left Munster after 3 years, report says by mutual agreement. Munster have lost their last three games, are they Man U fans I wonder, they are in a similar position in the URC.

That feels harsh on Wig. They won the URC in his first season in charge. Munster also topped the regular season table last year. Admittedly, the format there can be contrived, heavy rotation is rife in the regular season and 4 teams finished on 13 wins with Munster topping the table through BPs. Still topped the table though. Then 3 losses and he's gone. I wonder if there's more under the surface there that will come out in the wash?

Wig's a very well regarded forwards coach who won't be short of work to be fair.

This is mad, I know Munster are having yet another slow start but it's the end of the season that counts and the end of his seasons speak for themselves. Wow.

Felix Jones......he's coming home, he's coming home, he's coming. Jones is coming home.

Well who knows but it wouldn't be the worst move for him

Pete330v2 wrote:This is mad, I know Munster are having yet another slow start but it's the end of the season that counts and the end of his seasons speak for themselves. Wow.

Felix Jones......he's coming home, he's coming home, he's coming. Jones is coming home.

Well who knows but it wouldn't be the worst move for him

With the Lions for the summer and head coach at Munster. He's got a contract with England though so they'd need to be a little bit of compensation if he's to join immediately.

Pete330v2 wrote:This is mad, I know Munster are having yet another slow start but it's the end of the season that counts and the end of his seasons speak for themselves. Wow.

Felix Jones......he's coming home, he's coming home, he's coming. Jones is coming home.

Well who knows but it wouldn't be the worst move for him

With Jones being held to his 12 month notice period, it'd either be a buyout for the IRFU or waiting until next season. I'd honestly just presumed that Jones would join Faz Snr for the Lions tour, then join the Ireland setup to reunite with Aled Walters. He could slot into a very similar role to the one he did with the Boks where he worked across attack and defence, whilst doing a lot of analysis work. Aiding Goodman on attack now that Catt has left and working alongside Easterby evolving the defence. Plus, he's got family in Ireland he apparently wants to be nearer. That route just seemed to make sense to me.

Poorfour wrote:

Likewise, Quins have spent the past two years prepping Lennox Anyanwu to replace Andre Esterhuizen and, while he’s a different type of player, the early signs are that he is taking to the role really well. If Kata would accept a squad role, he would be a good complement - but I doubt that’s what he’s after.

Lennox is reportedly off to Montpellier this summer. So Harlequins will need to find another replacement at 12 now.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Probably not the right place to put this, but Graham Rowntree has left Munster after 3 years, report says by mutual agreement. Munster have lost their last three games, are they Man U fans I wonder, they are in a similar position in the URC.

Bit surprised all round by this mostly because I actually think Munster will need to overhaul soon because I can't see a lot of those senior guys carrying on much longer.

Kilcoyne, Archer, Ryan, O'Mahony, Murray must all be close to the end now. On top of that lot they have a ton of guys in their 30's so you would imagine within the next 2-3 seasons they will need to reset.

I thought Rowntree has done a excellent job for them - winning the year before last was a major achievement. I dont think their current squad and form does warrant a top 4 expectation.

I can only imagine he probably knows a rebuild is needed and maybe didn't want the challenge of that. Still strange call to let him go.......this might implode their entire season.

Welshmushroom wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Probably not the right place to put this, but Graham Rowntree has left Munster after 3 years, report says by mutual agreement. Munster have lost their last three games, are they Man U fans I wonder, they are in a similar position in the URC.

Bit surprised all round by this mostly because I actually think Munster will need to overhaul soon because I can't see a lot of those senior guys carrying on much longer.  

Kilcoyne, Archer, Ryan, O'Mahony, Murray must all be close to the end now.  On top of that lot they have a ton of guys in their 30's so you would imagine within the next 2-3 seasons they will need to reset.

I thought Rowntree has done a excellent job for them - winning the year before last was a major achievement.  I dont think their current squad and form does warrant a top 4 expectation.  

I can only imagine he probably knows a rebuild is needed and maybe didn't want the challenge of that.  Still strange call to let him go.......this might implode their entire season.  

The recruitment in the summer was pretty underwhelming with Frisch, RG Snyman and Carberry out the door. Billy Burns and Tom Farrell in. Feels like some money was saved there. How happy was Rowntree with that so we think? Was he up for the rebuild but the Munster board not keen on moving things along and providing the funds for it? Who knows until someone writes an autobiography.

I’ve seen most say that pushing Rowntree out is a mistake. He always seemed like a good coach. Munster have an injury crises and need to get replacements for some of their older players. If dragons don’t get Rowntree then it would be good for another Welsh team to get him…