Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[ralphjohn69]

First topic message reminder :

It's not logic. Most pot 4 teams are no worse than Rangers. If Rangers were the worst ever pot 4 team last year, what makes them any better now?

Because instead of playing another Pot 3 team they will be playing a Pot 4 team, who will probably be worse than a Pot 3 team so they have a better chance of getting 3rd, although it's obviously not guaranteed. You really don't help yourself when you post about football....

[McLaren]

I've campaigned in dozens of elections for UKIP/Brexit Party/Reform/Some independents across England and Wales.

I wondered what incels were up to these days.

[Duty281]

I've campaigned in dozens of elections for UKIP/Brexit Party/Reform/Some independents across England and Wales.

I wondered what incels were up to these days.

Difficult to be an incel when you're gay.

[the-goon]

I've campaigned in dozens of elections for UKIP/Brexit Party/Reform/Some independents across England and Wales.

I wondered what incels were up to these days.

Difficult to be an incel when you're gay.

So it's true, gays will shag anything?

[navyblueshorts]

Byline times? To use "yoof vernacular" Seriously?

I'm not defending Reform, I would never vote for them, but I didn't see the same scrutiny in the Green party which had 20 candidates who are basically  standing on an Islamic pro Palestinian  ticket, I haven't seen the Green party expel their current councillor who was actually convicted of organising harassment against a local Rabbi as well as being an outspoken anti Semite, same goes for Workers Party.

My point is that British politics is in a hole, and no party seems worthy of any of our votes.

Yeah. You know, actual journalism? The sort of stuff not funded by, and in hock to, the whims of Rothmere, Murdoch, the Barclays etc etc.

Don't disagree re. British politics being in a deep hole.

[McLaren]

I've campaigned in dozens of elections for UKIP/Brexit Party/Reform/Some independents across England and Wales.

I wondered what incels were up to these days.

Difficult to be an incel when you're gay.

But apparently not impossible.

[McLaren]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

[Pal Joey]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

You'll be on the right side of history, I'm guessing.

Something I'm always thinking about when looking at the global geopolitics situation worldwide:

Regarding the political cycles of Left-Right-Left governments in various countries at any given time - like now - we see a distinct swing or drift to the right as has already happened just about everywhere in Europe, save for Spain, Sweden? and a few central European countries. France is also probably heading that way too.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this Election which will see the UK head towards the Left again. That's sort of going against the grain it seems (cf. Europe and the US) but of course this will be the result of the particular situation you and your country are in right now... and it just so happens that it also marks the end of a long Tory spell in government.

So, I'm wondering if the inevitable outcome over the next few days is a good thing or a bad thing? Are you ahead of the global political cycle (leading) or is it just the timing of this election (given the 5 year terms but also the recent changes of leadership) which means the UK is slightly delayed (or trailing) in the greater political world shenanigans?

Anyway, happy voting... and I hope everyone handles the change as well as they can.

[navyblueshorts]

...So, I'm wondering if the inevitable outcome over the next few days is a good thing or a bad thing?...

Regardless of anything else, it'll be a good thing because the Tories really are both that incompetent and God-awful.

[Pal Joey]

...So, I'm wondering if the inevitable outcome over the next few days is a good thing or a bad thing?...

Regardless of anything else, it'll be a good thing because the Tories really are both that incompetent and God-awful.

True.

I have a strong feeling that incompetence and being God-awful is not exclusive to one side though. Seems to be the defining characteristic for all parties these days.

Of course, we'll have to wait and see how they go but Labour won't fix all the problems overnight and changing governments can be a very disruptive and costly process.

It has to be done though - simply to try and clear the air and hopefully try new approaches with new policies to tackle the challenges. No guarantees for success though.

[super_realist]

Byline times? To use "yoof vernacular" Seriously?

I'm not defending Reform, I would never vote for them, but I didn't see the same scrutiny in the Green party which had 20 candidates who are basically  standing on an Islamic pro Palestinian  ticket, I haven't seen the Green party expel their current councillor who was actually convicted of organising harassment against a local Rabbi as well as being an outspoken anti Semite, same goes for Workers Party.

My point is that British politics is in a hole, and no party seems worthy of any of our votes.

Yeah. You know, actual journalism? The sort of stuff not funded by, and in hock to, the whims of Rothmere, Murdoch, the Barclays etc etc.

Don't disagree re. British politics being in a deep hole.

Actual journalism? Yeah, Jonathan Lis, Bonnie Greer and Caolan Robertson, serious journalists. Its like getting your news from GB News. It comes with an agenda.

[super_realist]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

Surprised you're not voting Green Mac.

[the-goon]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

You'll be on the right side of history, I'm guessing.

Something I'm always thinking about when looking at the global geopolitics situation worldwide:

Regarding the political cycles of Left-Right-Left governments in various countries at any given time - like now - we see a distinct swing or drift to the right as has already happened just about everywhere in Europe, save for Spain, Sweden? and a few central European countries. France is also probably heading that way too.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this Election which will see the UK head towards the Left again. That's sort of going against the grain it seems (cf. Europe and the US) but of course this will be the result of the particular situation you and your country are in right now... and it just so happens that it also marks the end of a long Tory spell in government.

So, I'm wondering if the inevitable outcome over the next few days is a good thing or a bad thing? Are you ahead of the global political cycle (leading) or is it just the timing of this election (given the 5 year terms but also the recent changes of leadership) which means the UK is slightly delayed (or trailing) in the greater political world shenanigans?

Anyway, happy voting... and I hope everyone handles the change as well as they can.

The tories and Starmer's new labour are indistinguishable from each other. There will be no change. If you think otherwise, you will be disappointed.

I mean both support high taxes, mass immigration, net zero and welfare spending. Anything else is fluff and rhetoric.

The tories have been blocking a true right wing movement from developing in the UK, but that is now over. They are being destroyed thankfully.

Hopefully reform can out perform the polls, and position themselves as the main opposition in 2029.

[super_realist]

It will be the same, but with even worse immigration and a mad drive towards net zero.

[JAS]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

Holding my nose and voting Lib Dem. I’m in a Tory area where the old Tory seat is splitting into 2. The sitting MP is taking the “safer” other seat. Our constituency the Lib Dem’s are easily the main challengers. It MUCH more anti Tory than pro Lib Dem but it is what it is. Country wide the Tories need an absolutely humiliating humping.
This election really is as simple as A.B.C.

[JAS]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

You'll be on the right side of history, I'm guessing.

Something I'm always thinking about when looking at the global geopolitics situation worldwide:

Regarding the political cycles of Left-Right-Left governments in various countries at any given time - like now - we see a distinct swing or drift to the right as has already happened just about everywhere in Europe, save for Spain, Sweden? and a few central European countries. France is also probably heading that way too.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this Election which will see the UK head towards the Left again. That's sort of going against the grain it seems (cf. Europe and the US) but of course this will be the result of the particular situation you and your country are in right now... and it just so happens that it also marks the end of a long Tory spell in government.

So, I'm wondering if the inevitable outcome over the next few days is a good thing or a bad thing? Are you ahead of the global political cycle (leading) or is it just the timing of this election (given the 5 year terms but also the recent changes of leadership) which means the UK is slightly delayed (or trailing) in the greater political world shenanigans?

Anyway, happy voting... and I hope everyone handles the change as well as they can.

The tories and Starmer's new labour are indistinguishable from each other. There will be no change. If you think otherwise, you will be disappointed.

I mean both support high taxes, mass immigration, net zero and welfare spending. Anything else is fluff and rhetoric.

The tories have been blocking a true right wing movement from developing in the UK, but that is now over. They are being destroyed thankfully.

Hopefully reform can out perform the polls, and position themselves as the main opposition in 2029.

Except perhaps on consistency and competence. When was the last time the Labour Party ousted a sitting Labour Prime Minister from office?? Never!! Yes Labour has its own “broad church accommodation of views” issues but NEVER in history have they trivialised being in office with the kind of feral mentalness that these sociopaths have demonstrated for the past few years so NO they are NOT the same and THAT will be the prime difference that is driving the desire for change.

[super_realist]

There is no evidence to suggest that Labour will be any more competent JAS, in any event they've only ever had 6 different PM's so it's hardly surprising they haven't ousted one.
To use the example of what they will do about immigration for example their tactics are "smash the gangs" and "get round the table". Those are just sound bites and no substance.

UK government and competence is an oxymoron in regards to all parties.

[the-goon]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

You'll be on the right side of history, I'm guessing.

Something I'm always thinking about when looking at the global geopolitics situation worldwide:

Regarding the political cycles of Left-Right-Left governments in various countries at any given time - like now - we see a distinct swing or drift to the right as has already happened just about everywhere in Europe, save for Spain, Sweden? and a few central European countries. France is also probably heading that way too.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this Election which will see the UK head towards the Left again. That's sort of going against the grain it seems (cf. Europe and the US) but of course this will be the result of the particular situation you and your country are in right now... and it just so happens that it also marks the end of a long Tory spell in government.

So, I'm wondering if the inevitable outcome over the next few days is a good thing or a bad thing? Are you ahead of the global political cycle (leading) or is it just the timing of this election (given the 5 year terms but also the recent changes of leadership) which means the UK is slightly delayed (or trailing) in the greater political world shenanigans?

Anyway, happy voting... and I hope everyone handles the change as well as they can.

The tories and Starmer's new labour are indistinguishable from each other. There will be no change. If you think otherwise, you will be disappointed.

I mean both support high taxes, mass immigration, net zero and welfare spending. Anything else is fluff and rhetoric.

The tories have been blocking a true right wing movement from developing in the UK, but that is now over. They are being destroyed thankfully.

Hopefully reform can out perform the polls, and position themselves as the main opposition in 2029.

Except perhaps on consistency and competence. When was the last time the Labour Party ousted a sitting Labour Prime Minister from office?? Never!! Yes Labour has its own “broad church accommodation of views” issues but NEVER in history have they trivialised being in office with the kind of feral mentalness that these sociopaths have demonstrated for the past few years so NO they are NOT the same and THAT will be the prime difference that is driving the desire for change.

So fluff and rhetoric.

The tories say some right wing things, but do new labour. They thought they would be in power of ever after labour's collapse in 2019, so they got greedy and lazy in hiding their corruption.
Now labour will say and do new labour things. That's the change. Will they be as corrupt? Will they have the same level of media scrutiny? Will their hardcore support even care when they are caught? We shall see.

But how the country is run, philosophically and functionally will remain the same. The managed decline will continue, it may be quicker or slower, but that's it.

[Pal Joey]

It will be the same, but with even worse immigration and a mad drive towards net zero.

That's pretty much what's happened here in the last 2 years.

Immigration is surging to new record high levels, more than a few boats sneaking through again after 10 years of successful border control policy. They even gave a group of Indonesians a motor boat with enough fuel in the tank to turn back home... after burning their wonky Indonesian craft at sea. The Visa system has also been fiddled with; creating new loopholes for some to exploit. Hundreds of illegal immigrants (about 50 of them violent offenders, murderers) have been released due to a 'legal anomaly' and are back on the streets... and the authorities have no clue where they are until another offence is committed and they get re-arrested.

As for net zero, that pursuit has also gone off the scale as energy prices also rise to record levels. It's worse for us given all of our massive amounts of resources. Horrific destruction of some pristine landscape with even more projects planned. Thankfully the renewable infrastructure roll out (on land and sea) is not going as fast as planned and investors are now shying away from touching it. The Greens are silent as wildlife habitat is destroyed and projects approved with no consultation (it's like Russia in the 30s) and let's not even get into the amount of productive agricultural land ear-marked for new transmission lines. We only need 28,000 km of new wires and our farmers are now copying the French... with more protests to come.

So it's all kind of linked: cost of living, immigration, chasing 'net zero', more crime, higher wages, lower productivity, inflation, political rorts and corruption. Barely a pulse with our 0.1% growth rate. Credit rating at risk. Some decent sized cracks are now starting to appear and there are indications things will get even worse before they get better. A renegade Senator defection and another embarrassing protest today atop Parliament House again. You can safely say this Government has created the perfect conditions for all of these things to thrive whilst encouraging social unrest (on a level never seen before in this country) at the same time.

I hope Starmer has a proper rational plan for improving the country's best economic and security interests. That's so important. That, then, will help ease directly related social issues. It's not easy I know (it takes balls) but certain small practical steps are needed (you'll know better exactly what those steps are) and not some new pathway guided by fast-failing ideological pipe dreams (to appease the UN and the EU) as that will almost certainly lead to an exacerbation of all the existing problems the others have left you... and a new definition of 'disaster'.

[Duty281]

Who's everyone voting for?

My area is safe labour, so voting for them.

You'll be on the right side of history, I'm guessing.

Something I'm always thinking about when looking at the global geopolitics situation worldwide:

Regarding the political cycles of Left-Right-Left governments in various countries at any given time - like now - we see a distinct swing or drift to the right as has already happened just about everywhere in Europe, save for Spain, Sweden? and a few central European countries. France is also probably heading that way too.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this Election which will see the UK head towards the Left again. That's sort of going against the grain it seems (cf. Europe and the US) but of course this will be the result of the particular situation you and your country are in right now... and it just so happens that it also marks the end of a long Tory spell in government.

So, I'm wondering if the inevitable outcome over the next few days is a good thing or a bad thing? Are you ahead of the global political cycle (leading) or is it just the timing of this election (given the 5 year terms but also the recent changes of leadership) which means the UK is slightly delayed (or trailing) in the greater political world shenanigans?

Anyway, happy voting... and I hope everyone handles the change as well as they can.

The tories and Starmer's new labour are indistinguishable from each other. There will be no change. If you think otherwise, you will be disappointed.

I mean both support high taxes, mass immigration, net zero and welfare spending. Anything else is fluff and rhetoric.

The tories have been blocking a true right wing movement from developing in the UK, but that is now over. They are being destroyed thankfully.

Hopefully reform can out perform the polls, and position themselves as the main opposition in 2029.

Except perhaps on consistency and competence. When was the last time the Labour Party ousted a sitting Labour Prime Minister from office?? Never!! Yes Labour has its own “broad church accommodation of views” issues but NEVER in history have they trivialised being in office with the kind of feral mentalness that these sociopaths have demonstrated for the past few years so NO they are NOT the same and THAT will be the prime difference that is driving the desire for change.

That's some cute naivety. If you think Labour wouldn't be ruthless in office if the situation called for it, you're mistaken. How do you think Starmer held on to the Labour leadership against the Corbynite left?

Goon is correct when he says there will be virtually no change. I get people being pleased with the Tories being ushered out, but they're being replaced by something virtually identical.

[super_realist]

Here's a question.
In order to make Britain a place worth living in, by what % do people think Labour would have to improve every aspect of the country by?
I'm thinking the country generally needs a 20% improvement across the board. I can't see anyone capable of that.

[JAS]

There is no evidence to suggest that Labour will be any more competent JAS, in any event they've only ever had 6 different  PM's so it's hardly surprising they haven't ousted one.
To use the example of what they will do about immigration for example their tactics are "smash the gangs" and "get round the table". Those are just sound bites and no substance.

UK government and competence is an oxymoron in regards to all parties.

That's a bit closed minded and disingenuous (although true) saying there is no evidence Labour will be any more competent. That would be the same as saying to Neil Armstrong in early 1969..."there is no evidence that you'll have a successful moon mission and survive to tell the tale"

The point I'm trying to make is that the main reason the Tories have been so incompetent as a government is that they have been ideologically self obsessed. Never in history have there been so many no confidence votes on sitting prime ministers by their own side and it's not just that we've had 5 PMs in the last 8 Years
How many Ministers have churned through Cabinet in the past 9 years?
How many Home Secretaries have there been? Ergo has anyone been in the hot seat long enough to even devise a strategy for immigration far less see one through - No so all the current incumbent can do is cobble together support for a half baked scheme that a predecessor drafted on the back of a fag packet that breaks international law and makes less than a 1% dent in the overall issue...before they get punted and somebody else comes along to pick up the poison chalice for 5 minutes and the whole pass the parcel comedy gets repeated.
I could go through every Major government department and quote items all with the same theme, Ministers never in post long enough to be effective and of course if you cycle through ministerial appointments at that cadence the other thing you open yourself up to (just out of probability due to the numbers) is getting a rogue minister with no clue driving a coach and horses through established practice (I give you Kamiquasi Kwarteng). THAT is what I mean by (in)consistency and (in)competence. That's not just a low bar, the bar is actually under effin ground. Labour ministers by turning up and holding a ministerial post for more than 5 minutes will be more competent than this shower have been

[JAS]

Here's a question.
In order to make Britain a place worth living in, by what % do people think Labour would have to improve every aspect of the country by?
I'm thinking the country generally needs a 20% improvement across the board. I can't see anyone capable of that.

Anything in positive numbers would be a start!! We ARE in decline.

However they WILL have to go some to get another bite at the cherry in 5 years time.

It should NOT be the main judged characteristic but IF they can get 2.5 - 3% GDP growth going then that would make a discernible difference. Do I think they'll be able to do that, never say never but highly unlikely. They're being dealt an absolute stinker of a hand, probably worse than what the coalition had to pick up in 2010, perhaps on a par (in terms of difficulty not in nature) that the Tories picked up in 1979.

[super_realist]

There is no evidence to suggest that Labour will be any more competent JAS, in any event they've only ever had 6 different  PM's so it's hardly surprising they haven't ousted one.
To use the example of what they will do about immigration for example their tactics are "smash the gangs" and "get round the table". Those are just sound bites and no substance.

UK government and competence is an oxymoron in regards to all parties.

That's a bit closed minded and disingenuous (although true) saying there is no evidence Labour will be any more competent. That would be the same as saying to Neil Armstrong in early 1969..."there is no evidence that you'll have a successful moon mission and survive to tell the tale"

The point I'm trying to make is that the main reason the Tories have been so incompetent as a government is that they have been ideologically self obsessed. Never in history have there been so many no confidence votes on sitting prime ministers by their own side and it's not just that we've had 5 PMs in the last 8 Years
How many Ministers have churned through Cabinet in the past 9 years?
How many Home Secretaries have there been? Ergo has anyone been in the hot seat long enough to even devise a strategy for immigration far less see one through - No so all the current incumbent can do is cobble together support for a half baked scheme that a predecessor drafted on the back of a fag packet that breaks international law and makes less than a 1% dent in the overall issue...before they get punted and somebody else comes along to pick up the poison chalice for 5 minutes and the whole pass the parcel comedy gets repeated.
I could go through every Major government department and quote items all with the same theme, Ministers never in post long enough to be effective and of course if you cycle through ministerial appointments at that cadence the other thing you open yourself up to (just out of probability due to the numbers) is getting a rogue minister with no clue driving a coach and horses through established practice (I give you Kamiquasi Kwarteng). THAT is what I mean by (in)consistency and (in)competence. That's not just a low bar, the bar is actually under effin ground. Labour ministers by turning up and holding a ministerial post for more than 5 minutes will be more competent than this shower have been

Who wouldn't you have in a Labour Cabinet Jas? David Lammy seems to have been kept out of view on the campaign trail, and he made an absolute t1t of himself on Nick Ferrari saying a trans woman can have/grow a cervix.
I think it would a massive step forward if any party simply ignored all this trans ideology nonsense and stuck to science.

I'm not expecting professional northerner Unnnnjeeela  Raaaaaaaynurrr to get a very prominent position.
Don't mind Streeting and even Ashworth but Milliband, Lammy, Thornherry etc seem pretty dreadful.

[Soul Requiem]

How many Home Secretaries have there been?

Since the Tories came into power in 2010 there have been 8 different Home Secretaries. During the Labour years of 1997 to 2010 there were 6, so no real discernible difference.

[Eyetoldyouso]

I don't really care who wins but will someone please sort out the housing and social care crises.

I've long held the view that there needs to be a Royal Commission established to look at & sort out the NHS. Give it 6 months to sort out its terms of reference, representatives of each political party who polled over say 15% plus SNP & Plaid Cymru, a few of the great and the good and chaired by a Supreme Court Judge, and give it 2-3 years to report. We can't just pour more money into the NHS.

[JAS]

There is no evidence to suggest that Labour will be any more competent JAS, in any event they've only ever had 6 different  PM's so it's hardly surprising they haven't ousted one.
To use the example of what they will do about immigration for example their tactics are "smash the gangs" and "get round the table". Those are just sound bites and no substance.

UK government and competence is an oxymoron in regards to all parties.

That's a bit closed minded and disingenuous (although true) saying there is no evidence Labour will be any more competent. That would be the same as saying to Neil Armstrong in early 1969..."there is no evidence that you'll have a successful moon mission and survive to tell the tale"

The point I'm trying to make is that the main reason the Tories have been so incompetent as a government is that they have been ideologically self obsessed. Never in history have there been so many no confidence votes on sitting prime ministers by their own side and it's not just that we've had 5 PMs in the last 8 Years
How many Ministers have churned through Cabinet in the past 9 years?
How many Home Secretaries have there been? Ergo has anyone been in the hot seat long enough to even devise a strategy for immigration far less see one through - No so all the current incumbent can do is cobble together support for a half baked scheme that a predecessor drafted on the back of a fag packet that breaks international law and makes less than a 1% dent in the overall issue...before they get punted and somebody else comes along to pick up the poison chalice for 5 minutes and the whole pass the parcel comedy gets repeated.
I could go through every Major government department and quote items all with the same theme, Ministers never in post long enough to be effective and of course if you cycle through ministerial appointments at that cadence the other thing you open yourself up to (just out of probability due to the numbers) is getting a rogue minister with no clue driving a coach and horses through established practice (I give you Kamiquasi Kwarteng). THAT is what I mean by (in)consistency and (in)competence. That's not just a low bar, the bar is actually under effin ground. Labour ministers by turning up and holding a ministerial post for more than 5 minutes will be more competent than this shower have been

Who wouldn't you have in a Labour Cabinet Jas? David Lammy seems to have been kept out of view on the campaign trail, and he made an absolute t1t of himself on Nick Ferrari saying a trans woman can have/grow a cervix.
I think it would a massive step forward if any party simply ignored all this trans ideology nonsense and stuck to science.

I'm not expecting professional northerner Unnnnjeeela  Raaaaaaaynurrr to get a very prominent position.
Don't mind Streeting and even Ashworth but Milliband, Lammy, Thornherry etc seem pretty dreadful.

I really don’t have that much enthusiasm for any of them, I suspect Reeves, Cooper & Streeting will be the ones that will be able to at least look effective, maybe Phillipson as well at education. Of those, Streeting I think will have highest profile. I hope they keep hiding Lammy, Thornbury etc. I actually quite like Rayner but I think she will be gaff prone.

[super_realist]

I like Streeting because he doesn't worship the NHS and wants to reform it.
I was back in the UK a month ago, and infrastructure wise it is the third world. The roads are an abomination and the place is filthy .
In Norway I pay road tolls, which equate to about £60 a month, and if I see a pothole it makes you do a double take.

[JAS]

How many Home Secretaries have there been?

Since the Tories came into power in 2010 there have been 8 different Home Secretaries. During the Labour years of 1997 to 2010 there were 6, so no real discernible difference.

That maybe true over the whole 13/14 year periods in office I.e. averaging just over 2 years each per Lab Home Secs and about 1.8 for Cons ones BUT Take Theresa Mays 6 year tenure off and the Conservative Home Sec term in office drops like a stone. Christ they’ve had 6 this Parliament, although to be fair that’s counting ministerial code breaking Suella twice.

[super_realist]

Clutching at straws there JAS.  Jack Straw was over 4 years and Blunkett over 3, so same goes for Labour.

Basically the entire labour schtick seems to be couched around "vote for us, we're not the Tory Party"

Fair enough that's basically always the case after a three term government has run out of f*cks to give, but you'd think given their lead they might venture some actual policy for a change.

[navyblueshorts]

Byline times? To use "yoof vernacular" Seriously?

I'm not defending Reform, I would never vote for them, but I didn't see the same scrutiny in the Green party which had 20 candidates who are basically  standing on an Islamic pro Palestinian  ticket, I haven't seen the Green party expel their current councillor who was actually convicted of organising harassment against a local Rabbi as well as being an outspoken anti Semite, same goes for Workers Party.

My point is that British politics is in a hole, and no party seems worthy of any of our votes.

Yeah. You know, actual journalism? The sort of stuff not funded by, and in hock to, the whims of Rothmere, Murdoch, the Barclays etc etc.

Don't disagree re. British politics being in a deep hole.

Actual journalism? Yeah, Jonathan Lis, Bonnie Greer and Caolan Robertson, serious journalists. Its like getting your news from GB News. It comes with an agenda.

Really? That's your comeback? Of course, you must be right because you can find some who write op eds, and therefore all their staff aren't professional journalists. Never mind. You stick to your 'sources' - you'll be more comfortable that way. Have you read Winstanley's book yet?

[super_realist]

That was my point Navy, everyone gets their news from sources which are no longer impartial and if you only ever see one side, you'll think your views are centre ground.

[navyblueshorts]

Clutching at straws there JAS.  Jack Straw was over 4 years and Blunkett over 3, so same goes for Labour.

Basically the entire labour schtick seems to be couched around "vote for us, we're not the Tory Party"

Fair enough that's basically always the case after a three term government has run out of f*cks to give, but you'd think given their lead they might venture some actual policy for a change.

That's one of the problems of the children masquerading as adults in the Commons and the wider country. What was it Nicholson said in A Few Good Men - "You can't handle the truth.". In order to get power, Labour (in particular) have to hide details, which means we don't get to see what they're planing to do and vote in possession of the details. All Parties do it, and any mention of increasing any tax is apparently anathema, because we're incapable of understanding that it might be necessary and politicians are too weak to be honest with the electorate.

Great Britain? My arse.

[super_realist]

Anyone fancy taking a sweep on when Labour are going to say "we've looked at the books, and it's worse than we thought, so we have to raise taxes"

[JAS]

Clutching at straws there JAS.  Jack Straw was over 4 years and Blunkett over 3, so same goes for Labour.

Basically the entire labour schtick seems to be couched around "vote for us, we're not the Tory Party"

Fair enough that's basically always the case after a three term government has run out of f*cks to give, but you'd think given their lead they might venture some actual policy for a change.

I am disappointed in that aspect yes, trouble is if Starmer was bolder he would be pilloried relentlessly, Jesus look at the flak he took when he said he would be setting Friday nights for family time… an absolute deluge of unsubstantiated accusations and slurs mixed in with ridicule and abuse. Had he (and Reeves) gone for a series of taxes on the rich (as per the greens) to fund public services the media would have melted with the hysteria. Even though the only people directly affected by such measures would be the top 1% The foreign tax avoiding billionaire owned media and the Tories would have painted it as higher taxes for all (mind you they’ve tried/lied to do that anyway). So he has be subdued, get in, start to visibly improve things then go for a 2nd term being bolder. At the end of the day the British (English) public have been conditioned over decades to be Conservative and to accept blatant mistruths.

[navyblueshorts]

That was my point Navy, everyone gets their news from sources which are no longer impartial and if you only ever see one side, you'll think your views are centre ground.

I do try (when holding my nose) to read some of the right-wing media. Generally though, I'll take the Byline Times (and other output by their staff) over the mainstream published media, especially the dross served up the Murdoch group, Daily Fail, Telegraph...

[navyblueshorts]

Anyone fancy taking a sweep on when Labour are going to say "we've looked at the books, and it's worse than we thought, so we have to raise taxes"

Maybe their first spring budget? TBH, I think it would be irresponsible of them not to raise the taxes needed to fix country's obvious problems.

[JuliusHMarx]

Clutching at straws there JAS.  Jack Straw was over 4 years and Blunkett over 3, so same goes for Labour.

Basically the entire labour schtick seems to be couched around "vote for us, we're not the Tory Party"

Fair enough that's basically always the case after a three term government has run out of f*cks to give, but you'd think given their lead they might venture some actual policy for a change.

I am disappointed in that aspect yes, trouble is if Starmer was bolder he would be pilloried relentlessly, Jesus look at the flak he took when he said he would be setting Friday nights for family time… an absolute deluge of unsubstantiated accusations and slurs mixed in with ridicule and abuse. Had he (and Reeves) gone for a series of taxes on the rich (as per the greens) to fund public services the media would have melted with the hysteria. Even though the only people directly affected by such measures would be the top 1% The foreign tax avoiding billionaire owned media and the Tories would have painted it as higher taxes for all (mind you they’ve tried/lied to do that anyway). So he has be subdued, get in, start to visibly improve things then go for a 2nd term being bolder. At the end of the day the British (English) public have been conditioned over decades to be Conservative and to accept blatant mistruths.

I am disappointed that s_r didn't say 'clutching at Jack straws there'.

[super_realist]

You keep pushing that narrative that the British public are too stupid and that they've been duped by the Conservatives, perhaps they just don't like what Labour has been selling over the years.
You can obviously forget about the stupid politics of Foote and Corbyn so obviously they didn't get in and as for Harold Wilson, the man responsible for shutting down more coal mines than Thatcher and Callaghan's winter of discontent you can see why people are reticent to vote Labour.

[super_realist]

Anyone fancy taking a sweep on when Labour are going to say "we've looked at the books, and it's worse than we thought, so we have to raise taxes"

Maybe their first spring budget? TBH, I think it would be irresponsible of them not to raise the taxes needed to fix country's obvious problems.

I'm sure it's necessary due to some shiversomely bad COVID measures, but as discussed before, the UK is a ruinously inefficient country, so perhaps start there rather than just tax people to pour money into a black hole.

[super_realist]

That was my point Navy, everyone gets their news from sources which are no longer impartial and if you only ever see one side, you'll think your views are centre ground.

I do try (when holding my nose) to read some of the right-wing media. Generally though, I'll take the Byline Times (and other output by their staff) over the mainstream published media, especially the dross served up the Murdoch group, Daily Fail, Telegraph...

Funny you never mention the dross served up by BBC, Channel 4, Mirror, Guardian or SKY TV.

[JAS]

That was my point Navy, everyone gets their news from sources which are no longer impartial and if you only ever see one side, you'll think your views are centre ground.

I do try (when holding my nose) to read some of the right-wing media. Generally though, I'll take the Byline Times (and other output by their staff) over the mainstream published media, especially the dross served up the Murdoch group, Daily Fail, Telegraph...

Funny you never mention the dross served up by BBC, Channel 4, Mirror, Guardian or SKY TV.

SKY TV??? Am I missing something, has the Murdoch Empire binned Sky TV and I missed it??

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Since too many posts were made, this topic has been divided automatically. You can find the rest of this topic here :
https://www.606v2.com/t71633-another-drive4show-anything-goes-thread

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