Rugby World Cup - other team/games and general chat

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I couldn't see a topic to discuss general WC stuff and non home nations games.......

Now we do...

Fiji should lodge a formal complaint about the card/no card decisions in that match - Carley ruined a great match with his weak officiating ...

Hard luck, Fiji. Robbed of a deserved win by utterly incompetent officiating.

A very entertaining game to watch. 

Incredibly frustrating reffing decisions. 17 penalties against Wales, lots in the red zone. 9 against Fiji. Same number of yellows. Bizarre.

Remember your ‘rugby values’ peeps! Lots of double standards on this thread now.

Hard luck to Fiji in the end. Catches that and it’s their game you would think.

Felt so sorry for Radrada at the end there. Fiji had opened up Wales and were set to take a well deserved win but for that final fumble.

Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Fair play to Wales too, Fiji were like a terrifying wave coming for them and they (just about!) managed to withstand it.

Still needed the conversion - but should have been well ahead anyway if the YCs had been given as warranted ...

Looking forward to Australia Fiji next Sunday. Should be a cracking game.

Fiji getting 2 bonus points might come into the equation at the end of the group stage.

Some cynical stuff from Wales made the difference for the final score. Wales made a mess of the breakdown and got away with it - not the first time, won't be the last.

Mathew Carley usually can't wait to card people in the red zone. Wales did defend well and Fiji mismanaged the game without muntz. Still they have two points, knock Australia over and it's game on. Wales should beat Georgia and Portugal and you would think take a bonus point from Australia and job done.

Fiji are great value, they were certainly the better side in my view. Ref made it very hard for them.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Remember your ‘rugby values’ peeps! Lots of double standards on this thread now.

In what way?

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Remember your ‘rugby values’ peeps! Lots of double standards on this thread now.

Lots of one way traffic, you can’t claim the Welsh always do it (like they do on here) when there are just 4 Welsh posters here.

Anyway, have to take the win but we rode our luck in the closing stages. I guess the score was always going to be close with the teams close in the rankings. Hopefully Fiji beat Aus.

Maine man wrote:Fiji getting 2 bonus points might come into the equation at the end of the group stage.

I hope it does. I tend to have a soft spot for Wales when Reffell plays but after that I rather hope they don't make it past the group stage. Shame really as it means I have to support Eddie Jones and Australia.

Fiji played some brilliant rugby.

Wales backs looked very sharp at times but their discipline was shocking and it's unlikely they'll get that luck with the officials again. Need to smarten up their act. Wales have got one of the best wing pairings in the competition, need to make better use of them, it's at this point the excommunication of Hawkins comes back to bite. Some of those carries North and Tompkins made at the wrong time in the midfield would have much more likely gone to the wing in space or been kicked intelligently with a secondary playmaker in the centres.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Carley's review to hear his rationale about the way he handed out the cards - it's just completely mystifying

Gatland looks unhappy.

Should be happy - just got handed a get out of jail free card ...

https://twitter.com/Sonjamclaughlan/status/1700978615952048455?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1700978615952048455%7Ctwgr%5E167f47606f4c79d6453412fd42e41fde79ca6c0d%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Frugby-union%2F65867010

https://twitter.com/ugomonye/status/1700978484976537898?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1700978484976537898%7Ctwgr%5E167f47606f4c79d6453412fd42e41fde79ca6c0d%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Flive%2Frugby-union%2F65867010

Of all the things for refs to mess up on, I really don't get how a ref can get something like repeat penalties on the line so badly wrong, especially having given a warning. What's the point of assistant refs if they're not reminding him / suggesting a yellow would be called for.

RDW wrote:Of all the things for refs to mess up on, I really don't get how a ref can get something like repeat penalties on the line so badly wrong, especially having given a warning. What's the point of assistant refs if they're not reminding him / suggesting a yellow would be called for.

The worst part was that he carded Fiji right afterwards after one offense, that was a disgrace!

There’s a ban being given here shortly, for a stupid dig.

I don’t mind people being upset by officials, but I also won’t have people writing football nonsense like offended by everything, ashamed of nothing. When you consider the origins of it too, it’s very bad form to use.

I can see how cards should’ve been given, but where are the calls for the Welsh penalty when the Fijian scrum popped up at least once in their period of scrums? All the sealing off not allowing us to jackal?

Nobody knows how teams will adjust to losing players. England have given two masterclasses recently, including going down to 12 against Wales.

Wales have to readjust their selection for Australia. No Dillon Lewis and pick Henry Thomas for one. At least have centre cover on the bench. Definitely not Beard again either.

Lastly, chapeau Will Rowlands 27 tackles. Also Dee did around 13 off the bench.

Also. Nicky Smith ought to be on the bench instead of the Corey Dom, who did get a yellow for a dull act at least.

It won't have been the first week that World Rugby would have wanted.

They need to sort out the head-on-head clashes because currently no one has a clue. Curry was, rightly in my view, red-carded accorded to the laws, but since then we've had two more similar incidents (possibly three; I haven't seen the Biggar one) which have resulted in a yellow and no sanction whatsoever. So now we're all confused and won't have any idea what to expect the next time it happens.

Carley needs to be removed from the tournament and a full investigation needs to happen where he has to account for his decision-making.  A penalty count of 17 for Wales, 9 for Fiji, and it results in one YC each?

In the last 25 or so minutes, a rough count shows that Wales conceded 4 penalties five metres away or closer, and 3 penalties further away than five metres, but inside the 22. And none of these infringements resulted in anything more than a talking to (Wales' yellow was for an infringement just inside their own half). Whereas Fiji conceded one penalty in their 22 and it's an instant bin, with no talking to?

And that doesn't include the obvious no-arms tackle in the first half by a Welsh player which should have been a YC and a penalty try.

The one very entertaining game so far has been overshadowed by the officiating. And after loading up the first few days with close match-ups, further weeks of the group stage are going to contain more thrashings, which may harm the momentum of the tournament. Of the eight fixtures from Thursday-Sunday, only two of the games have the result in question (England/Japan and Australia/Fiji).

As above looking at the stats on pens vs yellows looks bad but the 1 thing I'd say on that is that not all pens are equal in that respect. As above the call for a standard number of pens to yellows raising its head, which doesn't solve anything but I think makes it slightly fairer ( on the ref too).

To be devil's advocate, I can see why the Fiji one was an instant yellow, rolling maul heading to the tryline about 6-7!meters out at pace. Can fully understand the yellow.

But seen against several infringements on their own line and just warnings it does come across as being ,at the minimum, an unconscious bias, at worst just not very good day at work.

I personally don't believe any ref goes out with the conscious idea that he will ref the two sides to different standards, but the problem seems to be that across the whole ref/TMO teams that it's perceived (quite fairly?) that the traditional tier 1 nation's seem to get the rub of the green more often

One thing I have noticed across all the games is teams deploying the
"oohh I have fallen the wrong side of the ruck but I am rolling out of the way ref, accidentally of course into the scrumhalf/ player coming to clean out, sorry I'm just getting out of the way it was an accident, honest guv"

Wish the refs would at least have a word

Perhaps. Sometimes, most times ita just how it feels on the pitch....and alot of us expect our players tp get that on their decisions like taking 3 pr going for the corner so I give leeway normally. I'm less inclined to think the penalty try no arms thing was ok. When you've got my time you should be getting those right. Perhaps the officials were aware that they were taking up time which WR seems to be trying to eliminate and rushed the decision?

Getting disillusioned with the game with how tier 2 nations are getting shafted. Be it disgraceful reffeering performances like last night or this new "world league" nonsense being brought in. We need the game to grow now more than ever.

RiscaGame wrote:Also. Nicky Smith ought to be on the bench instead of the Corey Dom, who did get a yellow for a dull act at least.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't start him, he at least gives Wales a strong set piece.

Lots of complaints from fans around their experience at the World Cup so far. Transport issues, long queues into stadia, poor anthems, weak opening ceremony, shortage of water and other drinks, air traffic controllers threatening strike. Personally I find it frustrating how hard it is to get transport to France. At least the rugby has been good despite some poor refereeing.

Fiji V Wales an awesome match and I loved the attitude from both teams. Wales are to be applauded for their win as this was a tough tough test.

However Carley was a disgrace and Fiji were totally shafted by him. The amount of penalties by Wales and especially in the red zone should have resulted in 2 or 3 yellow cards. And for Fiji to get the first yellow a total injustice in the context of what Wales got away with.

If that was England it would have been a different story for sure. I would like to see Nigel Owen’s review this one please.

“Lots of complaints from fans around their experience at the World Cup so far. Transport issues, long queues into stadia, poor anthems, weak opening ceremony, shortage of water and other drinks, air traffic controllers threatening strike. Personally I find it frustrating how hard it is to get transport to France. At least the rugby has been good despite some poor refereeing.“

I am on the TGV heading back to Paris now after attending both matches in Marseille. The stadium is beautiful as is the city. The old port a delight for fans to mingle, eat and drink. The metro to the stadium is chocker as expected but we walked 25 mins and got there both days ok. Entering the stadium very slow as just two main entry points. Bottlenecks and frustrations around but in the end not too bad. I was in both days in 20 minutes. Getting beers was a 30 minute job so we just gave up. Last night someone next to us went in minute 1 for beers and returned in minute 31. I prefer the rugby to the beer! Overall not a terrible experience. The anthems, especially ours, properly butchered by some choir and impossible to sing along with. But they don’t compare to the Millennium stadium or any 6Ns ground.

I wish Wales had a yellow earlier, tbh. Would've been interesting to see whether Wales would've changed tack.

Gatland has a lot of work to do, before Australia in 2 weeks. A lot of officials would've seen how ill disciplined they seemed.

Really feel for Fiji having to pick themselves up for Australia next too. Both teams must be pretty done in, but Wales can at least rest a few. At least there are longer turnarounds this WC.

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

Oakdene wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

There wasn't. He leads with a shoulder and is so low that right arm is never going to be able to wrap. The left arm isn't in a position to do so. It was dangerous and the fact it wasn't a penalty is embarrassing for the sport.

Superb game from Rowlands yet again. The man does everything so well and this is usually reflected in the stats. Makes me chuckle how Sam and a bunch of others kept saying he was average/club standard. Enjoy munching on your humble pie lads , Wales forever!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

There wasn't. He leads with a shoulder and is so low that right arm is never going to be able to wrap. The left arm isn't in a position to do so. It was dangerous and the fact it wasn't a penalty is embarrassing for the sport.

If the arm his hit by the leg & pushed backwards then it has to have been in a position to attempt a wrap.

Oakdene wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

Yeah, a few of us said there was nothing in it but this was ignored. It happens often in games, suddenly this one is the most important one ever?

Re the Elias no arms, Rowlands in the same move also goes with no arms. One of those where you're so focused on the 1 obvious infringement you miss the second.

mikey_dragon wrote:Superb game from Rowlands yet again. The man does everything so well and this is usually reflected in the stats. Makes me chuckle how Sam and a bunch of others kept saying he was average/club standard. Enjoy munching on your humble pie lads , Wales forever!

Woah. I've said for a while he's your best player. Maybe vying with Tomkins. or Maybe Jonny Williams.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

Yeah, a few of us said there was nothing in it but this was ignored. It happens often in games, suddenly this one is the most important one ever?

I know, haven't had a chance to read the whole thread but wonder if there was this much uproar that the South African centre wasn't sent off against Scotland.

Liam Williams was poor yesterday, would like to see Zammit at full back against Portugal.

Morgan & Rowlands were immense defensively but Bear was very much missing in action. Tompkins had his best game in a Welsh shirt & I don't think Wainwright went great at 6.

I see a lot of criticism for Elias for a) a no arms tackle (and if so then that's warranted criticism), but also for b) 'going too low'. WTF?! Are players not allowed to tackle low now?! 'He's gone too low and would never have been able to make that tackle'. No wonder people are being turned off the game. Can't tackle high. Criticised for bending at the hips and trying to tackle low.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

Yeah, a few of us said there was nothing in it but this was ignored. It happens often in games, suddenly this one is the most important one ever?

I know, haven't had a chance to read the whole thread but wonder if there was this much uproar that the South African centre wasn't sent off against Scotland.

Some calls for it on that thread, but they certainly weren't baying for blood like a pack of animals as they were on this thread!

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:I see a lot of criticism for Elias for a) a no arms tackle (and if so then that's warranted criticism), but also for b) 'going too low'.  WTF?!  Are players not allowed to tackle low now?! 'He's gone too low and would never have been able to make that tackle'.  No wonder people are being turned off the game.  Can't tackle high.  Criticised for bending at the hips and trying to tackle low.  

I thought he had his best game for us for a while really, I don't think the tackle was a no arms tackle & I've looked at it a few times.

He does tackle very low but that is a good skill to have in your locker. Lineout went well too.

Oakdene wrote:Liam Williams was poor yesterday, would like to see Zammit at full back against Portugal.

Morgan & Rowlands were immense defensively but Bear was very much missing in action. Tompkins had his best game in a Welsh shirt & I don't think Wainwright went great at 6.

It's so hard to tell how players went and how they would do against 'normal' opposition in the rest of the tournament. Fiji are almost unique in the way they have absolute athletes pretty much across the entire team. Wales won't face that sort of thing again as everyone else follows more traditional lines, e.g. with much more ponderous locks and relatively slow front rowers (give or take a few exceptions). But agree that Beard was missing. I think most were unhappy to see him named in the squad. Don't remember seeing him do anything outside of lineouts or scrums. Thought the centres went well in attack against very good opposition. Not so sure about defense, but Fiji tore us apart across the pitch so I think everyone struggled defensively.

This had shades of 2007 again where we tried to take Fiji on at their own game. As someone suggested earlier in the thread, Wales needed to put more structure on it. Kick for the corners, etc. Instead we tried running it out from our own 22 on numerous occasions and generally stuffed it up. Fiji are too fast, big and strong to try that approach.