Rugby World Cup - other team/games and general chat

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I couldn't see a topic to discuss general WC stuff and non home nations games.......

Now we do...

Agreed there, when we kicked grubbers in behind them & turned the defence they struggled to get out.

Williams did a really good scoup pass in defense, shame the tv producer showed no replays of it.

Collapse2005 wrote:

RDW wrote:Of all the things for refs to mess up on, I really don't get how a ref can get something like repeat penalties on the line so badly wrong, especially having given a warning. What's the point of assistant refs if they're not reminding him / suggesting a yellow would be called for.

The worst part was that he carded Fiji right afterwards after one offense, that was a disgrace!

(Very relieved) Welsh fan here.

Absolutely agree. Thought we deserved to be down to 13 due to repeated infringements on/ near the try line...

Exciting game - the rollercoaster of emotions I went through last night, from being nervous before the game, to surprisingly happy with how we were playing by half time, to an absolute wreck at the end!

Fiji can feel very hard done by not to have come away with the win there. Full credit to them for a great game - really love to watch them play - their handling is a thing of beauty! My hope going forward - we beat Australia (going to need a big improvement in game management) to win the group, and Fiji beat Australia to progress too.

mikey_dragon wrote:Superb game from Rowlands yet again. The man does everything so well and this is usually reflected in the stats. Makes me chuckle how Sam and a bunch of others kept saying he was average/club standard. Enjoy munching on your humble pie lads , Wales forever!

We said he wouldn't get in the England side and he still wouldn't. I'm glad to see him do well for Wales. He got out of Wasps at the right time and should get a nice pension top up in France over the next couple of seasons.

Oakdene wrote:Agreed there, when we kicked grubbers in behind them & turned the defence they struggled to get out.

When Wales turned to that kicking game after half time they started to pull away. When you've got that level of experience and class in the backline it makes no sense to be pulled into the Baabaas style first half they played.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Superb game from Rowlands yet again. The man does everything so well and this is usually reflected in the stats. Makes me chuckle how Sam and a bunch of others kept saying he was average/club standard. Enjoy munching on your humble pie lads , Wales forever!

Woah. I've said for a while he's your best player. Maybe vying with Tomkins. or Maybe Jonny Williams.

Tompkins missed 6 tackles and for me, still isn't an international player. Rowlands does well every single game, fair play to the man as there was a lot of hate when he declared for the land of his fathers. On form, Rowlands is first choice for the Lions. Hope you're enjoying your pie, leave some for Sam and Pooly .

Oakdene wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

There wasn't. He leads with a shoulder and is so low that right arm is never going to be able to wrap. The left arm isn't in a position to do so. It was dangerous and the fact it wasn't a penalty is embarrassing for the sport.

If the arm his hit by the leg & pushed backwards then it has to have been in a position to attempt a wrap.

Forearm on shin isn't an attempted wrap. It's a penalty. He's to low and there's no arms involved. I still think Carley misheard the TMO say there's no arms and no attempt to wrap. Heard arms and wrap and went with it.

It's not a red card get him banned but it's a penalty.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Penalties:
Wales 17
Fiji 9

Yellow cards:
1 each

Farcical. And that’s missing what should have been a penalty for the no arms tackle which stopped the fiji try in the first half and it includes a nonsense penalty call against Fiji for a double movement chalking off another fiji try.

Elias tries to wrap his arm but the Fiji players leg moves it back. The effort to wrap was there.

There wasn't. He leads with a shoulder and is so low that right arm is never going to be able to wrap. The left arm isn't in a position to do so. It was dangerous and the fact it wasn't a penalty is embarrassing for the sport.

If the arm his hit by the leg & pushed backwards then it has to have been in a position to attempt a wrap.

Forearm on shin isn't an attempted wrap. It's a penalty. He's to low and there's no arms involved. I still think Carley misheard the TMO say there's no arms and no attempt to wrap. Heard arms and wrap and went with it.

It's not a red card get him banned but it's a penalty.

His arm moved to wrap & was knocked backwards by the attacking player. His arm could have wrapped onto the other leg of the attacker so you can't say 100% that he wasn't wrapping or making an attempt to do so.

Collapse2005 wrote:Williams did a really good scoup pass in defense, shame the tv producer showed no replays of it.

The one in the 22? There was a replay of it. Fantastic bit of work from Sanjay under a lot of pressure.

I've heard that the TV producers for RWCs are employed directly through World Rugby. It feels like they are under instruction to show fewer replays to avoid controversy. If so it will only increase controversy, sadly.

Collapse2005 wrote:Williams did a really good scoup pass in defense, shame the tv producer showed no replays of it.

ITV showed a replay of it.

king_carlos wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Williams did a really good scoup pass in defense, shame the tv producer showed no replays of it.

The one in the 22? There was a replay of it. Fantastic bit of work from Sanjay under a lot of pressure.

I've heard that the TV producers for RWCs are employed directly through World Rugby. It feels like they are under instruction to show fewer replays to avoid controversy. If so it will only increase controversy, sadly.

I saw the replay, but heard the opposite - the TV producers are local and unless the TMO is involved the producer determines what gets shown. It was commented on in the France - NZ match that there was a conspicuous absence of replays where France were being naughty.

As for the Elias tackle, what I think I saw was that the TMO wanted to show Carley the tackle, showed one replay from the angle that showed the Elias tackle and then switched to an angle where the second tackle was the more visible one. I think Carley forgot which tackle he was supposed to be looking at. For me, the Elias tackle was worth a penalty - from the one replay, he dipped his leading shoulder and put himself in a position where there was no realistic chance at a wrap.

Also, what was it with all that nonsense with Sanjay jumping on Radradra and patting him on the head? That's not dangerous but it's seriously out of line with the values of the game.

Is anyone confident of Fiji beating Australia? I think Eddie Jones will have too much tactical nous, coupled with Fiji losing Muntz I just can't see it.

It'll be absolutely gut wrenching to see Fiji go out because of this game.

Poorfour wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Williams did a really good scoup pass in defense, shame the tv producer showed no replays of it.

The one in the 22? There was a replay of it. Fantastic bit of work from Sanjay under a lot of pressure.

I've heard that the TV producers for RWCs are employed directly through World Rugby. It feels like they are under instruction to show fewer replays to avoid controversy. If so it will only increase controversy, sadly.

I saw the replay, but heard the opposite - the TV producers are local and unless the TMO is involved the producer determines what gets shown. It was commented on in the France - NZ match that there was a conspicuous absence of replays where France were being naughty.

As for the Elias tackle, what I think I saw was that the TMO wanted to show Carley the tackle, showed one replay from the angle that showed the Elias tackle and then switched to an angle where the second tackle was the more visible one. I think Carley forgot which tackle he was supposed to be looking at. For me, the Elias tackle was worth a penalty - from the one replay, he dipped his leading shoulder and put himself in a position where there was no realistic chance at a wrap.

Also, what was it with all that nonsense with Sanjay jumping on Radradra and patting him on the head? That's not dangerous but it's seriously out of line with the values of the game.

Yeah I wasn't a fan of that!

Just wondering if we are all having the same commentary teams for the actual game broadcasts. Over here the game commentary teams are pretty mediocre. One of the teams appears to have a kiwi play-by-play person and includes Joel Stransky who I generally like but doesn't seem to have the same amount of time to talk about plays than I usually expect from him.

Oakdene wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:I see a lot of criticism for Elias for a) a no arms tackle (and if so then that's warranted criticism), but also for b) 'going too low'.  WTF?!  Are players not allowed to tackle low now?! 'He's gone too low and would never have been able to make that tackle'.  No wonder people are being turned off the game.  Can't tackle high.  Criticised for bending at the hips and trying to tackle low.  

I thought he had his best game for us for a while really, I don't think the tackle was a no arms tackle & I've looked at it a few times.

He does tackle very low but that is a good skill to have in your locker. Lineout went well too.

I mentioned tackling low.
Now tackling low is Fantastick

What I mentioned was players throwing themselves face/ shoulder first at people's lower legs. It wasn't aimed at any Welsh player in particular as it's something I have seen from a lot of forwards in lots of teams.

Mainly forwards when defending the fringes of the ruck.
It's dangerous for both the ball carrier and the tackler and think more refs should penalise it.

carpet baboon wrote:To be devil's advocate, I can see why the Fiji one was an instant yellow, rolling maul heading to the tryline about 6-7!meters out at pace. Can fully understand the yellow.

But seen against several infringements on their own line and just warnings it does come across as being ,at the minimum, an unconscious bias, at worst just not very good day at work.

I personally don't believe any ref goes out with the conscious idea that he will ref the two sides to different standards, but the problem seems to be that across the whole ref/TMO teams that it's perceived (quite fairly?) that the traditional tier 1 nation's seem to get the rub of the green more often

Yeah, I think the Fiji one was a fair yellow. But if Wales had done the same thing, it's unlikely to have resulted in the same sanction. And Fiji deserve to know why they were refereed to a different standard.

Duty281 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:To be devil's advocate, I can see why the Fiji one was an instant yellow, rolling maul heading to the tryline about 6-7!meters out at pace. Can fully understand the yellow.

But seen against several infringements on their own line and just warnings it does come across as being ,at the minimum, an unconscious bias, at worst just not very good day at work.

I personally don't believe any ref goes out with the conscious idea that he will ref the two sides to different standards, but the problem seems to be that across the whole ref/TMO teams that it's perceived (quite fairly?) that the traditional tier 1 nation's seem to get the rub of the green more often

Yeah, I think the Fiji one was a fair yellow. But if Wales had done the same thing, it's unlikely to have resulted in the same sanction. And Fiji deserve to know why they were refereed to a different standard.

You cannot possibly know that!

carpet baboon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:I see a lot of criticism for Elias for a) a no arms tackle (and if so then that's warranted criticism), but also for b) 'going too low'.  WTF?!  Are players not allowed to tackle low now?! 'He's gone too low and would never have been able to make that tackle'.  No wonder people are being turned off the game.  Can't tackle high.  Criticised for bending at the hips and trying to tackle low.  

I thought he had his best game for us for a while really, I don't think the tackle was a no arms tackle & I've looked at it a few times.

He does tackle very low but that is a good skill to have in your locker. Lineout went well too.

I mentioned tackling low.
Now tackling low is Fantastick

What I mentioned was players throwing themselves face/ shoulder first at people's lower legs. It wasn't aimed at any Welsh player in particular as it's something I have seen from a lot of forwards in lots of teams.

Mainly forwards when defending the fringes of the ruck.
It's dangerous for both the ball carrier and the tackler and think more refs should penalise it.

Wales & other sides have used the chop tackle for a while now, Lydiate is a great example of it.

Oakdene wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:I see a lot of criticism for Elias for a) a no arms tackle (and if so then that's warranted criticism), but also for b) 'going too low'.  WTF?!  Are players not allowed to tackle low now?! 'He's gone too low and would never have been able to make that tackle'.  No wonder people are being turned off the game.  Can't tackle high.  Criticised for bending at the hips and trying to tackle low.  

I thought he had his best game for us for a while really, I don't think the tackle was a no arms tackle & I've looked at it a few times.

He does tackle very low but that is a good skill to have in your locker. Lineout went well too.

I mentioned tackling low.
Now tackling low is Fantastick

What I mentioned was players throwing themselves face/ shoulder first at people's lower legs. It wasn't aimed at any Welsh player in particular as it's something I have seen from a lot of forwards in lots of teams.

Mainly forwards when defending the fringes of the ruck.
It's dangerous for both the ball carrier and the tackler and think more refs should penalise it.

Wales & other sides have used the chop tackle for a while now, Lydiate is a great example of it.

A chop tackle to me is fine as it involves the arms.
Too often it just seems to be shoulder, face at the shins.
Which is both reckless, illegal and asking for a concussion and broken leg

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Williams did a really good scoup pass in defense, shame the tv producer showed no replays of it.

ITV showed a replay of it.

Interesting, I watch it on Virgin and didnt see it but maybe just missed it. We have Alan Wynn Jones as a pundit, he seems very uncomfortable sandwiched between Rob Kearney and Matt Williams.

As much as I like and admire him he hasn't exactly been the most effervescent of personalities so far which is a shame as Rob Kearney is already fairly dull.

No 7&1/2 wrote:As above looking at the stats on pens vs yellows looks bad but the 1 thing I'd say on that is that not all pens are equal in that respect. As above  the call for a standard number of pens to yellows raising its head, which doesn't solve anything but I think makes it slightly fairer ( on the ref too).

Yes true but at least one of many close to the line was blatant cynical play from Biggar (I think) which by that time should have been a stone-cold yellow ...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is anyone confident of Fiji beating Australia? I think Eddie Jones will have too much tactical nous, coupled with Fiji losing Muntz I just can't see it.

It'll be absolutely gut wrenching to see Fiji go out because of this game.

No, not confident at all. But I will be cheering them on.

Oakdene wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:To be devil's advocate, I can see why the Fiji one was an instant yellow, rolling maul heading to the tryline about 6-7!meters out at pace. Can fully understand the yellow.

But seen against several infringements on their own line and just warnings it does come across as being ,at the minimum, an unconscious bias, at worst just not very good day at work.

I personally don't believe any ref goes out with the conscious idea that he will ref the two sides to different standards, but the problem seems to be that across the whole ref/TMO teams that it's perceived (quite fairly?) that the traditional tier 1 nation's seem to get the rub of the green more often

Yeah, I think the Fiji one was a fair yellow. But if Wales had done the same thing, it's unlikely to have resulted in the same sanction. And Fiji deserve to know why they were refereed to a different standard.

You cannot possibly know that!  

Hence why I said unlikely. Wales committed equally cynical and ball-killing penalties when Fiji were close to their try line, four such penalties within five metres, but the referee never reached for a card, so I wouldn't expect him to have done so if Wales pulled down a maul.

Collapse2005 wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Williams did a really good scoup pass in defense, shame the tv producer showed no replays of it.

ITV showed a replay of it.

Interesting, I watch it on Virgin and didnt see it but maybe just missed it. We have Alan Wynn Jones as a pundit, he seems very uncomfortable sandwiched between Rob Kearney and Matt Williams.

As much as I like and admire him he hasn't exactly been the most effervescent of personalities so far which is a shame as Rob Kearney is already fairly dull.

AWJ has always seemed uncomfortable in front of the cameras for me, from the interviews pre-, post- and during matches that I've seen. Always seemed to stumble on his words and get a bit flustered. I wondered if he had a speech impediment to be honest. Haven't seen him as a pundit on TV yet, only as a player/captain giving press conferences and interviews in the tunnel during matches.

Noble-Surfer wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is anyone confident of Fiji beating Australia? I think Eddie Jones will have too much tactical nous, coupled with Fiji losing Muntz I just can't see it.

It'll be absolutely gut wrenching to see Fiji go out because of this game.

No, not confident at all. But I will be cheering them on.

Cheering on Fiji or cheering on Oz?

I’m thinking Oz vs wales and Oz vs Fiji are both 50/50s on who would win. Also don’t go forgetting about Georgia who aren’t pushovers. Fiji’s two BPs from last night could prove very valuable to them

Absolutely, if Fiji can pick up three bonus point wins then they'll finish on 17 points. And while Australia will be a tough game, if Fiji are going to win I'd reckon they would be scoring four tries along the way.

Even if Wales then get five point wins over Georgia and Portugal, they'd be on 15, and a loss to Australia that takes only one bonus point or zero would then see Fiji through. Or Wales beat Australia and that would leave Fiji's position even safer, provided they of course beat Australia on Sunday.

Does seem hard on Fiji that they have to play their two toughest games back to back, but that's the luck of the draw.

tigertattie wrote:

Noble-Surfer wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Is anyone confident of Fiji beating Australia? I think Eddie Jones will have too much tactical nous, coupled with Fiji losing Muntz I just can't see it.

It'll be absolutely gut wrenching to see Fiji go out because of this game.

No, not confident at all. But I will be cheering them on.

Cheering on Fiji or cheering on Oz?

I’m thinking Oz vs wales and Oz vs Fiji are both 50/50s on who would win. Also don’t go forgetting about Georgia who aren’t pushovers. Fiji’s two BPs from last night could prove very valuable to them

Fiji.

Obviously, we would still need to beat Australia (and win our other games, to guarantee top spot), but I love the way Fiji play, so would like to see them go through ahead of Australia.

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Superb game from Rowlands yet again. The man does everything so well and this is usually reflected in the stats. Makes me chuckle how Sam and a bunch of others kept saying he was average/club standard. Enjoy munching on your humble pie lads , Wales forever!

Woah. I've said for a while he's your best player. Maybe vying with Tomkins. or Maybe Jonny Williams.

Tompkins missed 6 tackles and for me, still isn't an international player. Rowlands does well every single game, fair play to the man as there was a lot of hate when he declared for the land of his fathers. On form, Rowlands is first choice for the Lions. Hope you're enjoying your pie, leave some for Sam and Pooly .

I sincerely hope you are joking about Rowlands being first choice for the lions. Wasn't even the best lock at wasps before the demise.

Yoda wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Superb game from Rowlands yet again. The man does everything so well and this is usually reflected in the stats. Makes me chuckle how Sam and a bunch of others kept saying he was average/club standard. Enjoy munching on your humble pie lads , Wales forever!

Woah. I've said for a while he's your best player. Maybe vying with Tomkins. or Maybe Jonny Williams.

Tompkins missed 6 tackles and for me, still isn't an international player. Rowlands does well every single game, fair play to the man as there was a lot of hate when he declared for the land of his fathers. On form, Rowlands is first choice for the Lions. Hope you're enjoying your pie, leave some for Sam and Pooly .

I sincerely hope you are joking about Rowlands being first choice for the lions. Wasn't even the best lock at wasps before the demise.

Another one, too clueless to see what is going on right in front of them. England don't currently have a better lock, probably why they're relying on South Africans like everyone else. There's no humble pie left for you I'm afraid, you'll have to stay on the street

Wow I think you need to calm down. Undiluted rage and stress is a killer. People are allowed to disagree with you it's healthy. If you think Rowlands is that good then great but he wouldn't make my lions list. Either way it's two insignificant people's opinions that ultimately have no sway in selection. It's great Wales have given you a victory but if a sports affects you like this perhaps you need to seek help. Love and peace, take care.

Yoda, I think you need to calm down. If you're going to post something completely untrue just to annoy people, don't get upset over the response. Man up . If it is about the humble pie it's fine, there is always some ready to be served up to you lot. Stop being so bitter because you lost to Fiji and then had to watch Wales show you how to do it. Not even Ribbans could save you.

Jesus. You know Wales are looking dire when mikey resorts to this level of wumming so early in a tournament. I thought we'd have to wait for a heavy Wales loss or Pivac getting called in by Gats as a consultant to get this level of meltdown.

Moving on. I’ll leave this here

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=fQS3kzgLYkg&si=4MbaEh_Aznt--2Em

Infinitely better than Non, je ne regrette rien that we’re currently having inflicted on us. Some say it’s a french classic, I find it a note warbling mess

It’s a shame there are no midweek games in the earlier part of the week during the WC. Not sure how else they could have spaced them (not my job!) as player welfare and rest is paramount, but one of the things I love about World Cups in general is catching a random game at 1pm on a Tuesday lunchtime, like you get with football World Cups, etc. No games from Sunday until Thursday is a bit of a bummer.

Edit: just seen there are a couple of Wednesday games in a week or two. That’s a start!

It’s not just player welfare, it’s lack of matches to put on. We have 48 matches in total while the roundballers have 64

Or if you break it down by teams, we have 20 and they have 32.

Good point, tiger. Yes, with only 4 pools of 5 there's not much to show overall!

Just being a selfish sports fan here I guess!

I wonder though, did they need to have 4 games in a day back to back on Saturday? Could they have spread it around a bit to have fewer empty days? I thought the Wales v Fiji game was cracking the other day (lets not mention the ref ) and I woke up all excited for rugby...... and then nothing til Thursday, which is France v Uruguay which is going to be a walkover anyway, so not much to get my teeth into this week .

Of this round of matches the most interesting is going to be Australia Fiji, although Samoa Chile could be a lot of fun. All the other games should be forgone conclusions

I always think a plate competition would be fun

lostinwales wrote:I always think a plate competition would be fun

I think that would be great too. Maybe a 16 team comp run at the same time, maybe even sharing stadia before/after the main WC games? Or perhaps as 'filler' for the quieter times of the week. 16 teams who missed out on WC places. Would certainly increase exposure for some of the smaller nations.

lostinwales wrote:Of this round of matches the most interesting is going to be Australia Fiji, although Samoa Chile could be a lot of fun. All the other games should be forgone conclusions

As a neutral, I will only fully be engaged by England v Japan and Australia v Fiji next block of games. I expect England to do a good job, but I do have a bit of a soft spot for Japan after watching them live a couple of times.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I always think a plate competition would be fun

I think that would be great too.  Maybe a 16 team comp run at the same time, maybe even sharing stadia before/after the main WC games? Or perhaps as 'filler' for the quieter times of the week.  16 teams who missed out on WC places.  Would certainly increase exposure for some of the smaller nations.

That would be a viable option in player management terms, though whether it could achieve a balance between getting big enough crowds to be commercial while not overstretching the infrastructure would need to be worked out.

The issue with regular midweek games was that they were unfair. The tv schedules tended to priorities Tier 1 matches being played at the weekends, so they tended to get a full week between games, while the Tier 2 teams would typically find themselves playing 2 games in a 4 day period or even 3 in 8, which put them as a huge disadvantage.

In 2019, IIRC, they made sure that the midweek games were more fairly distributed, with T1 teams all taking a midweek game.

This time round, they seem to have scheduled things quite cleverly. There are by weeks in the schedule for each team, and some teams play most of their games on a Wednesday or Thursday so that they don't have to play on a weekend as well. The shortest time between matches is 6 days, with 6 Tier 1 and 8 Tier 2 matches being on that turnaround. Namibia have the toughest schedule, with all their matches 6 days apart. Argentina probably have the easiest, with a shortest turnaround of 8 days, longest of 13 and average of 9.67.

Poorfour wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I always think a plate competition would be fun

I think that would be great too.  Maybe a 16 team comp run at the same time, maybe even sharing stadia before/after the main WC games? Or perhaps as 'filler' for the quieter times of the week.  16 teams who missed out on WC places.  Would certainly increase exposure for some of the smaller nations.

That would be a viable option in player management terms, though whether it could achieve a balance between getting big enough crowds to be commercial while not overstretching the infrastructure would need to be worked out.

The issue with regular midweek games was that they were unfair. The tv schedules tended to priorities Tier 1 matches being played at the weekends, so they tended to get a full week between games, while the Tier 2 teams would typically find themselves playing 2 games in a 4 day period or even 3 in 8, which put them as a huge disadvantage.

In 2019, IIRC, they made sure that the midweek games were more fairly distributed, with T1 teams all taking a midweek game.

This time round, they seem to have scheduled things quite cleverly. There are by weeks in the schedule for each team, and some teams play most of their games on a Wednesday or Thursday so that they don't have to play on a weekend as well. The shortest time between matches is 6 days, with 6 Tier 1 and 8 Tier 2 matches being on that turnaround. Namibia have the toughest schedule, with all their matches 6 days apart. Argentina probably have the easiest, with a shortest turnaround of 8 days, longest of 13 and average of 9.67.

Good analysis, Poorfour. Yes, purely from a player welfare and fairness to Tier2 I can see why they’ve done it. Seems much fairer this time now that you’ve shown the turnaround times. As I said, it’s probably just me with my fan hat on wanting to be entertained 24/7 by the WC

Of course, they could televise the disciplinary hearings over the course of the off days. Though of course they’d actually have to cite some non-English players if they want enough hearings to keep the crowd entertained.

Can I just say that the ITV hub is a load of poopie?
Too laggy to work over a firestick (The stick is old but the WIFI should be excellent) and I can't seem to rewind and fast forward the video. I am not going to watch from the start if that means an hour of talking heads first.

BBC Iplayer, Amazon tools just so much better for this kind of stuff.

I'm just generally not impressed with ITV's rugby coverage so far in this world cup, pity the likes of BBC couldn't get this, they aren't perfect but they generally have better coverage.

The dire state of a lot, not all but lots, of sports coverage drives me nuts. The steady decent of comms and punditry into jobs for the boys is so depressing. Just an easy pay check for those once successful in the game who in some cases are even openly disinterested in it now. If you no longer like a sport enough to do some prep for a 2 hour gig that pays thousands then f**k off and get a desk job. 

Bill McLaren's famous study has 30,000 pieces of rugby memorabilia when he passed away that he'd used to prepare for commentary stints. The great cricket commentator Richie Benaud despite being a successful Aussie captain stayed in the UK after a tour to train as a presenter, took an entry level journalists position not even in sport, worked up to being a sports columnist, then came back into radio comms, finally TV. He researched painstakingly for the comm stints he viewed as a privilege to get to do.

When you read autobiographies for commentators from various sports from that era the thing that stands out is the standards they were held to both when coming through the ranks and as big names. McLaren was one of many great commentators that came from BBC radio in the Fifties and progressed to TV. John Arlott in cricket, David Coleman in the Olympics, Murray Walker in F1, Harry Carpenter in boxing. They were held to high standards. The same with Benaud in cricket. Channel 9 that broadcast Aussie cricket for decades didn't care that Benaud, Bill Lawry and Tony Greig were bigger names in the comms box than the players. If they had a rubbish stint on the mic they were pulled to one side and asked, "what the f**k was that". They didn't mind either because they understood that need for standards.

Good commentary is essential to sports thriving. The ability to breakdown why things that may seem mundane can actually be fascinating in their tactical intricacy and allow the game to work. The knowledge but also communication skills to take a complex reffing decision and concisely explain the process to avoid unnecessary confusion.

Now we've gone from McLaren's 30,000 item study that he prepped in to the likes of SCW and Dallagio not even knowing the current laws. I f***ing despise it. That makes me want to stop watching rugby much more than perplexing inconsistency in high tackle sanctions.

King_Carlos, with respect are you really comparing apples with apples?! Bill McLaren was a commentator. The others you mention such as Dallaglio and SCW are pundits. Bit of a difference. I would imagine all commentators prepare their notes in a similar way (maybe not to the extent of McLaren). John Motson in football springs to mind. Encyclopaedic knowledge of the game from years and years of study. Pundits are there for their recent(ish) top level play/coaching in the game. Yes the pundits need to be better this WC. But they’re there for their experience whereas commentators are there for their ability to describe a game for a tv/radio audience and their knowledge, facts and anecdotes about players (a la Mclaren).

So I guess the question is: have any of the actual commentators been rubbish this WC? I.e. Miles Harrison, Nick Mullins, et al. Or is it just the pundits???

Mostly pundits I'd say although there have also been some poor commentary performances too.

The pundits that constantly ignore the rules really do my nut in, like I don't care what the law was in your day (the pundit I am referring to) that's not the way it is now and in most cases it's not that way for very good reasons.  

Dallaglio actually started his diatribe at the weekend with the words 'I know I'm English but I watch rugby every week' well you wouldn't know it Lawrence from the way you get on. If you cannot be bothered to prep even a little or let go of your past rules and accept what they are now then don't be a pundit.

The commentators got stuff wrong too, the calls for example, I think one of them missed a card being confirmed as a yellow at one point and was surprised when the guy came back on the ptich even though the icon had gone yellow quite some time before that and we actually heard it from the TMO to the ref.

However I do have some sympathy for some of the commentators because at times like this they often will bring in commentators from other sports who aren't completely knowledgeable in rugby becuase of the number of games so maybe they don't know completely everything.

ITV just annoy me with their poor punditry, these errors from commentators, their open bias at times (towards all the home nations) and also quite often they don't show the teams before the game this time, instead they take breaks then maybe the team is shown after the game has started or like an hour in advance in the build up or something.

One of the laziest comments Lol ever made when commenting on.a European game involving Clermont and he stated that it wasn't fair that Clermont could play a 6 ft 4 monster like Raka on the wing. Except of course that Raka is 6 ft 2 and Dayglo, who is around 6 ft 4, was pitch side looking at Raka, and still spouting drivel. Hilarious.