Ireland vs Scotland

by bsando Sat 30 Sep 2023, 10:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ireland vs Scotland

RWC 2023, Pool B

Saturday 7 October, 8pm
Stade de France, Saint-Denis

Referee: Nic Berry
Assistant Referee 1: Wayne Barnes
Assistant Referee 2: Jordan Way
TV Match Official: Brett Cronan

Ireland

15. Hugo Keenan, 14. Mack Hansen, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Bundee Aki, 11. James Lowe, 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Jamison Gibson-Park

1. Andrew Porter, 2. Dan Sheehan, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Tadhg Beirne, 5. Iain Henderson, 6. Peter O’Mahony, 7. Josh van der Flier, 8. Caelan Doris

Replacements:16. Ronan Kelleher, 17. David Kilcoyne, 18. Finlay Bealham, 19. James Ryan, 20. Jack Conan, 21. Conor Murray, 22. Jack Crowley, 23. Stuart McCloskey

Scotland

15. Blair Kinghorn, 14. Darcy Graham, 13. Huw Jones, 12. Sione Tuipulotu, 11. Duhan van der Merwe, 10. Finn Russell, 9. Ali Price; 1. Pierre Schoeman, 2. George Turner, 3. Zander Fagerson, 4. Richie Gray, 5. Grant Gilchrist, 6. Jamie Ritchie (capt), 7. Rory Darge, 8. Jack Dempsey.

Replacements: 16. Ewan Ashman, 17. Rory Sutherland, 18. WP Nel, 19. Scott Cummings, 20. Matt Fagerson, 21. Luke Crosbie, 22. George Horne, 23. Ollie Smith.

by jimbopip Mon 02 Oct 2023, 12:26 pm

BigGee wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Lads, lads
Let's all put a quid in each...send Gee (he's the only Saint amongst us so we can trust him with the cash) along to his local bookies and put it on a Scotland 41-Ireland 20 with 5pts and 4 pts respectively.
If it comes in we either go to Oz en-mass for the next Lions tour or we all pay this winter's leccy bills.

Confession - I did once "get lost" at the Middlesex sevens carrying the beer float.

By the time we got back to the club that night, most of it seemed to have been spent.

Fortunately no-one seem to have much memory of events the next day

fixed that for you, Gee. Whistle

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 02 Oct 2023, 12:29 pm

jimbopip wrote:Lads, lads
Let's all put a quid in each...send Gee (he's the only Saint amongst us so we can trust him with the cash) along to his local bookies and put it on a Scotland 41-Ireland 20 with 5pts and 4 pts respectively.
If it comes in we either go to Oz en-mass for the next Lions tour or we all pay this winter's leccy bills.

Don't be ridiculous!

... its the water bills we'll be spending the winnings on...

by Collapse2005 Mon 02 Oct 2023, 12:30 pm

George Carlin wrote:

Just to clarify for the benefit of all Irish posters here, all Scotland fans who know anything about the game and are currently sober share this opinion. There are currently 10 full WR ranking points between the two sides in the world rankings table. That is a huge gap. Nothing about recent forms suggests that Scotland will win - nothing.

Scotland has a puncher's chance and that's it. The press will talk up the contest because they have to and there are links which need to be clicked but I don't think anyone is expecting much other than Ireland by 2 scores and some daylight.

On the arrogant point, I do want to say a few things, as someone who has been following the sport seriously for nearly 40 years: 1. All Irish supporters that I know personally are an absolute joy. 2. I have met at least half of the current Irish squad in person and have no problems with any of them. 3. Over the past 5 years, it has become so painful to read the crowing, jingoistic, condescending nonsense which the mainstream Irish sports TV and mainstream rugby press has come to produce that it has become unsufferable. I cannot read these articles in the Independent and Times any more which is a real shame because I used to love them.

I remember when Scotland 5 Nations games against Ireland used to be almost guaranteed wins. I enjoyed those wins but never thought that we were just 'better' automatically before we took the field. Unfortunately, the current mob of Irish rugby writers seem to have forgotten this and are behaving like the bitter school nerd who has just become a hedge fund manager and realises that female sportswear models are now interested in dating him and he really has to let the whole world know it. I am so pleased for the Irish team's success - it's lovely to see, truly.

Just that your press really need to stop talking down to everyone who isn't NZ and South Africa.

Hey George I remember the days that Scotland kept winning v Ireland and I have to say Scotland were just better and for most of the 90s that was absolutely the case. 12 games v Ireland without a loss all throughout the 90s how could it not be. In that 12 game stretch in 1994 Ireland got a 6 - 6 draw, I was at that game and it felt like a huge win as the reality is there was a gulf in quality between the two sides. Its ok to point that out.

by jimbopip Mon 02 Oct 2023, 12:34 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:

All of this is largely irrelevant anyway, Ireland aren't the number one team in the world by fluke, they've repeatedly beaten the top teams to get to this position. Across the side they don't have any obvious weaknesses and have a coach who is amongst the best in the world.

The chances of Scotland getting a win while not letting Ireland get a LBP/TBP is the stuff of fantasy. Look at the 6n, Ireland lost player after player and still got the better of us. I know this is going to seem really negative, but I think we can give Ireland a game, we're just not at the level currently where we can win and beat the number one side in the world by a margin. Just getting a win would be a huge result (and do wonders for our world ranking), but sadly not quite enough.

I hope we at least run Ireland close and make them work for their inevitable qualification. Also, for the record I have no issue with Irish fans (although they largely haven't) taking about who they might face in the qtrs. They would have to mess up significantly to let this slip away from them, and having faith in their team and coaches to not let that happen isn't so much as them writing us off, but more a confidence in their side, which given how they have performed over the last few years is more than justified.

I'm with Spoons on this alas
Just to clarify for the benefit of all Irish posters here, all Scotland fans who know anything about the game and are currently sober share this opinion. There are currently 10 full WR ranking points between the two sides in the world rankings table. That is a huge gap. Nothing about recent forms suggests that Scotland will win - nothing.

Scotland has a puncher's chance and that's it. The press will talk up the contest because they have to and there are links which need to be clicked but I don't think anyone is expecting much other than Ireland by 2 scores and some daylight.

On the arrogant point, I do want to say a few things, as someone who has been following the sport seriously for nearly 40 years: 1. All Irish supporters that I know personally are an absolute joy. 2. I have met at least half of the current Irish squad in person and have no problems with any of them. 3. Over the past 5 years, it has become so painful to read the crowing, jingoistic, condescending nonsense which the mainstream Irish sports TV and mainstream rugby press has come to produce that it has become unsufferable. I cannot read these articles in the Independent and Times any more which is a real shame because I used to love them.

I remember when Scotland 5 Nations games against Ireland used to be almost guaranteed wins. I enjoyed those wins but never thought that we were just 'better' automatically before we took the field. Unfortunately, the current mob of Irish rugby writers seem to have forgotten this and are behaving like the bitter school nerd who has just become a hedge fund manager and realises that female sportswear models are now interested in dating him and he really has to let the whole world know it. I am so pleased for the Irish team's success - it's lovely to see, truly.

Just that your press really need to stop talking down to everyone who isn't NZ and South Africa.

Just to throw in my own perspective on this, my earliest opinion of Irish rugby fans was formed when watching a 5 Nations match from the old Landsdown Road; with time running out and chasing the game Scotland got a penalty in front of the posts. knowing that a successful kick would mean a draw but a try would win the match Doug Morgan elected to take the tap and roll the dice. In the moments while the Scotland team got into place for the tap the Irish crowd applauded Morgan to the rafters. You've got to respect that. Given how ineptly the pack then proceeded to play maybe they were celebrating the certainty of victory rather than sportingly acknowledging a brave decision, though.

by carpet baboon Mon 02 Oct 2023, 1:38 pm

Geordie wrote:Well the Irish seem to think theyre in the Qtrs already so i seriously hope Scotland smash them over the park.

To be clear the only people who I have heard that from are English media.

And let's be honest, if England were ranked number 1 and had beaten everyone in the last 18 months the press would have them in the finals already, claiming how far ahead of the rest they are, superlatives would be running out.

But as it's an ex member of the Empire they must be put back in their place and get "smashed" to "take them down a peg or two"

Well that's my opinion anyway

by Tramptastic Mon 02 Oct 2023, 1:57 pm

BigGee wrote:The trouble with throwing lineout in training is that it does not replicate doing it under pressure in a match and all of our hookers bar none seem to get the yips on occasikns in those big moments.

Think Fraser Brown 8 years ago!

I would not have any great issue if he did pick JM over Ashman I love what he brings to Glasgow as a player but I don't think he will. If there really is nothing between them, then he should stick with Ashman, he may well be our future and it could be pretty devastating to him to be dropped now, he may need to bank these experiences for gsmes to come.

Whats Matthews throwing like for Glasgow?

Nah, lets not talk about sacrificing the present for the future, here and now if Matthews can throw better than Ashman then he should. I thought Matthews was excellent when he came on, his support line for his try was excellent, bring that energy off the bench against Ireland please!

Enough doom and gloom, we are going to win on Saturday because its been pre-arranged by Farrell, Toonie, Hunter Bidens Laptop, Spherical Earth Big Money and the French media. Everybody wins! Except South Africa!

by **George Carlin** Mon 02 Oct 2023, 4:16 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
BigGee wrote:The trouble with throwing lineout in training is that it does not replicate doing it under pressure in a match and all of our hookers bar none seem to get the yips on occasikns in those big moments.

Think Fraser Brown 8 years ago!

I would not have any great issue if he did pick JM over Ashman I love what he brings to Glasgow as a player but I don't think he will. If there really is nothing between them, then he should stick with Ashman, he may well be our future and it could be pretty devastating to him to be dropped now, he may need to bank these experiences for gsmes to come.

Whats Matthews throwing like for Glasgow?

Nah, lets not talk about sacrificing the present for the future, here and now if Matthews can throw better than Ashman then he should. I thought Matthews was excellent when he came on, his support line for his try was excellent, bring that energy off the bench against Ireland please!

Enough doom and gloom, we are going to win on Saturday because its been pre-arranged by Farrell, Toonie, Hunter Bidens Laptop, Spherical Earth Big Money and the French media. Everybody wins! Except South Africa!

The thing that Irish fans need to know about Matthews is that he's scored 24 tries in 50 appearances for Glasgow which for a hooker is absolutely insane.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 02 Oct 2023, 4:40 pm

This conspiracy sounds like something Rob Howley would plan to resolve the WRU funding issues.

by Mcsweens Mon 02 Oct 2023, 6:36 pm

It was interesting to hear John Barclay after the Romania game, talk up Kyle Steyn's inclusion (presumably at the expense of Duhan)

by tigertattie Mon 02 Oct 2023, 6:39 pm

You can’t omit Duhan from the team. He’s scoring tries against teams who aren’t Romania.

Also the logic/tactic of someone who can chase high balls is sound and Duhan is proven at doing this. Just see what he did to SA when he was in the lions team. Kick and catch tactic worked a dream

by Mcsweens Mon 02 Oct 2023, 6:42 pm

Duhan is excellent, and I think he will play, but I think JB is onto a certain something. I feel dirty just thinking this, but I think Steyn has better hands, and is slightly more balanced, and still very physical.

The margins are so, so fine.

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Oct 2023, 6:47 pm

Graham and DVDM are going to be our starting wingers.

Kyle Steyn is a fantastic player and will win plenty more Scotland caps.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

JB also talks some b*llocks occasionally. That is his job now!

by neilthom7 Mon 02 Oct 2023, 7:03 pm

Unfortunately as a team becomes more sucessfull like Ireland have been recently more people become fans who have no idea what they are on about. Which is fine as long as they understand they don't know but sadly some of the louder ones don't understand that.

Undoubtedly it happens everywhere, I've seen plenty of umm casual fans and heard conversations that made me want to slap them at Ravenhill down the years and probably happens more during a major tournament.

Journalists are almost always full of rubbish and especially the ones who now have to pretend like they know anything about rugby just because it's a major sport.

What I will say is this, any Ireland fan who knows what they are on about knows this is a very tough game. Ireland may have a good record v Scotland recently but that means nothing now, this is a 1 off game between 2 good teams and anything can happen. All the number 1 in the wrold stuff, the 16 games won etc all means zero, this is the time when the Ireland team have to go out there and play their best rugby, if they don't they will go out.

It's just a pity both teams are in the same group as I would love to have seen this as an actual knockout game and both teams have deserved to be in the knockouts. Good luck to both sides at the weekend, may the best team win.

Now if anyone needs me the only way I can possibly watch this game and not pass out is by being drunk so I'm going to get started now

by Mcsweens Mon 02 Oct 2023, 8:12 pm

BigGee wrote:Graham and DVDM are going to be our starting wingers.

Kyle Steyn is a fantastic player and will win plenty more Scotland caps.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

JB also talks some b*llocks occasionally. That is his job now!

Yeah I agree with that, obviously, and I'm not going to set up a vigil outside Chez Dodson if Steyn doesn't play (plenty other reasons for that). But I think Steyn has attributes that Duhan doesn't have, and I suspect Ireland have just about figured out how to contain him. Happy to be proven wrong and see vdw score a hatrick...

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Oct 2023, 8:25 pm

They both may make more mistakes than KS. But they can both do more ball in hand and create something from nothing than he can.

I am not sure you can ever work out an act of sheer genius agsinst you as a defending team, and both of these two have it in them to do that against you.

I don't want Kyle Steyn to be simply labelled as a safe pair of hands, as he is much more than that as an attacking threat in his own right.

Our best chance of winning against Ireland, though, involves us scoring more tries than they do.

Our best chance of that is jf Duhan and Darcy start.

by tigertattie Mon 02 Oct 2023, 8:44 pm

Absolutely mr Gee

Ireland have tended to defend narrow. I’m not a high paid international coach but surely the game plan needs to be crash balls down the 10 channel. Tuipulotu and Dempsey running directly at saint Johnny of Sexpest. The when Ireland have their backrow in the middle to defend that area, chuck the ball wide and let the speedsters do their thing.

by **George Carlin** Mon 02 Oct 2023, 11:54 pm

Duhan has 21 tries for Scotland and Darcy has 24.

There's no way on earth they aren't starting.

It took Hogg and Mossy about 1,389 games for Scotland to get anywhere near that.

by TJ Tue 03 Oct 2023, 6:57 am

Steyn is a very good player and at any other time would be a nailed on starter for Scotland. Its his misfortune to be around at the same time as two truly exceptional talents.

What a position we are in tho when its "which player do we leave out?" rather than the dog days when it was " has anyone seen a decent back who is Scotland qualified?"

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 8:45 am

TJ wrote:Steyn is a very good player and at any other time would be a nailed on starter for Scotland. Its his misfortune to be around at the same time as two truly exceptional talents.

What a position we are in tho when its "which player do we leave out?" rather than the dog days when it was " has anyone seen a decent back who is Scotland qualified?"

When the most exciting thing to happen in the backs was chips over the top to be dropped by the squashed goblin, Simon Danielli's mullet mohawk, shlong making it across 95% of the pitch to the new Zealand tryline to be turned over due to the lack of support.

Dan Parks. Just Dan Parks.

To be fair in some ways it was more exciting due to the dirge we were used to! I think we'd struggle to cope seeing the team now, straight down to Ladbrokes for a bet on the GrandSlam.

by Tramptastic Tue 03 Oct 2023, 8:54 am

The Steyn Question is a good one to have.

Kyle Steyn and Darcy Graham have the best core skills out of the 3. You can tell both spent some decent amount of time on the sevens circuit - 1v1 tackles are 95% of the time made, passing is good, aerial skills are good and footwork for both is excellent (while Steyn doesnt have a rapid step like Graham, he always gets a good cut back inside making surprising amount of yards every time).

Duhan can do things neither of them can. However, whilst he got over the top plaudits in the Tonga game and folks were crawing about his stats, in the first half the amount of sideways crabbing he did before taking contact behind the gainline was infuriating. I thought he was awful and if he does that against Ireland it'll cost us every single time.

The Irish are canny, i reckon they have duhans number for this one. Give the wing spots to Steyn and Graham please. Duhan can play against the all blacks in the quarters.

by Tramptastic Tue 03 Oct 2023, 8:57 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
TJ wrote:Steyn is a very good player and at any other time would be a nailed on starter for Scotland. Its his misfortune to be around at the same time as two truly exceptional talents.

What a position we are in tho when its "which player do we leave out?" rather than the dog days when it was " has anyone seen a decent back who is Scotland qualified?"

When the most exciting thing to happen in the backs was chips over the top to be dropped by the squashed goblin, Simon Danielli's mullet mohawk, shlong making it across 95% of the pitch to the new Zealand tryline to be turned over due to the lack of support.

Dan Parks. Just Dan Parks.

To be fair in some ways it was more exciting due to the dirge we were used to! I think we'd struggle to cope seeing the team now, straight down to Ladbrokes for a bet on the GrandSlam.

Truely it was a golden age of mass delirium where on a week to week basis we all thought "Yeh, with this team we could win the six nations, just need the right set of results, opposition injuries and luck to go our way..."

by EST Tue 03 Oct 2023, 9:56 am

Tramptastic wrote:The Steyn Question is a good one to have.

Kyle Steyn and Darcy Graham have the best core skills out of the 3. You can tell both spent some decent amount of time on the sevens circuit - 1v1 tackles are 95% of the time made, passing is good, aerial skills are good and footwork for both is excellent (while Steyn doesnt have a rapid step like Graham, he always gets a good cut back inside making surprising amount of yards every time).

Duhan can do things neither of them can. However, whilst he got over the top plaudits in the Tonga game and folks were crawing about his stats, in the first half the amount of sideways crabbing he did before taking contact behind the gainline was infuriating. I thought he was awful and if he does that against Ireland it'll cost us every single time.

The Irish are canny, i reckon they have duhans number for this one. Give the wing spots to Steyn and Graham please. Duhan can play against the all blacks in the quarters.

100% this - he still plays as if he is still the biggest lad at mini rugby, he is such a unit that against the lower quality international teams he gets away with it, I don't think he has ever made that big an impression against Ireland cause they are good enough to shut hum down physically.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 10:12 am

I must admit I've found myself getting very frustrated at his side crabbing, you're a big lad Dwayne, run straight!

Steyn for me is the new Maitland, underrated and contributes more to the team. VdM should be an impact sub.

by Oakdene Tue 03 Oct 2023, 10:19 am

I'll be honest as a Welshman this is the match I am most excited for this weekend. As long as we do a professional job against Georgia, I will be free to enjoy this match. Looking forward to seeing Scotland really go for it.

by jimbopip Tue 03 Oct 2023, 10:33 am

An interesting discussion.
We have three wingers with the arguably best try per game ratios that we have ever had. Hoggy took 100 games to get to 27 tries and Doohey and AADHD are closing in on him after about 40; Seaman is scoring at a slightly faster rate , albeit after fewer games, than Doohey. Mind they all pale into insignificance beside the Unsupervised Fatboy's 100% scoring rate.
Doohey's real strength is his strength.
AADHD's is his SAQ.
Seaman falls somewhere in the middle in my opinion.

I don't think Lowe or Hansen will be phased by a big laddie charging straight at them. That's a quiet Saturday night in Limerick.
But then, is ADHD's defence sound enough for the Irish juggernaut?

All three will play some part in the game and for me the deciding factor could well be who will up the pace most if they come on at 50 minutes?

I wouldn't be too shocked (actually I would be astounded) if we saw seaman at 13 and the other two on the wings.

by Pete330v2 Tue 03 Oct 2023, 12:03 pm

Hey, I'll tell you what, nobody in the Ireland camp will be taking the Scottish threat lightly as is the case with most Irish rugby fans. The Journos, as has been highlighted, need a bit of sensationalism and clickbait. Some of them know little about the game clearly but the serious ones know how serious the threat is.
Are Ireland in a better place than they've ever been ? Yes
Are Ireland RWC chokers as in the past? Absolutely not, far to well drilled, managed and professional both mentally and physically.
Can Scotland win on Saturday? Absolutely.

I do think this Irish side will have a little too much IQ for the Scotland side but to realistically predict what will happen would need a degree in chaos theory amongst others. After watching what happened in the game against the Saffers though I am very confident in Ireland's ability to not only accurately implement the game plan but to very quickly adapt if it isn't working. There isn't just Plan A as under Schmidt, there's Plan B and a couple of backups no doubt. South Africa effectively shut down Ireland's attack options but Ireland recognised this very quickly and knew how to react and change the plan. That's the IQ that was missing before, that's what stop choking, the arrogance that comes when you know you can deal with whatever is thrown at you.
You might know how to plan to shut down Ireland's plan A but be ready to shut down B, C and D too.

As I said, that can all go to pot when the unpredictable occurs and in Rugby it usually does.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 12:04 pm

jimbopip wrote:An interesting discussion.
We have three wingers with the arguably best try per game ratios that we have ever had. Hoggy took 100 games to get to 27 tries and Doohey and AADHD are closing in on him after about 40; Seaman is scoring at a slightly faster rate , albeit after fewer games, than Doohey. Mind they all pale into insignificance beside the Unsupervised Fatboy's 100% scoring rate.
Doohey's real strength is his strength.
AADHD's is his SAQ.
Seaman falls somewhere in the middle in my opinion.

I don't think Lowe or Hansen will be phased by a big laddie charging straight at them. That's a quiet Saturday night in Limerick.
But then, is ADHD's defence sound enough for the Irish juggernaut?

All three will play some part in the game and for me the deciding factor could well be who will up the pace most if they come on at 50 minutes?

I wouldn't be too shocked (actually I would be astounded) if we saw seaman at 13 and the other two on the wings.

Matthews is going to beat the try record and retire at 32

by Old Man Tue 03 Oct 2023, 12:25 pm

Tramptastic wrote:The Steyn Question is a good one to have.

Kyle Steyn and Darcy Graham have the best core skills out of the 3. You can tell both spent some decent amount of time on the sevens circuit - 1v1 tackles are 95% of the time made, passing is good, aerial skills are good and footwork for both is excellent (while Steyn doesnt have a rapid step like Graham, he always gets a good cut back inside making surprising amount of yards every time).

Duhan can do things neither of them can. However, whilst he got over the top plaudits in the Tonga game and folks were crawing about his stats, in the first half the amount of sideways crabbing he did before taking contact behind the gainline was infuriating. I thought he was awful and if he does that against Ireland it'll cost us every single time.

The Irish are canny, i reckon they have duhans number for this one. Give the wing spots to Steyn and Graham please. Duhan can play against the all blacks in the quarters.

Veryinteresting take, I just watched Jim Hamilton on his show and he was saying VDM and Steyn, the English flyhalf (forgot his name now) was saying D'Arcy and VDM.

I kind of agree with your summation that VDM will be more predictable to the Irish.

by bsando Tue 03 Oct 2023, 12:49 pm

Old Man wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:The Steyn Question is a good one to have.

Kyle Steyn and Darcy Graham have the best core skills out of the 3. You can tell both spent some decent amount of time on the sevens circuit - 1v1 tackles are 95% of the time made, passing is good, aerial skills are good and footwork for both is excellent (while Steyn doesnt have a rapid step like Graham, he always gets a good cut back inside making surprising amount of yards every time).

Duhan can do things neither of them can. However, whilst he got over the top plaudits in the Tonga game and folks were crawing about his stats, in the first half the amount of sideways crabbing he did before taking contact behind the gainline was infuriating. I thought he was awful and if he does that against Ireland it'll cost us every single time.

The Irish are canny, i reckon they have duhans number for this one. Give the wing spots to Steyn and Graham please. Duhan can play against the all blacks in the quarters.

Veryinteresting take, I just watched Jim Hamilton on his show and he was saying VDM and Steyn, the English flyhalf (forgot his name now) was saying D'Arcy and VDM.

I kind of agree with your summation that VDM will be more predictable to the Irish.

When he’s off his wing looking for work he is very difficult to contain. Games where he’s barely involved are always very frustrating. If Graham and VDM can get a lot of ball then it’ll cause Ireland problems. Personally I think Scotland need to really break the game up and keep it as unstructured as possible.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 03 Oct 2023, 1:59 pm

Russell can win the game with a moment of magic.
Both back rows will battle it out and not give an inch.
Both front rows will use every trick in the book at scrum time.
Both sets of locks should compete for every lineout.

Form is quite strong for both sides.
They know each other really well through URC and 6Ns.

This is a one off game, the rankings go out the window.
Really looking forward to this game. The 'real' competition starts now.
Ireland historically have looked like a wounded deer in the sniper's sights around this time of a RWC.

by Oakdene Tue 03 Oct 2023, 2:02 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Russell can win the game with a moment of magic.
Both back rows will battle it out and not give an inch.
Both front rows will use every trick in the book at scrum time.
Both sets of locks should compete for every lineout.

Form is quite strong for both sides.
They know each other really well through URC and 6Ns.

This is a one off game, the rankings go out the window.
Really looking forward to this game. The 'real' competition starts now.
Ireland historically have looked like a wounded deer in the sniper's sights around this time of a RWC.

Agreed, it's pretty much a round of 16 knock out match for both sides.

I fancy the Scottish centres to cause a little bit of chaos.

I really think the Scot's will have to vary their lineout like Wales did against Australia.

by EST Tue 03 Oct 2023, 2:07 pm

Oakdene wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Russell can win the game with a moment of magic.
Both back rows will battle it out and not give an inch.
Both front rows will use every trick in the book at scrum time.
Both sets of locks should compete for every lineout.

Form is quite strong for both sides.
They know each other really well through URC and 6Ns.

This is a one off game, the rankings go out the window.
Really looking forward to this game. The 'real' competition starts now.
Ireland historically have looked like a wounded deer in the sniper's sights around this time of a RWC.

Agreed, it's pretty much a round of 16 knock out match for both sides.

I fancy the Scottish centres to cause a little bit of chaos.

I really think the Scot's will have to vary their lineout like Wales did against Australia.

Lineout is a huge worry for Scotland (and the 2nd row more generally), it has been terrible this WC - Turner and Ashman give me no confidence that they can resolve our woes on Saturday. I do wonder if Matthews might just be gallus enough to be the man to step up and take ownership...

by **George Carlin** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 3:12 pm

The problem with VdM is that he's been the determining factor in Scotland scoring a series of 6N wins over England, France and Wales in the past 2 years.

For all that he's as predictable as my son's demands for more screen time, he simply is a nightmare to stop from 10m out in a way that no other Scottish player is. As a supersub, he'd be highly impactful but that would be a real luxury to leave him out.

by **George Carlin** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 3:14 pm

EST wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Russell can win the game with a moment of magic.
Both back rows will battle it out and not give an inch.
Both front rows will use every trick in the book at scrum time.
Both sets of locks should compete for every lineout.

Form is quite strong for both sides.
They know each other really well through URC and 6Ns.

This is a one off game, the rankings go out the window.
Really looking forward to this game. The 'real' competition starts now.
Ireland historically have looked like a wounded deer in the sniper's sights around this time of a RWC.

Agreed, it's pretty much a round of 16 knock out match for both sides.

I fancy the Scottish centres to cause a little bit of chaos.

I really think the Scot's will have to vary their lineout like Wales did against Australia.

Lineout is a huge worry for Scotland (and the 2nd row more generally), it has been terrible this WC - Turner and Ashman give me no confidence that they can resolve our woes on Saturday. I do wonder if Matthews might just be gallus enough to be the man to step up and take ownership...

The issue with the Scoring Scouser is that in most games for Glasgow he only plays half an hour. That's not remotely comparable to being squished for 80 minutes in the paddy threshing machine. Substitute only for him, I fear.

by jimbopip Tue 03 Oct 2023, 3:46 pm

So, before Tramptastic The Mole tells us all, here's my side

Sutherland-Turner-Ragnar Shooey-SS Jonny-Nel

Ritchie-GG Cummings

Mbawza-Dempsey- Darge Hamish Fagerson

White Hornito
Dancer
Huipoluto
Doohey-Blarehorn-Seaman ADHD

It's a 6/2: Seaman can cover 15 and 13. Blarehorn can cover 10. Rory darge can cover centtes if there's a real catastrophe.

by **George Carlin** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 3:56 pm

jimbopip wrote:So, before Tramptastic The Mole tells us all, here's my side

Sutherland-Turner-Ragnar Shooey-SS Jonny-Nel

Ritchie-GG Cummings

Mbawza-Dempsey- Darge Hamish Fagerson

White Hornito
Dancer
Huipoluto
Doohey-Blarehorn-Seaman ADHD

It's a 6/2: Seaman can cover 15 and 13. Blarehorn can cover 10. Rory darge can cover centtes if there's a real catastrophe.

James - they are going to have to play Gray The Elder in order to make sure we at least win some of our own lineout...

by jimbopip Tue 03 Oct 2023, 4:02 pm

George Carlin wrote:
jimbopip wrote:So, before Tramptastic The Mole tells us all, here's my side

Sutherland-Turner-Ragnar Shooey-SS Jonny-Nel

Richie-GG Cummings

Mbawza-Dempsey- Darge Hamish Fagerson

White Hornito
Dancer
Huipoluto
Doohey-Blarehorn-Seaman ADHD

It's a 6/2: Seaman can cover 15 and 13. Blarehorn can cover 10. Rory darge can cover centtes if there's a real catastrophe.
James - they are going to have to play Gray The Elder in order to make sure we at least win some of our own lineout...

How many second rows do we have called Richie?

by **George Carlin** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 4:18 pm

jimbopip wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
jimbopip wrote:So, before Tramptastic The Mole tells us all, here's my side

Sutherland-Turner-Ragnar Shooey-SS Jonny-Nel

Richie-GG Cummings

Mbawza-Dempsey- Darge Hamish Fagerson

White Hornito
Dancer
Huipoluto
Doohey-Blarehorn-Seaman ADHD

It's a 6/2: Seaman can cover 15 and 13. Blarehorn can cover 10. Rory darge can cover centtes if there's a real catastrophe.
James - they are going to have to play Gray The Elder in order to make sure we at least win some of our own lineout...
How many second rows do we have called Richie?

The Old Mbawza/Richie Switcheroo picard

Irish posters will have lost track of this dialogue ages ago.

by jimbopip Tue 03 Oct 2023, 4:35 pm

George Carlin wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
jimbopip wrote:So, before Tramptastic The Mole tells us all, here's my side

Sutherland-Turner-Ragnar Shooey-SS Jonny-Nel

Richie-GG Cummings

Mbawza-Dempsey- Darge Hamish Fagerson

White Hornito
Dancer
Huipoluto
Doohey-Blarehorn-Seaman ADHD

It's a 6/2: Seaman can cover 15 and 13. Blarehorn can cover 10. Rory darge can cover centtes if there's a real catastrophe.
James - they are going to have to play Gray The Elder in order to make sure we at least win some of our own lineout...
How many second rows do we have called Richie?
The Old Mbawza/Richie Switcheroo

Irish posters will have lost track of this dialogue ages ago. Lets throw in a Quote Function

malfunction just keep them off balance. Headscratch

I think that the centres will be where it is all won and lost. If we don't stop Aki getting over the gainline every time he receives the ball we're in for a long day. VDF hits more own ball rucks than any other Irish player: Aki carries more than any other. If VDF is hitting the ruck while our back row are running back to get in position then Sextoy is getting quick ball and we're Friar Tucked. If the Shug'n'Shona show knock him backwards then Darge or Mbawza can really fecc up the Irish recycling. If sextoy is getting slow ball we can rattle his cage.

Of course it could well be that the ref confuses the breakdown laws with the beginners guide to Interperative Dance and awards penalties for Creative Use Of Extraneous Body Parts and then we're fecced because POm is a long standing acolyte of that fella Diaghilev.
Similarly, a referee who has once witnessed, or had a pint with someone who once witnessed, a legal scrum would go a long way to helping us stay in the game.

by jimbopip Tue 03 Oct 2023, 4:37 pm

[quote="jimbopip"]

George Carlin wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
James - they are going to have to play
The Old Mbawza/Richie Switchie

I couldn't resist that, GC.

by jimbopip Tue 03 Oct 2023, 4:47 pm

Nick Berry is the ref. Wayne Barnes and Jordan Way are the assistant referees, with Brett Cronan on TMO duty.

Berry vomit

I seem to remeber he has that SH attitude of letting the attacking side make it up as they go along at scrum and breakdown time. All in the name of keeping the game flowing. Ragnar will spend a lot of the game on the naughty step.

We're doomed. Doomed I say.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 03 Oct 2023, 6:51 pm

jimbopip wrote:Nick Berry is the ref. Wayne Barnes and Jordan Way are the assistant referees, with Brett Cronan on TMO duty.

Berry I seem to remeber he has that SH attitude of letting the attacking side make it up as they go along at scrum and breakdown time. All in the name of keeping the game flowing. Ragnar will spend a lot of the game on the naughty step.

We're doomed. Doomed I say.

Could be worse. Could be Karl Dickson.

At least they've got Barnes on the touchline, I feel he's one of the few good refs left. That Irish lass is quite good but there is obviously a vested interest there!

by Collapse2005 Wed 04 Oct 2023, 10:35 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Nick Berry is the ref. Wayne Barnes and Jordan Way are the assistant referees, with Brett Cronan on TMO duty.

Berry I seem to remeber he has that SH attitude of letting the attacking side make it up as they go along at scrum and breakdown time. All in the name of keeping the game flowing. Ragnar will spend a lot of the game on the naughty step.

We're doomed. Doomed I say.

Could be worse. Could be Karl Dickson.

At least they've got Barnes on the touchline, I feel he's one of the few good refs left. That Irish lass is quite good but there is obviously a vested interest there!

Its a bit odd to me that all the key group B clashes have had SH refs. Especially given there are more NH refs in the tournament.

I am however, happy that Ireland havent had Angus Gardner, Id probably have anyone ahead of him, even Barnes.

Will be interesting to see who the QF ref for the NZ game is whoever makes it there.

by **RDW** Wed 04 Oct 2023, 11:11 am

Are we actually debating whether Duhan will start? Madness.

In other news Ritchie is in the training pictures so I'm guessing he's fit.

by EST Wed 04 Oct 2023, 11:25 am

RDW wrote:Are we actually debating whether Duhan will start? Madness.

In other news Ritchie is in the training pictures so I'm guessing he's fit.

Toonie is almost guaranteed to pick him, but I don't think it's madness at all. He is a beast going forward, but he has a tendency to crab sideways, he can get caught out defensively and isn't the best in the air - our basics are going to have to be so good in this game and not give Ireland any easy points, to me Steyn and Darcy are better equipped for this one.

by Oakdene Wed 04 Oct 2023, 11:28 am

EST wrote:
RDW wrote:Are we actually debating whether Duhan will start? Madness.

In other news Ritchie is in the training pictures so I'm guessing he's fit.

Toonie is almost guaranteed to pick him, but I don't think it's madness at all. He is a beast going forward, but he has a tendency to crab sideways, he can get caught out defensively and isn't the best in the air - our basics are going to have to be so good in this game and not give Ireland any easy points, to me Steyn and Darcy are better equipped for this one.

Fair play he does crab sideways but he normally hits a gap or makes yards if he hits contact.

by **RDW** Wed 04 Oct 2023, 11:36 am

EST wrote:
RDW wrote:Are we actually debating whether Duhan will start? Madness.

In other news Ritchie is in the training pictures so I'm guessing he's fit.

Toonie is almost guaranteed to pick him, but I don't think it's madness at all. He is a beast going forward, but he has a tendency to crab sideways, he can get caught out defensively and isn't the best in the air - our basics are going to have to be so good in this game and not give Ireland any easy points, to me Steyn and Darcy are better equipped for this one.

Yeah yeah yeah.

But he's still gonna pick Duhan!

by 123456789. Wed 04 Oct 2023, 11:52 am

Duhan is subpar defensively and is unorthodox in attack. He is also enormous and can do something that literally no other Scotland player can. We don't have many big carriers. Dempsey is good carrier but he may be the only out and out ball carrier in the pack. Darge is no Watson yet. Schoeman makes good yards but he's more of a grunter than someone who is going to make big metres. Tuipulotu's carrying is decent but perhaps not up there with the best 12s in the world. If you take Duhan out then you really lose that opportunity to get go forward ball. We need to go out and score tries. Duhan is more likely than anyone else.

by R!skysports Wed 04 Oct 2023, 12:00 pm

So are we about to hit the dark horses territory again....? :-)

by Tramptastic Wed 04 Oct 2023, 12:21 pm

So, teams been sent across

Schoe
Turner
Z Fagerson
Gray Sr
Gilchrist
Ritchie
Darge
Dempsey

Price
Russell
Duhan
Tuipulotu
Jones
Graham
Kinghorn

Bench:

Ashman
Sutherland
Nel
Cummings
M Fagerson
Luke Crosbie
Horne
Smith

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