2nd RWC 2023 semi-final England v South Africa

First topic message reminder :

Having just watched that awesome match with France and seeing the SA players, with family, parade around the ground I can't help feeling that our main hope of not being thrashed lies in their complacency. They will go in as massive favourites and rightly so. England will be fighting for their very lives to avoid humiliation and this often brings out the best in teams. I don't think it will be enough, but it might help keep the score to below 45.

Realistically do we have a prayer?

I'm pretty sure it took sir Clive a long time to expand England's attack. We were hefty upfront and could do basics well but sometimes got caught out when sides stood up to the well drilled plan. Only after a few years of familiarity and a bit of stardust (Billy the wizz) did we start to threaten all over the park. We had greenwood as a second playmaker and I still think we need to find that creative player in midfield. Could be entirely wrong but surely Leicester wouldn't have won the premiership without being handy in attack. That's the only thing that's keeping me going and more positive than I was six months ago. If 7.5 is right we are doomed and won't win diddly squat. We may beat a few big teams by sheer will alone but not consistently enough to be contenders for 6nations or world cup.

No 7&1/2 wrote:WR now looking into the Mbonambi Curry incident too. Would have been difficult for the officials to act at the time but running the risk of being banned now would really hit SA in the final.

No idea how to approach this. If as reported, then very bad and needs to be dealt with harshly. But if not as reported, or if misunderstood, then what? And, at least as far as I have read, we don't know yet.

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:WR now looking into the Mbonambi Curry incident too. Would have been difficult for the officials to act at the time but running the risk of being banned now would really hit SA in the final.

No idea how to approach this. If as reported, then very bad and needs to be dealt with harshly.  But if not as reported, or if misunderstood, then what?  And, at least as far as I have read, we don't know yet.

There are clips on Twitter of just before Curry approached O'Keefe, and Afrikaan speakers are sure what they hear there isn't an English insult. However, UK papers say that isn't the incident World Rugby is reviewing. There's no indication of whether there is also audio of this other moment.

Rugby Fan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:WR now looking into the Mbonambi Curry incident too. Would have been difficult for the officials to act at the time but running the risk of being banned now would really hit SA in the final.

No idea how to approach this. If as reported, then very bad and needs to be dealt with harshly.  But if not as reported, or if misunderstood, then what?  And, at least as far as I have read, we don't know yet.

There are clips on Twitter of just before Curry approached O'Keefe, and Afrikaan speakers are sure what they hear there isn't an English insult. However, UK papers say that isn't the incident World Rugby is reviewing. There's no indication of whether there is also audio of this other moment.

At this point it seems mobody knows what was said, or whether Tom Curry misinterpreted whatever Mbonambi was saying.

Very few Afrikaners use the C word, however as to what the locals in Cape Province area use as swear words I am not familiar with.

The word kant (side) in afrikaans is pronounced exactly like the C word. Wit is white in Afrikaans, the pronounciation is like $hit but the W is pronounced as in Willem, a vibrating v as you would use in vitriol.


I would not be surprised if some words were thrown around in the match, it was quite confrontational at times where the English celebrated every maul stop, breakdown penalty with a yeehaa. So the players did get into each other's faces a bit.

I am just surprised that Mbonambi would actually racially insult someone as that kind of behaviour is very much taboe amongst South Africans. They will call you a number of explitives, but not consider adding racial connotations to it.

Anyway I suspect this will blow over, very surprised a man of Curry's stature would run to a referee, unless either he was trying to milk advantage after inciting a form of response from the Bok players, or perhaps he is more sensitive than we know.

Thanks for that explanation. From my point of view, I certainly hope this was not what Curry appears to have understood. And as you said, players in such an important match as well as a very physical one, emotions will run. That is not to excuse any racial, antisemitic, or any other kind of trash, but I truly think it is relatively uncommon at higher levels if for no other reasons than people have to work together.

Old Man wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:WR now looking into the Mbonambi Curry incident too. Would have been difficult for the officials to act at the time but running the risk of being banned now would really hit SA in the final.

No idea how to approach this. If as reported, then very bad and needs to be dealt with harshly.  But if not as reported, or if misunderstood, then what?  And, at least as far as I have read, we don't know yet.

There are clips on Twitter of just before Curry approached O'Keefe, and Afrikaan speakers are sure what they hear there isn't an English insult. However, UK papers say that isn't the incident World Rugby is reviewing. There's no indication of whether there is also audio of this other moment.

At this point it seems mobody knows what was said, or whether Tom Curry misinterpreted whatever Mbonambi was saying.

Very few Afrikaners use the C word, however as to what the locals in Cape Province area use as swear words I am not familiar with.

The word kant (side) in afrikaans is pronounced exactly like the C word. Wit is white in Afrikaans, the pronounciation is like $hit but the W is pronounced as in Willem, a vibrating v as you would use in vitriol.


I would not be surprised if some words were thrown around in the match, it was quite confrontational at times where the English celebrated every maul stop, breakdown penalty with a yeehaa. So the players did get into each other's faces a bit.

I am just surprised that Mbonambi would actually racially insult someone as that kind of behaviour is very much taboe amongst South Africans.  They will call you a number of explitives, but not consider adding racial connotations to it.

Anyway I suspect this will blow over, very surprised a man of Curry's stature would run to a referee, unless either he was trying to milk advantage after inciting a form of response from the Bok players, or perhaps he is more sensitive than we know.

So you follow an excellent explanation with a cheap shot?

lostinwales wrote:

Old Man wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:WR now looking into the Mbonambi Curry incident too. Would have been difficult for the officials to act at the time but running the risk of being banned now would really hit SA in the final.

No idea how to approach this. If as reported, then very bad and needs to be dealt with harshly.  But if not as reported, or if misunderstood, then what?  And, at least as far as I have read, we don't know yet.

There are clips on Twitter of just before Curry approached O'Keefe, and Afrikaan speakers are sure what they hear there isn't an English insult. However, UK papers say that isn't the incident World Rugby is reviewing. There's no indication of whether there is also audio of this other moment.

At this point it seems mobody knows what was said, or whether Tom Curry misinterpreted whatever Mbonambi was saying.

Very few Afrikaners use the C word, however as to what the locals in Cape Province area use as swear words I am not familiar with.

The word kant (side) in afrikaans is pronounced exactly like the C word. Wit is white in Afrikaans, the pronounciation is like $hit but the W is pronounced as in Willem, a vibrating v as you would use in vitriol.


I would not be surprised if some words were thrown around in the match, it was quite confrontational at times where the English celebrated every maul stop, breakdown penalty with a yeehaa. So the players did get into each other's faces a bit.

I am just surprised that Mbonambi would actually racially insult someone as that kind of behaviour is very much taboe amongst South Africans.  They will call you a number of explitives, but not consider adding racial connotations to it.

Anyway I suspect this will blow over, very surprised a man of Curry's stature would run to a referee, unless either he was trying to milk advantage after inciting a form of response from the Bok players, or perhaps he is more sensitive than we know.

So you follow an excellent explanation with a cheap shot?

considering the antics of the English players during the match, not really.

Old Man wrote:considering the antics of the English players during the match, not really.

A lot of top teams have examples of poor behaviour at this World Cup. Arguably, more than at other tournaments. Some All Black player reactions to beating Ireland seemed ungracious. New Zealand pundits excuse this as a reaction to feeling disrespected by Ireland during last year's tour, with POM's comment to Sam Cane as exhibit one. French captain Antoine Dupont, often called the world's leading player, openly said referee O'Keefe wasn't up to the job. That kind of remark has drawn sanctions before. Willie Le Roux running in to taunt several English players after the final whistle was unedifying. As Old Man points out, several English players were screaming about their successes all through the match, which is behaviour even some England supporters don't care for.

Yeah england really ramped up trying to goad opponents during the tournament. I have absolutely no.problem with Curry complaining about racist abuse (as he saw it though). That's not part of the game and no one should just have to put up with that.

Any form of racism is abhorrent so most will acknowledge that.

What I find interesting is if Mbonambi did racially abuse Curry how that would go down with his white SA team mates. Given history of apartheid in SA and the big strides made to create unity among supporters and team etc if he did actually say what was claimed this would obviously be bad news for Mbonambi but also possibly create division amongst team. SA make a big show of unity etc so if something untoward was actually said it probably won't be well received by anyone.

Anyway, let's hope for good of game it was a misunderstanding.

If it was a call you would think someone in the squad would pass comment on what it sounded like to most English speaking people? Unless it was used intentionally for that purpose to give them a get out of trouble excuse