England's Winter of Cricket 2023/24

First topic message reminder :

After the disappointment of the World Cup, can England be the first away team in 11 years to win a test series in India?

Three ODIs v West Indies (3rd December-9th December)
Five T20s v West Indies (12th December-21st December)
Five Tests v India (25th January-11th March)

from an Indian POV Bharat playing the A game means Dhruv Jurel has been kept safely aside as the WK that will play in T1
Good, and I say that without having seen Jurel, but he can't be worse than Bharat.
Jurel made his name by making useful 15s and 18s and 20s in end overs of IPL with only 5 to 10 balls to play.
Just like Rinku singh extreme talent is finding a way to shine with barely 5 to 10 balls to play
IPL limelight got his Ranji team UP to play him as their first choice WK where he did well.
He credits Samson and especially Jos Bhaiyya ( Brother Butler) for mentorship, support & morale boosting at Rajasthan Royals.

Rajat Patidar is 3 months short of 31, no spring chicken, worked his way thru Ranji grind, caught selector's eye thru his brilliance in IPL and broke into A side
Has cracked back to back 100s and will edge out Sarfaraz as soon as a test or ODI slot opens up.

India has not exposed Lions to its A or even B grade spinners.....playing spinners totally unheard of & yet Manav Sutaar impressed in both games.
Though selectors have unleashed their top fast bowlers and seam bowling allrounders in their endeavor to find replacements for Siraj, Bumrah and Shami and seam bowlers who can bat a bit

Lions set Ind 490 to chase in 140 overs and have them 2 down for 10
Potts 4 overs, 4 maidens and 2 wkts and this after he finished with 4-for in first inning.

Must be very heartening for Eng to have Potts & Fischer available in India and in such form.

Eng should focus on their strength and Indian weakness...i.e good quality seam bowling instead of mediocre spinners

sarfaraz made only 55 in 2nd inning
needed to smack an unbeaten double 100 to win or save the game, and to come into national selection reckoning. The charge against him is that he does not get big runs in BIG games and tough situations
Sudarshan n.o as Ind are 159-4 and have full day to bat to save the game tomm

It would be very rare for Ind-A to lose a home test

Ind need 200 to win with 5 wickets in hand or about 40 overs to survive . Callum parkinson has 5 for the game so far.

If bharat bats thru to end to save the game  he will end up playing the test match.
Suthaar meanwhile has hung around for a 150 balls it seems.

Stung by this lackluster show selectors have put forward the real A side for 2nd and 3rd test
Mulani  , Washington will make it an imposing spin attack with suthaar already there.
And Arshdeep,Tilak, Rinku mske it a very strong  squad

KP_fan wrote:Ind need 200 to win with 5 wickets in hand or about 40 overs to survive . Callum parkinson has 5 for the game so far.

If bharat bats thru to end to save the game  he will end up playing the test match.
Suthaar meanwhile has hung around for a 150 balls it seems.

Stung by this lackluster show selectors have put forward the real A side for 2nd and 3rd test
Mulani  , Washington will make it an imposing spin attack with suthaar already there.
And Arshdeep,Tilak, Rinku mske it a very strong  squad

Cricinfo says 61 overs to survive or 267 to win... but anyway I note the changes for the remaining matches : seems they are less bothered about giving England's reserve bats (Jennings , Lees , Bohannon) a chance to encounter the serious spin strength India possesses...

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKE1219503
167 to win , 5 wkts in hand and max 32 overs
I would be happy if Ind A eek out a draw
BBC is updating scorecard ball by ball at this link.
CI updates every 30 to 60 min

Now it must be Tea

Cricinfo seems to be frozen at the lunch score...

BBC shows this remarkable sixth wicket partnership has the India A side needing just 127 now. Not sure how many overs left. Bharat must be doing his chances no harm here ?

Ind batted 42 overs yesterday
Total innings overs now 109
That means 67 overs bowled
Means 23 overs to go
120 odd needed...Suthaar and Bharat came together before lunch...win out of question but a draw with unbeaten ton would propel Bharat immediately into playing 11

About 15 overs....an hour of play, 89 runs to win and 5 wkts left in hand

13 overs to get 86 with two set batsmen at the crease.

They should go for it. Don't get many chances to chase down 490!

Match drawn with about 6 to 7 overs to go according to my calculations
They should have played enuf to let Suthaar get a deserving 100 atleats .
A brilliant rear guard from suthaar and Bharat batting 2 sessions reminiscent of Vihari and Ashwin at Adelaide .
ENG lions should take heart from the fact that they were not bowled out in either innings out batted , out seam bowled and matched India in spin bowling.

Closer look at scorecard shows Ind put Lions in on winning the toss. .
Why would you do that?
Only if you have perceptions of pitch being saam friendly ...(and then concede 550-8d)
I think it was one of what in India Is called a Sporting pitch I.e I am sporting  enuf to give you a pitch that does not spin and might assists seam ....
Except that it went flat.
Although English seamrs did extract a lot more. It should also be heartening rhag they have Fischer, Pott and Cullum in India with match form under their belt.
It's a 5 test series and initial squads not likely to ne sufficient.

Shaken and rattled Indans have brought their real A side for next games
And pitches would have generous support for spinners you would imagine for the next 2 tests

Harry Brook pulls out of India series for personal reasons.
The entire 5 test series
A bit weird

Hope all is well for him and his family

Well, s**t.

Obviously don't know what's happened. The ECB statement originally said 'he will not be returning to India', but that has now been removed, so he might play a part later on?

Hoping it's not a Trescothick-type situation, but I can't see what else it could be. All the best to him and his family, whatever it is. Cricket is just a game.

Lawrence is the squad replacement, though I guess for the actual XI both Bairstow and Foakes will now play.

Incredibly disruptive in line with Duty's post.

My immediate reaction on reading the ECB's statement flagging his family - ''The Brook family respectfully request privacy'' - was that it was less likely to be a Trescothick-type situation and more a health or relationship issue concerning someone close to him. Anyway, I don't know and just from a cricket perspective, the key thing for England is that he ain't there (at least for now).

Slightly surprised that England have turned to Lawrence as the Lions are already in India with several of them (Jennings, Lees and Bohannon) in the runs. There again, Lawrence is probably seen from past experience as a reliable stand in for the squad and someone who can be relied upon not to rock the boat if not chosen in the Test eleven.

I certainly don't see Lawrence playing in Thursday's opener and, like Duty, expect Foakes to keep wicket with Bairstow playing as a specialist batter. I doubt Foakes would have got the nod if Brook had still been there but that's something we'll probably never know.

A real blow for England (and obviously I hope for Brook's sake whatever is the issue has a good resolution) . One of the reasons I am less pessimistic than most on here is that I feel the England batting is much stronger than three years ago and may be capable of putting real pressure on India's fine bowlers : but Brook was a big part of that so I might have to dial down that optimism a bit...

Lawrence seems a sensible addition - think I'd have had him in the original party rather than a fourth spinner who is unlikely to be used : Jennings is more potential cover for the top three and is in India anyway so can be added later if required. Don't expect Lawrence to play the first game but maybe later ... And if he does he provides a handy extra spin option. He's no Brook with the bat though.

Look it is definitely bad news all round , can't deny. Just have to hope for the best for the individual and the team.

Duty281 wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/12/04/rehan-ahmed-brother-farhan-england-world-cup-squad-u19/

Forget about Rehan Ahmed, it's all about Farhan Ahmed. The 15-year-old younger brother of Rehan has been picked for the England U19s World Cup squad. Many believe him to have greater potential than Rehan.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-under-19-world-cup-2023-24-1399722/england-under-19s-vs-scotland-under-19s-4th-match-group-b-1399727/full-scorecard

England's U19 World Cup campaign started yesterday with a comfortable win over Scotland. Farhan Ahmed, still a month away from turning 16, led the bowling figures with 3/22 from his ten overs.

Duty281 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/12/04/rehan-ahmed-brother-farhan-england-world-cup-squad-u19/

Forget about Rehan Ahmed, it's all about Farhan Ahmed. The 15-year-old younger brother of Rehan has been picked for the England U19s World Cup squad. Many believe him to have greater potential than Rehan.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-under-19-world-cup-2023-24-1399722/england-under-19s-vs-scotland-under-19s-4th-match-group-b-1399727/full-scorecard

England's U19 World Cup campaign started yesterday with a comfortable win over Scotland. Farhan Ahmed, still a month away from turning 16, led the bowling figures with 3/22 from his ten overs.

Get him to India.

Brook would be a big loss to the genre of Bazballing , but cricket is a small element in the big scheme of life, family, health and relationships
Hope things will be OK and Brook can be back....he is a very exciting game changer.

I have liked the look of Dan Lawrence when I saw him on the last tour of India.
His test average of 26 and more importantly FC average of only 36 over 118 games indicates the talent pool is relatively smaller in Eng and you get a much longer run to prove yourself.
Keaton Jennings too made debut against Ind and got a 100 also, hasn't established himself and yet in the running.

Unlike Ind who will go with 3 spinners+2 seamers.
Eng aught to play 3 seamers + Leach+ a spinner who can bat and prepare Root to bowl 15 overs in the test match

It's a double whammy in terms of loss for the series with Rishabh already out. Brook and Pant are two of the most exciting batting talents in the game. Such a shame.

That unshakeable sense of pessimism I have for this series has just got a bit deeper.

Kohli out for first two tests for unspecified personal reasons

In another chapter of You Couldn't Make It Up, England have arrived in India minus Shoaib Bashir.

The young spinner is stuck in Abu Dhabi (where England had their training camp before this series) waiting for his visa to enter India to be processed. Although born in Surrey, Bashir's parents are from Pakistan which apparently makes the bureaucracy extra lengthy.

The build up is mad.

Kohli's loss is a shame for India, though shouldn't be a big one. Whoever is in charge of England's logistics has dropped the ball with regards to Bashir. This should have been known about, as Pakistan had visa issues when entering India for the recent World Cup.

So, what are our series predictions then?

Series Score: 4-1 India
India's top runscorer: Iyer
India's top wicket taker: Axar
England's top runscorer: Root
England's top wicket taker: Robinson (if he stays fit!)

Series: 3-1 India
India top runscorer: Rohit
India top wicket taker: Ashwin
England top runscorer: Root
England top wicket taker: Leach

I reckon we'll see an absolute road later in the series once it's wrapped up for the hosts. Hence predicting 1 draw.

Rohit is getting on but he is fantastic at home and generally scores runs against England. I also have a feeling that on Bunsens we may see England bowl the seamers too much early on with the Indian openers making hay. I tend to feel that when England go abroad they often use the medium-fast seamers too much first up in certain conditions. Suckered into thinking, "it only swings and seams for a few overs so we have to make the most of it". Then before we know it, the opposition openers have raced to 60-0 from 12 overs, whilst we focus on a couple beating the outside edge that barely carried anyway.

I'm really interested to see how Axar develops from here. Early on he had the huge advantage of creating an angle that the batters hadn't really faced. His height, huge wing span and width on the crease meant he had that massive angle into RHs from around the wicket. That angle in was so extreme that even when turning the ball away from the bat appreciably it was still angling into the stumps - a great article on that below.

https://deeppoint.substack.com/p/understanding-axar-patel-angular

Now batters know that, they should cover their inside edge more to Axar though. Which could reduce those LBWs he was getting. Whilst we also saw England's aggressive approach massively knock Scott Boland over the summer. He is a seamer who's strength was landing it on one spot. By using their feet and being more aggressive, England knocked Boland off that spot and he really struggled. I think Axar is a comparatively better spinner than Boland is a seamer, but, his strength is also hitting that one spot. Could the aggressive approach have a bigger effect on Axar than Ashwin and Jadeja? The issue is he's so difficult to sweep due to this height. I'd guess England will come down the wicket to him a lot early in the series. It might be disastrous.

Duty281 wrote:So, what are our series predictions then?

Series Score: 4-1 India
India's top runscorer: Iyer
India's top wicket taker: Axar
England's top runscorer: Root
England's top wicket taker: Robinson (if he stays fit!)

Series 3-0 or 4-0
There will be one or two Patta pitches with 1500 runs scored in about 3 innings

India
top runs Jaiswal
Top wickets Jadeja

Eng
Top runs
Foakes
Top wickets jack Leach

Kohli out for personal reasons too ? Hope this isn't too serious - doesn't seem to be since his absence is apparently limited to the first two games only. Does rather balance the loss of Brook for England .

Delayed arrival for young Bashir no big deal. Surely won't be a long hold up - and he certainly wasn't going to play on Thursday !

Not game/mad enough to make any predictions before we see some action.(And lacking any real clue as to the pitches we are going to see) India obviously strong favourites at home , but ...... this is the new world of Bazball.

What I am hoping for is some tightly contested matches - whatever the actual result. Content to wait and see...

Dravid says he expects the T1 pitch at Hyderabad to turn.
I read the good length areas are very dry....and then I saw it's almost 2 colored pitch
https://twitter.com/MollahShamim165/status/1749400998848692566?t=nW7OBM8I77QpoCxm2Bqi3Q&s=19
Dark in good length areas and light brownish/orangish elsewhere.

alfie wrote:Kohli out for personal reasons too ?  Hope this isn't too serious - doesn't seem to be since his absence is apparently limited to the first two games only.  Does rather balance the loss of Brook for England .

Delayed arrival for young Bashir no big deal. Surely won't be a long hold up - and he certainly wasn't going to play on Thursday !

Not game/mad enough to make any predictions before we see some action.(And lacking any real clue as to the pitches we are going to see)  India obviously strong favourites at home , but ...... this is the new world of Bazball.

What I am hoping for is some tightly contested matches - whatever the actual result. Content to wait and see...

Bashir currently remains stuck in the UAE despite the necessary paperwork apparently being submitted to the Indian authorities the same day he was chosen for the tour. I agree with Alfie that he was never going to play on Thursday and posted previously that he shouldn't have been selected for this Test squad. However, that doesn't stop me from siding strongly with George Dobell that it will be very wrong if his delayed appearance (or even non appearance) prevents England selecting their side from their full contingent.

Things could still kick off and would surely understandably have done so already if Bashir were a bigger name.

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:Kohli out for personal reasons too ?  Hope this isn't too serious - doesn't seem to be since his absence is apparently limited to the first two games only.  Does rather balance the loss of Brook for England .

Delayed arrival for young Bashir no big deal. Surely won't be a long hold up - and he certainly wasn't going to play on Thursday !

Not game/mad enough to make any predictions before we see some action.(And lacking any real clue as to the pitches we are going to see)  India obviously strong favourites at home , but ...... this is the new world of Bazball.

What I am hoping for is some tightly contested matches - whatever the actual result. Content to wait and see...

Bashir currently remains stuck in the UAE despite the necessary paperwork apparently being submitted to the Indian authorities the same day he was chosen for the tour. I agree with Alfie that he was never going to play on Thursday and posted previously that he shouldn't have been selected for this Test squad. However, that doesn't stop me from siding strongly with George Dobell that it will be very wrong if his delayed appearance (or even non appearance) prevents England selecting their side from their full contingent.

Things could still kick off and would surely understandably have done so already if Bashir were a bigger name.

Indian authorities did the same to Khwaja because of his Pak links
There is an anti-muslim ideological regime in India that borders on harassing Muslim / Pakistani origin.
Whether he plays or not is visiting sides prerogative.....they should not lose their right to choose whoever they want.
English board should have simply notified BCCI they will not be ready to play the first test if all player don't leave together.
Trust me, the visa would have magically appeared in a few hours

Dravid has confirmed Rahul will not keep, so one of Bharat or Jurel will have the gloves.

Duty281 wrote:The build up is mad.

Kohli's loss is a shame for India, though shouldn't be a big one. Whoever is in charge of England's logistics has dropped the ball with regards to Bashir. This should have been known about, as Pakistan had visa issues when entering India for the recent World Cup.

Bashir's visa was applied for two hours after he was announced in the squad - I agree with KP_F, the ECB and others need to be stronger with the Indian government/BCCI in future, this is a total nonsense and total shambles for the poor young kid, as it was Pakistan and Khawaja beforehand.

Of course, nothing will happen though

Cricinfo reporting England likely to go with three spinners plus a seamer for the first test, with the pitch likely to be similar to what Australia saw in their series and expected to spin from day one.

That would make a likely XI;

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ahmed
Wood
Leach
Hartley

So All set for the series to get going. But with Kohli and Brook missing out to start with, and someone like Rishabh Pant not yet ready to be considered.
Hope India don't get lulled by the recent runs KS Bharat got, he's not a test level bat, and his keeping, while good, isn't extraordinary... Shame Kishan is yet not made himself available for selection. Would like to see Jurel being given an opportunity. With Kohli unavailable, think they'll have KL at 4 and Shreyas at 5. There were indications earlier that Iyer may have missed out. That'd have been a poor decision, as he's one of the best players of spin in India, and KL hasn't been as good against spin as such. KL should be picked only to keep wickets or as first reserve bat. But keeping to Ashwin and Jadeja in spinning conditions isn't the same as keeping to the quicks in away conditions. Don't think KL has the experience to keep in India for a 5 test series. Kohli's unavailability makes the discussions pointless, but come the 3rd test, Rahul should play only if he has solid runs in the first 2 games.
The other talking point for India should be about the identity of the 3rd spinner. Axar Patel was terrible with the ball in the Australia series. He did a fabulous job with the bat, but he needed to deliver more with the ball. Kuldeep Yadav has rediscovered himself, and can be a very fine test bowler across conditions if he gets it right. Now that he's in the squad, think he should be given the first go for the 3rd spinner's slot... But if they end up picking KS Bharat, of course Axar in at 7, batting ahead of Bharat.
Rohit
Jaiswal
Gill
Rahul
Iyer
Jadeja
Jurel
Ashwin
Kuldeep
Bumrah
Siraj

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The build up is mad.

Kohli's loss is a shame for India, though shouldn't be a big one. Whoever is in charge of England's logistics has dropped the ball with regards to Bashir. This should have been known about, as Pakistan had visa issues when entering India for the recent World Cup.

Bashir's visa was applied for two hours after he was announced in the squad - I agree with KP_F, the ECB and others need to be stronger with the Indian government/BCCI in future, this is a total nonsense and total shambles for the poor young kid, as it was Pakistan and Khawaja beforehand.

Of course, nothing will happen though

Fair. Entirely India's fault then.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Cricinfo reporting England likely to go with three spinners plus a seamer for the first test, with the pitch likely to be similar to what Australia saw in their series and expected to spin from day one.

That would make a likely XI;

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ahmed
Wood
Leach
Hartley

So it's a spinning lottery pitch, over in three days, or England have misread it! I think a spin-heavy surface, and very low scores, gives England more of a chance because then it only requires one knock of 40/50/60/70 to turn the game, and it closes the gap between India's excellent spinners and England's more mediocre ones with all that spin assistance.

Even if it is a spinning lottery pitch, I wouldn't go for three spinners. I'd go for two and let Root, who can be useful, do the work of the third. Placing the entire pace burden on Wood is a gamble, unless they think Stokes can send down a few overs?

But it does throw up Bashir's absence. He may have played in this test over Hartley? What a farce. I've heard he's returned to the UK to try and speed up the process, but won't get to India until the weekend. Disgrace.

msp83 wrote:So All set for the series to get going. But with Kohli and Brook missing out to start with, and someone like Rishabh Pant not yet ready to be considered.
Hope India don't get lulled by the recent runs KS Bharat got, he's not a test level bat, and his keeping, while good, isn't extraordinary... Shame Kishan is yet not made himself available for selection. Would like to see Jurel being given an opportunity. With Kohli unavailable, think they'll have KL at 4 and Shreyas at 5. There were indications earlier that Iyer may have missed out. That'd have been a poor decision, as he's one of the best players of spin in India, and KL hasn't been as good against spin as such. KL should be picked only to keep wickets or as first reserve bat. But keeping to Ashwin and Jadeja in spinning conditions isn't the same as keeping to the quicks in away conditions. Don't think KL has the experience to keep in India for a 5 test series. Kohli's unavailability makes the discussions pointless, but come the 3rd test, Rahul should play only if he has solid runs in the first 2 games.
The other talking point for India should be about the identity of the 3rd spinner. Axar Patel was terrible with the ball in the Australia series. He did a fabulous job with the bat, but he needed to deliver more with the ball. Kuldeep Yadav has rediscovered himself, and can be a very fine test bowler across conditions if he gets it right. Now that he's in the squad, think he should be given the first go for the 3rd spinner's slot... But if they end up picking KS Bharat, of course Axar in at 7, batting ahead of Bharat.
Rohit
Jaiswal
Gill
Rahul
Iyer
Jadeja
Jurel
Ashwin
Kuldeep
Bumrah
Siraj

Hi msp,
some observations on your comments

1. I too was worried about Axar's bowling form vs Aus and then in Asia cup...he was too side arm.
he had recovered to his peak as I saw vs Aus  T20is first and then at his peak vs Afg....his arm is going as high as he ever did.....and delivering the ball high and gotten his occasional spin back
Axar will play for sure and he is bowling well and might end up being among top-scorers for India

2. The WK slots has been used by Team management ot drive their agenda to somehow get their boy KL in
so they did not let Ishan play vs Aus in tests and in WTC and kept him largely out of limited overs...fearing that if he bats too well....KL will become dispensable
now with some runs they believe KL can be pushed as a batter...you are right.......he struggles against slow bowling and may not be WK material on square turners
BUT
if he fails as a batter...they will spin a story to bring him in as a WK in T3

3. on WKs Ishan would have been great...and I hope they play Jurel.....Bharat is a medicore WK and a poor batter...but he delivered a defiant 100 and dedicated it to Lord Ram retrospectively ....so he has to be played.

Axar-7, Ashwin-8 and Bharat-9 will be the line-up

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Cricinfo reporting England likely to go with three spinners plus a seamer for the first test, with the pitch likely to be similar to what Australia saw in their series and expected to spin from day one.

That would make a likely XI;

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ahmed
Wood
Leach
Hartley

So it's a spinning lottery pitch, over in three days, or England have misread it! I think a spin-heavy surface, and very low scores, gives England more of a chance because then it only requires one knock of 40/50/60/70 to turn the game, and it closes the gap between India's excellent spinners and England's more mediocre ones with all that spin assistance.

Even if it is a spinning lottery pitch, I wouldn't go for three spinners. I'd go for two and let Root, who can be useful, do the work of the third. Placing the entire pace burden on Wood is a gamble, unless they think Stokes can send down a few overs?

But it does throw up Bashir's absence. He may have played in this test over Hartley? What a farce. I've heard he's returned to the UK to try and speed up the process, but won't get to India until the weekend. Disgrace.

If they do go three spinners, I think Bashir would have played. Offie, leggie and SLA is the balance they have gone with in Sri Lanka in the past with Moeen, Leach and Rashid so would have tried that again. I think Bashir or Hartley will get hammered so it is irrelevant but I do think he would have played.

The latest rumours are that Bashir wasn't denied entry due to his Pakistani ancestry. It was actually because he was watching the CWC final on his phone and laughing like a teenager seeing Anchorman for the first time at the sight of the BCCI s**t tipping themselves out of a world cup they dominated.

The Bashir situation indeed reflects poorly on Indian administration ; but it is what it is so pointless to speculate about might have beens...

Agree with Duty that three spinners - with Root already there anyway - looks excessive. (Granted I haven't yet seen a close up of the pitch !) If they were to play just one seamer , which one ? Anderson , 41 ; Robinson , with a dodgy fitness record ; or Wood who often seems to be inches away from another breakdown ? Suppose if they are really desperate for extra spin options they could always include Lawrence as one of the batsmen...

I see our Indian correspondents have differing views on the home team's final XI . With that , and the choices available to England , the announcement of the teams at the toss will be as interesting as the result of the coin flip.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:So All set for the series to get going. But with Kohli and Brook missing out to start with, and someone like Rishabh Pant not yet ready to be considered.
Hope India don't get lulled by the recent runs KS Bharat got, he's not a test level bat, and his keeping, while good, isn't extraordinary... Shame Kishan is yet not made himself available for selection. Would like to see Jurel being given an opportunity. With Kohli unavailable, think they'll have KL at 4 and Shreyas at 5. There were indications earlier that Iyer may have missed out. That'd have been a poor decision, as he's one of the best players of spin in India, and KL hasn't been as good against spin as such. KL should be picked only to keep wickets or as first reserve bat. But keeping to Ashwin and Jadeja in spinning conditions isn't the same as keeping to the quicks in away conditions. Don't think KL has the experience to keep in India for a 5 test series. Kohli's unavailability makes the discussions pointless, but come the 3rd test, Rahul should play only if he has solid runs in the first 2 games.
The other talking point for India should be about the identity of the 3rd spinner. Axar Patel was terrible with the ball in the Australia series. He did a fabulous job with the bat, but he needed to deliver more with the ball. Kuldeep Yadav has rediscovered himself, and can be a very fine test bowler across conditions if he gets it right. Now that he's in the squad, think he should be given the first go for the 3rd spinner's slot... But if they end up picking KS Bharat, of course Axar in at 7, batting ahead of Bharat.
Rohit
Jaiswal
Gill
Rahul
Iyer
Jadeja
Jurel
Ashwin
Kuldeep
Bumrah
Siraj

Hi msp,
some observations on your comments

1. I too was worried about Axar's bowling form vs Aus and then in Asia cup...he was too side arm.
he had recovered to his peak as I saw vs Aus  T20is first and then at his peak vs Afg....his arm is going as high as he ever did.....and delivering the ball high and gotten his occasional spin back
Axar will play for sure and he is bowling well and might end up being among top-scorers for India

2. The WK slots has been used by Team management ot drive their agenda to somehow get their boy KL in
so they did not let Ishan play vs Aus in tests and in WTC and kept him largely out of limited overs...fearing that if he bats too well....KL will become dispensable
now with some runs they believe KL can be pushed as a batter...you are right.......he struggles against slow bowling and may not be WK material on square turners
BUT
if he fails as a batter...they will spin a story to bring him in as a WK in T3

3. on WKs Ishan would have been great...and I hope they play Jurel.....Bharat is a medicore WK and a poor batter...but he delivered a defiant 100 and dedicated it to Lord Ram retrospectively ....so he has to be played.

Axar-7, Ashwin-8 and Bharat-9 will be the line-up

Hi KPF,
I too see elements of favoritism towards KL as far as the management is concerned. He has been given a very, very long rope indeed. He's test class for sure, and can play the type of innings he played in SA recently. But he's way too inconsistent, and isn't the best against spin. Don't think they sidelined Ishan in SA deliberately, but what happened before that may have had an impact on him. So much so that he's not even ready to come back to cricket even at the domestic level. Axar, Ashwin and Bharat should indeed be the order, but I feel they'll go for Bharat, Axar and Ashwin instead. Some nonsense like not wanting 2 left-handers to come in consecutively or something!

Stokes did hint at Wood being the led and possibly only seamer for the first test. Think it'll be a bad idea for England. Udal, Giles, Moeen, and of course Swann and Panesar did have some success in India, but the likes of Hogard, Anderson and even Stokes did contribute significantly and more decisively, and the very mediocre slow bowlers they brought in have had not much impact.
They should go for
Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ahmed
Wood
Leach
Anderson

Anderson has been among the most impactful visiting seamers in India. India would surely be happier to see an England team without him rather than the other way. He's 41, didn't have the best of form of late, but for the first test at least, I'd pick him over Robinson and partner Wood. Joe Root has to be among the better parttime bowlers going around, while he's not a led spinner material, he'll be a decent 3rd spinner option, as OK as anyone else they have to offer from the squad.

Hartley, Ahmed and Leach all play, Wood the only seamer. Says a lot about how this pitch is expected to play then

GSC wrote:Hartley, Ahmed and Leach all play, Wood the only seamer. Says a lot about how this pitch is expected to play then

Indeed. They must be very sure this is going be a real spindizzy. Bit unusual for them to confirm the XI early but they must be happy with it : Hartley with a debut that possibly wasn't looking likely even when the squad was picked.

Bit of a challenge for two young spinners with one Test between them . Hope Ahmed is ready to also take on the task of batting at number eight in what looks a rather fragile tail !

If England have read the pitch correctly, with prodigious turn from the off, then we can expect the test to not go beyond lunch on day three. I'm worried it'll be further damaging to the state of test cricket, after the recent farce in South Africa and the likely smashing of the West Indies in the day-nighter.

It does bring England into the game more, however. Australia of course managed a test win, that looked otherwise unlikely, on a spinning lottery pitch - scores of 109/197/163/78 for 1 in that game. If the pitch is something similar to that then England have a chance, although I'd still expect an Indian win. A normal Indian pitch, I feel, would have exposed the weakness in England's spinners.

Duty281 wrote:If England have read the pitch correctly, with prodigious turn from the off, then we can expect the test to not go beyond lunch on day three. I'm worried it'll be further damaging to the state of test cricket, after the recent farce in South Africa and the likely smashing of the West Indies in the day-nighter.

It does bring England into the game more, however. Australia of course managed a test win, that looked otherwise unlikely, on a spinning lottery pitch - scores of 109/197/163/78 for 1 in that game. If the pitch is something similar to that then England have a chance, although I'd still expect an Indian win. A normal Indian pitch, I feel, would have exposed the weakness in England's spinners.

Very much my take on this too. If it really is a crazy "lottery" pitch anything could possibly happen - but Tests that finish in two and a bit days max aren't really good for the game.

Guess we shouldn't go jumping at shadows yet though. Let us see how it actually plays on day one before getting too excited. But if India name four spinners and leave out Siraj I might be covering my eyes

msp83 wrote:Stokes did hint at Wood being the led and possibly only seamer for the first test. Think it'll be a bad idea for England. Udal, Giles, Moeen, and of course Swann and Panesar did have some success in India, but the likes of Hogard, Anderson and even Stokes did contribute significantly and more decisively, and the very mediocre slow bowlers they brought in have had not much impact.
They should go for
Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Ahmed
Wood
Leach
Anderson

Hi msp - yes, that's the eleven I was fully expecting after Brook dropped out.

The team seems fine to me, any bowling combination has quite a degree of hope attached to it. If it's a snakepit then England have a chance either way. If innings last a decent amount of time, the thought of the fragile Wood and 41 year old Anderson returning for their 5th or 6th spell isn't worth contemplating