England's Winter of Cricket 2023/24

First topic message reminder :

After the disappointment of the World Cup, can England be the first away team in 11 years to win a test series in India?

Three ODIs v West Indies (3rd December-9th December)
Five T20s v West Indies (12th December-21st December)
Five Tests v India (25th January-11th March)

alfie wrote:

We have yet to see how well Leach pulls up so England are also likely to have a bit of thinking to do about their lineup for the second game.  Throw in the usual " what will the pitch be like" business and we will have plenty to speculate about for the next couple of days

yup shifting focus to Eng....McCullum has said he will go with four spinner + Root in vizag
So Bashir for wood then ?
And strapped up Leach will play and bowl short spells to whatever extent he can

McCullum said that they "could" go for an all spin attack, not that they will. They "could" also pick no spinners by the same logic!

Playing Bashir for Rehan would weaken the lower order batting that was so important to the T1 win. On the other hand, I think Bashir's finger spin may well be better suited to Indian conditions.

1.Crawley 2.Duckett 3.Pope 4.Root 5.Bairstow 6.Stokes 7.Foakes 8.Robinson 9.Hartley 10.Leach/Bashir 11.Anderson/Wood

I'm expecting something like that. With Leach/Bashir based on fitness and Anderson/Wood based on the pitch. Wood didn't bowl many overs so they might wind him up to go again as the high pace option. Anderson offers the control they lacked in India's 1st innings though.

I might actually support three spinners and Anderson for the next test, because I am expecting it to turn sharply from the off. It's what India got the pitches to do last time after England won the first test, and it resulted in three big Indian victories, so why adjust from their perspective?

All spin would be madness though! Anderson would be a great option for the control element, plus he does go well in India. I'm expecting Bashir to make his debut, either at the expense of an injured Leach or, if Leach is fit, Rehan.

Anyone clocked the name of the ground? Dr YS Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium. Goodness! Rohit made 176 and 127, while Ashwin took 8 wickets, the last time a test was played at this ground, back in 2019 against South Africa.

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:

We have yet to see how well Leach pulls up so England are also likely to have a bit of thinking to do about their lineup for the second game.  Throw in the usual " what will the pitch be like" business and we will have plenty to speculate about for the next couple of days

yup shifting focus to Eng....McCullum has said he will go with four spinner + Root in vizag
So Bashir for wood then ?
And strapped up Leach will play and bowl short spells to whatever extent he can

That is not quite what McCullum said...

He made it clear that Bashir is going to be in consideration - like the rest of the squad. He also indicated England could indeed pick as many as four spinners (or " a balance of what we've got" - meaning who is fit ?) at some point - if conditions made that tempting. In other words - all options are open. Or "keep 'em guessing".

Given the way England have been prepared to make a number of unusual - and sometimes hotly debated - selection choices over the last couple of years I think we always have to be prepared for surprises.

king_carlos wrote:McCullum said that they "could" go for an all spin attack, not that they will. They "could" also pick no spinners by the same logic!

Playing Bashir for Rehan would weaken the lower order batting that was so important to the T1 win. On the other hand, I think Bashir's finger spin may well be better suited to Indian conditions.

1.Crawley 2.Duckett 3.Pope 4.Root 5.Bairstow 6.Stokes 7.Foakes 8.Robinson 9.Hartley 10.Leach/Bashir 11.Anderson/Wood

I'm expecting something like that. With Leach/Bashir based on fitness and Anderson/Wood based on the pitch. Wood didn't bowl many overs so they might wind him up to go again as the high pace option. Anderson offers the control they lacked in India's 1st innings though.

Yes I think that XI - with those couple of alternates - is quite likely. (Though I haven't seen the pitch yet !) I would actually lean towards Anderson over Wood particularly if Leach had to miss out as I think with the two inexperienced spinners on board his control would be even more important.

But am happy to leave it to Baz and Ben

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:
Rohit
Jaiswal
Gill
Sarfaraz
Iyer
Washington
Axar
Bharat
Ashwin
Kuldeep
Bumrah

Why Sarfaraz msp and not Patidar as the later was picked ahead in the Peking order.
And Patidar can bat at 3 , drop Gill down to 4.
Yes going by Peking order kuldeep Plays ahead of  Saurabh and won't let Jadeja's absence be felt.
From what I have  seen of Saurabh....he is different from jadeja but will be equally effective on spinning pitch....he imparts far more revs and Zipp.....almost a SLA version of Warne

Sarfaraz's record demands that he be given an opportunity. And He is a good player of spin, and can make really big runs once in. Patidar really began to flourish in the last couple of seasons, isn't as consistent as Sarfaraz. There is something about Patidar's game that suggest you have to look beyond the number... I thought with Kohli unavailable, they thought it would be a good opportunity to give Patidar a bit of squad time. But now that they need one of them to step in and actually play, think they should give Sarfaraz the go.

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:
Rohit
Jaiswal
Gill
Sarfaraz
Iyer
Washington
Axar
Bharat
Ashwin
Kuldeep
Bumrah

Why Sarfaraz msp and not Patidar as the later was picked ahead in the Peking order.
And Patidar can bat at 3 , drop Gill down to 4.
Yes going by Peking order kuldeep Plays ahead of  Saurabh and won't let Jadeja's absence be felt.
From what I have  seen of Saurabh....he is different from jadeja but will be equally effective on spinning pitch....he imparts far more revs and Zipp.....almost a SLA version of Warne

Sarfaraz's record demands that he be given an opportunity. And He is a good player of spin, and can make really big runs once in. Patidar really began to flourish in the last couple of seasons, isn't as consistent as Sarfaraz. There is something about Patidar's game that suggest you have to look beyond the number... I thought with Kohli unavailable, they thought it would be a good opportunity to give Patidar a bit of squad time. But now that they need one of them to step in and actually play, think they should give Sarfaraz the go.

The route to selection into a nation side is to deliver an eye catching performance in one or more of following
1- Irani Trophy
2- IPL ( like it or not, it counts)
3- India A games

Ranji performance alone is not enuf to get a national call...it gets you chances in one or more of the above where you should deliver.
and Patidar delivered on counts 1 &2  and made it to the squad ahead of Sarfaraz
Dravid follows a fair procedure and going by that patidar should play.

Moreover personally I am not convinced with Sarfaraz......he has done his runs batting at No. 5 and bashing the daylight out of HP, services  and Assam type sides.
Flopped in SA-A games, in IPL and in two consecutive Irani trophies.

PS*
Kolkata telegraph , which generally gets inside news thru Ganguly / Boria channels said quoting sources that Patidar & Kuldep inclusion is a given
Final decision to be made between Washington & Srafaraz.

That Scan shows Jadeja has a niggle in the hamstring and will be back for T3
KL has done his quadriceps , which was the initial problem that has kept him out for long...and it seems out for the series

Pundits on Patidar and Patidar vs Sarfaraz
https://www.business-standard.com/cricket/news/rajat-patidar-fine-blend-of-domestic-cricket-grind-and-ipl-temperament-124012400726_1.html


The 30-year-old Patidar's maiden entry into the Indian Test team is, however, a testament to the country's superb domestic structure that produces battle-hardened professionals and rewards them for the consistency and temperament.
Whether earning plaudits from the country's most successful domestic coach Chandrakant Pandit while playing Ranji Trophy for Madhya Pradesh or looking the part while having Virat Kohli at the other end in pressure IPL games, Patidar has proved at every level and unlikely to disappoint when it matters the most.

So, what makes Patidar special as compared to some of his other domestic contemporaries who were also in contention? Vijay Dahiya, who has seen enough of Indian domestic talent as first-class and IPL coach as well as a broadcaster, explains it in simple terms.
"Rajat knows how to make big hundreds. It is one thing having the hunger but completely different while executing the plan. If someone is scoring 151 out of a team's total of 227 (India A vs England Lions), he is an above average player," Dahiya told PTI while trying to explain Patidar's batting.
"He has a lot of time while playing bowlers in the 140-click range. Because he sees the ball early and plays it late." What makes batters who have that extra millisecond special is their ability to have a wide range of strokes in their repertoire.

Someone can have two strokes for a similar delivery and Patidar is believed to be one.
He isn't very tall but an upright stance and firm knowledge of where his off-stump is makes him a cut above rest.
While Patidar has an average of 45 plus with 4000 runs in 54 first-class games in nine years, his closest competitor Sarfaraz Khan, four years his junior, scored at nearly 68 plus runs per game.
But then why is Rajat considered way better than Sarfaraz? "If I try to read Ajit Agarkar-led panel's mind, they looked at a whole lot of variables. One of the things would be comfort against fast bowling. I think Rajat is much ahead of Sarfaraz over there. Just take the Lions game. Rajat scored a Daddy Hundred when others failed. Sarfaraz scored runs in second innings when the track was at its easiest," a former national selector told PTI on conditions of anonymity.

"I agree you don't mix red ball and white ball game but IPL gives you an idea how you fare against top players. Rajat scored a hundred in IPL play-off in a tricky situation whereas Sarfaraz's struggles against quick bowling is for everyone to see," he added.

Superiority in handling Pace, rising to IPL challenge with good show including a 100 and first inning 151 out of 227 in seaming conditions while Sarfaraz scored when pitch went dead and Ind-A was miles ahead in the game.

all of those enabled Patidar's selection ahead of Sarfaraz

I do rate Patidar for sure, and wouldn't disagree that he looks a much better player of quick bowling than Sarfaraz. But England in the series, is going slow bowling heavy. Sarfaraz eats up average slow bowlers in his sleep. And he surely gets big hundreds.
I have a feeling they'll go in with both with Kuldeep coming in for Siraj. Not sure that's the best option though. Axar is only a poor man's Jadeja, can't be the consistent 2nd spinner. Kuldeep is returning to tests in a while and there is still a bit of uncertainty about him... Ashwin's already bowled a lot in the first test itself, can't afford to bowl him to the ground. And Bumrah should be left to do his thing in short sharp spells rather than containing and attacking all at the same in long spells.
All said, I have feeling they are going to go in with 6 batters, Bharat, Axar and Ashwin.

msp83 wrote:I do rate Patidar for sure, and wouldn't disagree that he looks a much better player of quick bowling than Sarfaraz. But England in the series, is going slow bowling heavy. Sarfaraz eats up average slow bowlers in his sleep. And he surely gets big hundreds.
I have a feeling they'll go in with both with Kuldeep coming in for Siraj. Not sure that's the best option though. Axar is only a poor man's Jadeja, can't be the consistent 2nd spinner. Kuldeep is returning to tests in a while and there is still a bit of uncertainty about him... Ashwin's already bowled a lot in the first test itself, can't afford to bowl him to the ground. And Bumrah should be left to do his thing in short sharp spells rather than containing and attacking all at the same in long spells.
All said, I have feeling they are going to go in with 6 batters, Bharat, Axar and Ashwin.

Nowhere did anyone say that Patidar is any poorer playing spin...and when a new player is selected they rather take one who is an all condition batter and will serve them in overseas tours also.

Patidar & Kuldeep are in....I believe.
The only variable is Washington vs Sarfaraz...according to Telegraph
I am almost certain it will be Washington...else no point in calling him in the squad.
And Washngton is a proven batsman at Test match level with a test matach batting average almost same as Sarafarz's FC average

Washington's played 4 Tests, batted 6 innings, with 2 not outs. That's an incredibly small sample size to be taking stats from.

Tom Hartley has a better Test bowling average than Ashwin or Jadeja for instance!

I rate Washington and there are obviously happy memories there for fans from that astonishing series in Australia. India winning with that side was remarkable. T Natarajan is so niche that he might not have been seen since by his family let alone in the India Test team.

Sarfaraz has an incomparable record as a batting talent though.

king_carlos wrote:Washington's played 4 Tests, batted 6 innings, with 2 not outs. That's an incredibly small sample size to be taking stats from.

Tom Hartley has a better Test bowling average than Ashwin or Jadeja for instance!

I rate Washington and there are obviously happy memories there for fans from that astonishing series in Australia. India winning with that side was remarkable. T Natarajan is so niche that he might not have been seen since by his family let alone in the India Test team.

Sarfaraz has an incomparable record as a batting talent though.

But Washington here is not being compared to Kallis or Kohli.
The point being made here is that if India wants to play an extra batsman then Washington qualifies as a  batter.
That he can bowl and Sarfaraz & Patidar cannot doesn't take away the fact that he still qualifies as a batter.

And to his international credits are half a dozen test innings vs sides no less than Aus & Eng where he averages 63ish
compared to ( not Kohli or Kallis) But Sarafraz and Patidar whose international credits are the 150+ scores they cracked vs Lions recently and a few odd 20s and 30s in A games in SA and elsewhere

Sounds from the journos on the ground that Leach is very unlikely to be fit for this test - so I'd expect just Bashir in for him I think. Maybe Anderson for Wood depending how Wood pulled up after the last test

I'd contemplate an extra bat for Renan honestly. If he's not trusted to bowl then it's a bit of a waste of a spot.

If Leach is out, then I think I'd look at playing Robinson and Anderson. Pick the two seamers who should be able to keep it tighter. Then between Rehan and Bashir for that final bowling spot. I'd be tempted to lean towards the finger spinner.

Robinson is the slight enigma there though. His F-C and Test stats are brilliant. With that high release point, accuracy and brilliant seam control he should be able to take wickets anywhere. He has been clearly unfit for Test cricket on a few occasions though. I think I'd take that gamble here given how talented he is. I could understand if the coaches and players are privately pretty frustrated with his preparation and not inclined to pick him though.

I think they will stick with Wood. Stokes and McCullum really like that high pace option. Picking Anderson and Wood without Rehan would lengthen the tail though, which was all important to the T1 win.

I don't see them picking an extra batter. Stokes puts an emphasis on wickets above all else in the field that I don't think I've seen before. He genuinely doesn't seem to care about going for runs at times if he feels they are remotely in the game to take wickets. I think he'll want at least the 4 bowlers and Root.

KP_fan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Washington's played 4 Tests, batted 6 innings, with 2 not outs. That's an incredibly small sample size to be taking stats from.

Tom Hartley has a better Test bowling average than Ashwin or Jadeja for instance!

I rate Washington and there are obviously happy memories there for fans from that astonishing series in Australia. India winning with that side was remarkable. T Natarajan is so niche that he might not have been seen since by his family let alone in the India Test team.

Sarfaraz has an incomparable record as a batting talent though.

But Washington here is not being compared to Kallis or Kohli.
The point being made here is that if India wants to play an extra batsman then Washington qualifies as a  batter.
That he can bowl and Sarfaraz & Patidar cannot doesn't take away the fact that he still qualifies as a batter.

And to his international credits are half a dozen test innings vs sides no less than Aus & Eng where he averages 63ish
compared to ( not Kohli or Kallis) But Sarafraz and Patidar whose international credits are the 150+ scores they cracked vs Lions recently and a few odd 20s and 30s in A games in SA and elsewhere

It's a ridiculously small sample size from which to take an average for Washi is my point though, KP_f. Whereas Sarfaraz's F-C record isn't a small sample size now even if it is at domestic level.

I was interested to hear Al Muthu from Cricinfo say that Washi being a leftie might elevate his chances though. Apparently there are concerns in the India camp that a batting line-up full of RH batters will allow England's bowlers to settle on a line and length.

If it's a proper s**t tip, Muthu doesn't rule out them bringing in Washington for Siraj, then playing the extra batter with Patidar and Sarfaraz playing. Sarfaraz is renowned for smashing spin so that sort of pitch would play into his strengths.

There are mixed reports on what this pitch will do though. Some saying it's a throwback subcontinent wicket that starts as an absolute road then crumbles suddenly due to the coastal sun beating down in it during play. Others saying it might be a Bunsen in response to T1. We'll see on Friday I guess.

king_carlos wrote:If Leach is out, then I think I'd look at playing Robinson and Anderson. Pick the two seamers who should be able to keep it tighter. Then between Rehan and Bashir for that final bowling spot. I'd be tempted to lean towards the finger spinner.

Robinson is the slight enigma there though. His F-C and Test stats are brilliant. With that high release point, accuracy and brilliant seam control he should be able to take wickets anywhere. He has been clearly unfit for Test cricket on a few occasions though. I think I'd take that gamble here given how talented he is. I could understand if the coaches and players are privately pretty frustrated with his preparation and not inclined to pick him though.

I think they will stick with Wood. Stokes and McCullum really like that high pace option. Picking Anderson and Wood without Rehan would lengthen the tail though, which was all important to the T1 win.

I don't see them picking an extra batter. Stokes puts an emphasis on wickets above all else in the field that I don't think I've seen before. He genuinely doesn't seem to care about going for runs at times if he feels they are remotely in the game to take wickets. I think he'll want at least the 4 bowlers and Root.

Fairs, I just don't see how they can pick Renan if they bowled an injured Leach and Root over him in the 4th innings. Extra seamer would also make sense as you say

We live and pick from our sofas in interesting times.

Just because Rehan justifiably wasn't trusted to bowl on Sunday, it no longer automatically follows that he won't be trusted to start on Friday. Ongoing love and support does seem to be a key feature of the Bazball era - well, you know what I mean.

Young and inexperienced players - and especially spinners - are going to have good and bad days. That probably still applies as much to Hartley as Rehan despite the former's massive success on debut.

All in all, where does this lead? I've really no idea. I haven't seen the track, Leach's medics or any of Anderson, Robinson, Bashir and Atkinson (probably not so forgotten out there as by us here) in practice. I do though - in line with Carlos - consider Rehan's  capability to bat at 8 is a distinctive factor in his favour, albeit not overwhelmingly so.

Guilford's view that Rehan might be trusted more in different conditions is more my feeling, GSC. When variable bounce comes into play you sometimes see spinners who can get overspin on the ball take more advantage of it for instance. Rehan as a googly dominant wrist-spinner can do that for instance.

In their first summer in charge we saw Stokes and McCullum pick Jamie Overton against NZ at Lords basically because they decided they needed a quicker bowler who was capable of banging it in and Overton was fit.

They have tended to select a bowling attack with varied bowlers who can threaten in different circumstances so that they are always hunting wickets even if it is at the expense of higher RR. Rehan does somewhat fit into that. If they feel he can chip in with wickets in situations and conditions where others wont, then they may well not be bothered that he's expected to bowl fewer overs than Root across the match. It isn't how we are used to teams selecting, but it has generally been working for them.

It's not what I'd do. If it looks like a Bunsen then I'd lean towards the finger spinners for (some...) accuracy with the pitch offering lots of assistance, then Robinson and Anderson both playing to keep it tight as needed. If it looks very flat, to start at least, then I'd want Wood ahead of Robinson or Jimmy for his pace as required. I honestly feel it's a bit of a toss up between Rehan and Bashir if it's a road. Neither profile as a spinner you want in those conditions. Bashir due to the lack of experience and Rehan as he bowls a genuine 4 ball most overs currently.

It's nice that the series is alive to encourage these debates though. After their respective 1st innings it felt like a potential shambles in the making. The sort of tour that's so one sided even the dominant side are hoping for some resistance. The India tour of 2011 comes to mind as an England fan. The 1st Test had some intrigue. KPs double ton, Dravid's excellent rearguard, hoping Sachin got on the honours board. That series just descended from there in terms of competitiveness and hence engagement though. Dravid was the only remaining member of that great Indian batting unit who looked likely to get it off the square - he was magnificent that series in fairness. Then the India bowling fell apart from the moment Zaheer hobbled off. Harbhajan couldn't land it. Ishant Sharma had one of the poorer bowling records in cricket at that stage. By the end of the series, highlights felt like Amit Mishra scoring runs as nightwatchman and Praveen Kumar somehow being skilful enough to take Test wickets at about 74mph.

Highlight of that series for me was amongst a score of 710/7 in the 3rd Test, my man Ravi Bopara didn't miss out on the feast with the wonderful 7 he made coming in at number 6

Many outlets, including The Times and Cricinfo, are now confirming that Jack Leach is out of the second test. Poor guy, he's so unlucky with these injuries. Not Archer unlucky, but still pretty unfortunate!

Apparently Bashir bowled very well in the nets today, so it seems he's almost certain to come in for Leach. Bashir, of course, may have played the first test at the expense of Hartley, if his visa had been sorted in time...

The Telegraph are saying that the pitch for the second test 'looks truer' than the first test wicket, in which case two seamers and a recall for Anderson looks likely. The Telegraph also add that Rehan didn't attend training today (the only one not to).

So might be a case of 8) Hartley 9) Wood/Robinson 10) Anderson 11) Bashir. A longer tail most certainly.

Leach is reported ruled out. Could be Bashir straight in. he may not yet be test standard and is picked on potential at best. But this Indian lineup, they've made it a habit to make the ordinary look extraordinary. So Bashir might finish with a 10for on debut!
As for India, seems the question is who between Sarfaraz and Patidar. So Washington and Kuldeep should be in...

Cricinfo speculates that Dan Lawrence is a possibility for England tomorrow, coming in place of either Leach or Rehan Ahmed. Might be able to offer the number of overs that Rehan did in the last game, and is certainly is a better bat. With England, you never know!

Duty281 wrote:
The Telegraph are saying that the pitch for the second test 'looks truer' than the first test wicket, in which case two seamers and a recall for Anderson looks likely. The Telegraph also add that Rehan didn't attend training today (the only one not to).

So might be a case of 8) Hartley 9) Wood/Robinson 10) Anderson 11) Bashir. A longer tail most certainly.

There is a lot of smoke & mirrors as we get closer to the date...and mind games by teams saying what they don't really mean.
Eng the more confident side is more vocal now with statements.

There is no way BCCI will deliver a pitch that's less spinning than Hyderabad......
They will ask the curator to try and impart more spin......and I am afraid in trying to fiddle with the pitch last minute, it might turn into a lottery....although Indian team clearly will not want a lottery pitch.

And no way will either team fall for verbal posturing....Eng will certainly not play more than one seamer.....question remains whether it will be Wood or Anderson.
The only straight change will be Bashir for Leach if the latter is unfit

Lots of fun speculating about selection - but honestly none of us is in a position to really judge what England will decide...it is all just guessing.

Certainly I wouldn't be as definitive as KP_fan in setting out what will happen !

Like KC , I lean towards the notion of a more "balanced" attack , featuring Robinson and Anderson along with Hartley and one of the other young spinners. Seems to me that if Robinson plays there is a little less concern about the length of the tail so the choice between Rehan and Bashir can be based purely on which is felt more likely to be effective with the ball. But of course that whole idea depends on whether there is going to be anything for the seamers this time around. Reports have suggested this ground might indeed offer a bit more - but we will have to wait and see about that !

I saw the Dan Lawrence suggestion : would be a long batting lineup ! But don't really expect that particular rabbit to emerge from the hat. Would have a little of the Jacks and Livingstone selections for Pakistan about it though...

The concern I have about another three spinner one pacer pick is that without Leach to offer some control (especially if , say , Wood were retained instead of Jimmy) , the three very raw youngsters might all leak runs and force Root into an even heavier workload. I know wickets not economy rates are the big thing with this side ; but they are not silly enough to ignore the latter as a device for creating pressure when the bats are digging in.

The only thing I feel sure about with India is that Kuldeep will play. But I suspect the fact that Patidar was in the squad initially might reasonably suggest he is first in line to fill a batting vacancy ?

Pretty much like for like changes for England, Bashir for Leach and Jimmy for Wood, so England think it's another square turner coming.

Well as much as Jimmy/Wood can be considered like for like

Eng name their 11 and as expected same composition .....Bashir replaces injured Leach and Anderson in for Wood to offer control.
And this would imply Eng have read the pitch as not different from T1


England squad for the second Test: Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Jonny Bairstow, Ben Stokes (c), Ben Foakes, Rehan Ahmed, Tom Hartley, Shoaib Bashir, James Anderson

For England's sake I hope it turns more.

They got the win last time, but I don't think it spun enough to justify four spinners and a quick, and Rehan with 2/138 was a bit of a passenger.

Good to see Jimmy back. Test match number 184 for Anderson, 10 away from 700 wickets.

The Indianexpress report on India's net practice session is a giveaway
That kuldeep , Washington and Patidar are in

Saurabh and Srfaraz were last to practice and standbys only if tomm morning someone pulls up sore.

Also the Lions are playing their third unofficial test today, the last one, trying to bounce back from the innings defeat last time and to rescue a series draw.

Safe to say it's going well. India A bowled out for 192. Potts 6/57 and Carse 4/52.

Duty281 wrote:For England's sake I hope it turns more.

They got the win last time, but I don't think it spun enough to justify four spinners and a quick, and Rehan with 2/138 was a bit of a passenger.

You make a valid point above that Eng's best hand would be 2 seamers...BUT they won and defying odds...coming from behind.
So the cracks get papered......deficiencies get validated by the win

Duty281 wrote:Also the Lions are playing their third unofficial test today, the last one, trying to bounce back from the innings defeat last time and to rescue a series draw.

Safe to say it's going well. India A bowled out for 192. Potts 6/57 and Carse 4/52.

Lions in Ind are tactical reserves to Eng's main side giving them like an extended squad to call upon.
And no way does BCCI want to give them any more spin practice / acclimatization...so they rolled out seemingly green top.
So seam friendly that the Lions chose to bowl first ....and used the seaming conditions.

Ind-A too have 3 decent seamers...lets see what they can get out of this pitch

The Vizag Pitch.....Crawley was right.....there is indeed a tinge of green grass.....cut very fine, heavily rolled in but green nevertheless.

My view....certainly not a lottery pitch, and won't gonna turn square either on D1.......maybe from Day-3 onward.
But should offer the usual turn on D1. India sticking to their strategy of letting the superiority of their spinners be the diffrentiator
Heavy Rolled in green grass left there there to ensure bounce doesn't die.

Meanwhile this video of Stokes bowling spin/ slow doing round in SM....stung by Root having jumped him in ICC allrounder's rankings  
https://twitter.com/willis_macp/status/1752972514501022067

So Anderson's in, not with Wood, but for him instead. Good call to get him in, but not sure 1 quick is the right way to go. Don't think India will be as timid with the bat for the rest of the series, and their spinners, even without Jadeja, will have better strategies for the broom plans. But the old man has the psychological edge over the Indian batters, and he has also been practicing left-arm spin as the Indians can't play it!

The toss might be crucial as the track is likely to be better to bat for a day or 2 upfront...

Looks a decent batting wicket that.

I'd say India also fear Anderson with the bat as well as the ball!

Great stat from Cricinfo - Root (11,477) has more Test runs than India's entire squad in Visakhapatnam (10,702)!

Duty281 wrote:Great stat from Cricinfo - Root (11,477) has more Test runs than India's entire squad in Visakhapatnam (10,702)!

Wow
This made me look up and I think Ashwin had more wickets in T1 than the entire English XI including non Bowler Stokes wickets.

In batting India find themselves suddenly in a forced transition
They chucked out Pujara, Rahane, Kohli is in break and in any case on last legs
And injuries to Pant, KL and Jadeja means the entire batting lineup up is green with the exception of Rohit.
The test is difficult but not as stern as it would be overseas......so a good tough but manageable opportunity to build the next gen  of Indian test match batting.

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Great stat from Cricinfo - Root (11,477) has more Test runs than India's entire squad in Visakhapatnam (10,702)!

Wow
This made me look up and I think Ashwin had more wickets in T1 than the entire English XI including non Bowler Stokes wickets.

In batting India find themselves suddenly in a forced transition
They chucked out Pujara, Rahane, Kohli is in break and in any case on last legs
And injuries to Pant, KL and Jadeja means the entire batting lineup up is green with the exception of Rohit.
The test is difficult but not as stern as it would be overseas......so a good tough but manageable opportunity to build the next gen  of Indian test match batting.

Yes. Rahane and Pujara may have been dropped. Even then, that is 4 gone from the possible first choice. Other than the skipper, its only the out of form Shubman Gill who has double digits test matches in that batting unit. Wow! What an opportunity and a challenge!

Stokes say he saw the viral video clipping of Bashir's spell vs Alastair Cook that led him to pick the kid
Here it is that "viral video"
https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1752754870136803582

My view tall, accurate, high release but does not get much spin.
Does not spin because he finishes his action side on...unlike Bhajji who was similarly tall & with high release and spun his torso almost 90 degrees more than Bashir to finish front on......thereby using his entire upper body to give a rippp and get more spin.
Swann was same.....lower release than Bashir and Bhajji but similar to bhajji in using his upper body to ripp & rev the ball.

Also Bashir doesn't seem to possess an overspin / slider that would go straight or come in to LHB....and goes too wide in the crease, almost to the edge of crease....won't get LBWs easily.

That part in Italics is hard to fix.....but the bit in bold can be worked upon and incorporated in his game....given he is young and if he gets a good coach.

PS* Good to see Cook....didn't use his feet to go down the track even when he blunted Indian spinners in that historic won series in India ...was it 2012? He got a double hundred.....so different from KP's inning then
Didn't try going down to Bashir even once, even now.

Impressed with the accuracy in that video - immaculate line and more importantly , length. If he maintains that on an Indian pitch offering a lot of turn he might indeed be a handful. And you'd think he's less likely than Rehan - or even Hartley - to be taken to the cleaners early on.

Mind you , Test Cricket is of course a mental issue as well so we will have to see how he handles the step up. But looks promising

So India win a possibly important toss - and bat , of course.

Somewhat contrary to opinions of Indian posters , no Washington. Instead , Mukesh Kumar replaces Siraj ; while Kuldeep and Patidar are in for the injured absentees.

Pitch is described as "a road" by Comms ; and with India sticking to two pace men , will England perhaps regret going with just Jimmy apart from the spin quartet ? We will have some idea soon enough...

Before we start , I should admit I , like KC , would have probably preferred to see Robinson as well as Jimmy today rather than going spin heavy. So am getting ready for Stokes & co to show my judgement is rubbish and they know best , as usual

No drama yet as Jimmy starts with five dots and a single.

Looks like Root to share the new ball. Nothing like an experienced opening pair...

Light on batting India
Very Light.....but has won an important toss

Does look like a good toss to have won. Certainly not one of those "spin right from the start" pitches.

Anderson bowling at a decent clip and has beaten the bat with a few already. Glad they didn't waste a review this time as one is caught behind - but definitely off the pad. The bounce is OK , though there's no pace in the surface.

Root has had a bit of trouble gripping the new ball I think , as he's bowled a couple of loose ones - but apart from two boundaries in his first over , no heavy damage.

19/0 after eight.

Ten overs gone and time for Super Tom Hartley...

Wonder if Jaiswal will go after him immediately again ?

No...just easy singles that over . But here comes Bashir at the other end...tidy enough start from him.

Doesn't look as if the batsmen are inclined to do anything extravagant just yet : steady approach, though they're taking singles wherever they can.

28/0 from 12. No close fielders apart from the slip .

Anderson has looked good ...with a hint of Nibble
Root rubbish and Bashir & Hartley not an iota of spin.
Pitch is a 450 first inning one....and if it doesn't deteriorate this could be a draw also

Indians have erred keeping Mukes in and to do what?
Bowl 5.overs ?

An uneventful 40/0 from the first 16 makes it India's first hour . Not least because they've won the toss . Looks like taking wickets today will be ... difficult.

KP pushing the line that the batsmen should be putting more pressure back on the young spinners : but it's pretty clear they are setting out to bat big...

But ah ! Bashir strikes

Rohit caught...by Pope , of course - at a well placed leg slip ! 40/1 and the debutant is justifiably ecstatic...

Great captaincy again too