England's Winter of Cricket 2023/24

First topic message reminder :

After the disappointment of the World Cup, can England be the first away team in 11 years to win a test series in India?

Three ODIs v West Indies (3rd December-9th December)
Five T20s v West Indies (12th December-21st December)
Five Tests v India (25th January-11th March)

Fifty stand...82/2.

Here's Rehan : think I'd have had him on before Bashir , to be honest - and that's not just hindsight. Expected Bashir to bowl better than he did ; but I'd have liked to see Rehan at these two before they got settled. They're both looking pretty comfortable now...there is some spin available but it's far from difficult batting conditions at the moment.

And that Rehan over went for nine so India are just about cruising now. How quickly this game can change !

KP lashing England for having too defensive field settings when this pair were struggling to get started. He may have a point : I think Stokes wanted to give his young bowlers a bit of protection ; but it is true there were a few too many easy singles on the table after Anderson came off. Have to say Bashir didn't bowl well so might not have been a perfect solution anyway.

Gill is really cashing in on his early charmed life. Striking the ball beautifully now...fifty up with successive boundaries from Rehan

Does look as if it's been all one way traffic since Anderson came off. Who knows ? Would another over or so , at that crucial time , have brought a better result ? I certainly would have kept him on ; but Stokes gets it right often enough I can forgive him

Haha ! Stokes

Just amazing ...catch on the long boundary , running and diving , his back to the ball - to take one for the ages ! Shreyas Iyer has to depart for 29 , 111/3 ...Nelson strikes.

Just a fantastic piece of fielding. And a sorely needed wicket for England. That'll run on YouTube.

Patidar gone ! Another truly excellent low catch by Ben Foakes as he underedges Rehan

England still fighting . 122/4 as lunch draws near...

Had his hands in the perfect position for that one , Foakes. Was just a tiny tickle by Patidar so probably wasn't as difficult to take as the one that got Iyer in the first innings - but if he hadn't been as low and ready he'd have had no chance with it. Great piece of keeping

It's Eng's session but Ind are far ahead.
Anderson continues to torment 3rd generation of Indian batting after Tendulkar and Kohli generations....now the Jaiswal Gen.

Brilliant catches from Foakes and Stokes and Eng's intensity keeps them in Inspite of medicore spin resources.

Gill plays too far in front of body down initial line not covering late movement is his flaw.
Rohit too had this flaw for many years and it was exposed again today.

Patidar unlucky, Iyer not converting another starts, axar 2 places too high, courtesy Dravid's bad team selection

Ind need to bat 50 overs more

Yeah India still well ahead in the game despite a good England performance in that session. If they bat another fifty overs they'll be well out of sight. Not sure they will : not too far from the tail now so only takes a couple of errors and we could see a quick fold. But I suspect they will still have too many for England - unless Bumrah breaks a leg or something

Bright start for India after lunch - nine from an Anderson over. Perhaps all the work might be starting to catch up with him as that was a bit of a loosener ?

Rehan continues other end - they don't want to let Axar get started. This could be the session where India take an unshakeable grip...

So despite the runs on the board, the first session was England's Gill lived a charmed life out there but survived the session to keep India in. Rohit's barren run continued as he fell to a red hot James Anderson. No special 2nd innings from Jaiswal, and India looked like folding rather quickly. But Gill and Shreyas Iyer put on a bit of a partnership to revive them. Shreyas again, on his first attempt to take on the slow bowler, fell victim to a catch for the ages from the England captain. But Shreyas never middled that properly, he has really been struggling, so if-when Kohli is back for the 3rd test, Shreyas has to go. Would give Patidar another chance if only 1 of Rahul and Kohli would be coming back. Seems Jadeja's injury is more serious than what was perceived initially.

Bigger concern for England is that Joe Root has sustained a bit of a finger injury. Not only is he not bowling, but has been off the field as well. Murali Kartik on air was suggesting that Root had bowled better than the other spinners and that only 2 overs for him is a bit of a setback for England. Root's not taken the field even after lunch.

msp83 wrote:Bigger concern for England is that Joe Root has sustained a bit of a finger injury. Not only is he not bowling, but has been off the field as well. Murali Kartik on air was suggesting that Root had bowled better than the other spinners and that only 2 overs for him is a bit of a setback for England. Root's not taken the field even after lunch.

Think Root came out of the attack before the finger knock ? Slightly surprisingly - though Hartley bowled well enough anyway. Will be a concern all right - especially if it affects his batting.

Gill really blasting off now - hammering Rehan to race into the eighties. Those narrow escapes might end up being the ultimate decisive factor in this match...

So India managing to see off Anderson's post-lunch spell. Now they should make sure they don't do anything silly, just bat normally and keep going against Rehan and the 2 other slow bowlers. ...

Gill's hand eye coordination overrides his technical flaws ...once he goes past 30s
He won't have been able to play with such freedom if this was the 4th inning.
3rd innings are least stressed

Looking all too easy for these two batsmen now...Hartley and Bashir not offering any real threat on a pitch that is not - yet - doing any tricks. And singles freely available ; while the loose ball is likely to be sent to the boundary with both Gill and Axar batting confidently. England look to be out of ideas beyond just keeping it as tidy as they can and hoping for mistakes...probably need a run out

KP and Bhogle are in a discussion on future of these 3 eng spinners
I would ask who is the best long term potential from these 3
My answer Hartley...he has the ingredients of Leach in making.
Rehan is more suited to white ball.
And Bashir doesn't have spin nor variations

KP_fan wrote:KP and Bhogle are in a discussion on future of these 3 eng spinners
I would ask who is the best long term potential from these 3
My answer Hartley...he has the ingredients of Leach in making.
Rehan is more suited to white ball.
And Bashir doesn't have spin nor variations

Rehan can actually spin the ball though. Far from being consistent, and doesn't have too many tricks. But I hope he's given the best chance... The lad can bat as well.
Hartley does seem better than Bashir. But he's not big on flight and loop. Not quite in the Leach mold... And Leach himself is not more than average... But Hartley has a helpful physique that can give him bounce. And he bowls at a decent pace too. Also, he seems handy with the bat as well.

Might be a bit early to judge which of these will progress ? Lot of spinners appear and disappear pretty quickly...

I do fancy Hartley might be good as a direct replacement for Leach . If he can learn to exert a bit more control when conditions don't give him much help - he does seem to be doing that a bit better today ; though he's going to find these later hours of the day difficult , I think. His batting looks like a very useful second string.

Bashir might have to wait and develop - he's young enough. As for Rehan , I fancy he could become a bit of an "Asia specialist ".

But I'll reserve judgement for now.

Third test ton for Shubman Gill. After a fabulous first half of last year, he's had to struggle, hopefully, this is going to keep him going for long... There are technical issues to be worked upon, has to work out his approach to test match innings better as well. But this innings will give Gill confidence and time to do all that...

Gill has done what a good player should : if you get a lucky break or two - make them pay ! Hundred up and he's taking this right away from England here

201/4 . I fear the rest of today might become one of those "less than riveting grind down of the trailing side " sessions - which are necessary and professional ; but rather lack excitement or fascination for any but the statistics freaks. Might have to let my wife have a turn with the TV

Think England need a short spell from Anderson. His post-lunch spell wasn't a particularly long one. The lead is building, not much life for the slow bowlers...

Gill went in a shell and failed to break it.
Pitch is benign and not much pressure.
Axar should get a big 50 and Bharat should aim.to get some easy runs

Still here for the moment... Stokes kept trying stuff with funky field settings and rewarded with Gill's wicket...

But he's done his job. India 363 on and with still Bharat and Ashwin they're going to push it well over 400. Credit England for keeping up the effort but it effectively went away from them when that Gill/Iyer stand established itself. They needed to really destroy the top order this morning - and couldn't quite do it.

Tough crowd on here, trying to assess the long term prospects of a couple of guys who are barely 20 based on two games!

Pretty sure Graeme Swann debuted in ODIs aged about 20 then wasn't seen again for a long time, and he's in the conversation for England's best ever spinner

Ind should not lose but you never know
If they do lose it would.go down to lack of enuf batting power to bat Eng out.
Bharat and Mukesh two useless selections in an already weak batting line up

Back after a break and some rewinding sees a couple of wickets thrown away and a bad drop by Crawley that might have seen the innings over by now...

Have to say Hartley has bowled pretty well today.

Ashwin and Bumrah ultra cautious here as the new ball approaches... Well they were until Ashwin launched Rehan for six

Obviously they do want to eke out as many as they can ; and time is not a problem. Indeed the longer the pitch has to wear , the better for them. Not surprised that KP doesn't approve their tactics as it isn't the way he played...

398 lead is looking pretty good !

Nice sharp low catch for Jonny at second slip . Three - well deserved - for Hartley...and getting close to the end of this innings. England's catching has been rather good today , except that one of Crawley's.

Actually four for Hartley, of course.

..and that's it as Foakes takes another excellent low catch from an edge created by Rehan... 255 all out so England "only" need 399 to win...

Piece of cake

Last 6 wickets for 44 runs.

399 to win.

alfie wrote:..and that's it as Foakes takes another excellent low catch from an edge created by Rehan...   255 all out so England "only" need 399 to win...

Piece of cake  

Yep, but still the highest innings score of the match needed to win it - which, as Olly will testify, ain't easy!

Good resistance from Ashwin and Bumrah in the end, but India yet again underperforming with the bat. Too many give aways. Gill, Iyer, Bharat... At least Shubman did after getting to a hundred. Hope KS Bharat will exit test cricket with a good performance with the gloves after this game. He can't clearly bat at test level!
Feel India left at least another 50 runs in the hut. England will surely go for it. The bowlers need to be on top of their games...

a touch of variable bounce in that first Bumrah over... So it is the obligatory over or 2 from Mukesh Kumar from the other end. Can he show he has been anything more than a passenger in this test?

Mukesh starts off in style. Line all over the place, length the same, and then got smashed for boundaries of the last 2 balls! What on earth was Rohit and Dravid thinking!?

KS Bharat is useless with reviews too! Smart of Rohit to keep his wits!

msp83 wrote:a touch of variable bounce in that first Bumrah over... So it is the obligatory over or 2 from Mukesh Kumar from the other end. Can he show he has been anything more than a passenger in this test?

Hi msp - I guess the worst thing for you and KP_f would be for Mukesh to somehow end up with a threefer and remain in contention for the next Test.

Certainly England will go for it - they know no other way and no chance to defend for two days in any case. As guildford points out , it would defy one of our regularly quoted truisms about highest fourth innings : but also " records are made to be broken".

Will never say "never" with this side. But it would be a remarkable feat were they to pull it off ; and you'd have to say the odds are very much with the home team here. Think we can predict the game will end tomorrow either way ... Hope it is another entertaining day for all of us and the paying spectators...

Mukesh gets a 2nd over... No Ashwin yet.

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:a touch of variable bounce in that first Bumrah over... So it is the obligatory over or 2 from Mukesh Kumar from the other end. Can he show he has been anything more than a passenger in this test?

Hi msp - I guess the worst thing for you and KP_f would be for Mukesh to somehow end up with a threefer and remain in contention for the next Test.

Thankfully Guildford, there are reports indicating Mohammed Shami should be ready to go in the next test or the 1 after that. Even if Mukesh takes all 10 here, Shami if fit, would walk back in.!
And its not actually against Mukesh. He can be handy in certain conditions. But his is a bad, attrotious selection for the test, particularly with India missing Ravindra Jadeja and KL Rahul both, on top of Virat Kohli who has been unavailable, and both Rishabh Pant and Ishan Kishan who are absent making the management go in with another liability in KS Bharat.

Mukesh continues to show up Rohit and Dravid for their stupidity in picking him over Washington or even Sarfaraz.

Bit of a contrast with Bumrah two overs for one and Mukesh two for 19...

Not really fair though to compare anyone with this maestro, is it ? He does seem a strange selection , I have to say.

Probably take a hat trick tomorrow now

Mukesh does seem like someone you pull in from the car park with the promise of a good tea when one of the regular Sunday seconds has failed to show.

And , while I understand fans complaining about selections , we can all make questionable choices - even us on here . Surely one or two thoughts of leaving Gill out of the side , had Rahul been fit , were drifting around ? I'd have to check back a few pages , but I seem to recall...

Most players in both teams have been dropped at some point on here!

VTR wrote:Most players in both teams have been dropped at some point on here!

Yeah, that so often seems the role of sports forums. Everyone's pretty good at dropping players and sacking managers. Replacing them can be trickier, mind.

Duckett probably should have just kept swinging...a rare defensive push and he's gone... Ashwin will be happy , he was getting a bit frustrated. 50/1.another rapid start by Zac and Ben but England would really have been hoping to see them carrying on into tomorrow...

Rehan the night watchman. Look away guildford !

Just when we were starting to hope, the maligned Bharat reacts well to dive forward and snaffle Duckett from Ashwin's first over.

And is replaced by Rehan ... which I obviously don't like.

Rehan at 3 isn't a bad option under the circumstances. Not a proper nightwatchman, the guy is a bowling all-rounder... Oliver Pope could have been not the smartest choice in the match situation. His game against spin is based on a lot of sweep and hope, defense doesn't come into the frame...

Suppose some added reason for the night watchman this time is the finger issue that has affected Root ? They really wouldn't want any chance of his being called upon to bat tonight.

Or maybe Rehan is The Night Hawk ? As he lofts Axar for four to cow corner and slashes him for another

67/1 . Just another 332 tomorrow then...

Nice little flourish from Rehan to end the day for England. England are very much in the game. India left out too many runs out there, can't expect Bumrah to produce the magic every time... Needs a Mukesh 5for tomorrow!

Decent day for England but they were so far behind. Maybe someone has a big innings in them but feels like they'll probably end up 150-200 short

Was another splendidly competitive day of Test Cricket
Series has given us a few of them already .

Obviously India still favourite : indeed it might unravel quickly for England at some point. But even if it does , this has still been a really good match - which makes it two out of two instead of the ritual slaughter a lot of people were predicting before the series began.

Gill says 70/30 India. Maybe fair enough ? I'm certainly not putting money on England ...but I will at least indulge in some hopeful dreams for the time being...