England's Winter of Cricket 2023/24

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After the disappointment of the World Cup, can England be the first away team in 11 years to win a test series in India?

Three ODIs v West Indies (3rd December-9th December)
Five T20s v West Indies (12th December-21st December)
Five Tests v India (25th January-11th March)

85/90-10/15 in favour of India with the pitch misbehaving and Root's possible injury.

Probably a Stokes special if England do chase it.

India have definitely missed out on at least another 100 runs in this test that they should have got.

First they blunder playing.Mukesh Kumar, then they lose 20 runs bowling him trying to justify their blunder...which could be crucial if the game becomes tight.
I hope it doesn't and we win comfortably but you  never know.
It's a battle.between a clever,.bold but weaker team punching above their weight against a defensive, formula / script following, dare I saw timid team but with better cricketing resources inspite of putting not their best 11.
The latter should win, but you never know.

There are 3 guys who can hack snd slog in this team to 100s.....India got Duckett and need to prise out Crawley and Pope cheaply.
Thankfully Brook is missing and Root /Stokes not in that hacking /slogging form.
Spinners largely and bring Bumrah for upto 4 spells should be the script for tommow

5-fer for Shams Mulani vs Lions as Ind A win comfortably.
Best spinner in Ind along with saurabh Kumar...the latter was lucky to play earlier than Shams and pick a 5-fer.
Akashdeep, Sai Sudarshan and at.some point Shams will be in reckoning for India calls

Realistically, England have no chance. They probably have no chance unrealistically, too.

However, the fact that Gill gives England a 30% chance shows that India are taking nothing for granted. But I have to agree with others above that England will fall short.

Find it amazing that no visiting team has ever made 300 in the 4th innings in India. And here are England needing 400.

Should it all go wrong for India, they can probably point to the collapse at the end of their 2nd innings.

It was somewhat reminiscent of Edgbaston in 2022 after India lost their last six wickets for 55 when they should have put the game out of sight for England.

As it is there will be the familiar feeling of hope for a while tomorrow followed by the despair as the wickets tumble. Not a bad match, though.

Not a good tour for England Lions, losing two and drawing two of the games. Both losses pretty hefty and will have been very disappointing to lose that last game after bowling India A out cheaply in the first innings.

Stand out player by a mile for the Lions was Potts. 21 wickets @ 17.9, strike-rate of 32.4, two five-wicket hauls. Should keep himself in the mind of the selectors when the inevitable injuries arrive for other players. No other frontline bowler actually averaged below 40 on the tour, although Mousley (a batting all-rounder) took 4 wickets @ 23.

Only Jennings averaged above 40 with the bat, and he got one of the only two centuries from the Lions players (the other being for Bohannon, who mostly struggled). Rew only scored 110 across 7 innings, high score of 56, so very disappointing for him as he has missed a chance.

Duty281 wrote:Not a good tour for England Lions, losing two and drawing two of the games. Both losses pretty hefty and will have been very disappointing to lose that last game after bowling India A out cheaply in the first innings.

Stand out player by a mile for the Lions was Potts. 21 wickets @ 17.9, strike-rate of 32.4, two five-wicket hauls. Should keep himself in the mind of the selectors when the inevitable injuries arrive for other players. No other frontline bowler actually averaged below 40 on the tour, although Mousley (a batting all-rounder) took 4 wickets @ 23.

Only Jennings averaged above 40 with the bat, and he got one of the only two centuries from the Lions players (the other being for Bohannon, who mostly struggled). Rew only scored 110 across 7 innings, high score of 56, so very disappointing for him as he has missed a chance.

Disappointing as you say, Duty. Particularly so that none of the younger guns pushed their names forward.

Duty281 wrote:Not a good tour for England Lions, losing two and drawing two of the games. Both losses pretty hefty and will have been very disappointing to lose that last game after bowling India A out cheaply in the first innings.

Stand out player by a mile for the Lions was Potts. 21 wickets @ 17.9, strike-rate of 32.4, two five-wicket hauls. Should keep himself in the mind of the selectors when the inevitable injuries arrive for other players. No other frontline bowler actually averaged below 40 on the tour, although Mousley (a batting all-rounder) took 4 wickets @ 23.

Only Jennings averaged above 40 with the bat, and he got one of the only two centuries from the Lions players (the other being for Bohannon, who mostly struggled). Rew only scored 110 across 7 innings, high score of 56, so very disappointing for him as he has missed a chance.

I won't judge Eng Lions  so harshly for in my view the primary objective of A tours is to both  test &groom in adverse A-grade conditions the supply line for the national side.
Winning is a secondary objective.

The biggest gain would be the success of English seamers Pott, Fischer & Carse in India......troubling and collapsing the best of Indian A grade batting 3 out of 3 times in first innings.
Shows Eng should rely more on seam then they do in India and that they have a good supply line of seam bowling.
Callum Parkinson as a SLA did some credible efforts and Keaton Jennings did well....and has probably made himself a stand-by if for eg Eng find Root has damaged his finger and need rest for a test

The pitch hasn't had much life in it. India couldn't get a couple of early wickets upfront. If England bat the entire day tomorrow, they win this one. All down to Bumrah, Kuldeep and Ashwin, to transcend the pitch and conditions...

Decent effort again by England with the ball I think - Ahmed in particular has bowled well this test, much improved from the first test and very promising indeed thinking how young he is!

Obviously India still well in command - 70/30 that Gill mentions is a bit fairyland, it's very much more 99 times out of 100 territory they win this from here, especially with Root seemingly carrying a knock. Hope for England's sake they can get some runs and make a fist of it...Bairstow/Foakes could do with a score in particular.

msp83 wrote:The pitch hasn't had much life in it. India couldn't get a couple of early wickets upfront. If England bat the entire day tomorrow, they win this one. All down to Bumrah, Kuldeep and Ashwin, to transcend the pitch and conditions...

That seems a bit negative! Almost reads like it's England's game to lose. I really don't think you have to worry, England will probably make about 250 at best

Yep, agree with Olly and VTR for me.

The highest 4th innings chases by touring teams in India is remarkable reading.

276 by the Windies in 1987
207 by England in 1972
194 by Australia in 1994

So the third highest ever chase by the away team in India is under 200...   None over 300 for touring teams. India have one chase over 300, which was 387-4 against England in 2008. They also made 347 in the tied '86 Test against Australia. All other 4th innings totals over 300 were by India in drawn Tests.

The 276 by the Windies in '87 included a Viv masterclass as well.

I do think that this England batting group have a far better chance of doing it by having a whack than they would've by nurdling it around. A few years ago, with similar batting talent, we would've been having the tried and test, "If Root gets a double ton something might happen", conversation. Which seemed to be the tale of every innings. Once Root went so did any mirage of hope. Which really is the point of the new approach. It's not that they'll suddenly make chases like these. It's that they are scoring more runs like this than they did before. If I wake up early I'll certainly watch whatever is happening. Which I may have struggled to in this scenario not too long ago.

VTR wrote:

msp83 wrote:The pitch hasn't had much life in it. India couldn't get a couple of early wickets upfront. If England bat the entire day tomorrow, they win this one. All down to Bumrah, Kuldeep and Ashwin, to transcend the pitch and conditions...

That seems a bit negative! Almost reads like it's England's game to lose. I really don't think you have to worry, England will probably make about 250 at best

Says something about the Stokes-led England that msp is a little nervous - and that India themselves have been a bit cautious in their batting (which probably ended up costing them a few runs in the end !) Also that Gill regards it as only 70/30 despite history suggesting a miracle is required.

Obviously the likelihood of a fourth innings chase of this size is low. (And doubts over Root due to injury are a concern). But after Edgbaston in 2022 I reckon Indian nerves would be jangling if England were to mount a serious challenge over the first couple of sessions.

Hoping for a good showing rather than a fizzle out...

Gill off the field with an injury - but Bumrah is fit and bowling an excellent first over so India won't be too worried

Rehan has started off swinging - and mostly missing - at Axar , while Crawley has been beaten by several Bumrah rockets and yet to get bat to ball... But nails Bumrah's twelfth delivery and that's four with bonus points for style ...

Rehan starts this over with two boundaries - lofted on drive and neat off drive. 82/1

Getting 399 is a bit of a tall order ; but trying for it should be fun to watch...

Bit off the main topic : but have you seen the business in the U19 WC with an England batsman given out obstructing the field after picking up a stationary ball and giving it to the keeper ? Just as well it was Zimbabwe and not Australia

Seriously though it is taking win at all costs to a ridiculous extent appealing for that. Didn't help them as Zimbabwe were beaten by miles. Karma...

Eng have come.out to see off Bumrah
Axar from the the other end is a good choice ...India bent on keeping tight.
One turned and Rohit dropped half chance.....that's enuf to put doubt and he started firing his arm balls and caught Rehan Plumb

Rehan living dangerously- as befits a Night Hawk

Raced to 23 from 30 ...but gone now as Axar gets one to keep low and given lbw . 95/2.

Rehan walked - seemingly before the finger was up ! In fact I'm not sure that he wasn't struck outside the line then but Night Hawks don't risk reviews . Think it would have been umpires call anyway - yes , was umpires call.

Pope starts nicely with a cover drive for four.

Wasn't that plumb then , was it , KP_fan ? Could even say Rehan a bit unlucky as the umpires have been a bit reluctant to give lbws in this match. But good bit of bowling from Axar

Root is padded up do injury can't be too much of a worry. Axar v Pope will be an interesting watch...

Pope looking for runs from the start...10 from 12 already. Bit of a scare then as he swept and Bharat - after an excellent take ! - appealed for a catch ; but the sound was bat on ground and India did well not to review.

Crawley fifty up and Pope two more boundaries as 13 come from Axar's next over... Game is moving at pace !

125/2

No surprise to see the way these batsmen are attacking their task...already 98 of the 132 runs have come in boundaries. And just three maidens in 28 overs - all by Bumrah , who is currently having a bit of a rest - he will be back when reverse is available.

Oh great catch ! Rohit takes a blinder at slip as Pope flashes hard at Axar and India have their break right on drink break time...

Pope came out on a dose of adrenalin
Running and hacking from.go.
Ashwin is cleverly going round the wkt and bowling only sliders going away from rhb, totally avoiding any deliveries that can be slogged.
The adrenalin infused inning did not last long

This is crazy stuff...

Root two reverse sweeps for four in his first four balls

Surely can't last but fun while it does. Guess conventional methods have never got a result here in this kind of situation so they reckon they might as well try this ? Whatever happens , tomorrow definitely won't be needed

Yes Ashwin has bowled very well this morning - apologies to him as I wrongly gave Pope's wicket to Axar

...and now he's got Root ! Big swipe , skied and caught. Oh dear.......this could go downhill fast from here.

Maybe the injured finger but Root was perhaps a little overexcited today ? 154/4

Overly pumped up, on a literal injection of adrenalin, like pope , Root went hacking from ball -1
He is not a natural.hacker
4 failures in a row with bat for Root

This is not a minefield...hardly spinning much.
And Root has double hundreds on spinning pitches.
Sad to see him going down swinging like tailenfer Shami

Root was nowhere near the pitch of that ball , right off balance . Strange innings.

England really up against it now. Ashwin on fire ; and with the two quick wickets falling I suspect Bairstow will be unsure about playing his natural - and best - game of attacking from the start...

Weird scorecard that sees Zac Crawley with easily the slowest scoring rate of the first five batsmen at the moment

Ball spinning more now...and both Ashwin and Axar bowling well - although the latter has been expensive, he's also looked dangerous. Crawley is well set , but he's still being tested to the limit by these two.

184/4

Bumrah is back

This will be a different kind of test...

With Crawley gone now, pretty much all hope is gone for England. Felt these two needed to bring the chase down to under 150.

Crawley is a killer blow, he was holding one end and every now and then hitting boundaries

Eng need to negotiate one Bumrah over before lunch carefully

Well that's a shock to me ! Thought that lbw review against Crawley was going to be umpires call at most but three reds came up...and a fine innings ended just before lunch...

Probably derailed this England challenge : they needed him to stay. Lots of surprised looks in the England dressing room at that replay. Rohit wasn't at all sure either , late decision to take it. But you can't argue with the technology.

194/5.

And as feared Eng could not negotiate that one Bumrah over.
SlowMo shows Johnny was playing that ball with an open phase implying expecting away swing but it shaped in beating his inside edge

And now Bumrah has Bairstow ! He's reviewed but don't think it will save him...no : umpires call so the onfield call stays...

194/6 and India rampant and strolling off for lunch.

One might say England are just a shade unfortunate to lose two wickets to umpires call lbw decisions , given the number of such close calls that have been given not out in this match. But India have done well to keep pressing despite the fast scoring we've seen all morning , and those two late wickets have rewarded them - and probably decided the game.

Quite a session. Five wickets and 127 runs.

Funny game this has been . One double century, one century , and Crawley two seventies...but apart from that no one has passed fifty. At the same time lots of players have made significant starts - scorecard is littered with scores between 25-35. Pitch has been generally OK for batting , you'd think ; so I'd have expected more players to go on once "in". Have to credit some good bowling I guess : Anderson was excellent for England , and Bumrah has been marvellous in both innings with his reverse. Makes for a good match to watch , and I hope the next pitch is similar...

alfie wrote:


One might say England are just a shade unfortunate to lose two wickets to umpires call lbw decisions

Which are the 2 to Umpires call?
Umpire's call was in favor of crawley, Rehan was so plumb that he did not review

I think the luckiest reprive of the morning session was Crawley, where Axar's ball was crashing into middle stump and he survived on umpires call for impact outside the line of off

The Rehan decision would have been umpires call had he reviewed. And Bairstow as we just saw would also have been safe had the on field decision gone the other way. It's the luck of the game of course : but it goes to show that tiny margins can have a big influence on a game. I'm certainly not getting excited about it - reckon India have earned their presumed victory here. But have to point out Rehan was far from being "plumb"...and it is a little ironic that within a few balls we have seen one batsman out to everyone's surprise on a "hopeful" review ; and another out to a marginal call that went to the bowler ... Think the escape you mentioned earlier was Root , not Crawley?

alfie wrote:The Rehan decision would have been umpires call had he reviewed. And Bairstow as we just saw would also have been safe had the on field decision gone the other way.   It's the luck of the game of course : but it goes to show that tiny margins can have a big influence on a game.    I'm certainly not getting excited about it - reckon India have earned their presumed victory here. But have to point out Rehan was far from being "plumb"...and it is a little ironic that within a few balls we have seen one batsman out to everyone's surprise on a "hopeful" review ; and another out to a marginal call that went to the bowler ...  Think the escape you mentioned earlier was Root , not Crawley?

Victory cannot be presumed for India.yet...whilst Stokes is there...he has to be careful if he faces Bumrah.
Rehan looked so plumb that he did not bother to review and hence I didn't even know if they showed drs
That umpires call ball crashing into middle was so freak and rare luck that went in batters favor.


Ball spun a bit in first over after lunch now

Kuldeep's lbw went contrary to visual perception of all including me I must say.
I heard tinge of hard done by DRS in Cook and Finn's tone in studio
But DRS will not randomly misalign in one case.
My guess Hawkeye governing DRS is exactly in line and camera shot probably gets at slight angles sometimes

Think this one is beyond even Stokes super powers ! Amazed Bumrah has only one wicket (yet) in this innings as he's been bowling brilliantly.

Balls been spinning for a while. And the ones that keep low are always going to be a menace - hence why England were all out attack this morning...no way to grind this one to 399. Though I think Root rather overdid it !

I know Jaiswal will be PoTM ; but honestly , it is that Bumrah performance on day two that has won India this game. England's 246 on only the second day was way under par - and that was down to his excellence. His spinner mates are doing the job today , as you'd expect on day four.

Stokes should be careful...playing tok much off backfoot
Risk of LBW

I don't think Hawkeye actually makes mistakes ! Just occasionally the result surprises us all - like that one. It isn't absolutely 100% certain , of course : which is why they have the umpires call rule. But of course that means that the human opinion is still important in those marginal cases so ultimately we have to just accept the umpire's decision

At 214/6 England have probably made it further than a lot of fans expected today. But I don't think India will be getting nervous at least until these two have put on another hundred

Jadeja r.o bonus reciprocated
Presumption of victory can start NOW

Well that's a disappointing way to kill off the challenge... Nice bit of fielding from Iyer but a very uneccessary run out of the main man

Odd. Stokes was slow out of the blocks and appeared to think he had plenty of time to make his ground...a really dozy piece of running.

Not sure how much longer this will go for . Hartley in typical style off the mark with a six to underline his potential as a useful late order bat. Trail by 167 now so you'd imagine they'd do well to get it down under 100. I'm not too discouraged though as India have been good here after winning an important toss , even if the bulk of their batting success has been down to two individuals. Reckon this series might well swing back and forth a bit yet.

Foakes launching Kuldeep for six is not his usual style ! But he's doing a good job here and growing in confidence with the bat after a good game behind the stumps.

India wasting this review as that clearly hit the bat. They've got two left so not a concern...but Ashwin is getting a bit twitchy as he hunts that 500th wicket

That was a peculiar innings from Stokes. We know he likes to start carefully ; but given the highly positive way the rest of the batsmen approached things today he seemed a little lacking in overt energy ; and his running was frankly not the best . Really should have made that run comfortably. He can't work miracles all the time , of course , but I'd been hoping he would turn a bit of pressure back on the Indian bowlers there , with Foakes seemingly settling in well in support at the other end.

Good to see these two still fighting it out. 34 added so far...pity this target is so far out of reach. Got the feeling this England side is a chance to chase down almost anything as they just don't tend to fold up easily...but 399 in India is just a bit too much...

500 for Ashwin ! Or is it ? Hartley given out caught behind but he's reviewed immediately...think that's off his arm ? Yes ...this will be overturned. Didn't look quite right to me in the first place - though was actually close to a weird lbw !

Stand worth 48 now. Of course there is no real pressure on these two because no one gives them a hope of making another 130.

Don't know why they are messing about with yet more replays ? Clearly not out caught...and not enough certainty to cause an lbw verdict. Settled at last...

Was smart "catch" though.

On we go.

alfie wrote:500 for Ashwin !  Or is it ?  Hartley given out caught behind but he's reviewed immediately...think that's off his arm ? Yes ...this will be overturned.  Didn't look quite right to me in the first place - though was actually close to a weird lbw !

Stand worth 48 now.  Of course there is no real pressure on these two because no one gives them a hope of making another 130.

Don't know why they are messing about with yet more replays ? Clearly not out caught...and not enough certainty to cause an lbw verdict. Settled at last...

Was smart "catch" though.

On we go.

I've had shorter holidays than the time for that review!

Mukesh having another chance to get on the scorecard now

I'm sure India would like to wrap this up before tea. But this - now fifty - partnership is holding them up. Might even still be going by the time the UK based posters all wake up and join me on here perhaps ? Or is everyone here but staying mute ?

Ah...hi guildford ... Didn't see you there before I posted that

You've missed a bit of fun this morning - though it's all just a little frustrating seeing as they're getting as close as they are : seems that if just one of the main bats had been able to convert a start into something significant this game would still be very much "on".

Ah that's a pity...Foakes has done well here but falls for Bumrah's slower ball. Rats.

Ultimately that first innings double hundred was the difference, otherwise we'd probably be looking at 2-0 England.