England's Summer of Cricket 2024

First topic message reminder :

Now the County Championship has begun, it is officially summer once more. Don't let the rain tell you otherwise!

We can talk about promising county performances, the build up to the World T20, and Ollie Robinson's latest injury when it happens. Then, in just under two months, England start playing games:

England v Pakistan, four T20s, 22nd May-30th May
World T20 in June
England v West Indies, three tests, 10th July-30th July
England v Sri Lanka, three tests, 21st August-10th September
England v Australia, three T20s, 11th September-15th September
England v Australia, five ODIs, 19th September-29th September

It's a bit of a pressure summer for England. The ODI side made the most disappointing defence of a World Cup crown since France in the football in 2002, so there's pressure on the T20 side, and Mott in particular, to deliver something decent in the Caribbean.

For the test match side, it's been three series without a series win for England, so the expectation is on for England to get back to winning ways against the West Indies and Sri Lanka. The West Indies often cause England a few troubles, but England have won their last seven home series v the West Indies, dating back to 2000, and you have to go back to 1988 for the last time the West Indies won a series in England.

Sri Lanka are visiting for the first time in eight years for a test series, so it's well overdue. They've certainly managed to upset England in the past, very famously in 1998, but also in 2014, so it's a series that cannot be taken for granted.

And to round off the summer the ECB are making a dash for cash, with eight limited overs games against the Aussies in the fading September light, in games that will probably be forgotten in no time at all.

I think the Windies will improve. It's a strong bowling attack, they can certainly compete better than that. Their previous Test was the win in Oz after all.

It is an excellent snapshot of the big threes short sightedness though. The bilateral model where touring teams lose money is farcical and outdated. The inequitable distribution of revenues is a joke. The BCCI, ECB and CA acted as a cartel to hoard short term revenue without a glance to the future. This is the result. If other boards can't fund the sport, then the ECB and CA may increasingly struggle to have appealing home summers to sell to broadcasters and fans.

One of the sadder things IMO was the response to SA sending a weakened team to NZ. In the model that the big three have created, the only shot smaller boards have at financial viability is trying to create a profitable domestic comp. The only option there obviously being T20. Which the SA20 is actually a pretty impressive attempt at doing regardless of what some think of the format. By prioritising their only route to a financially viable model, SA cricket were lambasted though. In reality, the big three should've been lambasted for creating this model that blatantly does nothing but ensure a little bit more revenue for them short term, until the house of cards collapses.

king_carlos wrote:  

One of the sadder things IMO was the response to SA sending a weakened team to NZ. In the model that the big three have created, the only shot smaller boards have at financial viability is trying to create a profitable domestic comp. The only option there obviously being T20. Which the SA20 is actually a pretty impressive attempt at doing regardless of what some think of the format. By prioritising their only route to a financially viable model, SA cricket were lambasted though. In reality, the big three should've been lambasted for creating this model that blatantly does nothing but ensure a little bit more revenue for them short term, until the house of cards collapses.

I have lived outside of India now for nearly quarter of a century and catch up on social development there only thru friends and close relatives.
I was talking to my brother a die-hard cricket aficionado, writes also for sports journals...and moves in the circle of journos and administrators.
Says that the younger generation ( born in this millennium) don't care now for tests or even bilateral white ball cricket.
Their loyalties and love is towards Franchise cricket, not just IPL, they follow other leagues also.....and the Upper Middle class & rich have love divided between global football leagues and cricket leagues.

According to him & many observers in India tests and 50 over cricket is bound to fade away into oblivion & die as the generation with romantic love towards these formats become old and fade away from  being influencers & decision makers.
The smaller and weaker boards will fall away first. Ire, Zim, Afg although with test status and play an odd game or two, do not care nor crave for test cricket. The main endevour of their players is to be recognized and earn contracts from leagues around the world.
WI & SA are the next in the queue.....NZ & Pak will hold on for a bit longer and then the big 3.
All will fall in 20 years, maybe 25, tops 30.

BCCI as well as big boards and the financial investors whose objective is making money have all figured this. They know the inevitable writing on the wall and make no attempts to slow down the inevitable.Their entire focus is geared towards making T20 Franchise model spread wider, deeper, bigger money spinner, faster and hopefully with BCCI retained as the center of this universe.


So in 20-25 years in a dystopian future snapshots & video clippings of test cricket & 50 over ODIs will be circulated in whatever format social media will have then like we see photos of Rotary Phone, B&W TV, Floppy Disc ( for computer data saving) now with some nostalgic music playing in the background

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/chris-woakes-not-ruling-out-playing-ashes-in-australia-1443287

Well he will be 36+ and with Archer, Wood, Atkinson, Tongue, Potts, Pennington and Robinson I'd say he wouldn't be first choice. He will get the new ball but got it in WI and went for 23 off his first 3 overs. Also will it mean he will go to Pakistan and NZ. Maybe he's been told by Key, Stokes and McCullum they see him in the Ashes.

It's a silly headline. He's been asked about the next Ashes series and he can hardly say 'I've got no chance!'

Woakes won't be going to Australia. His overseas record is dreadful. For now, he needs to focus on finding his rhythm and form and getting back to the level we saw last summer, because he could still play a pivotal role in next summer's home series v India, which may be his last chapter.

Duty281 wrote:It's a silly headline. He's been asked about the next Ashes series and he can hardly say 'I've got no chance!'

Woakes won't be going to Australia. His overseas record is dreadful. For now, he needs to focus on finding his rhythm and form and getting back to the level we saw last summer, because he could still play a pivotal role in next summer's home series v India, which may be his last chapter.

Well it is not fair to be kept as a home bowler. By then other bowlers hopefully will have made their mark.
Tall bowler - Pennington, Tongue
Swing bowler - Robinson, Woakes
Fast bowler - Wood, Archer, Atkinson, Turner
All round bowler - Stokes

Think Woakes is more likely to be in Australia than Ollie Robinson at this point

GSC wrote:Think Woakes is more likely to be in Australia than Ollie Robinson at this point

Indeed, you only need one of them to carry the drinks.

The real Ashes question is, which bowler will be picked for their pace/height/wrist-spin then never be seen again!

Will be at Trent Bridge on Friday - hoping to see Pennington get a go in person.

Wood does play then after all. Straight swap for Jimmy. Must admit I don't quite get that one if Jimmy is being stood down, England will still feature a seam attack where 3 of the 4 are 33 or older.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Will be at Trent Bridge on Friday - hoping to see Pennington get a go in person.

Crawley, Duckett, Pope, Root, Brook, Stokes (c), Smith (wk), Woakes, Atkinson, Wood, Bashir

Was also hoping for Pennington. Wood hasn't played red ball cricket since India.

Disappointed with no Potts and Pennington. It's going to be a big game for Wood, though. His England career in all formats has nosedived since last September.

Duty281 wrote:Disappointed with no Potts and Pennington. It's going to be a big game for Wood, though. His England career in all formats has nosedived since last September.

Hmm ... and this is year one of Wood's three year central contract.

Yeah struggling to understand the logic behind dumping Jimmy, then fielding Wood and Woakes together. Unless they're simply gonna play Wood for one game and Pennington for another of the remaining.

All this talk of building to Australia and from this XI Woakes almost certainly won't be there (and if he is, something has gone drastically wrong!) and Wood is unlikely to be there on present form.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yeah struggling to understand the logic behind dumping Jimmy, then fielding Wood and Woakes together. Unless they're simply gonna play Wood for one game and Pennington for another of the remaining.

Yeah indeed. Anyway, hope you still have a very good day on Friday, mate.

Two reasons I can see for picking him, not that I would necessarily agree with either:

1) They still want the mix to be 2 with experience plus one new bowler

2) This is a final chance for Wood to prove he still is an option for Australia after a poor Winter. If it goes badly he's dropped and likely never plays again

VTR wrote:Two reasons I can see for picking him, not that I would necessarily agree with either:

1) They still want the mix to be 2 with experience plus one new bowler

2) This is a final chance for Wood to prove he still is an option for Australia after a poor Winter. If it goes badly he's dropped and likely never plays again

Hi VTR - I appreciate you're outlining possible reasons rather than necessarily supporting them. With regard to 2) and given Wood's in the first year of a three year central contract, I would emphasise that the ECB have potentially been very generous with their/our money.

Definitely, so I think 1 is far more likely, also given that the callow Bashir is part of the attack. I was just musing on other possibilities given Stokes and McCullum are being fairly ruthless at the moment, and the contract was awarded before a very poor Winter. I suppose it could also be looked at in a more positive way, they see him as an essential part of The Ashes team so need to give him some game time

West Indies unchanged for this one. Shamar Joseph shook off whatever problem was afflicting him.

West Indies have only lost one test out of nine played at Nottingham. It was the most recent one, back in 2012.

Joe Root needs just 11 runs to go to ninth in the all time test run scorers list. 4,117 behind Tendulkar...

I just read Atkinson and Wood being in the same team as them wanting to try one (or both) with the new ball. Most our quicker options aren't as suited to the new ball and most the seamers aren't that suited to the older one - especially without the Dukes. Whereas players such as Cummins, Bumrah, Starc and Rabada can do both.

Having two genuinely quick options in the attack is extremely useful at various points in the innings. If neither can utilise the new ball then it leaves you short at the top of the innings though. Unless Stokes were to open. Which I genuinely think he could given how he can hoop it when the ball does swing. I don't see that something they'll likely do though.

I'm really excited to see an England attack with one of the fastest bowlers in the world and another in the present day Pat Cummins type bracket of being on the sharper end of fast-medium if not genuinely rapid.

I felt like the time was right for Jimmy to move on too though. His second innings returns slid away so drastically after that calf injury. A first innings bowler who doesn't bat is only a significant influence in 25% of the match. That's a big ol' issue. Plus he was truly awful in the Ashes. I think a tough situation was dealt with pretty well.

king_carlos wrote:His second innings returns slid away so drastically after that calf injury. A first innings bowler who doesn't bat is only a significant influence in 25% of the match. That's a big ol' issue.

It's so drastically overblown.

Since the start of Bazball, Jimmy averaged 23.52 in the 1st/2nd innings of a match and 27.65 in the 3rd/4th innings of a match*. You'd think his numbers were falling off a cliff the way some talk about it.

And even when Jimmy isn't taking wickets, he offers crucial control, better control than any other bowler England have, creating pressure and almost getting 'assists' for wickets at the other end.

Jimmy, gone too soon. Southgate, gone too late. There's a middle ground and a moral somewhere to be found.

And so what if he had one bad Ashes series? He's averaging 20 with the ball v every other opponent in the Bazball era (with not a run of difference in 1st/2nd v 3rd/4th innings contributions!). Is he not allowed one bad series? One strike and you're out?

His strike rate in the second innings is 80 since he hobbled off at Edgbaston in '19. In 33 Tests since the calf injury, he's taken more than 2 wickets in the second innings only 4 times I believe. He had a rebound where he was better in the second innings in 2022, then returned to being less effective as the match went on after that.

That's why folk talk like his numbers fell of a cliff after the calf injury, because it was a very clear turning point. He was brilliant in the second innings until he hobbled off at Edgbaston. Since then he's mostly struggled across 5 years and 33 Tests. Which is a giant sample size for that sort of stat.

Absolutely, the control is very valuable but I think that's more so overseas. Does Jimmy want to go to Pakistan? I doubt it. He's already said that he didn't think he could make it to Oz.

I mean, Woakes is being written off after one bad Test despite being fantastic last summer. So 4 genuinely dire Tests on the bounce doesn't seem insignificant for a bowler who has even fewer years ahead of them...?

Kind of academic debating whether Jimmy should have played on , is it not ? Can make fair arguments either way : I tend more to the view that he was still capable of doing a valuable job ; and I would have retained him over this home summer. (I agree some of the flak over an admittedly disappointing Ashes series was overdone). But since he was highly unlikely to tour Australia - or even Pakistan - it does make sense to have him "make room" to trial the next generation ahead of those tours.

Might it have been handled better ? End of season finish , home ground exit ? Maybe : but the ceremonial farewell at Lord's stayed just the right side
of too much sentiment and probably wasn't the worst ending for a great career. Wish he'd held that C&B though

As for Wood I reckon they just think West Indies are vulnerable to high pace and want to kill off the series now - which would make more scope for possibly fielding a rather inexperienced bowling group in the third game.

alfie wrote:
As for Wood I reckon they just think West Indies are vulnerable to high pace and want to kill off the series now - which would make more scope for possibly fielding a rather inexperienced bowling group in the third game.  

The last time England fielded an attack at home without both Broad and Anderson was vs the Windies in 2012 and was at Edgbaston too - the venue for the Third Test this time. And that was the (in)famous Tino Best making 95 against Onions, Finn, Bresnan test! So I can see there point about not going too weak - albeit most of those three were past their best in 2012.

king_carlos wrote:His strike rate in the second innings is 80 since he hobbled off at Edgbaston in '19. In 33 Tests since the calf injury, he's taken more than 2 wickets in the second innings only 4 times I believe. He had a rebound where he was better in the second innings in 2022, then returned to being less effective as the match went on after that.

That's why folk talk like his numbers fell of a cliff after the calf injury, because it was a very clear turning point. He was brilliant in the second innings until he hobbled off at Edgbaston. Since then he's mostly struggled across 5 years and 33 Tests. Which is a giant sample size for that sort of stat.

Absolutely, the control is very valuable but I think that's more so overseas. Does Jimmy want to go to Pakistan? I doubt it. He's already said that he didn't think he could make it to Oz.

I mean, Woakes is being written off after one bad Test despite being fantastic last summer. So 4 genuinely dire Tests on the bounce doesn't seem insignificant for a bowler who has even fewer years ahead of them...?

That's because he struggled in the immediate aftermath in 2020 and 2021. Then his second match innings SR was 121 and the average in the mid 40s. Since 2022, his SR has only been 7 higher than the first match innings, his average only 4 higher, and he does better in the fourth innings of a match than any other innings. In other words, he recovered from the dark days of 2020 and 2021, with good showings in 2022/2023/2024.

I don't think Woakes is being written off. We all know he shouldn't go to Australia, or indeed to Pakistan/NZ, but that's because of his long poor overseas record and essentially being a home specialist, not just off one test.

West Indies put England into bat on what looks a stunning day. Looks a very brave call. No confidence in their batting? Or have they discovered secret demons in the pitch?

No Motie for West Indies, that's a blow after the first test. He's ill, so Sinclair comes in.

Third ball duck for Crawley. Completely squared up there on a nice length from Joseph. Neat, low catch from Athanaze.

Genius call from the West Indies.

Crawley will be kicking himself for weeks at missing out on this. Looks pristine out there, backed up with typically short boundaries at Nottingham and a lightning outfield.

Could be 500 in a day this.

I am attending tomorrow - was hoping to see England bat on a road, but looks like a declaration at tea is on the cards here!

Why does WI not have a deep point for Duckett

Only one off that Holder over? Has Bazball gone woke?

Duty281 wrote:Third ball duck for Crawley. Completely squared up there on a nice length from Joseph. Neat, low catch from Athanaze.

Genius call from the West Indies.

A shame about the pies hurled down since that good start!

Away from this game, Rocky Flintoff has just notched up a ton for England U19s in a four day game v SL U19s.

Still just 16 years of age, playing against people 2/3 years older. He's going to have a great England career, isn't he?

To be fair to Crawley, he got a pretty good ball for the first over, and didn't do much wrong.

Since then, Duckett in particular has just destroyed the bowling, knocking the Windies completely off their rhythm.

Rather lively first hour

Questionable choice to field first here...must have felt good about it after the first over , but went south for them quite quickly from there ; though England seem to have dialled it back after the first few overs. Must reckon the power play was finished... A shame Motie was ruled out as he was about the only West Indies player to enhance his reputation at Lord's !

Run rate slowed to a trickle...under six now. Not good enough chaps Had wondered if Duckett was on course to take down the Jessop century record that has narrowly eluded Bairstow and Brook in recent years ; but it is looking less likely now...Still a hundred opening stand in 18 not too shabby... S Joseph seems to be in better shape than the previous game...and there's the break ! No hundred for Duckett.but a very nice 71.

Nearly a third just before lunch. Perhaps should have been taken.

134/2. West Indies pulled it back after Duckett's onslaught, but they've still got a hell of a lot to do.

Still can't fathom bowling first on this.

Can call that England's session , I think. Pope ticking along nicely and Root getting into his gears late in the action - though if he'd been caught then it would have changed things a bit. 134 from 26. And you'd imagine someone will go big today...

alfie wrote:Can call that England's session , I think. Pope ticking along nicely and Root getting into his gears late in the action - though if he'd been caught then it would have changed things a bit. 134 from 26. And you'd imagine someone will go big today...

100% England's session - as Duty has said, bizarre choice to bowl first today and having done so you'd really need the oppo to be 3 down at absolute worst to justify that decision.

Annoying for me too, going tomorrow I'm now going to have to watch Kraigg Brathwaite bat for 15 (64) for an hour and a half ain't I

Not a good shot from Root and then Pope gets dropped again! 146/4 wouldn't have been bad for the West Indies.

Quick chance that last one, but definitely should have been grasped.

Tame end for Root , who never got going after lunch. He will feel he's thrown it away on a day you'd normally expect him to have gone big Bowling much better now contrasting with the pie stall on offer early and England will not want to waste this platform...Oops nearly another one ! Pope riding his luck...

Bit of early short stuff here at Brook.

I was curious, Sky have flashed up that Brook's average v bouncers is 28.2.

West Indies took a couple of good catches before lunch...but they've subsequently dropped three. Probably going to cost them...

Hell of a celebration from Sinclair, as Brook falls tamely.

Brook's last eight 30+ scores have resulted in zero tons. There's a lack of ruthlessness running through the batting order, though Pope might do something about it.

201/4. Pretty decent fightback that. If they can limit England to 350, they might still be in the game.

Don't know what Brook was trying to do then ? Bit of a gift for West Indies and England not really taking total command on a good pitch...

Yeah, this wouldn't be too clever against better opposition, pretty sloppy. It's unlikely to hurt them in this match, but you never know given someone from the Windies will produce an extreme outlier performance at some point, as they always do against England

Pope closing in on a century. Strange innings : some lovely shots , good in taking advantage of a healthy ration of rubbish bowling - mixed with a generous helping of luck. On to 99 ...

Good century for Pope. Needs the runs.