Wales Summer Tour Squad

Squad announced:-

Forwards (22)

Corey Domachowski (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 10 caps)
Kemsley Mathias (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Gareth Thomas (Ospreys / Gweilch – 30 caps)
Elliot Dee (Dragons / Dreigiau – 51 caps)
Dewi Lake (Ospreys / Gweilch – 12 caps)
Evan Lloyd (Cardiff Rugby – 2 caps)
Sam Parry (Ospreys / Gweilch – 7 caps)
Keiron Assiratti (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 6 caps)
Archie Griffin (Bath Rugby – 1 cap)
Dillon Lewis (Harlequins – 57 caps)
Harri O’Connor (Scarlets – 1 cap)
Henry Thomas (Castres Olympique – 4 caps)
Ben Carter (Dragons / Dreigiau – 11 caps)
Cory Hill (Secom Rugguts – 32 caps)
Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs / Caerwysg – 17 caps)
Matthew Screech (Dragons / Dreigiau – 1 cap)
Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs / Caerwysg – 10 caps)
Mackenzie Martin (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 3 caps)
Jac Morgan (Ospreys / Gweilch – 15 caps)
Taine Plumtree (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Tommy Reffell (Leicester Tigers / Caerlŷr – 18 caps)
Aaron Wainwright (Dragons / Dreigiau – 48 caps)


Backs (14)

Ellis Bevan (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – uncapped / heb gap)
Gareth Davies (Scarlets – 76 caps)
Kieran Hardy (Scarlets – 21 caps)
Sam Costelow (Scarlets – 12 caps)
Mason Grady (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 11 caps)
Ben Thomas (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 2 caps)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens / Saraseniaid – 36 caps)
Owen Watkin (Ospreys / Gweilch – 38 caps)
Rio Dyer (Dragons / Dreigiau – 19 caps)
Keelan Giles (Ospreys / Gweilch – uncapped / heb gap)
Josh Hathaway (Gloucester Rugby / Caerloyw – uncapped / heb gap)
Liam Williams (Kubota Spears – 89 caps)
Jacob Beetham (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – uncapped / heb gap)
Cameron Winnett (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 5 caps)

Some really strange calls in there......but here are my thoughts:-

Jac Morgan at this point is our nailed on captain going into the next world cup and just come back from injury.  Given he has a big workload over 6 nations and November did he really need to go given he only just recovered from injury.  I dont see the point.  Reffell is a excellent stand in and he could have used it as a chance to play around with the backrow a bit.

No idea why Morgan Morris isn't being given a shot.  If he had done the above he probably could have been a 7 cover.

No idea why Ratti isn't in.  Covers lock, 6 & 8.  Given we have a injury at lock would have thought now might be the best chance to try him.  Especially when you consider the locks he has actually picked.  Screech should be getting nowhere near international duty.  I'm a Dragons fan and I would have put Nott in ahead of him.  

Watkins.  Gats blind faith in him im starting to find hard to explain.  There about 5 others off the top of my head I would have brought in ahead of him.

Williams.  He's been brilliant for Wales.  He really has.  But you have just picked both Hathaway and Winnett.  So he probably is now going to play Hathaway on the wing if at all.  Williams won't make the next world cup so why pick him now? Dont see how that helps us for the next 6 nations.

Giles?  He did have a good period at one point in the season but Cabango has looked much better.  Probably on form would have put Tomi Lewis ahead of Giles as well.

Beetham - Would have kept Thomas in as a Fly Half option instead and that would have moved room to bring more of the centres who actually should be getting picked.  I just hope he plays Grady at 13 as that is where I think he should be playing.

G.Davies - Again never making the World Cup.  Hardy probably starts but I would have invested in Blacker as Wales need to find a 3rd scrum half as backup.  

I wont bring up the Tightheads as I know we have issues there and hardly any options that are fit either.  

But for me a perfect chance to really pick some form players has gone begging here.....

Matthew Screech is in?!

The fact the Dragons have the same number of forwards in as the Ospreys really says something considering how poor our pack has been and how good the O's pack has looked.

Agree on most of the above, WM. Especially Giles and the omission of Morgan Morris.

He's dropped a load of the 6 Nations boys after saying that they would be kept in. To quote him: "We are going to keep going with these players through the summer tour. I don't see any point in bringing more experienced players who haven't been available for us during the Six Nations".

Watkin is in - Wait til Mikey sees that!

It’s bloody awful. Even some of Gatland’s simps are criticising this, which says a lot.

Often with these squads there are a not of naff calls but still it’s possible to pick out a fairly strong team (assuming no injuries) and then just assume that the rest are there for experience and getting in the ‘environment’. Not so this time it seems. What’s the best we can get from that lot? Here’s my stab at it:

Gareth Thomas
Dewi Lake
Dillon Lewis
Dafydd Jenkins
Ben Carter
Jac Morgan
Tommy Reffell
Aaron Wainwright

Gareth Davies
Sam Costelow
Rio Dyer
Nick Tompkins
Mason Grady
Josh Hathaway
Liam Williams

Not great, and not easy to do. The back 3 really lacks experience which I guess is why he’s brought back Liam Williams.

While I’d like to see Grady at 13 I suspect it will be Owen Watkin with Grady on the wing.

I'm not sure Hathaway is ready to be dropped straight into international rugby. He's quick and he could become a real threat but he's had only 5 starts in the league for Glaws and they were mostly towards the end of this season when Glaws stopped focusing on the league to try and succeed in Europe.

Taking him on tour is good development for the future.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'm not sure Hathaway is ready to be dropped straight into international rugby. He's quick and he could become a real threat but he's had only 5 starts in the league for Glaws and they were mostly towards the end of this season when Glaws stopped focusing on the league to try and succeed in Europe.

Taking him on tour is good development for the future.

Yeah, I was really struggling to be honest. Maybe Liam W on the wing and Winnett at FB. Just trying to avoid putting Watkin in the centre!

When Wales played Italy, Gareth Thomas and Dillon Lewis got battered in the scrum. I wonder what the excuse is for leaving out Nicky Smith, the best scrummaging LH, but the entire squad selection is all over the place anyway so no point in trying to figure out just the one. I can picture the backline being Costelow, Tompkins, Watkin... it'll ship at least 5 tries and score 0. I think it's disgusting what Gatland is continually doing to the Wales national team whilst getting 600K per year.

Terrible squad. To ignore a few of the Ospreys is crazy. The second rows are terrible and to call up Hill again is a poor look, given the allegations against the WRU and then Hill when he left Wales. Plus he isn’t playing a good level anyway.

Gatland really is stubborn and it isn’t doing him any favours. I guess it’s pretty easy when you’ve been given a contract and would get a big pay off. Can just do what he wants.

Oh and his interview on Wales Online. How doesn’t he get picked up on some of his quotes and reasoning for selection?

mikey_dragon wrote:When Wales played Italy, Gareth Thomas and Dillon Lewis got battered in the scrum. I wonder what the excuse is for leaving out Nicky Smith, the best scrummaging LH, but the entire squad selection is all over the place anyway so no point in trying to figure out just the one. I can picture the backline being Costelow, Tompkins, Watkin... it'll ship at least 5 tries and score 0. I think it's disgusting what Gatland is continually doing to the Wales national team whilst getting 600K per year.

I was thinking about this last night. It doesn't sit right with me that the head coach is on probably double the salary of any of the 'star' players. I don't think the head coach should earn more than the top players in any sport. Yes, perhaps earn more than the younger/fringe/emerging players. But the top salary in Wales now is around £200-300k I think for an experienced international and Lion. What's he do to command double that?

I'm sure that was his salary before he left. Wales had a slightly different pay structure back then, I guess he was able to negotiate that after some success and years of service. I can't think of many coaches on more, Eddie Jones and Pat Lam spring to mind. Nige and the rest of the Gatland brigade must have agreed to his conditions, which was to be reappointed on the previous salary and to conduct his own performance reviews. To conclude, he is getting 600K to kill off the national team and embarrass Wales on the world stage.

Apparently Gatland hasn't picked any of the other 10s because he wants to find a bigger option. All the 10s coming through are quite small.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Apparently Gatland hasn't picked any of the other 10s because he wants to find a bigger option. All the 10s coming through are quite small.

Yes a lot of them are small. Ben Thomas is a good player at 10 and 12, could be the next one off the rank - not a big guy either but around the same build as Mo'unga. Costelow is woeful, that's what a lot are annoyed about. Ioan Lloyd isn't in amazing form but he has a higher ceiling, IMO.

Gatland is in record as saying that ‘Warrenball’ came about as a result of a load of big fellas coming through at the same time for Wales, e.g. Jamie Roberts as a crash ball merchant. In other words he developed a gameplan and style around what was available. Can he not adapt his style to suit a glut of smaller players coming through now?

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Apparently Gatland hasn't picked any of the other 10s because he wants to find a bigger option. All the 10s coming through are quite small.

Yes a lot of them are small. Ben Thomas is a good player at 10 and 12, could be the next one off the rank - not a big guy either but around the same build as Mo'unga. Costelow is woeful, that's what a lot are annoyed about. Ioan Lloyd isn't in amazing form but he has a higher ceiling, IMO.

Costelow looks isolated when I've seen him at international level. Lloyd looks a very talented individual but from what I've seen his game management is somewhat absent. He'd be better used as a secondary playmaker which should ease the pressure on Costelow. There's a reason none of the big international sides play with only one playmaker in the backline currently.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Gatland is in record as saying that ‘Warrenball’ came about as a result of a load of big fellas coming through at the same time for Wales, e.g. Jamie Roberts as a crash ball merchant. In other words he developed a gameplan and style around what was available. Can he not adapt his style to suit a glut of smaller players coming through now?

I mean he did continue the same selection policy for years in Wales and then for the Lions so I'd take that as somewhat explaining the past as true retelling.

He could give himself a perfectly good backline with;

10. Costelow
11. Dyer
12. Tomkins
13. Grady
14. Winnet (I presume Adams is injured)
15. Lloyd (if he'd been selected)

No disrespect but if you think that is a perfectly good backline, god help you. Costelow was dropped in the 6 Nations for being poor, Dyer is quick and keen but I have real doubts about his top level ability, Tomkins selection has been questioned by lots of people, Grady has real potential, Adams has been 'rested' for being generally a dick and sh!t in the 6 Nations, Lloyd - I assume you mean Ioan who has not been picked as he is to little.

nlpnlp wrote:No disrespect but if you think that is a perfectly good backline, god help you.  Costelow was dropped in the 6 Nations for being poor, Dyer is quick and keen but I have real doubts about his top level ability, Tomkins selection has been questioned by lots of people, Grady has real potential, Adams has been 'rested' for being generally a dick and sh!t in the 6 Nations, Lloyd - I assume you mean Ioan who has not been picked as he is to little.

I'd make changes at 10, 12 and 14. It would be an odd reason to not select Lloyd because he's small but then also select Costelow. I think Lloyd has the higher ceiling and has actually played around the backline quite well. It's the worst squad I've seen from Gatland though, the guy hasn't got a clue what he's doing and it becomes more evident with each interview.

Have you all seen the SA squad? It doesn't include players based at UK, France and Ireland teams. It also doesn't include any Bulls players because they'll probably be playing in the URC final. I picked an SA team from that selected and I think it could put 50 on Wales.

nlpnlp wrote:No disrespect but if you think that is a perfectly good backline, god help you.  Costelow was dropped in the 6 Nations for being poor, Dyer is quick and keen but I have real doubts about his top level ability, Tomkins selection has been questioned by lots of people, Grady has real potential, Adams has been 'rested' for being generally a dick and sh!t in the 6 Nations, Lloyd - I assume you mean Ioan who has not been picked as he is to little.

Costelow is a young 10 learning at the highest level behind an average pack and without any playmaking assistance (unlike nearly every other international team). Wales don't have a better option.

Size doesn't make a massive issue at fullback (if you can select wingers that are passable under the high ball) and 5ft10 isn't that small. Dual playmakers would reduce the pressure that the Welsh halfbacks suffered under during the 6N.

The 6N was generally a mess because of Gatland refusing to move with the times. We saw England and Italy try and evolve their game plans. Wales tried to live in the past.

Botham called up into the squad. Good call I feel. Think he’s decent.

Yeah, probably had a case to have been called up in the first place.

Kind of forgot until yesterday that Wales were playing this weekend.

Edit - ooooh team announced today too. How exciting

Question is will Wales be home team at Twickenham or away on Saturday against SA.

We are the away team.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Botham called up into the squad. Good call I feel. Think he’s decent.

Good for Cardiff.... awful for Wales, been crap in every one of his caps. It should have been Ratti or Morris.

Or if Gatland was just desperate for another Cardiff player and open-side, then Thomas Young is probably a better choice.

mikey_dragon wrote:

nlpnlp wrote:No disrespect but if you think that is a perfectly good backline, god help you.  Costelow was dropped in the 6 Nations for being poor, Dyer is quick and keen but I have real doubts about his top level ability, Tomkins selection has been questioned by lots of people, Grady has real potential, Adams has been 'rested' for being generally a dick and sh!t in the 6 Nations, Lloyd - I assume you mean Ioan who has not been picked as he is to little.

I'd make changes at 10, 12 and 14. It would be an odd reason to not select Lloyd because he's small but then also select Costelow. I think Lloyd has the higher ceiling and has actually played around the backline quite well. It's the worst squad I've seen from Gatland though, the guy hasn't got a clue what he's doing and it becomes more evident with each interview.

Have you all seen the SA squad? It doesn't include players based at UK, France and Ireland teams. It also doesn't include any Bulls players because they'll probably be playing in the URC final. I picked an SA team from that selected and I think it could put 50 on Wales.

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/springboks/pieter-steph-named-captain-as-springboks-pick-4-debutants-for-wales-test-at-twickenham-20240618

Teams:

South Africa

15 Aphelele Fassi, 14 Edwill van der Merwe, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Andre Esterhuizen, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Jordan Hendrikse, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit (captain), 6 Kwagga Smith, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Vincent Koch, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Ox Nche

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Ntuthuko Mchunu, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Salmaan Moerat, 20 Ben-Jason Dixon, 21 Grant Williams, 22 Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, 23 Damian de Allende

Wales

15 Cameron Winnett, 14 Liam Williams, 13 Owen Watkin, 12 Mason Grady, 11 Rio Dyer, 10 Sam Costelow, 9 Ellis Bevan, 8 Aaron Wainwright, 7 James Botham, 6 Taine Plumtree, 5 Matthew Screech, 4 Ben Carter, 3 Henry Thomas, 2 Dewi Lake (captain), 1 Gareth Thomas

Substitutes: 16 Evan Lloyd, 17 Kemsley Mathias, 18 Keiron Keiron Assiratti, 19 James Ratti, 20 Mackenzie Martin, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Eddie James, 23 Jacob Beetham

Good old Gatland Ball being rolled out again. Play your biggest back out of position at 12 and isolate your 10 with no other backline playmakers against the most aggressive blitz defence in world rugby.

That's a beast of a Bok side as well. Bit green at flyhalf but both a good players and there's the option of SFM moving into the midfield or Hendrickse to 15 if they want to mix up their attacking structure. Being able to bring de Allende off the bench to replace big Andre for fresh bosh is a real strength.

protea438 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

nlpnlp wrote:No disrespect but if you think that is a perfectly good backline, god help you.  Costelow was dropped in the 6 Nations for being poor, Dyer is quick and keen but I have real doubts about his top level ability, Tomkins selection has been questioned by lots of people, Grady has real potential, Adams has been 'rested' for being generally a dick and sh!t in the 6 Nations, Lloyd - I assume you mean Ioan who has not been picked as he is to little.

I'd make changes at 10, 12 and 14. It would be an odd reason to not select Lloyd because he's small but then also select Costelow. I think Lloyd has the higher ceiling and has actually played around the backline quite well. It's the worst squad I've seen from Gatland though, the guy hasn't got a clue what he's doing and it becomes more evident with each interview.

Have you all seen the SA squad? It doesn't include players based at UK, France and Ireland teams. It also doesn't include any Bulls players because they'll probably be playing in the URC final. I picked an SA team from that selected and I think it could put 50 on Wales.

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/springboks/pieter-steph-named-captain-as-springboks-pick-4-debutants-for-wales-test-at-twickenham-20240618

Teams:

South Africa

15 Aphelele Fassi, 14 Edwill van der Merwe, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Andre Esterhuizen, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Jordan Hendrikse, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit (captain), 6 Kwagga Smith, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Vincent Koch, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Ox Nche

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Ntuthuko Mchunu, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Salmaan Moerat, 20 Ben-Jason Dixon, 21 Grant Williams, 22 Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, 23 Damian de Allende

Wales

15 Cameron Winnett, 14 Liam Williams, 13 Owen Watkin, 12 Mason Grady, 11 Rio Dyer, 10 Sam Costelow, 9 Ellis Bevan, 8 Aaron Wainwright, 7 James Botham, 6 Taine Plumtree, 5 Matthew Screech, 4 Ben Carter, 3 Henry Thomas, 2 Dewi Lake (captain), 1 Gareth Thomas

Substitutes: 16 Evan Lloyd, 17 Kemsley Mathias, 18 Keiron Keiron Assiratti, 19 James Ratti, 20 Mackenzie Martin, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Eddie James, 23 Jacob Beetham

South Africa by 70.

Wales were going to get a tuning anyway, but that selection is all over the place really.

I guess it shows the issue with Reffell being unavailable and Morgan being injured, but I don't really like the backrow, can't see the value in Screech starting (although I am glad Hill isn't involved) and the backline is pretty strange and likely to be under a lot of pressure. Liam Williams has no value on the wing for me, despite Cement Head thinking they will kick a lot.

Pretty poor form for Gatland to say this too, in my opinion.

Yesterday's Man wrote:Is the Exiles programme bearing fruit?
Gatland: "The more the merrier. It’s challenging at the moment when you look at the amount of non-Welsh qualified players at our regions. That’s a big challenge for us. There's still some players (exiles) out there who the regions may make contact with.

“We try to keep our finger pretty close to the pulse in terms of doing that. There’s players in NZ who have been playing Super Rugby with Welsh qualifications, who have played for Wales, who have told us about one or two. It’s up to them (regions) from there.”

"We haven’t been the most proactive with that as other nations have. We’ve had players in the past but you’ve got to find that balance from developing from within and rewarding that but also not excluding players from outside of Wales."

Firstly, I am not sure it's that accurate, because I think most teams field a majority of WQ players (for the good it does them). Secondly, it ignores the budget issues. NWQ players represent best value for money in terms of availability and also the fact is that Wales can't offer as much as other teams can for Super Rugby players. I am not sure a Welsh cap is that big a pull now.

Not sure why it is up to the regions to tap these players up anyway, when it's Gatland that wants them. Sounds a bit like the Feyi-Waboso situation, where he wants somebody else to do his work for him again.

Just read that Grady has made 81 tackles this season, missed 31! Jeez, didn’t know his defence was that bad. Gonna be a lot of traffic coming his way through the middle of the field. He needs to massively improve his tackle completion rate.

This has got massacre written all over it

I think some here are over reacting, even though thisis a decent bok team they will be disjointed, I doubt they will fire on all cylinders and the fact is Wales in their time with Gatland has always found a way to negate Bok rugby.

I predict they will play a similar game plan to what England did in the semi final last year. Won't take risks and nullify the Bok territorial game plan, refuse them any lineouts inside their half, kick long and play the patience game

The Boks will most definitely have to play from inside their half, something they as a general rule don't embrace

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Just read that Grady has made 81 tackles this season, missed 31! Jeez, didn’t know his defence was that bad. Gonna be a lot of traffic coming his way through the middle of the field. He needs to massively improve his tackle completion rate.

This has got massacre written all over it

But most of his games have been on the wing so it's not exactly fair to compare that to a centers stats. Also a lot will depend on the system Cardiff are using, so his tackling might not be as bad as it seems

carpet baboon wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Just read that Grady has made 81 tackles this season, missed 31! Jeez, didn’t know his defence was that bad. Gonna be a lot of traffic coming his way through the middle of the field. He needs to massively improve his tackle completion rate.

This has got massacre written all over it

But most of his games have been on the wing so it's not exactly fair to compare that to a centers stats. Also a lot will depend on the system Cardiff are using, so his tackling might not be as bad as it seems

I sort of see what you’re saying….but missing over a 3rd of all of his tackles suggests he’s a poor tackler/defender. And now he’s in the centre, in an unfamiliar position, against the best team in the world. So I feel he could be even more exposed. I’m not sure what evidence there is that he will suddenly be a top notch defensive player on Saturday compared to the rest of the season when he’s out of position? He won’t have a touch line to help him out either!

Old Man wrote:I think some here are over reacting, even though thisis a decent bok team they will be disjointed, I doubt they will fire on all cylinders and the fact is Wales in their time with Gatland has always found a way to negate Bok rugby.

I predict they will play a similar game plan to what England did in the semi final last year. Won't take risks and nullify the Bok territorial game plan, refuse them any lineouts inside their half, kick long and play the patience game

The Boks will most definitely have to play from inside their half, something they as a general rule don't embrace

I don’t think you realise how poor this Wales squad is, Old Man. In the past we could always muster up a solid first XV even when we had injuries and a lack of club form. But there’s been little succession planning, or at least if there was some of it has not paid off. The big names are gone. So we’ve now got very little top notch experience, lots of average club players suddenly thrust into international rugby, and very few stars.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Just read that Grady has made 81 tackles this season, missed 31! Jeez, didn’t know his defence was that bad. Gonna be a lot of traffic coming his way through the middle of the field. He needs to massively improve his tackle completion rate.

This has got massacre written all over it

But most of his games have been on the wing so it's not exactly fair to compare that to a centers stats. Also a lot will depend on the system Cardiff are using, so his tackling might not be as bad as it seems

I sort of see what you’re saying….but missing over a 3rd of all of his tackles suggests he’s a poor tackler/defender. And now he’s in the centre, in an unfamiliar position, against the best team in the world. So I feel he could be even more exposed. I’m not sure what evidence there is that he will suddenly be a top notch defensive player on Saturday compared to the rest of the season when he’s out of position? He won’t have a touch line to help him out either!

Good point. I suppose Saturday will give us the answer

The supporters need to start voting with their feet and wallets, don't watch it and don't buy the overpriced merchandise. We've got a union that's run the game in the ground, whom are backing up an overpaid and has-been coach who makes a fool of us on the world stage. There will be the usual cyber comments from simp-types saying "Supooorrtt ur team..." and "in GaTs we trust!" - I'm coming across these people often and it makes me realise how the entire country has been a mess throughout long periods in history. Very sad but anyway, rant done.

Henry Thomas OUT.
Keelan Giles OUT.
Assiratti IN (to the first XV)
Regan Grace called up.

I think they may call me up next!

Nuts how many players Gatland has broken, at the end of a pretty long season.

Has the Wales camp always been this bonkers?
Telling a player he's only here to help the others out and not giving him the same amount of kit, is a very special type of man management

carpet baboon wrote:Has the Wales camp always been this bonkers?
Telling a player he's only here to help the others out and not giving him the same amount of kit, is a very special type of man management

Who got that treatment?

It’s Sam Parry. Who is Parry better than? Lloyd, Daniel, Elias, among others. Parry is a good player and when available has consistently shown good form. To let him know that a player of his calibre was just there to hold tackle bags is despicable. Another wrong move by this useless and overpaid has-been.

Jesus f’ing wept! The wheels are truly coming off. I’ve backed Gatland a lot in the past but I’m tired of all the bullsh*t. He’s hardly ever in Wales. He’s making zany selections. And now he’s treating squad members like crap. He’s always seemed very player focused in the past, giving players time off for family reasons, etc., and has been praised for it by the players. But this is a real about turn. Another embarrassing episode. Who reckons he’s just looking for an exit and the WRU to buy him out of his remaining contract?! Because I don’t reckon he wants to be here anymore.

Sounds about right, I’m convinced he is trying to get sacked.

I still haven’t heard the reasons for the AWJ and Tipuric retirements before the World Cup. They both seemed very sudden and almost hushed. I wondered at the time if he’d lost the dressing room a bit. Admittedly, I might have missed news articles about the reasons. But were they ever fully explained?

So far it is much closer than the comments here suggested. Both teams still in it.

Well this result is going pretty much how i thought. wasnt even SA best 23.

The way we looked today we can forget the next WC and may as well focus on 2031. We just dont have a pack at the moment.

I'm also not sure I have faith in Gats at this point either......

Have to say, Harry O’Connor is the most useless player I’ve ever seen. How does Gatland justify that selection?

I know Winnett gets talked up a lot by WOL and some Cardiff fans, not sure why. He looks too average for this level.

I felt that only Dewi Lake has some credit after today.

Result was never in doubt. South Africa were deserved winners.
Wales outplayed and naive at times.
With my rose tinted glasses, I thought the ref missed an obvious and clear forward pass near the touch line which allowed a S.A. try (hands always going forward and ball floating 2 foot forward) and I can’t believe the S.A. deliberate knock on didn’t result in a penalty/yellow card. How that deliberate push out of the dead ball line was deemed an attempt at an actual catch is laughable‍�
I keep on saying I’m going to stop watching Wales games as my blood pressure rises with every minute of their games - I must be a masochist or something ‍�

Not a great game by the Boks, but at least they got their season going with an 80 minute performance of stop and start quality. I thought the tmo was a real pain in the backside, game was stop and start.

Van der Merwe and Sasha had good debuts, Boks just never seem to hit their straps when they play Wales

I thought SA were decent enough, but not amazing although they will have players to come back in and help that. They cruised pretty much, it was enough to demolish Wales. Considering there’s also no Bulls players there, it’s really good depth.