Wales Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

Squad announced:-

Forwards (22)

Corey Domachowski (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 10 caps)
Kemsley Mathias (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Gareth Thomas (Ospreys / Gweilch – 30 caps)
Elliot Dee (Dragons / Dreigiau – 51 caps)
Dewi Lake (Ospreys / Gweilch – 12 caps)
Evan Lloyd (Cardiff Rugby – 2 caps)
Sam Parry (Ospreys / Gweilch – 7 caps)
Keiron Assiratti (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 6 caps)
Archie Griffin (Bath Rugby – 1 cap)
Dillon Lewis (Harlequins – 57 caps)
Harri O’Connor (Scarlets – 1 cap)
Henry Thomas (Castres Olympique – 4 caps)
Ben Carter (Dragons / Dreigiau – 11 caps)
Cory Hill (Secom Rugguts – 32 caps)
Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs / Caerwysg – 17 caps)
Matthew Screech (Dragons / Dreigiau – 1 cap)
Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs / Caerwysg – 10 caps)
Mackenzie Martin (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 3 caps)
Jac Morgan (Ospreys / Gweilch – 15 caps)
Taine Plumtree (Scarlets – 2 caps)
Tommy Reffell (Leicester Tigers / Caerlŷr – 18 caps)
Aaron Wainwright (Dragons / Dreigiau – 48 caps)


Backs (14)

Ellis Bevan (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – uncapped / heb gap)
Gareth Davies (Scarlets – 76 caps)
Kieran Hardy (Scarlets – 21 caps)
Sam Costelow (Scarlets – 12 caps)
Mason Grady (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 11 caps)
Ben Thomas (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 2 caps)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens / Saraseniaid – 36 caps)
Owen Watkin (Ospreys / Gweilch – 38 caps)
Rio Dyer (Dragons / Dreigiau – 19 caps)
Keelan Giles (Ospreys / Gweilch – uncapped / heb gap)
Josh Hathaway (Gloucester Rugby / Caerloyw – uncapped / heb gap)
Liam Williams (Kubota Spears – 89 caps)
Jacob Beetham (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – uncapped / heb gap)
Cameron Winnett (Cardiff Rugby / Caerdydd – 5 caps)

The depth is definitely improving, it looks like Tony Brown is going to make a difference on attack as well. Lots of short offloads changing the point of impact, bodes well to improve our variety on attack.

Definitely time for Gatland to go.

Even his biggest supporters must be struggling to defend him now. Awful results. Awful manager of his squad and awful person, the more he speaks.

Old Man wrote:The depth is definitely improving, it looks like Tony Brown is going to make a difference on attack as well. Lots of short offloads changing the point of impact, bodes well to improve our variety on attack.

High quality coach. He'll do well at the Boks.

RiscaGame wrote:Definitely time for Gatland to go.

Even his biggest supporters must be struggling to defend him now. Awful results. Awful manager of his squad and awful person, the more he speaks.

Nope, they're still doing it somehow. Imagine believing that in spite of nothing changing, Gatland is going to suddenly one day make everything good again...

Gatland does seem to have a lot of critics. Does he have any vocal supporters among high profile pundits or former players?

Rugby Fan wrote:Gatland does seem to have a lot of critics. Does he have any vocal supporters among high profile pundits or former players?

The likes of Biggar and Warburton have always talked about him positively. Lots of ex Wales players have talked about the good environment he created. But that was previously and maybe this time around things aren’t quite the same? The back room staff are mostly changed from the Gatland ‘glory days’. Maybe they’re not quite as good with the players. Or maybe Gatland’s heart isn’t quite in it anymore? It would be hard for him to turn down the money that was on offer, but the fact he returned home to NZ after his first Wales stint suggests he’d prefer to be there than in Wales (it is home after all). Lots of criticism lately for the amount of time he spends at home now in between tournaments rather than being present and watching games/players in the flesh. Part of the latest participation agreement was closer ties between regions and Wales, and a key part of that was coaching clinics, knowledge exchange, Wales conditioning coaches working with the regions to get them all singing from the same hymn sheet, etc. Pretty hard to do that effectively from NZ. Some will say that he can send his assistants to do that. But not the same though for me.

Bloody hell. What on Earth is this?

Wales: L Williams (Kubota Spears); J Hathaway (Gloucester), O Watkin (Ospreys), M Grady (Cardiff), R Dyer (Dragons); B Thomas (Cardiff), E Bevan (Cardiff); G Thomas (Ospreys), D Lake (Ospreys, captain), A Griffin (Bath), C Tshiunza (Exeter), D Jenkins (Exeter), T Plumtree (Scarlets), T Reffell (Leicester), A Wainwright (Dragons).

Replacements: E Lloyd (Cardiff), K Mathias (Scarlets), H O’Connor (Scarlets), C Hill (Secom Rugguts), J Botham (Cardiff), K Hardy (Ospreys), S Costelow (Scarlets), N Tompkins (Saracens).

Wow, that's erm an experimental side. Reffell will look amazing playing on the back foot to the extent that team will be.

Wallabies team to face Wales
Australia: 15 Tom Wright, 14 Andrew Kellaway, 13 Josh Flook, 12 Hunter Paisami, 11 Filipo Daugunu, 10 Noah Lolesio, 9 Jake Gordon, 8 Rob Valetini, 7 Fraser McReight, 6 Liam Wright (c), 5 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, 4 Jeremy Williams, 3 Taniela Tupou, 2 Matt Faessler, 1 James Slipper
Replacements: 16 Billy Pollard, 17 Isaac Kailea, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Angus Blyth, 20 Charlie Cale, 21 Tate McDermott, 22 Tom Lynagh, 23 Dylan Pietsch

Isaac Kailea, Angus Blyth, Charlie Cale, Tom Lynagh – son of the great Michael Lynagh – and Dylan Pietsch are the uncapped quintet among the Wallabies replacements. Josh Flook and Jeremy Williams are the uncapped staters.

RiscaGame wrote:Bloody hell. What on Earth is this?

Wales: L Williams (Kubota Spears); J Hathaway (Gloucester), O Watkin (Ospreys), M Grady (Cardiff), R Dyer (Dragons); B Thomas (Cardiff), E Bevan (Cardiff); G Thomas (Ospreys), D Lake (Ospreys, captain), A Griffin (Bath), C Tshiunza (Exeter), D Jenkins (Exeter), T Plumtree (Scarlets), T Reffell (Leicester), A Wainwright (Dragons).

Replacements: E Lloyd (Cardiff), K Mathias (Scarlets), H O’Connor (Scarlets), C Hill (Secom Rugguts), J Botham (Cardiff), K Hardy (Ospreys), S Costelow (Scarlets), N Tompkins (Saracens).

Feel sorry for Carter who went well against SA I thought. Dropped entirely (and Screech) for Cory Hill from the Japan 3rd division. Nice.

I'm not a Watkin fan, but defensively he has been good for Ospreys this season. I'm therefore surprised that Grady gets the 12 shirt when he's very green as a centre and his tackle stats are poor. Plus, the 10 inside him (oo er) has never played 10 at this level. So a very raw and green 10-12 combo, with a scrum half with 1 game at this level. 9-10-12 looks exciting on paper but I hope they're not just being thrown to the wolves in good old Gatland 'sink or swim style'!

I quite like the balance of the backrow. 2nd row - I see both of the locks as being more hybrid backrow/2nd row players personally. I like at least 1 out and out 2nd row, but we're struggling for those at the moment. Gareth Thomas is solid in the front row; Lake is very good; Griffin an unknown and a bit of a risk, but we have to start blooding newbies I suppose. Still don't get why the likes of Smith are overlooked constantly.

Bench: whole pack replacements look weak. Don't mind Botham too much out of that lot. Backs are meh. I quite like Tompkins. Might have preferred to see him at 13 maybe (instead of Watkin) but I know he usually plays 12 and obviously Gatland has reverted to type on the type of 12 he wants

Are we allowed to call this a development tour?!

Watkin wasn’t good defensively against Bulls and Leinster. He offers nothing. I know people criticise Williams but he at least offers a lot more than Watkin. It’s another makeshift team, which is the result of Gatland spending all his time in NZ and then picking names out of a hat. He’s finally developed the gonads to drop Costelow but he still finds himself on the bench, which is probably the worst bench I’ve ever seen a team put out.

Wales can become good in the near future but it’ll require Gatland gone for that to happen. Now is a good time.

Is Jac Morgan still recovering from his knee?  I like the Wales back row when he plays, he has a lot of upside.  Reffell is so damn good, always knocks England about.  But Saints usually find a way to minimise the damage he causes, but Saints-Leicester is a bigger prize than England-Wales (or is it Wales-England?).....

So Carter is apparently managing a knock.

But there were still other options to Cory Hill. I don’t think Screech is international class, but he doesn’t deserve to be dropped in total for Hill. Ratti would be a better option. It’s a bad look for Gatland.

I thought Jac Morgan was fit, but just being rested?

doctor_grey wrote:Is Jac Morgan still recovering from his knee?  I like the Wales back row when he plays, he has a lot of upside.  Reffell is so damn good, always knocks England about.  But Saints usually find a way to minimise the damage he causes, but Saints-Leicester is a bigger prize than England-Wales (or is it Wales-England?).....

Reffell going off injured played a major part in swinging one of the Midlands derbies this season. Reffell and Montoya causing absolute chaos in the first half before Reffell's HIA.

Daffyd Jenkins isn't a hybrid lock to someone's earlier point. I had to double check on All Rugby but he has only the one start in the backrow and that was for Wales in the 6N against France. He's very much the starting lock for Chiefs (and seen as long term captain).

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow, that's erm an experimental side. Reffell will look amazing playing on the back foot to the extent that team will be.

Wallabies team to face Wales
Australia: 15 Tom Wright, 14 Andrew Kellaway, 13 Josh Flook, 12 Hunter Paisami, 11 Filipo Daugunu, 10 Noah Lolesio, 9 Jake Gordon, 8 Rob Valetini, 7 Fraser McReight, 6 Liam Wright (c), 5 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, 4 Jeremy Williams, 3 Taniela Tupou, 2 Matt Faessler, 1 James Slipper
Replacements: 16 Billy Pollard, 17 Isaac Kailea, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Angus Blyth, 20 Charlie Cale, 21 Tate McDermott, 22 Tom Lynagh, 23 Dylan Pietsch

Isaac Kailea, Angus Blyth, Charlie Cale, Tom Lynagh – son of the great Michael Lynagh – and Dylan Pietsch are the uncapped quintet among the Wallabies replacements. Josh Flook and Jeremy Williams are the uncapped staters.

Experimental the right word! Joe Schmidt era starting with a clean slate it would seem.

Front row and back row is very strong and that's a classy back 3. Everything else is very much unknown though. I don't think that is an Aussie team to fear.

It's a good 9-10-12 combination for the Wallabies. Seems to be the form options from what I've seen. Whether they can step up and establish themselves as regular internationals we will see.

formerly known as Sam wrote:It's a good 9-10-12 combination for the Wallabies. Seems to be the form options from what I've seen. Whether they can step up and establish themselves as regular internationals we will see.

Jake Gordon at 9 is class and experienced but is coming on the back of a dreadful Waratahs season where he was captain. Maybe without the pressure of carrying the entire team he can just concentrate on his game.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Is Jac Morgan still recovering from his knee?  I like the Wales back row when he plays, he has a lot of upside.  Reffell is so damn good, always knocks England about.  But Saints usually find a way to minimise the damage he causes, but Saints-Leicester is a bigger prize than England-Wales (or is it Wales-England?).....

Reffell going off injured played a major part in swinging one of the Midlands derbies this season. Reffell and Montoya causing absolute chaos in the first half before Reffell's HIA.

Daffyd Jenkins isn't a hybrid lock to someone's earlier point. I had to double check on All Rugby but he has only the one start in the backrow and that was for Wales in the 6N against France. He's very much the starting lock for Chiefs (and seen as long term captain).

That was me! Maybe I was thinking of his father! But I know Dafydd started in the back row before moving to lock. Wasn't saying he is a hybrid. More that I see him as a hybrid type player in that he can play both. Seems to have the engine, work rate and tackling to make a good 6. But as you point out that's not how Exeter see him at all, so maybe it's just me

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Is Jac Morgan still recovering from his knee?  I like the Wales back row when he plays, he has a lot of upside.  Reffell is so damn good, always knocks England about.  But Saints usually find a way to minimise the damage he causes, but Saints-Leicester is a bigger prize than England-Wales (or is it Wales-England?).....

Reffell going off injured played a major part in swinging one of the Midlands derbies this season. Reffell and Montoya causing absolute chaos in the first half before Reffell's HIA.

Daffyd Jenkins isn't a hybrid lock to someone's earlier point. I had to double check on All Rugby but he has only the one start in the backrow and that was for Wales in the 6N against France. He's very much the starting lock for Chiefs (and seen as long term captain).

Tommy Reffell and Julián Montoya are two of the best players in the game right now in my opinion. And they always do well - they are currently the two best players in the Tigers squad though that may change soon. And they were playing quite well, but to say they were causing chaos against Saints is just a bit overstated.

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Is Jac Morgan still recovering from his knee?  I like the Wales back row when he plays, he has a lot of upside.  Reffell is so damn good, always knocks England about.  But Saints usually find a way to minimise the damage he causes, but Saints-Leicester is a bigger prize than England-Wales (or is it Wales-England?).....

Reffell going off injured played a major part in swinging one of the Midlands derbies this season. Reffell and Montoya causing absolute chaos in the first half before Reffell's HIA.

Daffyd Jenkins isn't a hybrid lock to someone's earlier point. I had to double check on All Rugby but he has only the one start in the backrow and that was for Wales in the 6N against France. He's very much the starting lock for Chiefs (and seen as long term captain).

Tommy Reffell and Julián Montoya are two of the best players in the game right now in my opinion.  And they always do well - they are currently the two best players in the Tigers squad though that may change soon.  And they were playing quite well, but to say they were causing chaos against Saints is just a bit overstated.  

First Vs eighth. Best attack in the league Vs one of the worst. Tigers iirc didn't concede a try in the first half whilst Reffell was on the pitch and went into half time with a narrow lead having fouled up the Saints breakdown. I'll refine it to causing chaos at the breakdown with Saints having to commit more numbers to keep hold of slower ball.

Reffell being one of the best opensides in the game whilst on the back foot. He makes a lot of tackles and is good at slowing the ball down even if he doesn't steal it. Gives very few penalties away. Others like Morgan offer Wales more ball in hand.

Wallabies looking much the better team so far with Wales giving away a lot of penalties, and down to 14 now. Plenty of the game left to play though.

And just like that Wales strike back after a brave call to go to the corner instead of points, and a yellow for the Aussie too.

Tell you what this ref is trying to set a new world record for the most number of penalties called in a game.

Wales’ set piece is a nightmare. It’s not as if our bench can impact that either.

I’m surprised we got the ball away from that. Did well.

Incredibly scrappy first half to put things mildly. Lots of errors, lots of turnovers, lots of penalties.

Aussies started well but Wales came straight back in it then the last 20 was a bit of a scrap.

One for the purists!

I’m not neutral, but I’ve been pretty disengaged. I don’t think that prolonged welcome to country helped matters either though, as much as I love tradition and all that.

Rubbish.

Joe Schmidt must be wondering how much work he's got ahead of him. So much brainless play - why the Hail Mary from the 10?

A common theme from the Super Rugby season too - I don't think the Aussie players are fit enough.

Finally the game sparks into life! Can Wales conjure io a try to give an exciting finish to a pretty poor game?

Well the Wallabies were deserved winners in the end having finally managed to take their opportunities. Plenty to work on for them though.

Similar story for Wales - no lack of effort and bravery, just sorely lacking in experience and test class players. Give this group 5 years and they could be on top again.

Wainwright is an absolute machine!

11th in the world rankings, a new low for Wales

Gatland is still in a job so things will only get worse. Thankfully that game against the Reds doesn’t count towards the rankings.

Gatland seems pretty blasé about our ranking. He needs to be put under a lot more pressure than he is.

He knows that he’s untouchable. We can’t afford to sack him and pay him out! Who gives out 5 year contracts anyway?! Especially after the debacle with Shaun Edwards when they would only offer him a 2 year contract.

Didn't Gatland offer to go in the 6N and your CEO defended him to the hilt. He's obviously got a plan to redevelop the Welsh national playing resources but he's going to have to take some time to do it. The Gatland ball style will be at the heart of it as well it seems.

I think that resignation offer was a load of bull.

WRU won’t sack him and he would never resign and lose out on a hefty payout.

Looking forward to seeing how low we can go.

Wainwright out for 4 months with a torn hammy. Gutted. Will miss a few months of the Dragons season too.

Wales team v Aus for 2nd Test:

Wales: Cameron Winnett; Liam Williams, Owen Watkin, Mason Grady, Rio Dyer; Ben Thomas, Ellis Bevan; Gareth Thomas, Dewi Lake (capt), Archie Griffin, Christ Tshiunza, Dafydd Jenkins, James Botham, Tommy Reffell, Taine Plumtree.

Replacements: Evan Lloyd, Kemsley Mathias, Harri O'Connor, Cory Hill, Mackenzie Martin, Kieran Hardy, Sam Costelow, Nick Tompkins.

Not a huge amount of change - Botham into the BR as Waino is out.  Plumtree to 8 - has he much experience there?  Not sure where he's played in the past.  Winnett to FB with Liam W shifted to wing.  Hathaway dropped entirely?  Way to build a lad's confidence, Wozza!  Or was he injured?  Can't remember. Edit: yes confirmed he has an elbow injury. So I take it all back, but WG does have form for that sort of thing

Bench still lacking stars.  A bit of impact from Martin I suppose.  The rest are very meh.

Ben Thomas must have his boots on the wrong feet.

Great try by Australia, to be fair. Plumtree shouldn’t have over committed though.

Stinking weather.

Welcome to Melbourne in July!

Stinking team, Wales are shocking. How the people in charge think they can repeat the same thing over and over, and expect a different result is crazy. Gatland is 100% responsible for the last 8 losses, which will soon be 9/10.

Oh heck.

think a yellow would be fair result here. There was head contact but the defender was crouched down and not sure how much more the could have done.

It remains a yellow - good call

Yellow is fair, I still always expect them to be Red though, after we were drilled into thinking everything is Red.

Oh heck. Cement Head is going to have to get his notebook out, ready for his full time whinge.

Agree on the reasoning just. Do think he’s set a little high, but Griffin does dip.

AWJ is right to mention the hit on Botham too.

Just put the game on (right after Liam Williams try).  Like the little pushing and shoving
.

Are we really spending so much time reviewing this

Haven’t we had this Georgian ref before? He lacks bottle, which he just showed again.

How do you not see a guy with an Afro like that, slip in front of the lineout catcher?