Ulster Discussion Thread

[Kingshu]

First topic message reminder :

In a backrow of Izzy,Timoney and McCann and any Ulster fan will tell you its McCann whos played the best this season. But the other two are the ones called up. It appears that for Ulster players for national selection you are soley judged on the games V Leinster and Munster, the rest of the season the selectors arnt watching. Izzy and Timoney both had great games V them and had some great highlights, McCann was good but no real showreel moments in those games.

[formerly known as Sam]

You could almost forget about the fact that no club, even Leinster, want to squander money.

Is hoarding resources, ensuring your squad depth is ridiculous whilst simultaneously stopping the competition from accessing the limited resource (IQ players) really squandering money? Sounds like a very good use of resources if you're a Leinster director looking to ensure Irish provincial dominance.

It's a bad use of resources if you are the IRFU, hence why I said incentivise movement between provinces. Limiting the number of central contracts per province, making promises of central contracts if the player moves between province are options. Stopping Farrell selecting Leinster squad players would be a good start. Might cause issues in the IRFU and Leinster relationship mind.

[carpet baboon]

Will Zak ward come back to 15s after the olympic?

[geoff999rugby]

Yes.

He will be in the Acdemy - Year 1

[carpet baboon]

I say get the lad in with the seniors. He's a seriously powerful fella

[Pete330v2]

He looks phenomenal in the 7s but that doesn't always transfer to the 15 game. If he's one of the cases where the skills transfer then get him on the senior teams ASAP, he's 25 and time waits for no man.

[geoff999rugby]

To add what Pete said there needs to be a serious reining in of expectations regarding Ward.
He will be 26 in December, he has done nothing in the XV's game.
It is a hard transition from Sevens to 15s.
Hansen and Baloucoune have done it - but they are backs which is a lot easier.

On the other board there was reference to Chris Henry being a late start.
He first played for Ulster at 22.
He was in full Ireland squads when he was younger than Ward is now.

Ward is still at first base.

Also he will find it very difficult to get any look in

Cormac Izuchukwu, Nick Timoney, David McCann are all on the frimge of the Ireland set up
Reuben Crothers,Lorcan McLoughlin, James McNabney are highly talented young players
Matthew Rea, Sean Reffell, Marcus Rea are solid squad players

Thats a lot of traffic - he is behind them all
He may well developer and prove to be a useful squad player
No way will he play this coming season

He may never make the transition

[Pete330v2]

He'd really need to transition amazingly well to bypass any of our back rowers, it would take a bit of a rugby miracle to be honest. I actually think he'd be better off forgetting the Ulster dream and sticking 100% with the Irish 7s. He dominates in 7s and could be a Irish 7s god over the coming years, without the rugby miracle he'll be lucky to get games in the AIL and would be remembered as an also ran IMO.

[Welshmushroom]

Any news on if Ulster are making any other new additions. Looking at the leavers over incoming they look slightly worse for experience.

Given its only 6-7 weeks out to the new campaign (not including any friendlies) you would have thought transfers must be close to done if not already finished.

Not sure based on that they will finish 6th or higher next season. Should still be good enough to make the top 8 though.

[Pete330v2]

Any news on if Ulster are making any other new additions.  Looking at the leavers over incoming they look slightly worse for experience.  

Given its only 6-7 weeks out to the new campaign (not including any friendlies) you would have thought transfers must be close to done if not already finished.  

Not sure based on that they will finish 6th or higher next season.  Should still be good enough to make the top 8 though.

None that I've heard of, there aren't even rumours on t'other forum which is where many of them tend to spring from. The guys on the Red Hand podcast mentioned that we were talking to a prop, I can't remember if he specified TH or LH but if O'Toole is to be moved to LH then we'd be in desperate need of a TH. The official word is that there will be no signings though so if there are a couple more then it'll be an unexpected surprise.

[Welshmushroom]

Do you think the World Cup had any impacts on Ulster? How do you rate their chances this year?

[Pete330v2]

Do you think the World Cup had any impacts on Ulster?  How do you rate their chances this year?

World cup? What world cup?

Hard to say what our chances are to be honest. I can't speak for everyone but I reckon a lot depends on how players like Morgan get on and how healthy we can keep the front row in particular. We certainly won't flog the life out of Marty Moore so if Wilson can continue his journey it will be helpful. We are an injury or 2 away from a crisis at prop but we can wait and see if the IRFU can help in any way. I won't be holding my breath.
Enough pessimism......We do the ability to field a bloody useful match day 23. Morgan and Kok can bring a lot to the party in the fresh energy they'll bring. I'm excited to see what the real Ritchie Murphy era will bring with his short time at the wheel so far being a success. What happens next we'll have to wait and see but it's not all as doom ridden as we felt at one stage last season.

I'm sure you've been asked before but which of the Welsh regions are you attached to and how do you feel about the season we're not far from beginning?

[Welshmushroom]

I'm a Dragons fan.

I think looking at the Club movements this summer its clear a lot of the big guns have recruited really well in a lot of cases. Dai at the Dragons I think really missed the boat though this summer. He's kept a lot of players on that I would have let go who no doubt are on fairly big money.

He should have gone for a big name clear out and really focused on putting a good pack together. Our back 3 I think could do amazing but they simply wont get the platform. I'm not sure im hopeful for next season. Our only positive is we have some SA games at home in the early rounds (R3&R4) which probably is the best time given a lot of SA internationals will be rested after the Championship no doubt.

I'm trying to stay positive and there are a couple of signings I'm looking forward to seeing next year so there is that. But Flanagan hasn't learnt last seasons lessons. The URC has changed into a physical beast since the SA teams joined. Ospreys showed even without a descent backline you can still win a fair few games if you have a dominant pack. But Dragons probably will need to be content again with 15th / 16th place next season.

[carpet baboon]

For me Ulster have the potential to be a top 6 team but............ It's a bloody big but...... It will all depend on keeping players fit, and how quickly some of our young lads can turn the potential they have shown into consistent URC level performance.

Personally I think this year we will pull off some impressive wins and lose a few we should win.

But i honestly believe that, with the right coaching, in about 4 years Ulster will be fighting for top spot in the league and be a genuine contender in Europe. With 4-5 regular Ireland internationals in the team and a couple more fighting for wider squad spots

[geoff999rugby]

I think Ulster will be stronger next year than last.

In the end who have we really lost?
Kitshoff - who simply didn't make a big impact for all he status in the World Game - very disappointing
Addison - a few moments of sheer class but a few blunders too. Also unlikely to be fit through a season.

By contrast some players have come of age - Sheridan, McCann and Izzy.
Some who had a bit of a 2nd season syndrome last year - Doak, Stewart will kick on.
We found a tight head from nowhere - Wilson.
All those players will be better next year than last

Stronger coaching team than last year - look how O'Sullivan, O'Connor, Cooney, Izzy, Baloucoune and Stockdale
improved soon after Murphy joined.
We have got rid of the dead wood in coaching set up (with the exception of Bell who hopefully will be sidelined for a year)

There is some doubt about our front five.

Hooker is well covered

Lock is ok provided we dont get significant injuries at Lock.
Need Hopes and Irvine to start to show next year.

Prop is an issue but TH is stronger than last year provide O'Toole is allowed to play there - we had no Moore last year
and Wilson was not around at the start of the season.
LH we have O'Sullivan back who we effectively lost under McFarland amd Reid was injured all season and should be back.
Having said all that I think it is a racing certainty we will need emergency cover if Ireland want O'Toole to covert to LH.
You cannot have just 1 full professional on the books at TH - absolutely stupid and short sighted by the IRFU.
Get a player in now rather than rush around in a panic at the end of September.
If O'Toole isn't moving to LH then the SA squad selection makes no sense.
At least one of Doak, Boal and Boyd need to step up this year.

I'll stick with last years (correct) prediction 5th to 8th in the league.
Given 5/6 points is usually enough I think we will qualify for the European knock outs next year.
Both home games are winnable and Leicester away is not a lost cause.

That will be as far as we go.

So we will be stronger but so will a number of other teams - the league itself will be stronger

[Unclear]

Got to like the optimism Geoff, unless you are the sort of glass half empty person I am. You seem to have forgotten the loss of Burns for a start. Billy B may not have been the greatest 10 ever, but he was passable at league level at least and we don't really know how the new guy will work out. To say Doak and Stewart had second season syndrome is an understatement. And O'Connor's body seemed to be giving out however much he has given to club over years.

I'll give you the vast improvement likely in coaching though, and that is what gives me hope. Under Macfarland we were playing as less than the sum of the parts too frequently, and expect Murphy to be able to turn that around.

But given the lack of depth and experience in so many areas, I hope for top eight rather than expect it this year.

[geoff999rugby]

Burns was nothing special - a steady eddie.
No length on his kicking and no threat running with ball in hand.
He was brave and a a honest pro prepared to put his body on the line but not much else.
From what I have seen of Morgan he has far more potential.

I would not over dramatise Doak and Stewarts drop in form - same happened to Hume and he was looking good last year until his injury.
Stewart needs to work on his throwing technic and bulk up a bit.
Both easily fixable with a decent coaching set up.
Dont blame him for not scoring as many tries- our maul fell apart last year.
Doak likewise need good coaching he has the skills.

This year I would not be surprised if Izzy and Wilson take a bit of a dip - hopefully wrong.
McCann and Sheridan I dont see it happen they are two hard nosed illegitimate childen ala POM (thats a compliment)
They will not be taking a step back.

AOC picked up a bit once the coaching team was changed.
The big difference next year is he wont be first choice; should be fine as a backup.

We have better cover than last year.
Crothers and McNabney will be knocking at the door this coming year.
Lock is no worse and as I said we will end up getting an emergency prop for sure.

I am confident we will be top 8
We are a better team than everyone bar the best in SA, Glasgow, Leinster and Munster

I think Munster have some serious problems at Prop and Centre

[geoff999rugby]

Ignoring Hume her's my suggested ranking order

O'Sullivan, Herring, O'Toole
Henderson, Sheridan
Izzy, McCann, Timoney
Cooney, Morgan
Stockdale, McCloskey, Kok, Baloucoune
Lowry

Warwick, Stewart, Wilson/Moore
O'Connor, Treadwell
McNabney, Matty Rea, Crothers
Doak, Flannery
Sexton, Postlewaite, Moore, Moxham
McIlroy

Sexton aside not a bad 2nd XV

[Unclear]

I hope you are right Geoff, but everyone (apart from perhaps the Welsh due to their organisational problems) is improving. I can easily see us battling Connacht/Edinburgh/Benetton/Ospreys for 7th and 8th spots. If the coaching (especially in defence) is what we are hoping for then it should all be fine injuries apart.

What has happened with Marcus Rea? A couple of years ago he was significantly ahead of his brother performance wise but he seems to have disappeared. Matty seems to have improved significantly with the new regime. He's not a first choice but I no longer hold my head in my hands when he comes on.

[geoff999rugby]

Marcus Rea disappeared last year performance wise.

He needs to up his game - hopefully the new coaching set up will work for him.

Trouble is Crothers has emerged and for me Crothers has a far higher ceiling

[geoff999rugby]

I put Glasgow, Munster, Leinster, Sharks, Stormers and Bulls above us.

Below that Treviso and Lions are the biggest threat

We are definitely a better team than Connacht, Edinburgh and Ospreys.
Sure we can lose a one off game against them but over a season we are better.

I also think the fixture list suits us - we have only lost two games at home in the last few seasons (last year one of those was Toulouse)
We have Glasgow, Ospreys, Sharks and Stormers at home.
The saffers often dont come north fully loaded and Glasgow at home first game of the season is a plus for us.
We will be favourites for all 4 of those.

[carpet baboon]

Crothers was a grand slam winning captain under Murphy at u20s I can see him getting a good amount of game time.
Him Timoney and McCann is a pretty dynamic backrow. But I liked the way Timoney McCann and Izzy played together. It's good to have competition.
If reffell stays fit, and the Rea's up there game, with young Ward pushing them we have some good options in the back row.
I know Richie used Hopes at 6, so he's another option, but would rather he stuck to second row, and I forgot about Mcnabey.
We have the potential for a very good back row, and above URC average cover.

Still concerned about starting the season with only Moore and poselthwait as our only centers (I'm assuming Stu will be rested after his cameo in the last test) not seen anything from Moxham to suggest he's good enough, and would rather we used kock as a winger

A lots going to depend on how quickly our new 10 gets going.
I'm quite excited for the start of the season

[carpet baboon]

I meant Carson, not Moxham

[Poorfour]

How's Craig Newby getting on with Ulster?

He was due to be my daughter's DoR (and was a major influence in choosing her school) but got poached by Ulster the summer before she started. It's all worked out okay, but she had to spend the past three years educating the new DoR (who had only coached boys before) how girls' rugby works.

Don't begrudge him moving at all - when pro rugby calls, you answer - but I hope it was worthwhile for him.

[carpet baboon]

Think he's at Ealing now.

[geoff999rugby]

Carson is not good enough to make it.
Newby was a failure as a coach - brought nothing to the party

[clivemcl]

Most boring kit ever? Or just me?

I don't mind the grey detailing and lettering, but the lack of red really bothers me.

[Don Alfonso]

I actually really like it.

[clivemcl]

Each to their own I guess. Put I'm as pale as a ghost - so white is always a difficulty for me!

[geoff999rugby]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/articles/cvgdljzx2npo

One thing I note is how we waste money on sub standard players.
I get it at prop but serious what was the point of

22-23
Declan Moore
Frank Bradshaw-Ryan
Shea O'Brien

play the youngsters instead

Its better now but can someone please tell me why we have 5 Scrum halves on the books
Either McKee has real potential in which case Shanahans contract should not have been renewed
or he isn't up to it which case he should have been sent packing

Of course there is the old chesnut - what exactly is the point of Sexton

[geoff999rugby]

Overall we seem to have a CEO who has his head screwed on (at last!)

Staying till the end of 2025

[clivemcl]

Just seen the alternate kit. Probably buy that one. Wish they had put the details in red on the main kit. But I see why they wanted to do all white like the old historical kit.

But here's what the main kit could look like with the alternate kits detailing.

[Don Alfonso]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/articles/cvgdljzx2npo

One thing I note is how we waste money on sub standard players.
I get it at prop but serious what was the point of

22-23
Declan Moore
Frank Bradshaw-Ryan
Shea O'Brien

play the youngsters instead

Its better now but can someone please tell me why we have 5 Scrum halves on the books
Either McKee has real potential in which case Shanahans contract should not have been renewed
or he isn't up to it which case he should have been sent packing

Of course there is the old chesnut - what exactly is the point of Sexton

Agreed with all but O'Brien - he was a young player, had done very well at club level, we didn't know if Addison was going to make it back.

[Poorfour]

Think he's at Ealing now.

Seems he is. Thanks.

[Kingshu]

See bradley roberts has had to retire, which is a shame Ewers also signed short term with stormers

[geoff999rugby]

I've lost count of the players 'doing well at club level' who join the squad but never make it.

Bradley Roberts was a notable exception

[carpet baboon]

Zak Ward confirmed to the Ulster senior squad.
Hopefully he can do a Timoney and transfer to 15s.
Gives us a lot of options in the back row

[geoff999rugby]

He is joining the senior squad as a Trialist to see how it goes.
I would still be amazed if he was to start any games this year given our
1st choice backrow and McNabney and Crothers being so promising.

[Don Alfonso]

Is he joining as a back row? Don't see that anywhere.

[carpet baboon]

To be fair I think his younger brother would be ahead of him too.
Maybe we could convert him into a 12. We're a bit short of centers

[carpet baboon]

Is he joining as a back row? Don't see that anywhere.

As far as I'm aware he has always been a backrow in 15s

[carpet baboon]

Just seen on other forum it being suggested he's been signed as a winger. Will be interesting to see where Murphy plays him

[geoff999rugby]

Is he joining as a back row? Don't see that anywhere.

This link says he joined the Academy as a back rower
https://ulster.rugby/content/ulster-rugby-academy-202425

[geoff999rugby]

Looking at that Academy list I have high hopes (and not just Joe )
It is as strong as its been in years

[Don Alfonso]

Is he joining as a back row? Don't see that anywhere.

This link says he joined the Academy as a back rower
https://ulster.rugby/content/ulster-rugby-academy-202425

That's Bryn Ward?

Also, Humphreys not good enough? Gone?

[geoff999rugby]

Doh...mixing up my Wards

James Humphreys has been given a Development contract along with

Lorcan McLoughlin
James McNabney
Scott Wilson

James McCormick has had his Development contract extended a year
So 5 Development contracts in total

[Don Alfonso]

Ah, cheers.

[Welshmushroom]

I put Glasgow, Munster, Leinster, Sharks, Stormers and Bulls above us.

Below that Treviso and Lions are the biggest threat

We are definitely a better team than Connacht, Edinburgh and Ospreys.
Sure we can lose a one off game against them but over a season we are better.

I'm assuming therefore you would be happy with a 7th/8th place for the season given 6 teams. To be fair all of those do have a better 23 than Ulster so probably a wise prediction on your part.

Benetton have an advantage over Ulster (or at least have had one the past the URC seasons). Duel fixtures against Zebre is an advantage for Glasgow, Edinburgh & Benetton. I also think they have Ulster at home this season so that could be crucial as well. I also think they have a better home/away draw this season than Ulster as well. Ulster will have their work cut out for them to edge them to 7th.

I do think Benetton lost a bit in the summer with some big names heading out. Ulster have cut as well though so probably on par with them on the transfer market.

I dont think Lions will be as strong this season. They have been gutted in the off season with some key players heading out. I don't think they will be as good this season. They have no chance at 8th in my eyes.

Realistically the real threat for 8th probably come from Edinburgh & Ospreys. I do think your side is better than those but not by a margin that will allow your side to play under 90%.

It's probably safe to say every side in the URC knows now there will be very few give me games coming next year. Each season the standard raised was a notch up. There's hardly any games now you can go less than 100% at unless you are prepared to take the loss.

I will say the Sharks on paper are better than Ulster. Their transfers are nuts. But who knows if they actually gel quickly enough. They could end up in 12th. Granted if they did I would be sacking their coach given the finance they have been given.

[Don Alfonso]

I think if you look any deeper than the transfer of players, you've a much more reason to expect more as an Ulster supporter.

For most of last season, we had a coach who had apparently overseen the squad split into two camps, was becoming more and more conservative and reactive rather than proactive. Completely lost the dressing room. It was so bad that we pressed the nuclear button and got rid of him (and subsequently the CEO) about two-thirds of the way through the season.

The coach who came in to replace him was an U20s Ireland coach who had won multiple Grand Slams (featuring - and captained by - young Ulster players) and an ex-Ireland international skills coach. As soon as he came in, we saw a considerable improvement in performances, and he will have had a pre-season with the players this summer.

Do I think we'll be better this season than we were in a season during which we dumped the two most crucial and grievously under-performing behind-the-scenes figures in the set-up? Markedly so.

[Welshmushroom]

Key for them will be keeping their 23 fit. Any major injuries to key players could derail their season. On paper I dont doubt that side but their new 10 needs to come good quickly. Be interesting to see which style he brings to the team.

It's behind those 23 a lot of their youngster will need to make sure the second season syndrome is a one off. Its usually what makes or breaks young talent from becoming the players we see in their first season. Doak for example will need a big season this year. From what I saw of Wilson last year im on the fence with him. As a tighthead you simply have to be strong at scrum time and he wasnt great there in the games I saw him. Sure he was excellent in terms of carries, tackles and rucks but 3 is such a key set piece position. He is very young though so he has plenty of time to develop that area of his game.

I do think though they are good enough for 7th assuming Sharks actually perform in the league and that they keep most their guys fit. I suspect the teams between 7th and 11th will probably be depend very heavily on being able to put their best 23's out without suffering injuries. Will make it another interesting year though.

One thing is for sure - I'd take that Ulster squad over what we have at the Dragons. Its going to be a real hard watch for us this year I reckon.

[Don Alfonso]

I think you must have seen an outlier game to Wilson. He's absolutely excellent in the scrum for his age. Ox Niche was basically propelling O'Toole through the sky and we brought on Wilson instead and the scrums completely settled. Of course he's had good games and bad but he's for the most part excellent there.

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