The Haka - how would you handle it?

First topic message reminder :

Thought I would start a thread on the most recognisable rugby tradition in the world and how other teams have decided to react to it.

The Haka is seen as a challenge laid open to the opponents and there have been some famous acceptances of this challenge over the years:


Wales - Wales stared down the Haka for well over a minute till the ABs finally backed down.

England - England fans sang the National Anthem whilst the Haka was being performed. Disrespectful in my opinion.

Ireland - Willie Anderson brings his team up to the Haka. This has since been outlawed with fines for encroaching within 10 metres.

Scotland - Chris Hoy brings on the match ball. Err......very confrontational!

There are others of course like England in 97 and France in 2007, as well as the ABs refusal to come out on the pitch to do the Haka in Wales

So the question is - how would you like your team to face the challenge and what have been your favourites?

leinsterbaby wrote:Urine off? That's not what I typed.

leinsterbaby - meet the swear filter

oh dear five knuckle shuffle urine Boobie Love sacks

Now let's see what it prints....

Yes but I prefer using onomatopoeic words when pissible.

Yes but I prefer using onomatopoeic words when pissible.

...sounds knobbly and painful to me...

As a kid I used to love the haka, thought it was awsome. Now it just bores me. They've come along with different types of haka, each one longer than the next, all I want is for the game to kick off.

The crowd an NZ rugby want the haka performed, that's fine by me. But the opposition should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether thats walk up to the them and get in their faces or go through some drills. All this 'disrespectfull' talk is BS as far as im concerned

I like the Haka but how the AB's react when someone does something in response is always hilarious.

If you don't want to offend them by responding, just line up as you would for the kick off and let them do whatever they want to do on the half way line.

Although it would be funny if both anthems were done, the AB's did the Haka and then it was announced the home team anthem would be sung again. Nonu may drop a bollock

Most of the time the All Blacks don't react to it.

A few years ago when Gethin Jenkins was doing his Pilbury Doughboy impression, Nonu said it annoyed him and fired him up. Don't say anywhere that they shouldn't have done it, just how it made him feel. Generally its the media who pick it up and who cares what they think?

First Haka of the year in less than 3 hours..

This is how I like the response to a haka.

Show respect, face it, walk away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15hgl4qfvcA

No one is denying the respect, just for NZ to respect when it is performed in other countries.

I like the Haka, but think I am becoming a little too used to it.

When growing up, you only really saw the NZ team once a year (if you were lucky) and it was an exciting event. With all the internationals we have, with them playing every other week, it has lost some of its exotic charm - nothing to do with the culture, just see it so often it has become common place.

Regarding how to react to it, I feel it a little dis-respectful that the NZer try to tell us how we can react to their challenge. They set a challenge, and then the rules for how the opposition are allowed to react, just in case it upsets them - smacks of having your cake and eating it

I LOVED the welsh response, and thought it showed they were not going to be bullied by the haka - was great TV and a perfect way to respond.

Keep the Haka, but let the opposition react as they feel they want to. The true challenge is on the pitch during the game - which NZ are still the masters

But for a bit of a laugh here are my top responses by country (for fun and not meant to be disrespectful)

Scotland - Braveheart shout of 'freedom' then a quick eight some reel and lift of the kilt

Ireland - River dance with a pint of Guinness

Wales - wave big inflatable leeks at them, then bring on a paper machie 'valleys' and sing

England - Take a table and chair out, and have a cup of tea and scones, followed by some Morris dancing

Wasn't there one incident when the opposing team just formed a circle and their captain gave the team talk while NZ were doing the Haka? I can't remember who it was........or when.

Keep the Haka, but let the opposition react as they feel they want to.

There are protocols all over the place in rugby, for example how to behave during the opposition's national anthem. If Romania (for example) decided they'd like to react to GTSQ by (for example) pelting the English players with Custard doughnuts there'd be a certain amount of outrage I expect.

Fiji, Samoa, Tonga all have an additional pre-game ritual and it is an accepted part of rugby culture. I really don't see why this "how to react" debacle whines on perpetually. Just accept that it happens, and get on with the game afterwards.

I have suggested a lot of times though that perhaps NZ should just perform the Haka rather than going through the tired and dull national anthem (sorry Madge: national hymn) first.

Nice thread better managed and a lotmore civilised than on the old site...
if i may put in my 2p, as someone who has faced the Haka performed in anger whin i played against the NZRAF RL team in 2000 it has the be the most amazing memory of rugby i have propper hair on back on neck stuff.

All we did was what every team should do, lined up on the 10m line sholder to sholder as close as possible opposite our player stare a them soaking it in, then the skipper about 15 seconds after it finished just nodded and said "lets smash em".

Game started we won then all got drunk after,as it should be

I couldnt care less if it is part of there tradtion if i were manager my team wouldnt stand there like a bunch of Muppet looking at them

I have a tradtion of pissing before my footie matches but i dont expect the other team to stand there staring at me

If you saw the Fijians the other day, they were standing there laughing and enjoying the spectacle. And that was after they challenged the ABs with their own war dance. Can't be a better way to handle it than do your own war dance and laugh the whole thing off.

C'mon You Irish wrote:I couldnt care less if it is part of there tradtion if i were manager my team wouldnt stand there like a bunch of Muppet looking at them

I have a tradtion of pissing before my footie matches but i dont expect the other team to stand there staring at me

To be honest, I'd ask you not to make comments like this because you're going to be giving Irish rugby fans a bad name.

Teams have responded to the Haka in various ways, best is to just take it in, psyche yourself up and give it back to them on the field.

Notch is right, this sort of article is the preserve of us English.

Step away from the Haka and put down the keyboard, nobody needs to get hurt son.

It has become almost an offence, not to stand there and take it in, disrespectfull i believe the Abs always use.

The Abs are offering the opposing team a challange, How you accept that challange is, or should be up to you.

Campasee use to go and kick a ball around for a few minutes and the Abs said that, that was being disrespectfull.

Isn't there an IRB directive now on how the opposing team must stand on their own 10 yard line and watch the All Blacks doing their dance? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

In the past,Samoa and Fiji did there own version of the Haka,Boks used to do a Zulu war dance.
The Haka was abandoned on the 1972-3 Europe Tour but was bought back into usage by Public request of host Nations NOT NZ.
The variations now no longer finish with a leap in the air,no doubt they are to muscle bound to manage it,

Turkster wrote:Isn't there an IRB directive now on how the opposing team must stand on their own 10 yard line and watch the All Blacks doing their dance? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

No, I believe the ruling is that they musn't pass the 10 metre line. Which to me is a load of bollox. It's been done countless times has this, but it seems that any response is "disrespectful". I believe the traditional response was something along the lines of, "Crouch, present arms, fire"

emack2 wrote:In the past,Samoa and Fiji did there own version of the Haka,Boks used to do a Zulu war dance.
The Haka was abandoned on the 1972-3 Europe Tour but was bought back into usage by Public request of host Nations NOT NZ.
The variations now no longer finish with a leap in the air,no doubt they are to muscle bound to manage it,

Anyone else remember Byron Kellelher pulling his hamstring doing the Haka and having to pull out of the match? It's between that and Jerry Collins taking a urine on the side of the pitch for most ridiculous thing at an AB test.

I Remember Kelleher twanging - but the JC incident passed me by.

Its a joke sometimes its pissing down with rain and the other team just has to stand there

And why would i give Irish fans a bad name for starting this article and havent said anything rude all i said is it is a joke teams have to watch NZ do thier Haka

Interesting thread. Some thoughts:

1: The haka was designed to intimidate the opposition rugby team and give the AB's an avantage. From my recollection it ws initiated as a marketing tool to help sell tickets to games in the UK on the first tour. No one expected the AB's to be competative. The Wallabies and Boks also performed war dances. For most of it's history it was only done on overseas tours at the behest of the countries being toured. It wasn't done at home.

2: Buck Shelford redesigned it to make more initmidating to overseas teams. Correct to a point. Buck was the AB captain and grew up in Rotorua. He's on record as saying, if the AB's were going to perform Kamete then they should do it properly. Essentially, that's all he did. Post 86 teams know the words, the actions, have practiced it and perform it correctly.

3: What is the correct response. Arguably anything. Although, I'd put a case for the stadium singng the national anthem. If I remember correctly National anthems came into sport as a respone to the haka in the originals tour.

4: Home teams should be allowed to determine when it happens. I agree and my understanding is that the NZRFU agrees too. However, they don't have to prform the haka. They are there to play rugby, if they feel they are being used they can choose not to perform it (eg. against Wales). It seems they are happy to do it for themselves in the changing shed.

5: If people object I'm sure they'll stop performing it. Will rugby be better for it? Personally I don't think so.

blackcanelion wrote:

4: Home teams should be allowed to determine when it happens. I agree and my understanding is that the NZRFU agrees too. However, they don't have to prform the haka. They are there to play rugby, if they feel they are being used they can choose not to perform it (eg. against Wales). It seems they are happy to do it for themselves in the changing shed.

strange, the way it was portrayed everywhere else in the world was that the All-Blacks refused to perform it because they couldn't get their own way and perform it right before kick-off, as they insist on doing.

Turkster wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:

4: Home teams should be allowed to determine when it happens. I agree and my understanding is that the NZRFU agrees too. However, they don't have to prform the haka. They are there to play rugby, if they feel they are being used they can choose not to perform it (eg. against Wales). It seems they are happy to do it for themselves in the changing shed.

strange, the way it was portrayed everywhere else in the world was that the All-Blacks refused to perform it because they couldn't get their own way and perform it right before kick-off, as they insist on doing.

Sorry, badly worded. What I mean is. You can choose to change the schedule, and we can choose not to perform. I think their objection had little or nothing to do with timing just before kickoff and any percieved advantage. The AB's are happy to continue the tradition, but have drawn a line in the sand interms of pre match theatrics. My take is they'd rather not perform it than get dragged into an extended pre match entertainment package.

Hopefully thats a bit clearer.

I'm not sure how it would be "an extended pre match entertainment package." Current order is anthems, Haka. The suggested Welsh order was NZ anthem, Haka, Wales anthem., exactly the same amount of time.

I would go and continue my warm up why would i stand there like a muppet watching them jump up and down sticking there tounge out at me

It's an ongoing farce that keeps on arising almost weekly.

As ever I say, the AB's have the right to do the haka when they want inside the borders of NZ. Outside NZ they are guests / visitors to the host countries and will do as they are told or face the consequence i.e. do it in the changing room.

The amont of drama involved in this argument is quite laughable. Most people from other nations would be unaware of the huge Kapa Haka competitions that take place in NZ every year. Please google KAPA HAKA for a good insight. It would also be worthy of note that the anount of Pakeha who attend these amazing festivals is minimal and I really mean MINIMAL.

Its a selective defense of a haka that has no Maori ownership and Addidas who have ownership of the AB's.

Wait until they've finished, then have your captain walk up to McCaw and say:
"Sorry, what was that bit in the middle? I was thinking about something else just then".

welshjohn369 wrote:
Its a selective defense of a haka that has no Maori ownership and Addidas who have ownership of the AB's.

What a load of nonsense. What on earth are you talking about?
Addidas [sic] own the All Blacks? and Maori don't own the rights to Ka Mate! ?

You're wrong on both points. Please stop talking nonsense.

Make them do it in the changing rooms.

welshjohn369 wrote:
As ever I say, the AB's have the right to do the haka when they want inside the borders of NZ. Outside NZ they are guests / visitors to the host countries and will do as they are told or face the consequence i.e. do it in the changing room.

I don't understand your point. Yes they are guests, but they don't have to do the haka. They are happy not to do it before matches. They are happy to do it for themselves in the changing shed, a la Cardiff. The fact that the AB's perform the haka before matches was and has largely been instigated by host countries.

I'm not sure what your point is about kapa haka. Do you understand what kapa haka is and howits fits in within NZ culture? I'm not sure what direct relevance to Kamate and the AB's is.

blackcanelion wrote:

I don't understand your point. Yes they are guests, but they don't have to do the haka. They are happy not to do it before matches. They are happy to do it for themselves in the changing shed, a la Cardiff.

If they did it for themselves, why did they allow TV cameras into the changing room and allow it to be shown on the TV screens ?

Presumably the media wanted to capture it, asked, and were granted permission? I doubt they went out and begged Sky to cover it.

nottins wrote:If they did it for themselves, why did they allow TV cameras into the changing room and allow it to be shown on the TV screens ?

Maybe because the overwhelming majority of genuine rugby fans from all nations actually want to watch it?

TheGreyGhost wrote:Presumably the media wanted to capture it, asked, and were granted permission? I doubt they went out and begged Sky to cover it.

It wasn't broadcast on TV, only on the big screens. The NZRU only informed the WRU on the morning of the game that they weren't going to perform it on the pitch, having been informed 6 weeks earlier what the order of events was going to be.

Funny. Because I watched this one on TV, and saw the coverage. Either way I don't see your point.

Other than it involves the Haka and makes you upset?

TheGreyGhost wrote:Funny. Because I watched this one on TV, and saw the coverage. Either way I don't see your point.

Other than it involves the Haka and makes you upset?

You may have seen it on TV, but it was from a camera pointed at the big screen.

I'm pointing out the facts of what happened leading up to the event and the event itself. How does that make me upset ? I've seen the Haka plenty of times and not bothered either way if I see it again or not. I've even defended the 7's side performing it the the ladies NZ 7's side during the final of the 2009 IRB 7's RWC to some people who said it was "disrespectful". So do me a favour and don't think you presume to know whether I'm upset or not.

blackcanelion wrote:

welshjohn369 wrote:
As ever I say, the AB's have the right to do the haka when they want inside the borders of NZ. Outside NZ they are guests / visitors to the host countries and will do as they are told or face the consequence i.e. do it in the changing room.

I don't understand your point. Yes they are guests, but they don't have to do the haka. They are happy not to do it before matches. They are happy to do it for themselves in the changing shed, a la Cardiff. The fact that the AB's perform the haka before matches was and has largely been instigated by host countries.

I'm not sure what your point is about kapa haka. Do you understand what kapa haka is and howits fits in within NZ culture? I'm not sure what direct relevance to Kamate and the AB's is.

Kapa Haka does not fit in with NZ culture it fits in with Maori culture, and I dare say I have attended many more than you have over the past 15 years, so your point is?

As for doing the haka locked away in the sheds how does that become a challenge to the opponents??? Please don't go down the cultural road either because that won't work. Why did the haa themselves..............or was it because the cameras were there..I think so:)

As for the driect relevance of Ka Mate and the AB's, are you for real?

Addidas would have wanted TV's in the changing room so that their label could be seen, after all it takes up half the shirt

Owned by Germans made in China!!

surely Adidas cant tell the broadcasters what to film, where to put their cameras,or what not to film?
Or
Do Adidas take their own film crew to International rugby games involving the ABs If so wouldnt the official broadcaster have something to say about someone else filming in one of the teams changing sheds?

aucklandlaurie wrote: surely Adidas cant tell the broadcasters what to film, where to put their cameras,or what not to film?
Or
Do Adidas take their own film crew to International rugby games involving the ABs If so wouldnt the official broadcaster have something to say about someone else filming in one of the teams changing sheds?

I am sure you are right and I was a trife silly with the comments:) I still say AB's should wear Canterbury shirts but I guess it proves that money does talk and Addidas are not stupid.

If you have to "handle" the Haka you're beaten before you begin. The teams who do best against New Zealand (Australia and South Africa) simply stand there, let them do the Haka and get on with the game.

red_stag wrote:If you have to "handle" the Haka you're beaten before you begin. The teams who do best against New Zealand (Australia and South Africa) simply stand there, let them do the Haka and get on with the game.

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