New Zealand vs England 2nd Test 13th July Eden Park

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ALL BLACKS: Stephen Perofeta, Sevu Reece, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Mark Tele'a, Damian McKenzie, Finlay Christie, Ardie Savea, Dalton Papali'i, Samipeni Finau, Patrick Tuipulotu, Scott Barrett (c), Tyrel Lomax, Codie Taylor, Ethan de Groot. Reserves: Asafo Aumua, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Fletcher Newell, Tupou Vaa'i, Luke Jacobson, Cortez Ratima, Anton Lienert-Brown, Beauden Barrett.


ENGLAND: Furbank; Feyi-Waboso, Slade, Lawrence, Freeman; Smith, Mitchell; Baxter, George (capt), Cole, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl. Replacements: Dan, Rodd, Stuart, Coles, Curry, B Spencer, F Smith, Sleightholme.



Ben Youngs and George Ford discuss what England might need to do

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Cy3lvUG8nm2RjFy8B8GV3?si=2bbd006721554b56

Both players think last week's gameplan worked but England weren't ultimately accurate enough. While there'll be a few tweaks, Ford thinks it'll come down to England's self-belief that improving execution by 10% can get a win

Telea often filled-in for D-Mac during England lineouts, to let the fly-half field our kicks. Youngs would like to see Lawrence with the ball in hand, heading for Telea.

Geordie wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think Baxter deserves a lot of credit.  It's not many players who can break their international cherry against the ABs and do well.  Here's hoping some other young'uns come through.  Though hope ain't a plan.
.  

I honestly think in a year or two Loosehead will be a great strength for England....Baxter blooded now, Iyogun had a trip to NZ, Brantingham will develop even better at Saracens and Haffar looks a hell of a prospect. Marler might be around for another year and if not Genge will be the old head at what 28/29?

Tight head is the problem ...Dan is on his final lap with England,  Stuart just doesn't inspire and there's very little in the Prem to get excited about. I'm a big fan of Trev Davison but he would be another average international stop gap.  Hayes isn't inspiring and the ones with hope are kids.

Not sure how the experiment is going, but Haffar is supposed to be cross training on the other side of the scrum.

Is that right Doc....very interesting. I wonder whats brought that about..

Ben Youngs and Anthony Watson disagree over England kicking the ball away in attack during that last quarter. Watson thinks the tactic makes sense but the kicks were often poor. By contrast, Youngs reckons if you don't show a willingness to keep the ball in hand, the referee often starts unconsciously giving the defence a bit more leeway. He spotted a moment where Savea was slow to roll away. Youngs said the referee was penalizing similar play by England, because NZ showed they wanted to put phases together. Savea got away with it.

The Ireland match ended up hinging on a moment when Frawley kicked the ball away. Caelan Doris said afterwards he thought at the time it was the wrong move. It could easily have gone into touch and been a Springbok thrown-in, which probably would have let them see the game out. However, the South African player didn't want to risk having an Irish attacker burgle the ball, and took it into touch himself, which gave the throw to the Irish.

England had a couple of moments when kicks could have put the All Blacks under similar pressure but ended up giving them easy exits, or even transferring pressure straight back onto ourselves.

Geordie wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think Baxter deserves a lot of credit.  It's not many players who can break their international cherry against the ABs and do well.  Here's hoping some other young'uns come through.  Though hope ain't a plan.
.  

I honestly think in a year or two Loosehead will be a great strength for England....Baxter blooded now, Iyogun had a trip to NZ, Brantingham will develop even better at Saracens and Haffar looks a hell of a prospect. Marler might be around for another year and if not Genge will be the old head at what 28/29?

Tight head is the problem ...Dan is on his final lap with England,  Stuart just doesn't inspire and there's very little in the Prem to get excited about. I'm a big fan of Trev Davison but he would be another average international stop gap.  Hayes isn't inspiring and the ones with hope are kids.

An average international TH would do us at the moment, until someone younger comes through anyway. You can't have high end everywhere and if he can hold his side stable he is ding his job. Apart from Cole, all our TH are weak in the scrummage.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Geordie wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think Baxter deserves a lot of credit.  It's not many players who can break their international cherry against the ABs and do well.  Here's hoping some other young'uns come through.  Though hope ain't a plan.
.  

I honestly think in a year or two Loosehead will be a great strength for England....Baxter blooded now, Iyogun had a trip to NZ, Brantingham will develop even better at Saracens and Haffar looks a hell of a prospect. Marler might be around for another year and if not Genge will be the old head at what 28/29?

Tight head is the problem ...Dan is on his final lap with England,  Stuart just doesn't inspire and there's very little in the Prem to get excited about. I'm a big fan of Trev Davison but he would be another average international stop gap.  Hayes isn't inspiring and the ones with hope are kids.

An average international TH would do us at the moment, until someone younger comes through anyway. You can't have high end everywhere and if he can hold his side stable he is ding his job. Apart from Cole, all our TH are weak in the scrummage.

I thought Stuart had improved in that area was looking fairly stable under a lot of pressure. He adds a lot in the loose so as long as we can pair him with a good scrummaging loosehead we should be ok.

I'm not advocating binning Cole and Stuart and bringing in U20s into starting XV. What I'd like to see is a gradual introduction especially as there are positions in which England senior team do need back up. Let's not forget CCS was in U20s a year or so ago and he looks like real deal.
Anyway, let's see what happens come AIs.

Ethan Roots is a guest on Aotearoa Rugby this week.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
I thought Stuart had improved in that area was looking fairly stable under a lot of pressure. He adds a lot in the loose so as long as we can pair him with a good scrummaging loosehead we should be ok.

Also need to think about the power behind the front row. A good prop can be undermined by a weak scrum, and an OK one can look much better with the right support. It's a rare beast that can function effectively without a strong pack around them.

I always felt one of the huge advantages that Kruis and Launchbury brought was the power they added to the scrum. That said, Itoje and Martin also punch above their weight in that respect, if lacking a little bit on the older pair. I wonder if Earl's relative lack of experience at the base is a factor? He's made a better 8 than I expected but he's still pretty light compared to most of his international peers.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
I thought Stuart had improved in that area was looking fairly stable under a lot of pressure. He adds a lot in the loose so as long as we can pair him with a good scrummaging loosehead we should be ok.

Also need to think about the power behind the front row. A good prop can be undermined by a weak scrum, and an OK one can look much better with the right support. It's a rare beast that can function effectively without a strong pack around them.

I always felt one of the huge advantages that Kruis and Launchbury brought was the power they added to the scrum. That said, Itoje and Martin also punch above their weight in that respect, if lacking a little bit on the older pair. I wonder if Earl's relative lack of experience at the base is a factor? He's made a better 8 than I expected but he's still pretty light compared to most of his international peers.

Agree, a swap with CCS might be a good idea, but it breaks down if any of the lock hybrids are chosen.

Back in the day................................being lock sized, I was sometimes chosen at 7 in lieu of my normal 8 or sometimes 6, not for my ability there but to shore up a weaker prop, you need a lot of understanding there, in deciding to push straightish or more inwards to stop him opening up, or push a bit up or downwards again depending on what is happening to him. A bit of extra power can help a lot.

Ben Youngs and George Ford look back on Saturday's match, and England in general.

Neither thinks Freddie Steward will move to the centre.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7n7hx6INj6I5wsopoCCJHC?si=12405d35c3a94007