England's winter of cricket 2024/25

First topic message reminder :

The squad for the tour of Pakistan has just been announced...Stokes and Crawley are back, with Dan Lawrence dropped. There are also recalls for Rehan Ahmed and Jack Leach, with Brydon Carse getting a tour also.

Full squad (likely XI then others);

Zak Crawley
Ben Duckett
Ollie Pope
Joe Root
Harry Brook
Ben Stokes
Jamie Smith (wk)
Gus Atkinson
Olly Stone
Jack Leach
Shoaib Bashir

Reserves:
Jordan Cox
Brydon Carse
Rehan Ahmed
Chris Woakes
Josh Hull
Matthew Potts

Will MacPherson noting they see Tom Hartley as more suited for the true turning wickets of SL/India/Bangladesh, hence his omission. Tests likely to be played at Rawalpindi, Multan, Rawalpindi. (Two Pindi tests...fun).

Extra seamers suggest Stokes might not be fit to bowl?

Tough chance but England have been pretty poor at holding them in this series

Inspite of slowness of pitch you can hit with power and score off spinners although a bit chancy.
Seamers with reverse are looking impossible to get off the square

GSC wrote:Tough chance but England have been pretty poor at holding them in this series

Good targetting to aim at Duckett - would have been well within the range of pretty much anyone else in the team.

And England have missed a very thin edge by Rizwan...

Carse unfortunate not to get another wicket in that spell.

Potts following up beautifully, though, and he successfully got a nick behind....but no one really appealed and no review taken. More frustration.

200/4. 21 overs left tonight.

England have stuck to their task doggedly - and earned the rewards with those two wickets either side of tea. If Duckett had held that tough chance they'd be well on top....Still a lot of work to do ; but after a very good spell from Carse , Potts has started impressively now. And would have had the wicket if England had taken a review ! Oh dear....Kamran might be getting a bit nervous as his maiden hundred nears...

It was surprising no one from Eng really appealed for what snicko showed as a catch.

It could be bat hitting pad.
Pak need to go over the top of the close inner ring when seamers.are bowling

Really well deserved hundred on debut for Kamran Ghulam

Superb from Ghulam. The most difficult man to replace, in terms of name and reputation, for a Pakistani, but he's answered any queries with a century that has held this innings together, and kept them on course for 400.

Frustration for England. They were on top, but just couldn't squeeze that fifth wicket out, now Pakistan are starting to score. Bashir is a huge drop off in quality again.

Terrible review there from England. Still need at least one more tonight, or it's Pakistan's day.

With the hundred achieved , and Rizwan settled, the pressure seems to be off a bit - especially with Root and Bashir sharing the bowling in the lead up to the new ball. What happens when it arrives will probably decide honours for the day ...but wait : is that a leg side strangle ? Nice take by Smith....but no , another " Pope Class" review by England

10 overs with the new ball then, or 44 minutes.

235/4. Very important mini-session coming up here. Carse with it.

235/4 and no delay in taking the new ball. Carse has had a decent rest so he will be able to have a red hot go...important 10 overs to come...

Potts starting well

Does rather suggest this will be a minefield by the end of the game. England will need to bat well in their first innings batting last

Game has played out more like the games England played vs Pakistan in the UAE than the matches in Pakistan over the past few years. Very slow pitch, seamers have been really hard to score off so you have to try and get your runs vs the spinners.

All three of England’s seamers have been impressive - Carse has bowled with a lot more control than I worried he had and has got it reversing lovely. Been impressed with Potts too, really like him as a bowler - always at the batter with the angle he creates.

Bashir is the big concern, as he will have work to do second innings. And runs will be at a premium as that bounce gets slower and lower.

Wow, what has he done there? 35 balls away from stumps, an ill judged dance down the wicket.

Door back open for England. Deserved too.

Aha ! Just as the first part of the day...only 2 overs for Carse , on comes the spinners...Bashir this time - and Kamran Ghulam's excellent innings comes to an end , advancing, missing and bowled to Bashir 's delight ...big wicket.

Five overs left. Might even get them in ... Leach on , and England would love one more wicket...

Even day. Key first session tomorrow to see who gets ahead

Think Pakistan are ahead in this game at the end of the day, England generally bowled pretty well and Potts in particular unlucky to only have one wicket to his name.

Suspect England will need to bat big first up to have a shot - pitch is moving a lot for seamers, so maybe Pakistan have the balance of their bowling slightly awry...

259/5 at stumps. Give a narrow edge to England for the day, because of the run rate being below 3 and Pakistan not really getting away, though it was frustrating as England could have easily taken six or seven today. And frustrating to lose an even more important toss than the first test!

I was impressed with what Potts and Carse generated throughout the day, and it looks a wrong call from Pakistan to have only played one seamer. Leach started well, excellent first spell, but faded. Bashir mostly non threatening, though wasn't expensive. The day obviously belonged to Ghulam for his ton, and he was well supported by the under-fire Ayub.

It's still pretty decent for batting. Turn is quite slow and that's almost Pakistan's only weapon. Fair few balls grubbering, the prevalence of which should only increase, but not many balls with unexpected lift, so it's manageable for the batters as the general bounce is quite low. Will be interesting to see if England's bats can still go at a good pace when the time comes.

For now, England's aim should be to keep Pakistan below 350 with a good start tomorrow, 380 at worst. Then it's more essential for England to get a first innings lead than it was in the first test, as this six day old wicket will likely be very tricky to bat on by day nine.

Good test in store.

Fairly even day : Pakistan probably have their noses in front by virtue of runs on the board and bowling last - unless England get 800 again

But a good hard fought day of test Cricket. Excellent debut by Ghulam , some fine bowling from the England seamers perhaps unfortunate not to have been better rewarded ? After Leach had done the early damage. Pitch is slow and you'd think it will get lower and presumably spin more as we go on ; but after the previous game I will wait and see how it develops...

Shows that it must be quite tight, as I have it as marginally England's day, mainly because they've really kept a lid on the run rate. If they'd reviewed the nick from Rizwan they would definitely be ahead of the game. Three pretty cheap wickets, 2 decent contributions and a good century. 259-5 is the sort of score that could turn in to 300 all out or 400+ all out, so obviously the start of tomorrow is important

Doesn't seem that the wicket is doing all that much yet - a few keeping low, but mostly things happening quite slowly. The assumption is it must get worse, so definitely needs England to clean up this innings tomorrow morning and then make a big score first knock.

It was hard attritional cricket on a slow pitch, slow outfield and Pak has runs on the board..
They would hope to get to 400 and unless there is a collapse they should because they have allrounder Jamal and then their bowlers are capable of holding bat to get 10 to 15 runs.

Eng were smart & professional like always and did not allow Pak to run away keeping a window open to collapse them for 330 odd.

What's a good score here?
Hard to say but I would  put first inning 350-330 as par & second inning 270-300 as par

So Pak is ahead in the game with only weakness being they lack a 2nd seamer.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Think Pakistan are ahead in this game at the end of the day, England generally bowled pretty well and Potts in particular unlucky to only have one wicket to his name.

Suspect England will need to bat big first up to have a shot - pitch is moving a lot for seamers, so maybe Pakistan have the balance of their bowling slightly awry...

I find it hard to call who's ahead here as I'm really unsure on this part. It's spinning but the turn is largely slower turn. A bit like Indian pitches in the Noughties. If the bounce gets even slower, then will the turn just do the same? It may not be easy to score quickly against but it might not be that threatening either.

Whereas, if the bounce gets really uneven, then it might become really hard to play the spinners as they could bowl wicket to wicket, into the pitch a bit more and wait for one to grubber. Which in turn might make the batters far more hesitant in their foot work if they aren't certain what the bounce is doing.

Instinctively, I feel like Pakistan marginally had the better of D1s play, but I think I'd marginally prefer England's position going into the rest of the Test due to the balance of their attack. Those cracks in the pitch look like they'll be tasty for seamers as the match goes on. Then again, Pakistan are batting first on a pitch that is already on day 6.

It's very tight to call.

I see you guys are discussing which side is ahead. I can’t answer that (even if anyone can at this stage) as I’m currently away and been unable to watch.

I would say though that at the start of play only one side would have accepted Pakistan being 259/5 at the close and that’s Pakistan. Admittedly, that isn’t quite the same as saying which side is ahead as it makes allowance for the dreadful place Pakistan were coming from. However, it perhaps provides a pointer. Certainly, Pakistan will be content tonight and not too many were expecting that.

Carse reminiscent of Morne Morkel

That DRS looked closer in real time , was surprising to see it was totally missing . Eng lost 2 reviews now.
Pitch rolled in and looking settled....good 45 min or so when Pak shud play strokes and get some.runs

Just 8 balls into the day and England have already managed to burn another review...Rizwan isn't that tall but that always looked to be going too high. They really aren't doing well on reviews lately.

Got him now though ! Great bowling from Carse and an equally excellent catch by Smith...had to go a long way for that as slips were quite wide. Just what England wanted. 264/6 and the settled batsman has gone. Salman now joined by Jamal in basically the main remaining proper partnership...

That one bounced to get the edge of Rizwan.
Pitch has shown surprisingly some bounce this morning, wonder if it's off the cracks

Was a fine spell from Carse but he probably bowled one over too many there...tough conditions for fast bowling ; and a 15 run over a boost for Pakistan. 294/6 and Potts back now at that end. Salman looking a bit more comfortable.

They really need to place a third man !

Eng has leaked some.30 easy runs behind the.cordon and 10 in front of square
Costly runs on a difficult to score pitch

Or...just get him Caught Behind Similar to the Carse wicket, extra bounce for Potts and a much easier catch for Smith. 302/7 . Into the tail...

alfie wrote:Or...just get him Caught Behind       Similar to the Carse wicket,  extra bounce for Potts and a much easier catch for Smith. 302/7 . Into the tail...

I wonder (again) where this extra bounce coming from  today...cracks ?
Those are not tail....they have 20ish average in FC and also in tests Sajid and Noman.
They can hold an end and support Jamal

Not sure , KP_fan...yes they've leaked some runs ; but on the other hand they are prising out set batsmen without a lot of help from the pitch. OK , both wickets today owe something to extra bounce which may be either a pitch feature or bowler effort or both ? But it seems to be in line with the Stokes philosophy of attack first...which has worked fairly well in Pakistan four times now... What is a good score on this , do you think ?

alfie wrote:Not sure , KP_fan...yes they've leaked some runs ; but on the other hand they are prising out set batsmen without a lot of help from the pitch. OK , both wickets today owe something to extra bounce which may be either a pitch feature or bowler effort or both ? But it seems to be in line with the Stokes philosophy of attack first...which has worked fairly well in Pakistan four times now... What is a good score on this , do you think ?

330 to 350 is good for first inning in my view
And 275-300 for second inning.
Of interest now how far can Jamal and bowlers pull this inning
How will Eng bat? Properly or Bazballing

Still calling it the tail - though I concede they aren't total rabbits. As the8th wicket falls to Leach I reckon it is mostly down to Jamal now. They'd love another forty or fifty...can they get it ?

Pretty sure England will go hard - hopefully not too silly though ! Duckett knows no other way and Crawley is probably best when "positive ". Bit more nuance with Pope and Root - or should be. Still need 2 wickets first and Jamal is adding useful runs...

Seamers have looked the danger men this morning , but they need rest so Bashir is into the action now. England hoping he doesn't let the control slip too much. Still half hour to lunch. Fairly balanced at 328/8

Not really much spin on offer for Leach and Bashir this morning - suspect it’s a good pitch for spin with the new ball, but once the ball wears it’s just low and slow spin.
Any inconsistent bounce we’ve seen has come from the seamers, and in particular Potts and Carse are true hit the wicket bustlers.

One from Leach there spat and turned off the pitch - first one today

Hmm. Jamal moving awkwardly after getting up from that sweep. Pakistan's only seamer so they don't want him crocked. Has batted well though as they reach 340/8. Norman hanging in well in support.

Hi Olly...yes that was the first real "cobra" ball. Spin has mostly been very slow. Not bad for batting really ...at least for now.

Handy partnership , this. Pakistan will be delighted if they can nudge this up close to 400. Do wonder if Stokes should have had a bowl this morning instead of going to spin both ends ..

Jamal batting nicely but clearly struggling after that sweep - might Pakistan not have any seam available!

Yeah , Carse back up for an over before lunch ..good idea I think. They look too comfortable against the spinners.

alfie wrote: both wickets today owe something to extra bounce which may be either a pitch feature or bowler effort or both ?

The ssame bowlers were dying 2nd bounce to the WK yesterday.
I think it's cracks which should be more worrying for Eng in the bigger picture.

Noman Ali with a test high of 97 and a FC hundred + 14 fifties has batted competently and with intent.
Pak have runs on the board.

Pak spinners will have to bowl in-line with stumps and hope some keep low and some jump and some turn a bit and strike Eng on the pads.
Getting out is not easy if one plays proper cricket ....but once you start sweeping, hacking , reverse sweeping , you could miss one quickly

Reckln Pakistan just about edged that session in the end (99/3 in 27 overs quite decent) . But Carse striking immediately on resumption has swung it back a bit...360/9 in a - so far - very well matched contest. Of course it all depends on " both sides batting on it "...

The cracks may play a part , indeed. But it seems Pakistan might have very limited pace options. Will the spinners be regularly dangerous (yet) on a very slow surface ?