England's winter of cricket 2024/25

First topic message reminder :

The squad for the tour of Pakistan has just been announced...Stokes and Crawley are back, with Dan Lawrence dropped. There are also recalls for Rehan Ahmed and Jack Leach, with Brydon Carse getting a tour also.

Full squad (likely XI then others);

Zak Crawley
Ben Duckett
Ollie Pope
Joe Root
Harry Brook
Ben Stokes
Jamie Smith (wk)
Gus Atkinson
Olly Stone
Jack Leach
Shoaib Bashir

Reserves:
Jordan Cox
Brydon Carse
Rehan Ahmed
Chris Woakes
Josh Hull
Matthew Potts

Will MacPherson noting they see Tom Hartley as more suited for the true turning wickets of SL/India/Bangladesh, hence his omission. Tests likely to be played at Rawalpindi, Multan, Rawalpindi. (Two Pindi tests...fun).

Extra seamers suggest Stokes might not be fit to bowl?

guildfordbat wrote:

GSC wrote:If Stokes can take on a decent workload it's ok I feel. Not likely to use the seamers for long spells rather than short bursts while the spinners handle the workload.

I'm not saying the selection is necessarily wrong but settling on it so early is.

It seems the decision was mainly based more on the fact that the surrounding turf is so lush that reverse is thought unlikely to be a major factor , rather than a pure judgement on the actual pitch. I don't suppose that was very likely to change before the match. Given Pakistan is sticking resolutely to a virtually all spin attack the choices probably make sense.

Whether England's trio are able to do the job is something we will find out as we go.

I am happy enough to see Atkinson back in the main seamer role. Carse was excellent last week but he has bowled a lot of overs ; and a refreshed Atkinson is probably more likely than Carse or Potts to do damage with the new ball. If there is any reverse on offer Stokes is not a bad option to exploit it. But his best contribution might be to win a toss for once

Toss won so that's a start. Unsurprisingly Stokes has elected to bat Soon will see what this much talked about pitch offers...

Blimey ! Sajid opens the bowling : and the first ball turns sharply , stays low , beats bat and keeper ... Interesting. Noman also with the new ball so Jamal might have a light workload here...

Duckett unusually watchful.. 11 balls without sweeping yet Sajid getting more spin than Noman but nothing too surprising yet apart from that first delivery. 8/0 after four overs...not very Bazball... Slow , low pitch seems to be the early signs.

Ball is turning a bit , as much in Multan as it's in Pune.
Pak have tied down Eng openers

Look at the pitch, it's not a rank turner.
Good toss to win..it will deteriorate slowly like the Indian pitches.
Eng should post 350+ and they have more balance thru 2 seamers to exploit reverse

Went up a gear quickly...next three overs brought twenty Crawley employing the sweep well. 32/0 now off 8 overs.

Yeah the two pitches both seem OK for batting at present. Turn , but slow turn. First innings runs important.

27 and out for Crawley...tried to drive hard at Noman and just sliced to backward point. 56/1 and they'll be looking to put maximum pressure on Pope , with his dodgy starting...

If eng and Pak both play Par cricket , Eng will win due to gradual deterioration of pitch and Pak batting last.
For Pak to win they have to pull Eng down to a below par score in inning 1 or 3
Or Bat above par really big in innings 2 as its unlikely to make up the difference in last inning

Pope gone...this looks out , pending review...he's not hit it...yeah , gone ...and the review with it out for 3 and really is becoming Sajid's Bunny. 70/2

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:
...

Certainly right now , as KC says , it makes sense to have three ,  all imperfect , but different spinners on duty for what seems likely to be a pitch which offers nothing to the pace men. Stokes is probably ready now to take on a bit of donkey work alongside the now refreshed Atkinson : the rotating and resting on this tour has generally made sense - though one wonders why they bothered to bring Stone at all given his documented interrupted availability ?

...

I fully accept you never know for sure how a pitch is going to play until you get on it. However, you normally have a better idea the closer to the start time. It seems unnecessarily premature (which is a polite way of saying nuts) to name an unusual mix of bowlers forty-eight hours in advance when the wicket is still being actively worked on. Although England's current management have regularly chosen to do that, one of their mantras is not to be afraid to do things differently and I feel that should have been the case here.

Broad had a passage in his book where he suggested this was his idea as he felt like you needed to know so you could prepare properly with confidence that you were in or out. Whilst I appreciate his sentiment, he knows better than me what is required to play Test cricket, it does seem weird that a) they have to announce it to the press so early and not keep the opposition guessing and b) on occasions like this, where it is still being worked on, you can tell 9/10 players they are in and leave a couple of slots till later on.

Oh dear...Root gone now pinned lbw playing back and done like a dinner. 80/3 with Sajid getting some sharp spin and keeping low... not going to be 500 today !

Regardless of the timing , I think we can already say that the decision to load up with spinners was correct

The Sajid/Duckett contest is intriguing...fifty up for Ben in good time , but he's had to jam down on a couple that kept low.... and now he's given a sharp c&b chance to Noman....fortunately too hot to be held But gone now , lbw to one that ran along the ground...52 of the precarious 98/4

Brook has come back to earth after that 300...out cheaply again now , sweep attempt just serving to see his leg stump demolished...this has not been good from England, tricky pitch and all. 98/5

This is not looking good, raging turner or not! Bashir will probably serve up enough rubbish for Pakistan to do better when batting

Pitch manipulation really does serve up rubbish test matches.

This pitch has started turning more in the 2nd hour than the one in Pune.
And one grubbed the surface.
Unlike kiwis Eng have not helped their cause by showing impatience and too much sweeping.
One of Smith/ stoked needs to bat thru and others score useful 20s around for Eng to get to a workable total.

While India used 5 bowlers in first hour.....pak have gone unchanged with two for 2.5 innings in a row now

Certainly Pakistan will be thinking they've done a great job with the pitch drying fans...Noman and Sajid have got the surface theyd have been praying for Question will be how well England's spinners can exploit it when its their turn Lunch after 30 overs : 110/5

Have been some poor shots to get out - patience a bit lacking ? Duckett couldn't have done much to avoid his dismissal with the ball he got ; but the others all contributed to their demise with poor footwork or very ill judged shots.

The turn hasn't really been outrageous : but the extremely low bounce from several deliveries is the issue that probably suggests the pitch is a bit unsuitable for day one of a Test Match. Will be interested to see how that develops over however many days we get...

alfie wrote:Have been some poor shots to get out - patience a bit lacking  ?  Duckett couldn't have done much to avoid his dismissal with the ball he got  ; but the others all contributed to their demise with poor footwork or very ill judged shots.

The turn hasn't really been outrageous : but the extremely low bounce from several deliveries is the issue that probably suggests the pitch is a bit unsuitable for day one of a Test Match. Will be interested to see how that develops over however many days we get...

Yes Eng should not lose heart
Pitch is degrading fast and even 250 might be good
That's why one of Stokes or Smith needs to bat till end and others bat with useful 15s and 20s
Duckett could have done with discretion
Rameez on air pointed that trying very hard to throw away his wicket

Seems the pitch lasted an hour in the end. Still everyone has to bat in it. Seems the deeper lineup and spinners may have been the right plan. Getting 250 or so might be a good score but needs a big innings or two to get there

Fine piece of bowling and a great catch does for Stokes...

150 would be great from here as the tail is looming.

Would be a good time for Atkinson to make another hundred! Joking aside, 200 would be a surprise from here. I don't think we can expect much from 8 and down on a pitch like this

Couple of impressive blows from Smith...he has actually looked the calmest of any of the batsmen so far , trusting his defensive technique, and ready to take advantage when he sees an opportunity . Really need him to bat a while here. Same two bowlers , twenty each now. Suppose even these two spinners might get a bit tired eventually ? At least England are closing in on that 150...

150 up, Atkinson just about hanging in. Sajid finally given a rest

Will take the runs, but does make you wonder if batting isn't as impossible as it was made to look, there was quite an element of poor shot choices

I don't know VTR. There's more an element for fortune in surviving some of these deliveries. Getting above 200 feels competitive, 250 pretty good

Yes some balls have shot through low , and there has been serious turn. But it is still slow : and these two have shown that defending with a straight bat and picking the ball to attack with minimum risk can pay dividends. Do think there were some pretty ill judged strokes attempted before lunch

Fifty for Smith.. a very good one in a difficult situation. He was probably disappointed with himself in getting out last week going too hard when running low on partners, and has made an excellent adjustment today. Good support Atkinson too...191/6,

Pakistan's turn to give away some free runs

Having watched over a few tests now i can safely pronounce that in my view Smith is technically the 2nd most sound batter in Eng team, after Root

Mehmood hasn't backed up the main duo

100 partnership has rather pulled England out of the proverbial

I feel there's an element of the softer ball not biting into the surface as much now. It can be an underplayed element of bowling spin on these sorts of pitches. Ashwin has become an absolute master of it. He'll slightly change his pace to get maximum purchase with the harder ball. We always think about the age of the ball with seamers but not so much with spinners. On decks that don't turn much at home, it isn't much of a variable for the spinners. On Bunsens like this it can be massive though.

Everything just looks slower now with the softer ball, the variable bounce isn't as notable. I hope England's bowlers take note of that when it's there turn to bowl.

Smith and Atkinson played really smartly to weather the period when it was ragging quicker, have chosen their moment well to put the foot down again.

Atkinson ahead of Rehan was interesting. Clearly Atkinson can bat. His hundred was very assured rather than streaky and he's been impressive again here. It says a bit about where they view Rehan's batting though.

Argh, Atkinson goes as I type. Smart from Noman. He bowled that so slowly. Showing his experience there.

And after an excellent innings of 39 , Atkinson gets out rather tamely popping one back to bowler Noman....but he's brought England right back into the game along with Smith. Just misjudged the pace then...still a fine job in his secondary role. 225/7 didn't look possible an hour or so ago...

Rats ! No century for Smith...he really deserved one. 243/8 and not expecting many more...

Yeah, I was really hoping Smith would get a ton there. That was an excellent innings again from Smith. He rode out the period where it was ripping more and once again picked his moment to put the foot down. That ability to go through the gears is really impressive.

Eng and NZ on same scores
Eng recovered and NZ went down to Washington

Really good innings from Smith, he goes up and down the gears well. Started quite circumspect then decided to put some pressure on the bowlers, then realised it was doing less so sat in with Atkinson for about 10 overs before playing his shots again. Some players go too hard constantly but he seems to be able to judge small periods of play quite well.

Will be fascinating to see how Pakistan respond to whatever England manage to total. Key may be how many wickets fall before the ball gets soft ?

Foakes would have got the extra 9

Good points , Soul . That is what I like about Smith : for a very new player at this level he seems to have an excellent knack for judging how to handle the situation...

250 on the board...looked very unlikely around lunchtime. Given likely pitch deterioration, this might actually end up a decent score ?

The extra batting has come to the rescue

Rehan didn't really enhance his reputation as an all rounder... Sajid yet again with five. 262/9 ain't that bad , maybe...though 300 would have been nice.

267 ao then. Looked dicey at one stage. Might be a decent score, about to find out

Leach takes choice of ends from Atkinson... no grubbers yet. This Pakistan opening pair don't have a great record so far...bet they'd like to make this stand an exception.

England may have picked too many seamers