England v New Zealand, 2nd November

First topic message reminder :

England have named their team for the match:

England: Furbank; Feyi-Waboso, Slade, Lawrence, Freeman; M Smith, Spencer; Genge, George (capt), Stuart; Itoje, Martin; Cunningham-South, T Curry, Earl.

Replacements: Dan, Baxter, Cole, Isiekwe, B Curry, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford.

No huge surprises, and a lot of the changes have been trailed. It'll be interesting to see if Curry is back to his best, and whether Spencer goes well with Smith. Having Ford back in the squad should help with closing out the game - but the presence of Dombrandt makes me wonder if the plan is to keep Smith on the pitch for longer by moving him to 15 so that they can work off each other.

How NZ are pressuring Freeman is a classic example of 'kettling' a winger under a high ball more than fully challenging in the air. Actually getting up in the air can be a lottery and risk knock ons or even penalties. Which can be a particularly bad risk vs reward equation if that defending winger is 6'5". Instead, they're just surrounding him with chasers and the guys getting up in the air are more just getting in Freeman's eyeline or get enough of a nudge in the air to disturb him. Giving him several chasers to worry about a bit, rather than one competing chaser in the air, where it's a simple case of 'win the ball'. It's working well so far. I rate Freeman extremely highly. They're targeting him smartly with a really specific tactic though.

Unexpectedly good scrummaging from England so far. I did not expect to see Will Stuart winning scrum penalties, and he could arguably have had more

Such a low quality game, bar a few bright moments of Kiwi attack. The amount of basic handling errors has been shocking. Not sure either team has put five or more phases together at any point.

England basically staying in it through NZ indiscipline. The penalty count is very distorted. Best point for England is their scrum has the advantage so far, something few would have predicted pre-game.

That's twice that Smith has messed up a drop goal. Nowhere near on both occasions. He needs to work on those

Turgid Borthwick fare so far. Clinging on as is the gameplan but you can already see where with frankly a pretty limited NZ player pool for them are headed with Robertson.

Poorfour wrote:Unexpectedly good scrummaging from England so far. I did not expect to see Will Stuart winning scrum penalties, and he could arguably have had more

Williams is a freak athlete but better suited to being an impact sub at current. de Groot is a far better LH and England have been aided massively by his breach of team protocols. Stuart can only scrummage against who's picked against him though. He's playing well. I'm expecting Tu'ungafasi to come on early in the second half. He's a much better technical scrummager than Williams is at this stage of his career.

But you want NZ to win 7.5

8:1 penalties is ridiculous!

Stuart is schooling the NZ massive LH but SH refs generally don't ref scrums consistently. Sittiti looks like the next Micheal Jones to me. NZ are cute at the breakdown as usual and haven't thrown a lineout down the middle yet and NZ look incredibly dangerous on attack and cynical in defence - a match winning combo

Virtually no attacking intent from England in that half. We look like what we are, a team that hasn't played together in months. Not trusting their ability to get over the line and haven't remotely looked like scoring a try. All you can say is, at least we are still in it. Hopefully they'll play better in the second half, because if they don't they'll tire and things could get ugly.

Gardner's made some strange decisions mind, he warned them after two hits off the ball and then... warned them again! I'd also say that if England had committed 8-9 penalties, the referee would be falling over themselves to give us a team warning.

The knock where they were nearly under the posts was odd too. They knock on, Freeman hacks through straight to their player and he calls advantage over!

I think that's been a really fun half of rugby to watch. Two sides trying to play at a very high tempo. NZ's backs and Sititi have been brutal on the counter.

The stronger ABs bench is certainly a worry. Tu'ungafasi will be a set-piece upgrade on Williams. Tosi is an excellent carrier. Big Pat and Finau are very mobile. Finau will add a lineout option too. Roigard shouldn't be worse than Ratima, who hasn't had a great game. ALB will be used to change how they attack and use his offloads - which has had joy already for other NZ players. DMcK will add an additional playmaker as I'd presume he'll come on for Clarke with Beaudy probably dropping back to fullback.

I'd maybe be tempted to switch Ford for Slade when the backs subs are made. Shift Freeman to 13 to get him out the firing line of their smart kick chase plan. Then use all three of Ford, Marcus and Furbank as playmakers and kicking options.

I wouldn't have gambled on the 6-2 when Isiekwe, Burry and Dombrandt are the loose forward subs. They're going to need to make a bigger impact than I'm frankly expecting of them.

mountain man wrote:But you want NZ to win 7.5

A big one too to get Borthwock out, yup. But it doesn't make what i said untrue. No real threat at all so far but you have Wigglesworth with a big say in it. We have so many dynamic attacking players and it's all wasted with this lot. Abysmal.

Bench though could be issue for England. Randall Baxter and Dan will add pace, others will slow it.

Yep the advantage calls are odd ... early on England kick through after a knock-on and look like they might make a break so he whistles and calls them back, but later when they kick through and NZ collect it it's play on? Should have had a couple more scrum pens near the end of the half too, and a YC for yet another off the ball tackle after they were warned.

This kick off is going to be important, will set the tone for the half.

NZ just look more settled and more likely to score though unfortunately.

That'll do. Waiting for Jonker to chalk it off....

Heaf wrote:NZ just look more settled and more likely to score though unfortunately.

Unsurprisingly to be fair. Beaudy has 130 caps and is world class in attack. Jordie and Reiko are a brilliant partnership going forward. Will Jordan is up there with Kolbe and Penaud as the best all round wing/fullbacks in the game. It's a brilliant team ball in hand, even if they aren't quite on the level of the all conquering ABs teams.

Get in! 7.5 on phone to Marius now.

An error was the most likely way for England to score, but still needed a decent finish.

Five point lead to build on to now. NZ have to chase the game.

mountain man wrote:Get in! 7.5 on phone to Marius now.

Great by Smith individually. But yeah another nail in our coffin longer term. Surely you're not still in the balme the ref phase tho.

Typical, was in the toilet!

They are looking rattled!

England just need a score now, any score!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Get in! 7.5 on phone to Marius now.

Great by Smith individually. But yeah another nail in our coffin longer term. Surely you're not still in the balme the ref phase tho.

.

Yes England scoring and going into lead is detrimental

Still don’t see what Robertson sees in Ratima. He’s been fast tracked into the AB’s setup and looks really raw compared with Roigard, Perenara and Christie.

Cumbrian wrote:Typical, was in the toilet!

Get back in then

Brilliant from Marcus. First the intercept under pressure, then the awareness to know he was getting chased down and finding the support in time. IFW is lightning. Huge for England to get a breakaway try. It's felt like it'd need to come through phase play for them.

They're contesting rucks harder since the break, I think. It'll be interesting to see if that's a tactic for the whole half. Or a case of the 6-2 split meaning they're telling certain forwards to empty the tank earlier after the break.

NZ's first turnover took 50 minutes! Must be a record.

mountain man wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Get in! 7.5 on phone to Marius now.

Great by Smith individually. But yeah another nail in our coffin longer term. Surely you're not still in the balme the ref phase tho.

.

Yes England scoring and going into lead is detrimental

It is lo ger term. You really don't get the man u reference? You'd still be supporting ten hag dude.

Good time for the front row to change. That was the first scrum that didn't look solid.

I get it and I also get you want England to lose .

Your ridiculous anti Borthwick agenda is getting boring though

mountain man wrote:I get it and I also get you want England to lose .

Your ridiculous anti Borthwick agenda is getting boring though

Oh nooooo.

This feels like England's opportunity here! Got to come away with something!

Lawrence is having a stormer. If only England could find another 12 and okay Lawrence at 13.

Thank you Mr Jonker

Um....deliberate knock on? Late tackle?

Piss off Gardner you tit! Was clearly a deliberate knock on!

How did he even think that wasn't deliberate ....

I take it all back Marius

Wonders will never cease. Jonker didn't go against us...

And it's not a yellow because... ?

2nd YC bottled by Gardner

Posts. Take it beyond a converted try.

Was worried play had gone on for too long, or some other obscurity. Surprised at no YC for that.

Chance to grab a two score lead now.

Mr Bounce wrote:Wonders will never cease. Jonker didn't go against us...

That would have been TOO obvious ... don't know what Gardner was thinking

That is a yellow every day of year. Usually.

Bit lucky he came back after 2 breakdowns to check that as it's against the law ain't it?

They're up to what? 11 penalties now without a whisper of a yellow card?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bit lucky he came back after 2 breakdowns to check that as it's against the law ain't it?

Nope 3