Morgan Stoddart and me have two things in common...!

One is that neither of us are able to make it to the Welsh training camp next week in Spala Poland.

Two is that we have both pulled quad muscles, Stoddart in training for the possibility of a space in the Welsh squad for this Septembers Rugby World Cup, Me building a new shed.

Raises the questions we are all thinking regarding the current Welsh Squad, which is who else will get the chop tomorrow? According to various less than reliable sources in article printed in the Western Mail, Adam Jones, Gavin Henson and Shane Williams are all likely to fail the fitness tests that have been taking place at the Vale over the last few days.

Announcement on who is off to Spala tomorrow.

Best Wishes to young Morgan for a swift recovery and I hope he makes the squad. And dont worry about the shed, my wife finished it while i took a bath with lots of Radox.

What dimension are said Shed? Built from scratch or flat pack?

Coleman wrote:What dimension are said Shed? Built from scratch or flat pack?

Flatpack, but obviously a few things needed changing...

Is this shed a refuge from the wife?

SafeAsMilk wrote:Is this shed a refuge from the wife?

Ha ha ha... no its for her to do her potting in.

maestegmafia wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:Is this shed a refuge from the wife?

Ha ha ha... no its for her to do her potting in.

Ah. It's her refuge from you!

My shed's next door, greenhouse in between, we are doing the "good life" thing and trying to grow our own...

Sod that my partner and me each have our own rooms for solitude!
I never really considered a shed!

The World Cup is 2 months way there is plenty of time for the placers to get in shape.

Best thing I did was get Sky Multiroom now I can disappear to the shed and enjoy the sports in peace.

Cymroglan wrote:Best thing I did was get Sky Multiroom now I can disappear to the shed and enjoy the sports in peace.

For £10 extra a month!
Sod that I'd rather watch a stream!

AlynDavies wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:Best thing I did was get Sky Multiroom now I can disappear to the shed and enjoy the sports in peace.

For £10 extra a month!
Sod that I'd rather watch a stream!

I am a lucky man my missus is as passionate a fan as me.. unfortunately though she is Irish...

maestegmafia wrote:I am a lucky man my missus is as passionate a fan as me.. unfortunately though she is Irish...

FFS!
There will be bloody Connaght scouts watching your kids in Maesteg Comprehensive trying to get them to play for Ireland!
At least give the Ospreys first refusal or let them play for Wales U20 first? but not against New Zealand eh!

My kids are to old to play rugby with any seriousness mate.

and my grand kids too young and only a quarter Irish. Our household love Ireland and Wales, from a welsh perspective.

Anyhow...

So who else do you lads reckon will hit the headlines tomorrow for failing their fitness tests ?

So Gatland's habit of crippling the scarlets in teh welsh squad has started?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:So Gatland's habit of crippling the scarlets in teh welsh squad has started?

Maybe they are just more fragile than the rest...

God more fragile than the Ospreys, thats a terrible thought...

WALES PRELIMINARY RUGBY WORLD CUP SQUAD

FORWARDS:

Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets); Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), John Yapp (Cardiff Blues); Luke Charteris (Dragons), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Lou Reed (Scarlets); Gareth Delve (Melbourne Rebels), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Sam Warburton (Blues), Martyn Williams (Blues).

BACKS:

Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Dwayne Peel (Sale Sharks), Mike Phillips (Ospreys), Richie Rees (Blues), Lloyd Williams (Blues); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Jason Tovey (Dragons), James Hook (Perpigan); Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Gavin Henson (Unattached), Jamie Roberts (Blues); George North (Scarlets), Aled Brew (Dragons), Morgan Stoddart (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Lee Byrne (Clermont Auvergne), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).


I have highlighted those that I believe will not make the plane, as I have a horrible feeling that the unfit/injured players will be given pretty much until the plane leaves of NZ to recover.

Scarletspiderman:

100% agree with your analysis, I suspect like you there would be some changes if we were selecting the squad such as Bennett and Andy Powell, also I would have another second row to replace Charteris when he breaks down.

By the time the RWC starts it will be a different team due to injuries against England, Argentina and training so the other guys are not out of it..

Why no Delve ?

I think burns may sneak in ahead of Hibbard. No priestland?

Boys I was not saying the squad I personally would select, as personally I would select a totally different squad to begin with. I was guessing at what Mr Gatland will select, and that he will most likely take yet to prove fitness players.

I agree with your analysis SS

but when you look at the list of most likely players to be left behind it's depressing -
Burns (one of the form hookers in the league)
Owens (loads of potential, but not enough time since injury)
Andrews
Bevington (both young and need time to improve)
Yapp (good, though I suspect he'll make the plane undeservedly)
Lou Reed (out of all the locks we have, i think he's the one we need to leave)
Delve (shocking if he doesn't make it, but I think ur right and Gatland will be an idiot and pick Powell/R.Jones/J. Thomas)
McCusker, Turnbull and Tupric (agree)
Peel and Williams (would like to see one of them go instead of Phillips, but understand the agruement)
Priestland (very disappointed)
Tovey (disappointed but should have been given more exposure)
S Williams (understanably, he's very green)
Brew and Stoddart (one of them should def be on the plane)

Imagine if they dont select Phillips, theyll need security to stop him trying to force his way on the plane just for the inflight meal.

Was their any substance to the questions and Jones' fitness levels or was that just typical media hype?

I hope that gatland ends up with egg on his face, much like steve Hansen did in 2003. We were hopeless against tonga and then Hansen picked a so-called 2nd string, which gave the all blacks a real scare. In form players with a point to prove. Personally I think the welsh team will be very different to the one that gatland's been churning out. Some players like warburtom and lydiate have already made their mark and more will step up. Why though are we in this period of transition in WC year. Personally I think that gatlands missed a trick and hasn't taken opportunities to blood players when they could have been eg great to see s. Jones reach 100 caps, but priestland should have been given game time in the welsh jersey. What an opportunity missed. If there are injuries and priestland i's needed then 10 minutes against Scotland i's hardly preparation to play in a world cup.

Gatland is a conservative man by nature. He's only made changes to the side when injury's forced his hand, and if he's in doubt he'll come down in favour of a player he knows. He's been in charge for a good few years now, he's signed a contract to take him to 2011, why hasn't he tried as many players as possible to see how they fare? Marc Lievremont took a lot of stick for trying loads of different players, but now he knows who can cut it and who can't and he's got more players he can call on who have international experience.

You're right luckless. I remember gatland and howley being interviewed on a couch in the middle of a field (only on the BBC!) and gatland admitted that theyd maybe given more players an opportunity than he would have liked. It's fair to say my bottle of peroni flew across the room as I fell off my chair. At the time he was being criticised for not developing enough players.
I too used to use the lievremont analogy, but I've had to stop after the defeat to Italy. I used to think eventhough he was being ridiculed, he was using the autumn and six nations to develop a squad, but I'm not too sure now!
Gatland certainly hasn't used his time to build. He'd rather stuck with his tried and tested and try and turn his worsening record around. It hasn't worked and not enough players have been given time.

Seems to me Gatland gave time to a good few players. He's developing a young backrow with Lydiate and Warburton being new blood. Williams, Ryan, Thomas, Powell were all given game time too. Falatau is waiting in the wings.

At lock I saw plenty of experiementation and I think he developed a very good front row unit but a lack of depth.

Scrumhalf; Peel, Rees, Phillips, Knoyle have all played while Biggar, Hook, Jones and Priestland have got game time at 10.

There have been many centres and LOTS of wingers given a chance under Gatland. Fullback is his biggest weakness.

Forgot the main point of my post:

P.S. The problem wasn't not giving enough players chances it was not developing combinations and making a decision after 1 game that a player was either in or out.

stag - Gatland calls players up to replace injured ones, but even if they show well he drops them as soon as one of his prefered players is almost match fit. A good example is how Stoddart dropped straight from the starting team to not even making the bench during the 6Ns.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Gatland calls players up to replace injured ones, but even if they show well he drops them as soon as one of his prefered players is almost match fit. A good example is how Stoddart dropped straight from the starting team to not even making the bench during the 6Ns.

Thats what I was trying to imply (over 2 posts). Numbers of players played wasn't the issue. It was his attitude towards them but there were lots of game time given to players. I have been impressed with his development of the Welsh pack though.

red_stag wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Gatland calls players up to replace injured ones, but even if they show well he drops them as soon as one of his prefered players is almost match fit. A good example is how Stoddart dropped straight from the starting team to not even making the bench during the 6Ns.

Thats what I was trying to imply (over 2 posts). Numbers of players played wasn't the issue. It was his attitude towards them but there were lots of game time given to players. I have been impressed with his development of the Welsh pack though.

THe selection in the pack has been very consistent. Particularly the front five. So development has worked well.

You have to take into account the teams we have played against as well. You can only play a variety of new back moves against the top three teams in the world if you are competing with them up front.

No wonder the front five have improved, they have had a tough time at the coal face.

i think the problem has been that gatland recognised that the forwards WERE wales' weak point and has built them so they cna compete with the likes of SA, AUS, NZ etc and kind of forgotten the backs so now while we have a good platform for the backs to work off they are become idle and havent been pushed for places causing lack of form etc.

scarlet spiderman i think priestland and stoddart will both be on the plane, priestland seems to be 2nd/3rd choice (depends on how you regard hook) and for a WC i would say you need at least 2 fly halves, and since hook is a utility back i think priestland will go, stoddart played well every time he has been in a welsh shirt so see no reason why he shouldnt be on the plane

welshy824 wrote:i think the problem has been that gatland recognised that the forwards WERE wales' weak point and has built them so they cna compete with the likes of SA, AUS, NZ etc and kind of forgotten the backs so now while we have a good platform for the backs to work off they are become idle and havent been pushed for places causing lack of form etc.

I dont think anyone ignored the backs.

The players aren't doing anything more imaginative for their regions than they are for Wales. Steven Jones and Mike Phillips game control has been the main limiting factor.

welshy824 wrote:scarlet spiderman i think priestland and stoddart will both be on the plane, priestland seems to be 2nd/3rd choice (depends on how you regard hook) and for a WC i would say you need at least 2 fly halves, and since hook is a utility back i think priestland will go, stoddart played well every time he has been in a welsh shirt so see no reason why he shouldnt be on the plane

Agreed

ScarletSpiderman wrote:stag - Gatland calls players up to replace injured ones, but even if they show well he drops them as soon as one of his prefered players is almost match fit. A good example is how Stoddart dropped straight from the starting team to not even making the bench during the 6Ns.

He's not picked because he couldnt stop a determined 5 year old on a tricycle, players that cant tackle arent picked, their used as stop gaps.

[quote="maestegmafiaI dont think anyone ignored the backs.[/quote]
i dont mean ignored the backs but if you notice this season alot of emphasis has been with the forwards, so gatland has been quite clever, from when we found out our group in the world cup we have focussed alot on the forwards making them strong allowing for us to have a strong base, which we will need against the likes of SA as they try to dominate with their forwards and then against the likes of fiji and samoa our set pieces will be much sharper and we can dominate them at the breakdown. so in reality GATLAND IS A GENIUS. problem is once we get to the 1/4 we will play ireland (not too bad) or AUS (we are stuffed, as their back will dominate us)

welshy824 wrote:[quote="maestegmafiaI dont think anyone ignored the backs.

i dont mean ignored the backs but if you notice this season alot of emphasis has been with the forwards, so gatland has been quite clever, from when we found out our group in the world cup we have focussed alot on the forwards making them strong allowing for us to have a strong base, which we will need against the likes of SA as they try to dominate with their forwards and then against the likes of fiji and samoa our set pieces will be much sharper and we can dominate them at the breakdown. so in reality GATLAND IS A GENIUS. problem is once we get to the 1/4 we will play ireland (not too bad) or AUS (we are stuffed, as their back will dominate us)[/quote]

The aussie backs are a scary thought for anyone. But last time we played them we were playing them we were missing our choice front five, might be a more interesting contest than we thought if the forwards are on form...

Red stag.
You said that lots of players have been given game time, but not enough Tim.
Faletau 1 cap.
Tovey 0.
Priestland. 10 mins v Scotland.
Lloyd burns. 15 minutes.
Knoyle. 1/2 caps?
Lloyd Williams. 0.
Bevington. 1 cap?
Turnbull, mccusker, brew, harries.
Players have has s chance, but not much of one. I thought the ba bas game was perfect for priestland to start. We know what s. Jones can do, so what was the point?
I agree with spiderman that gatland's only tried new players because of injuries and gatland admitted as much.

manofgwent wrote:Red stag.
You said that lots of players have been given game time, but not enough Tim.
Faletau 1 cap.
Tovey 0.
Priestland. 10 mins v Scotland.
Lloyd burns. 15 minutes.
Knoyle. 1/2 caps?
Lloyd Williams. 0.
Bevington. 1 cap?
Turnbull, mccusker, brew, harries.
Players have has s chance, but not much of one. I thought the ba bas game was perfect for priestland to start. We know what s. Jones can do, so what was the point?
I agree with spiderman that gatland's only tried new players because of injuries and gatland admitted as much.

You suggest that all those players should have had equal game time with the players incumbent?

Alyn - did you watch the Baabaa's game at all. Stoddart put Sergio Parrise (spelling is poor sorry) on his backside numerous times. Yes he was turned inside out for the last try, but he is far better in defence than people make out. Also I have a feeling you are a man who would like to see more game time for Henson, even though he actually backed out of the tackle half a dozen times in that match.

What should have happened is (I'll leave MOG's original cap stats and write mine in brackets).
Faletau 1 cap (should have been capped against Fiji, as our backrow bar Lydiate at 7 was awful)
Tovey 0 (Don't mind Priestland getting a start over him and I think Priestland will get at least one in the Summer games)
Priestland. 10 mins v Scotland (see above)
Lloyd burns. 15 minutes (still better than Bennett even if he was a bit over eager and gave away a few pens)
Knoyle. 1/2 caps (needs to start at least one if not two games. You can't say that he shows better service than Phillips or faster until he starts) (Coming off the bench and knowing what to do is easy).
Lloyd Williams. 0 (not gonna get a chance now)
Bevington. 1 cap (If Melon is fit, then RB won't get another chance).
Turnbull, mccusker, brew, harries (I'd take either backrow over Jon Thomas or Andy Powell, I'd take Brew as he is the most in form Welsh winger especially when he gets the ball (which he doesn't get) and wouldn't even mention Harries with regards to any Welsh squad place, as firstly he's injured and secondly if you had to mention another Dragons wing it should be Adam Hughes in form over the Dragons season.

Red Stag - I think what everyone is saying is that while as you say we have Lydiate and Warburton playing flanks with Jones, J Thomas, Powell and Williams all having game time, its the fact that them 4 players were almost ever present in the team for 3 years, where as Warburton and Lydiate have had what 6 months together to bed down as our best 6/7 pairing.
Same with number 10, Jones (who I rate) has been the incumbant for 3 years (good, he does a good job), but Hook has played maybe 3 games there, Priestland 15 mins, Biggar 4(?) games and dropped straight after almost every one, and Tovey hasn't even got a look in. Same with scrum half, he only ever played anyone other than Phillips (and Cooper) when Phillips was injured, or if it was a smaller nation, as soon as he was fit that S/H would be dropped.

As such going into our summer games we don't know what our best combinations are, we have established players who are comfortable and out of form, and young, talented players biting at the bit but inexperienced (like Priestland, Tovey, Faletau, and even Brew)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Alyn - did you watch the Baabaa's game at all. Stoddart put Sergio Parrise (spelling is poor sorry) on his backside numerous times. Yes he was turned inside out for the last try, but he is far better in defence than people make out. Also I have a feeling you are a man who would like to see more game time for Henson, even though he actually backed out of the tackle half a dozen times in that match.

Actually he wasnt turned inside out, he held off on the tackle trying to get someone else to do it, he should of commited himself and smashed the try scorer, he cost us the game.
I think Henson should of had a chance against the Barbarians but I wouldnt pick him against England or Argentina, nor take him to the world Cup.

Hope the shed is working out

Thomond wrote:Hope the shed is working out

Yep

I've been painting it wimbledon colours, dark green with purple windows while my wife watches Andy Murray...!

It sounds like we're pretty much in agreement that gatland gas left it too late now for certain players to stake a claim.
We haven't built a team for the WC. We have a squad that i's somewhere between the 2008 grand slam and the next generation and I think gatland has prefered to pick his tried and tested.
Risca. I know my stats are a bit sketchy and I agree that faletau should have played against Fiji.
I think opportunities to introduce new players have been missed. Last summer we played s. Africa. We picked our strongest side, whereas the boks only brought over a few regulars. Result. We still lost! What annoys me though is that if we'd have between a great but depleted team, we probably would have released a DVD and the media would think that we could do them in the WC.
I just don't think warren has been bold enough, but if he stays on after the WC I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of s. Jones, sideways jones and any other player around the 30 mark are still involved. What should happen i's that a lot should be cut and we just bring through the new generation. Ok maybe we don't have the player base to do this and maybe I'm wrong, but the all blacks pretty much release players even in their late 20's. Results may not be pretty, but we haven't been competing in the autumn internationals and aren't doing much better in the 6n. My belief i's though in 2,3 and 4 years time, results will be good and we'll have an in form team going into the next WC.
I'm prepared to be shot to bits!!!!

manofgwent wrote:It sounds like we're pretty much in agreement that gatland gas left it too late now for certain players to stake a claim.
We haven't built a team for the WC. We have a squad that i's somewhere between the 2008 grand slam and the next generation and I think gatland has prefered to pick his tried and tested.
Risca. I know my stats are a bit sketchy and I agree that faletau should have played against Fiji.
I think opportunities to introduce new players have been missed. Last summer we played s. Africa. We picked our strongest side, whereas the boks only brought over a few regulars. Result. We still lost! What annoys me though is that if we'd have between a great but depleted team, we probably would have released a DVD and the media would think that we could do them in the WC.
I just don't think warren has been bold enough, but if he stays on after the WC I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of s. Jones, sideways jones and any other player around the 30 mark are still involved. What should happen i's that a lot should be cut and we just bring through the new generation. Ok maybe we don't have the player base to do this and maybe I'm wrong, but the all blacks pretty much release players even in their late 20's. Results may not be pretty, but we haven't been competing in the autumn internationals and aren't doing much better in the 6n. My belief i's though in 2,3 and 4 years time, results will be good and we'll have an in form team going into the next WC.
I'm prepared to be shot to bits!!!!

Yeah I'm with you on this. But I do think Wales will make a better account of themselves than most welsh posters on this board presume

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/13992149.stm


Stevo also missing the training camp due to the impending birth of his first child.

Delve, Hibbard and Peel join him and Stoddart in missing the training camp.

http://www.wru.co.uk/26873.php

Stoddart is now going to the training camp in place of the injured Jason Tovey (nerve problem in his back) They say Stodds is now far along enough in his rehab to benefit from going to Poland.

stoddart good attacker and knows where the try line is .However at test level he is a poor defender, the idea of him being one on one with some of these fijian flyers or the likes of habana does not instill me with confidence.
This is even more apparent if we have him and shane in the same back 3, now given halfpenny injury record it's clear stoddart is likely to go but I see him as a bench option.

Byrne is our starting xv (even if he isn;t playing well) with shane and north as first choice wingers , halfpenny and stoddart will cover harsh on brew who for me is a better fit for our back 3 against this opposition in the world cup

Great to hear stoddart is on the mend.. more the merrier...! great player and can only help intensify the competition in the back three.