Is today the day ?

Four months after the lockout began there seems increased optimism that by the end of talks today there will be a framework for a new CBA.
Probbaly not worth getting carried away yet but there have been some very positive noises in recent days and of course the judge disappears on holiday tomorrow, without an agreement today it's almost certain some of the season will be lost but more importantly the momentum of this round of negotiations ends and we're back in 'start again' territory.
I'm backing they'll reach a deal today....

I really hope you're right Grizzly, I'm not sure I'm as confident as you are but it does seem that they are closer than they have been for a while. I saw a report somewhere yesterday that said that revenue sharing still hadn't been seriously discussed though.

What a great start to the weekend a CBA would be.

I imagine a lot of what is being leaked to the press is expectation management, but here is a bucket of cold water:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820aa60a/article/rookie-compensation-free-agency-remain-issues-in-labor-talks-?module=HP_headlines

There seem to be issues raised in the article which haven't really been mentioned before.

They are small issues compared to the revenue split. July 15th is the real deadline day for the CBA.

I don't reckon today is the day, I think something gets done next week.

I believe the legal stuff will take around 2 weeks to complete so if all parties agree in principal today the CBA won't be in place until end July and there's every chance there'll be stumbles along the legal way.
I just think the players (especially the rookies) and the fans need to know, I wonder what the season ticket sales are like ?
I see nothing but hate on every NFL message board, fans boycotting games etc.

Prw4n - not sure how good the chances are of progress next week without the judge who seems to have made everything tick so far, without his input are all parties willing (or capable) of sitting down and working together ?

If an agreement is made in principle today, will the lockout be lifted?

From what I've read most people seem to thing that a handshake is enough for business to start on the assumption that the paperwork will follow.

Pr4wn wrote:If an agreement is made in principle today, will the lockout be lifted?

It's a good question Pr4wn, my guess would be no, I think there would be insurance issues until anything is signed

I doubt it as the old CBA has expired, leaving no framework for FA etc. Do you want to start any OTA's, medical appointments etc. with a bunch of guys that may not be insured etc? What about a paying for a months worth of medical treatment for an injured vet only to find he's a free agent by then?

Not show stoppers by any means, but owners won;t want to be wasting money or putting their organisation at risk if nothing legal is in place.

This seems to be a more realistic look at what's still to be negotiated:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820aa60a/article/rookie-compensation-free-agency-remain-issues-in-labor-talks-?module=HP_headlines

That was posted by GB1919 above.

Try to keep up skins...

Doh! I scrolled past that link earlier and missed it. I don't need to keep up, I need to slow down and read the detail...

Even if they agree a framework it wont be signed, sealed and delivered until next week. 24 Owners have to vote in its favour iirc, which will happen, but will take time to organise. The lawyers will check it over also.

The NFL 'experts' on the radio are saying they're expecting an agreement in principle by July 15.

End it already!

On NFL Total Access earlier (or yesterdays for those in America) they were pointing out that if it's not done by the end of next week, then they'll miss the Hall of Fame game which is when they start loosing money, and the general significance of the Hall of Fame game.

Little progress made at the end of ten hours of negotiations on the 8th, talks due to resume on Monday with the players and owners joining their staff on Tuesday/ Wednesday. It won't be long until pre-season games will have to be axed and according to the NFL estimates they stand to lose $1bill if there is no pre-season at all.

The players are expected to report to training camp on July 22nd for the HOF game, surely there has to be an agreement before the deadline, there's going to be far too much at stake for both sides.

I'm even more irritated now than I was a few weeks ago.

Sure, boys. Take the weekend off, don't worry about it.

I don't think it's as simple as them taking the weekend off. I've read that they do loads of work during the weekend while they're not meeting, not all of this can be achieved locked in a room together negotiating they need to talk to their own camps as well and have time to think of a strategy.

They've been taking weekends off for months anyway.

Had they started talking before March 12 they may have made sufficient progress to have avoided a lockout in the first place.
Makes you wonder why they gave a 7 day extension in March given that we're now in Mid July and still no CBA...

The players decided to hedge their bets that they would win the court case. Had the lockout been thrown out they would've gained the upper hand in negotiations. That didn't happen for very long.

Besides in March they weren't losing any money. Now they stand to miss out on a lot of cash very soon.

Grizzly wrote:Had they started talking before March 12 they may have made sufficient progress to have avoided a lockout in the first place.
Makes you wonder why they gave a 7 day extension in March given that we're now in Mid July and still no CBA...

I'd totally forgotten about that 7 day extension and the universal optimism that accompanied it. It does seem crazy given where we are now but I suppose the reality is that there haven't been any pressure points between then and now. Quite a few of the current players seem to actually have enjoyed the lockout judging by some of the tweets that have been reported.

My feeling is that if a deal isn't done this week then the players will have to accept a significant reduction if we are going to have football this year. It'll hurt both groups the longer it goes from now but it will definitely hurt players more giving the owners the advantage.

The financial advantage is marginally with the owners, but when they start losing money hand over fist they will be keener to get a deal done, so they can only hold out a few weeks longer than the players. Remember they have to pay or release staff, stadium and training facility rentals/costs etc, let alone losing TV and ticket revenue.

The playing advantage is going to actually be with teams that have had a low turnover of players, deep roster etc. I doubt anyone will be making major play book changes with no OTA's to familiarise new players etc. Those with a high turnover of players are going to have more work to do in camp to get everyone up to speed. Consequently, whilst its no a big edge, those owners with 'stable' teams will be less willing to compromise as much as some of the others.

I'm just exceedingly bored with this whole debacle.

I have no sympathy for either side any more.

More or less what I said when all this started back on 606, Pr4wn. I was on nobody's side in this- I just want to see this years NFL. Talks resume today with rookie salaries top on the agenda.

If this weeks deadline (Friday) is missed then that will eat into the pre-season. At this point I'm trying to find an NCAA team to support.

Shame they don't show anything like that on Sky, if there's no NFL this year I'll have to fork out another subscription for ESPN...

Why not cancel Sky Sports and swap for ESPN? I'm certainly thinking about it.

Maybe a little extra pressure from outside the US will help a little?

I like my football and cricket too much...

I don't bother with Sly Sports. If you're into US Sports then ESPN is fantastic, you get MNF, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA Football & Basketball championships with ESPN America. And you get ESPN UK & Classic where there's decent coverage of the MLS and English Prem soccer and rugby. Apart from the NFL games Sly cover the only other thing I'd miss not having Sly is southern hem rugby and NRL.

If you've not already got ESPN lads then I'd highly recommend it.

Yeah I guess its cheaper to watch the cricket than spend a fortune on sleeping tablets.

Does make me wonder if there's any avenue for fans (mainly in the US I expect) to be able to challenge for rebates if the season does not go ahead (or at least not on schedule). Suppose it depends on what kind of compensation model you look at. Unlikely, but if every fan was able to claim, say 50c per game, the NFL would be looking at a few million in costs.

Maybe the fans should launch a class action?

ESPN is carrying a story that a deal is almost immineint (SP) and could be verbally agreed to by 21st July, with a day or 2 for rookies and undrafted uys to get signed, then FA to open by 25th July, from what I can gather several big name teams might be over the cap inc Dallas, Raiders, Giants, Colts, so looks like a lot of wheeling and dealing will need to happen just from some teams to hit FA

Leeds - I read that the time taken from verbal agreement to legal completion was around 2 weeks, so if they only agree verbally by 21 July the CBA doesn't get signed until early August which would mean at least HOF game and 2 weeks of pre-season lost, camp time, reduced FA and about $400m, it'll be a shambles.
Of course they won't allow reg season games to be lost but what shape the vets are in is anyones guess and the rookies will pretty much go straight into reg season without conditioning, strengthening and probably not fully aware of the playbook.

If they have an agreement in principle, the question is will the owners end the lockout on that basis and allow camp to start before its down in writing?

If not then I can see what you are predicting coming true. If so, then I think FA will be highly important to many teams as they will want veterans in key positions and not rookies, especially on offense. Teams that are going to be reliant on rookie QB's etc. are probably going to struggle.