Ireland to perform the best of the NH?

Sneaky feeling - Ireland have the 2 best flyhalves at wet weather management - getting the ball into the right areas of the pitch and applying pressure. I suspect this will be important in a wet and windy NZ.

Will we also see more of Wilkinson in an England shirt as a result of the same?

Surely you are not basing your assumption of Ireland performing the best in New Zealand only on flyhalves?

Madness! Utter madness, does anyone have a straight-jacket? An expectation that Ireland will move from the perennial underachievers of NH rugby at the RWC to the gold standard. Some seriously poor outings from France, England and Wales for this to happen.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Madness! Utter madness, does anyone have a straight-jacket? An expectation that Ireland will move from the perennial underachievers of NH rugby at the RWC to the gold standard. Some seriously poor outings from France, England and Wales for this to happen.

How matter how much you talk yourselves down, you're going into this competition (possibly) as the top ranking NH side. You should therefore do the best.

We shouldn't expect it anyway. England should as they have a fairly straightforward path without a tri nations side in there way til possibly the semis

so because it could rain Ireland should be the best, I'm i missing something.

Are we the only ones that get rain in the NH.
Its time to pack my suitcase if it is.

I think you could be correct.

Ireland have been on great form for a long time now, thy are always there or there abouts in the Six Nations and I don't think anyone takes them lightly.

I wouldn't be surprised if they made it to the Semis or further. I have a feeling that they are this RWCs Argentina.

<tagsirelandandrunsaway> Ha ha, you're it!

This now means you have to quaff from the poisioned chalice that is 'best' NH side. How does it taste?

maestegmafia wrote:I think you could be correct.

Ireland have been on great form for a long time now, thy are always there or there abouts in the Six Nations and I don't think anyone takes them lightly.

I wouldn't be surprised if they made it to the Semis or further. I have a feeling that they are this RWCs Argentina.

We've been on great form??????????

Ireland have been (by and large) dire for the past year. The game against England was the only redeeming feature of our 6N. At provincial level Leinster look like the best HEC champions that i can remember but unless that template can be translated to the Irish team we will flatter to deceive once again.

England with their probable path should do the best given that they seem to have an indian sign over france

Is their RWC group really a foregone conclusion? Italy could well spring an upset as they almost did against Ireland in the 6 nations and did against France.

Australia won't just roll over.

Ireland don't exactly have the best world cup pedigree either.

beshocked wrote:Is their RWC group really a foregone conclusion? Italy could well spring an upset as they almost did against Ireland in the 6 nations and did against France.

Australia won't just roll over.

Ireland don't exactly have the best world cup pedigree either.

The group is by no means a foregone conclusion and after the scare against Italy this year i certainly wont be discounting them.

The pedigree arguement is stupid. What has the performance of any of the past world cups got to do with this team.

To me Italy aren't a major threat. Good but they can't play on the road IMO.

red_stag wrote:To me Italy aren't a major threat. Good but they can't play on the road IMO.

Quite right, the tarmac really puts 'em off.

Carpe Diem wrote:

red_stag wrote:To me Italy aren't a major threat. Good but they can't play on the road IMO.

Quite right, the tarmac really puts 'em off.

caoimhincentre wrote:

beshocked wrote:Is their RWC group really a foregone conclusion? Italy could well spring an upset as they almost did against Ireland in the 6 nations and did against France.

Australia won't just roll over.

Ireland don't exactly have the best world cup pedigree either.

The group is by no means a foregone conclusion and after the scare against Italy this year i certainly wont be discounting them.

The pedigree arguement is stupid. What has the performance of any of the past world cups got to do with this team.

Caoimhincentre some of your players were in the previous world cup, they might not enjoy the pressure. Beating England doesn't make you the best in the NH in my opinion.

Every side has a pyschological edge - England over France and Australia, Ireland over England, France over Ireland,South Africa over Wales and England,NZ over all the NH sides.

beshocked wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

beshocked wrote:Is their RWC group really a foregone conclusion? Italy could well spring an upset as they almost did against Ireland in the 6 nations and did against France.

Australia won't just roll over.

Ireland don't exactly have the best world cup pedigree either.

The group is by no means a foregone conclusion and after the scare against Italy this year i certainly wont be discounting them.

The pedigree arguement is stupid. What has the performance of any of the past world cups got to do with this team.

Caoimhincentre some of your players were in the previous world cup, they might not enjoy the pressure. Beating England doesn't make you the best in the NH in my opinion.

Every side has a pyschological edge - England over France and Australia, Ireland over England, France over Ireland,South Africa over Wales and England,NZ over all the NH sides.

Since the last RWC, they have won a Grand Slam. That will be a boost, not to mention that a fair few of the players will have played in two Heineken Cup finals now and have come out on top. How valuable an experience will it be for the Leinster players and particularly Sexton to know they could come back like Leinster did. They won't be giving up in NZ.

The other major factor is Ireland's coach's pedigree who is a master at instilling belief into teams.

Ireland may have come out looking best from the 6 Nations following their defeat of England, but their form before that was pretty poor. And England did actually win the competition.

There's no escaping that England have the RWC pedigree, and always do well in the comp. To date, they are the NHs best RWC team - if that's the right phrase to use. They were also fortunate to have been seeded in the second tier of teams for the RWC and to land in Argentina's pool, avoiding one of the SANZAR teams.

It's interesting that the pool seedings which were based on IRB rankings from 2008 would throw up a somewhat different mix now - since 2008, the top 8 teams have all changed rankings, with only New Zealand regaining its top spot ranking.

Sin é wrote:

beshocked wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

beshocked wrote:Is their RWC group really a foregone conclusion? Italy could well spring an upset as they almost did against Ireland in the 6 nations and did against France.

Australia won't just roll over.

Ireland don't exactly have the best world cup pedigree either.

The group is by no means a foregone conclusion and after the scare against Italy this year i certainly wont be discounting them.

The pedigree arguement is stupid. What has the performance of any of the past world cups got to do with this team.

.


Caoimhincentre some of your players were in the previous world cup, they might not enjoy the pressure. Beating England doesn't make you the best in the NH in my opinion.

Every side has a pyschological edge - England over France and Australia, Ireland over England, France over Ireland,South Africa over Wales and England,NZ over all the NH sides.

Since the last RWC, they have won a Grand Slam. That will be a boost, not to mention that a fair few of the players will have played in two Heineken Cup finals now and have come out on top. How valuable an experience will it be for the Leinster players and particularly Sexton to know they could come back like Leinster did. They won't be giving up in NZ.

The other major factor is Ireland's coach's pedigree who is a master at instilling belief into teams.

+ 1.

Before 09 Ireland had no grandslam pedigree.

By your argument they shouldn't have won the grand slam that year

Yep. He has many a critic on these boards, and some of what is said is certainly accurate and has its merits, but Declan Kidney is the ideal coach to have in a tournament structure such as an RWC.

He wont have let the IRFU book an ugly, under equiped boring Hotel in the middle of nowhere, leaving the players with two choices with their down time, more training or sleep.

Secondly he will nail the motivation and the players have such experience and experience of winning (6N, 3 HCs and 3 Pro 12(ML) titles) since the last RWC.

Thirdly, the will have more pre Tournament matches under the belts and I am certain that a private in-house 'what-went-wrong-the-last-time' meeting has been held, covering all the little things that were an issue.

The team around Kidney also appear to be on the ball in term of learning from past mistakes and while everyone else is also in the process of adaptation and augmentation of their offensive and defensive systems, i dont think we will be found wanting in this area.

Finally, as lots of player will either be retiring or definately ast their peak come November, I can see them going out with the mentality that they shan't die wondering. The irony of a certain EOS entitling his auto with this phrase was not lost on the rugby public and I doubt it was lost on his players either.

We could lose two pool matches and be home early or we could go all the way, but whatever happens I do not think our ultimate result will have been down to our collective and individual performances but rather our opponants will have to beat us to win rather than us beating ourselves, if you get me.

Where that puts us in the pantheon of NH rugby is irrelevant in the sense that a 1/4 is the minimum, preferably getting there as group winners and thereafter the cup run mentality and Deccie's skills will hopefully come to the fore; and that four will become a single cohesive and clinical Squad & Team.

The quarter-finals is not the minimum. The IRFU set reaching the semis as a business target along with winning a H Cup, couple of ML titles, and a Grand Slam.

Four down, one to go.

We should be aiming to make the semi finals. Beat Australia and we have a chance of getting there. Hopefully the performance against England will have filled the lads with confidence as will the victories of Leinster and Munster in this year's HC and ML respectively. Ulster players will also be going in confident after one of their more promising seasons in recent years.

Sneaky feeling - Ireland have the 2 best flyhalves at wet weather management - getting the ball into the right areas of the pitch and applying pressure. I suspect this will be important in a wet and windy NZ.

I think June, July and August are the wettest months. I hope you've got some 'dry weather' tactics just in case!

England clearly have the best chance of going further than any northern team. Ireland can't get to the semi's without beating at least one tri nations team. England can get there without facing any team ranked higher than them.

I agree about England's chances.

Impossible to predict how the French will play but i think that they have the most talent of any European side.

But God help me though i'm feeling optimistic again about Ireland and i think that the team will make the semi's.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I think you could be correct.

Ireland have been on great form for a long time now, thy are always there or there abouts in the Six Nations and I don't think anyone takes them lightly.

I wouldn't be surprised if they made it to the Semis or further. I have a feeling that they are this RWCs Argentina.

We've been on great form??????????

well if they haven't won the six nations they have been top three for nearly ten years now, have beaten all but the All Blacks. Finished the Six nations on blistering form, have strength and depth in almost all positions and some truely world class players in the back row and center.

They are actually a lot stronger than the Argies were and have been consistently there or there abouts for a long while.

Anything other than a semi final is quite clearly an unsuccessful World Cup. I do think they will make it to the semis and then lose to NZ.

It's relatively easy to imagine England beating Argentina, scotland and france and reaching the semi's.

It is not so easy to imagine Ireland beating Australia and Wales or S.Africa

Yes we have great players and we have done well in the 6n and HCup over the last few years but our summer and Autumn tests have been pretty poor on average.

France like it down in NZ and as for England the Scots will be the toughest game, once that hurdle is cleared then I expect nothing short of a semi final appearence.

I just can't see Ireland doing anything in the RWC apart from making up the numbers

BATH_BTGOG wrote:France like it down in NZ and as for England the Scots will be the toughest game, once that hurdle is cleared then I expect nothing short of a semi final appearence.

I just can't see Ireland doing anything in the RWC apart from making up the numbers

My god thats arrogent of you.

You expect that you will just stroll on past the french, and thats assuming they lose to NZ which is by no means a certainty as the french have proved in the last few years.

There is a chance England may not get out of their group. Maybe a year and a half ago I would have put money on it, not much but I would have. since then you have hit form.
Argentina could beat you still however.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:It's relatively easy to imagine England beating Argentina, scotland and france and reaching the semi's.

It is not so easy to imagine Ireland beating Australia and Wales or S.Africa

Yes we have great players and we have done well in the 6n and HCup over the last few years but our summer and Autumn tests have been pretty poor on average.

If Ireland beat Italy and SA they are in the semis. The other possible scenario is if the beat Oz, Italy and Wales or Fiji they are also in the semis. They have achieved victories against each of those teams in recent years so there is no reason to suggest they cannot do it in NZ.

Basically to make it to the semis they will most likely have to beat one team ranked above them: Oz or SA.

Ireland Oz games at world cups are often very close and we owe them a beating. Don't rule it out!

Ireland have three wins from four against SA and despite this one being played at a neutral venue they will have the belief and on a good day forward nous to outmuscle SA.

leinsterbaby wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:It's relatively easy to imagine England beating Argentina, scotland and france and reaching the semi's.

It is not so easy to imagine Ireland beating Australia and Wales or S.Africa

Yes we have great players and we have done well in the 6n and HCup over the last few years but our summer and Autumn tests have been pretty poor on average.

They have achieved victories against each of those teams in recent years so there is no reason to suggest they cannot do it in NZ.
.

Which recent year did Ireland beat Australia?

We drew with them last year and beat them about 4 years ago. We have not played them much in the last four years but our two test in Oz this were quite close despite us fielding a second string team with some very inexperienced players.

https://www.606v2.com/t5144-which-nh-team-will-get-furthest-in-the-world-cup

We ran a poll a while back if you are interested. Ireland came third at the time.

leinsterbaby wrote:We drew with them last year and beat them about 4 years ago. We have not played them much in the last four years but our two test in Oz this were quite close despite us fielding a second string team with some very inexperienced players.

Did a quick search and last time was 5 years ago in Ireland in very poor conditions. I think the last time Ireland beat Wallabies outside of Ireland was in 1979. I think you will find the Wallabies now are a completely different proposition than they were in last year's June tests. Anyway, I rate Ireland as a danger side.

Basically in the last 4 games v Oz Ireland have won one drawn one and lost 2 in Oz both by about one score. Surely this recent history is enough to suggest Ireland on their day have the ammo to beat Aus. Sure Aus are in the up at the moment but are capable of disappearing spectacularly as shown by recent losses to England and Scotland.

Do you remember the last RWC group game in Aus where Ireland played Aus. Aus won by one point in one of the best games of the group stages? It was a cracker. The game in NZ will be close, don't rule out a narrow Ireland win. This is probably the best Ireland squad ever.

Don't disagree. Twickenam was a low light of the year. And Johnson can thank Matt Giteau for missing a sitter of a penalty goal for Engalnd's win in Aust - allowing Johnson to keep his job. He also missed a sitter in the 2009 Scotland game handing them the win.

Ireland are capable of winning - but they have to bring their absolute A game on the day on a neutral ground - I'm not sure they have the consistency though.

Agreed, the consistency hasn't been there and at times they havent gelled. I don't think the current boss has done a great job of getting the best out of the players though he is a good manager and I think Ireland will come good on time. It will probably be Drico,POC, ROG, Wallace and Ferris' last WC. These guys have a lot of character and will be very keen to leave their Mark on world rugby before they move on. I expect some big performances this time around as they have a point to prove after the disaster that was the 07 WC.