how has haye become so bad ?

if someone had told me two years ago that people would be saying that chisora and haye were on the same level and boxers like tyson fury would be saying they are better than haye i would have thought they were mad ! , but what has happend to haye its like he has hit rock bottom , surely he has only lost a fight against a world class atg heavy ? was it the manner he lost and drasticly underperformed ? or the fact he has been telling everyone for two years how he would destroy wlad ? Personally i still think hes a great boxer and by far superior to the likes of chisora and fury in terms of ability but i belive peoples opinions have changed so much towards him because of his lack of desire and time between fights.

after looking impresive against mormeck enzo and then stepping up to heavy to face barret his performences and carear have got worse imo, , since the valuev fight in fact and that was nothing special , maybe the celeb status and chat shows have gone to his head but valuev was a year and half ago and WHO has he fought since then ? FRAUDLEY which was all about the celeb status and peoples opinions of him again began to change, than eight long months of talking of all the things he was gonna do to wlad was just setting himself for a big fall , Then the massive dissapointment of the wlad fight where his performence was imo the worst of his carear [ even though the injurey woulent of helped ] . its like he has fallen to the bottem of the ladder ,
I really hope haye decides to carry on and do what he does best , he really needs to take on a top heavy and maybe a chisora [ to shut frank warren up] to get people back on side and to eventually fight a klit .

You've more or less hit the nail on the head; he's alienated the public somewhat, people don't like him all that much as a result, and therefore some of them let their heart rule their head and come out with a load of garbage.

I agree that Haye deserves a certain amount of criticism for his performance against Wladimir. I also agree that he has a seriously large amount of egg to wipe off his face given all the talking and daft publicity stunts he's done over the last year or two. But when people make outrageous claims such as 'he's a useless bum', or 'Chisora and Fury will spark him', or 'he did nothing to deserve a fight with Wladimir', you know they simply can't see past their dislike of the man.

Summed it up perfectly Chris, as with everything boxing related, some degree of objectivity is required.

Unfortunately, boxing seems to be the sport where it's fans are the least objective. That is just the nature of the beast, as fighters obviously talk themselves up, yet someone has to lose.

I think it's fair to judge him by the standards and levels he set for himself, also by the garbage that came out of his mouth. His peformance fell way below the levels promised, he also let himself down badly in the way he conducted himself before and after the fight.

His stock has plummeted and it's up to him to rebuild if he wants to be taken seriously again. He has a lot of making up to do.

It's one bad performance! He did what he had to do against valuev and Harrison he shouldnt b hammered for those fights. The end game was always Wlad but he didn't produce on the night. He still has the tools imho if they are applied correctly.

To say he is not well liked is rubbish and the thousands that went to Hamburg prove that. People were disappointed thats natural but some of the aftermath has been a joke. Haye should regroup, have a fight or two against ranked opposition then go for a klit again.

To compare haye to idiots like fury is a joke too.

owls101 wrote:It's one bad performance! He did what he had to do against valuev and Harrison he shouldnt b hammered for those fights. The end game was always Wlad but he didn't produce on the night. He still has the tools imho if they are applied correctly.

To say he is not well liked is rubbish and the thousands that went to Hamburg prove that. People were disappointed thats natural but some of the aftermath has been a joke. Haye should regroup, have a fight or two against ranked opposition then go for a klit again.

To compare haye to idiots like fury is a joke too.

nice to hear someone be positive about haye , i was in hamburg and was truley gutted after ! but hes popularity has gone down . i just hope he still has the desire to come back because he isnt getting a go against a klit for long time ,

I was completely gutted ry. It would have been great to have been there to see a British HW become unified champion.

Hamburg was still class though mate!

The desire is the key thing.does he have it? I'm not sure but I just get a feeling that haye will get another shot at this and hope he can deliver this time. Time will tell but he said he would make decision on plans after a couple of weeks so hopefully some news soon.

It is the same straight away on the back of any massively disappointing performance, was the same when Manny sparked Hatton, the reaction to that would have had you believe Ricky would have been chased out of the ring by Gavin Rees. Would guess things are a little amplified with Haye because think a lot of people gave him a genuine chance in this one and also because even if you didn't think he would win people thought he would go out on his shield or give it a real go, think half of the fury in the reaction is for all his talk he went out about as meekly as many of the guys he had derided.

If past experience is anything to go by once the dust settles people will realise that Haye is a good cruiserweight who isn't good enough or big enough to compete with the best of his era at heavy, which isn't really too shabby but he is and will remain a good step above his domestic rivals and any talk to the contrary is heat of the moment stuff.

one of the greatest cruiserweights of all time..should read..

loses one fight and he's a cruiserweight again....

Ruiz, Valuev and Harrison....

Poor old Haye....

I'd sum him up as an all time great cruiserweight, with the ability to be able to beat some guys much bigger than him, but not so much that he could beat a skilled behemoth in Wladimir. No shame in that...

haye will only get my respect back if he forgets the retirement day and spends a year or two getting back ontop, proving he has the commitment and desire to actually be world champion, i dont wanna see him milk either of the k bros for one last payday before he goes out.

He hasn't become bad, he was never really that good.

What is the basis for ranking Haye the heavyweight as anything other than a fringe contender and paper champion ?

He squeaked by a fellow bottom 10'er in Valuev and scored a laboured victory over an ancient and essentially shot Ruiz.

Barrett and Audley are not worth talking about and Wlad outclassed him.

That's it. That's his heavyweight pedigree.

Obviously he's better than that lump Fury, but Chisora is a perfectly acceptable level of opposition for him now. More interesting that Audley and Barret, that's for sure.

Agree with that Eddy. He's made enough cash now that he doesn't need to go for the biggest money fight to the exclusion of all others. I'd like to see Haye clearing up the 2nd-tier of heavyweights - something I think he is capable of doing. Pretty sure they could build a decent US vs UK promotion for a fight with Arreola. That would be an exciting fight to watch. Adamek would be a real test. If he beats a couple of those guys then he's proved himself a solid HW. It would be a much more credible note to go out on.

The problem is that he'll always run into a brick wall vs the Klitschkos - and they don't look to be going anywhere.

Am loath to call him a great cruiser simkply because the division in the grand scheme of things is still in it's infancy and whilst he established himself at the man at thw weight am hard to pushed to think of too many other guys in the more established divisions considered great on the back of a title win and one defence.

Haye is still a great fighter and head and shoulders above any heavy weight in the UK at the moment. However, the Klitschko's are another league entirely. Haye hasn't done himself any favours with his antics, but he knew this was the risk. It's now up to him whether he wants to live with the Wlad fight as his legacy or prove that he is world class.

was it the manner he lost and drasticly underperformed ? or the fact he has been telling everyone for two years how he would destroy wlad ?

----------

The second question.

Haye was found out to be a limited pot shot merchant. Despite telling everyone how great he is, his record is pretty unimpressive all in all. He's never needed to adapt in fights and against the limited opposition he's faced, pot shotting in and out unleashing the "Hayemaker" has been enough but he honestly though this tactic would work against Wlad and seriously underestimated the task at hand. When his hit and run tactics failed he looked clueless as to what to do.

I watched the fight a couple of times now and despite people saying it was boring and Haye was too passive I actually disagree fully. I thought it was an entertaining fight and believe that Haye was actually brave and took some good shots. The problem with Haye was not his tactics or game plan (or his poor pinky toe ) it was the fact he is a limited boxer who came accross a much better boxer who he seriously underestimated.

rowley wrote:Am loath to call him a great cruiser simkply because the division in the grand scheme of things is still in it's infancy and whilst he established himself at the man at thw weight am hard to pushed to think of too many other guys in the more established divisions considered great on the back of a title win and one defence.

I agree with you 100%. Mormeck, Fragomeni and Maccarinelli are a million miles from greatness. Although I think he was the best cruiser down there, and would agree that even that list of wins above proves as much, its hardly the stuff of greatness or lasting legacy. Especially as there were another two or three cruiserweights there that were better than Maccarinelli at the time. The division was awful so I cant blame Haye for wanting to get out - although one more fight with Cunningham in America would have seemed natural to fully unify the titles and give him some exposure Stateside.

I'd say that the fans are to blame.

We've had enough time to watch Haye and form opinions as to his ability, and he didn't show us anything new ( for better or worse, ) against Wlad, so if we bought his hype it's a reflection on our judgement and not on his ability.

An extremely talented fighter who did not prepare himself properly or adequately in his opponents. All time great in the CW division - but light years behind Holyfield, Qawi et al.

Had he fought more often, focused on fast combinations and a higher workrate - he'd have had more success at heavy. Unfortunately, he may well have bought into the hype surrounding the devastating "hayemaker" right hand.

If he'd beaten Wlad - he'd be retiring as an ATG. The fight was there for him to seize - unfortunately the manner of the loss made him look woefully underprepared. Where are the fighters with a jab on his resume? Where are the fighters with good footwork? A HW run of Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz and Harrison is not rock-of-ages stuff - and puts him, sadly as a contender for the worst HW champion.

Which is a shame - because his boxing ability merits so much more.

I have lambasted him for the retirement plans in the past - but perhaps they are fair. His footwork was woeful against Wladimir - and most of his power shots were landing against Wlad's shoulder. Maybe that's it and his career has run. I find this incredible if true even as I type - its not as though he's been involved in a succession of wars is it?

His most successful punch was a jab to the body. Which did not break Wlad down. Marciano, Frazier - in spite of the size difference, would have tried to outmanoevre Wlad and put him in the corner, before working on the body. Haye did not work the body at all.

Johnson would have tried to slip the jab with the right whilst countering with a straight left jab through the gap, to get inside before landing some hard, heavy shots. Haye did not slip the jab.

What was the plan? To land a hard overhand right - which it seems he knew would be difficult beforehand as he already knew he'd broken his toe.

That's why Haye is seen to have "faded" so badly. Because without the extra depth on his resume and losing to Wlad so convincingly - it looks now as though he was a never-was who hyped himself into a shot. Were there a Dimitrenko, a Solis, a Peter, a Chambers there on his resume - lets face it - these are all guys we think he'd beat [most reasonable people would pick Haye] - there'd be something to fall back on. We'd have evidence to say that although he's not on Wlad's level he offers something at HW. And he'd have been better prepared.

Apologies for the essay - but I mistrust revisionist history - make no bones about it - Hamburg was a serious and severe dent to Haye's legacy.

Perhaps a little harsh there,Windy. I willed him on because I like the thought of a British HW champ ,firstly. Haye blagged it to such an extent that it was forgiveable to get caught up in the hype.Then you get Sky doing their usual schtick about how great the fight will be, they even convinced a few people who shoulda known better in believing that Haye/Audley would be competitive!
Although I felt pretty sickened by both affairs, I don't blame Haye, the hype machine,which appeals so well to the "football" boxing fans,spoils boxing ,for me anyway. After 25 years of following the sport, however, and watching mismatch after mismatch, I can totally understand why people have left the sport in droves.

Haye gets a lot of stick for winning his HW world title off 'one of the worst champs of all time'. Whilst I'm not going to try and oppose that comment necessarily [though he did have 50w and only 1 close (MD) loss] can I ask the more knowledgable folk on here why neither K-Bros ever thought him?

He had the belt Haye had when he lined them both up. He had more title defences, and a recent CV including Holy, Ruiz (x2) and Barrett which is certainly now worse than Haye had coming into the K-bros fight.

So if Valuev is that bad, and contributes to Haye's CV being that stinky, why didn't the K-bros unify the division (as they've always said is all they wanted to do) years earlier by going there and taking him out?

Is it because he removed their main advantages of heigh reach and physicality? There is plenty of cynicism around many match-ups that never happened but this one seems to float under the radar a bit.

I think Haye gets a bad rap on the Valuev thing. Now personally am not going to re-invent Nik as something he wasn't he was and remains one of the more ordinary champions in the division's history. However you have to see the fight for what it was. Negotations with the brothers were proving difficult as they tend to do and so by beating him Haye got himself a decent bargaining chip to bring to the table. Great from a business point of view less so from a legacy perspective.

oxring wrote:An extremely talented fighter who did not prepare himself properly or adequately in his opponents. All time great in the CW division - but light years behind Holyfield, Qawi et al.

Had he fought more often, focused on fast combinations and a higher workrate - he'd have had more success at heavy. Unfortunately, he may well have bought into the hype surrounding the devastating "hayemaker" right hand.

If he'd beaten Wlad - he'd be retiring as an ATG. The fight was there for him to seize - unfortunately the manner of the loss made him look woefully underprepared. Where are the fighters with a jab on his resume? Where are the fighters with good footwork? A HW run of Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz and Harrison is not rock-of-ages stuff - and puts him, sadly as a contender for the worst HW champion.

Which is a shame - because his boxing ability merits so much more.

I have lambasted him for the retirement plans in the past - but perhaps they are fair. His footwork was woeful against Wladimir - and most of his power shots were landing against Wlad's shoulder. Maybe that's it and his career has run. I find this incredible if true even as I type - its not as though he's been involved in a succession of wars is it?

His most successful punch was a jab to the body. Which did not break Wlad down. Marciano, Frazier - in spite of the size difference, would have tried to outmanoevre Wlad and put him in the corner, before working on the body. Haye did not work the body at all.

Johnson would have tried to slip the jab with the right whilst countering with a straight left jab through the gap, to get inside before landing some hard, heavy shots. Haye did not slip the jab.

What was the plan? To land a hard overhand right - which it seems he knew would be difficult beforehand as he already knew he'd broken his toe.

That's why Haye is seen to have "faded" so badly. Because without the extra depth on his resume and losing to Wlad so convincingly - it looks now as though he was a never-was who hyped himself into a shot. Were there a Dimitrenko, a Solis, a Peter, a Chambers there on his resume - lets face it - these are all guys we think he'd beat [most reasonable people would pick Haye] - there'd be something to fall back on. We'd have evidence to say that although he's not on Wlad's level he offers something at HW. And he'd have been better prepared.

Apologies for the essay - but I mistrust revisionist history - make no bones about it - Hamburg was a serious and severe dent to Haye's legacy.

Some excellent points here. However I don’t think he would have gone down as an ATG is he had beaten Wlad, nor do I think he reputation and record should be getting the kicking it is after a defeat. It s fine line but not that fine.

Haye has the tools to be a class HW. The size or lack of is irrelevant if he uses his speed and power that he obviously has correctly. At CW he could get away with pot shotting and had the 1 punch KO power. AT HW it is sustained pressure that will take the big guys out. Im sure he can do this if the tactics are right.

A good things to come out of the Wlad fight was that Haye’s chin was tested on more than one occasion and he passed. With this in mind I think he can afford to be far more aggressive in fights at HW including against the Klits. He should back himself to get the job done over 6 with sustained pressure, use his boxing ability to get close and unload. Not 1 or 2 shots but combinations and be confident that if he gets clipped he can take it.

He got he tactic badly wrong in Hamburg and as a result his reputation is at rock bottom but hope he has the desire to come back because I think he could still have a great career ahead of him. He’s only 30 and has had less than 30 fights FFS.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Haye gets a lot of stick for winning his HW world title off 'one of the worst champs of all time'. Whilst I'm not going to try and oppose that comment necessarily [though he did have 50w and only 1 close (MD) loss] can I ask the more knowledgable folk on here why neither K-Bros ever thought him?

.

I actually think in beating Valuev Haye did a good thing for boxing but failed to see his "saviour of heavyweight boxing" argument when it came to him dethroning Wlad because he would be doing no-one any favours by taking the titles then riding into the sunset and into retirement.

I think there is a vaild argument to be made in saying that the Ks avoided Valuev because they wouldn't have their usual size advantages but you could also use the fact that by not being shouty, call em out, slag em off merchants like David Haye the K bros are not that good at making the big fights happen. In fact if David Haye had chosen to hold onto his title a few years fighting mandatories and keeping quiet for a while then the Ks and Haye would be coexisting peacfully with their titles right now.

I do remember the K bros making attempts at getting Valuev in the ring, but because Valuev is/was a Sauerland fighter his ambitions at unifying would be stinted anyways and Valuev was used as a money making circus attraction who's promoters knew had no chance against either K brother. The fact they took the Haye fight probably meant they were confident of beating him, glad though that Haye won that fight. Any belt being taken out of the hands of a Sauerland fighter is always a good thing.

Not sure he is coming back owl. He always came across to me as just in it for the money (not a criticism; fair enough.) if that is the case, why would he kick around fighting contenders for relatively little money for the next couple of years? Hes got all the money hes going to need.

If he can goad Vitali into a fight then I think he will definitely do it. Otherwise its a fairly difficult road back to the top; Solis, Adamek, Helenius, Povetkin etc wont be gimmes.

Also worth remembering there was a time Valuev was something like 46-0 , there was a genuine desire to nurse him to Marciano's record until Chaguev put a hole in them plans, as Don King was involved with him at the time would guess there was no burning desire on his part to put him in with either brother.

joeyjojo618 wrote:Not sure he is coming back owl. He always came across to me as just in it for the money (not a criticism; fair enough.) if that is the case, why would he kick around fighting contenders for relatively little money for the next couple of years? Hes got all the money hes going to need.

If he can goad Vitali into a fight then I think he will definitely do it. Otherwise its a fairly difficult road back to the top; Solis, Adamek, Helenius, Povetkin etc wont be gimmes.

Those fights would be quite tasty and that is his route back – a couple of impressive wins against those guys and all of a sudden people are saying he’s in with a shout again.

I take your point though he could just have been after the money (the more I think about it the more I agree with you). He certainly fought against Wlad like that.

Just think its such a shame if so.

Could Haye v winner of Fury / Chisora be pay per view in this country? Winner takes on Vitali? I see that as a more realistic route back for Haye than fighting obscure Europeans who the British public wouldn't know for toffee.

Wlad seems to want Chisora/Fury winner. Whether Chisora would agree a third time I don't know.

Scottrf wrote:Wlad seems to want Chisora/Fury winner.

Exactly. I think we've seen Hayemaker scupper Wlad's plans before and in this scenario the winner of Fury / Chisora would earn more from a Battle of Britain than an average pay purse and iffy contract with the Klitshcko's. I can see Haye continuing to rile the K's.......

Michaels, Sean wrote:Could Haye v winner of Fury / Chisora be pay per view in this country? Winner takes on Vitali? I see that as a more realistic route back for Haye than fighting obscure Europeans who the British public wouldn't know for toffee.

I still think he's needs that fight (proving he's the best of British) but also, and perhaps more importantly, Chambers and Arreola over in the States. If he smashes them up he'll have won a few people over and fans back and will have a strong contention for a title belt again. Anything less and I don't think he's earnt the shot and the K-bros will just point and laugh from a distance have buckled to his smack talk once before and shown him who's boss.

Don't blame the Klits for Valuev not happening - they approached Sauerland and King several times - the answer was always a firm no.

Valuev would lose to any HW with decent movement and footwork - hence why he lost (won) against Holyfield. Valuev was King's last shot at producing a HWchamp he could hype and cream some retirement money off - and if Valuev hadn't been a pituitary tumour on legs - he might have done it. But the coordination, the balance - it was never really there.

A decent middle with movement could probably beat Valuev - slip that jab, flurry move off and repeat.

RJJ could have done it - that would have been great fun.

You think people in Britain will be prepared to tolerate another Haye farce? The last all British HW fight was an epic shambles, and his next fight a massive disappointment. Surely the casual fans will take one look at Chisoras record (is it 14 fights?) and not bother.

Agree with knocking a few guys over in the states, might help rebuild his fanbase.

David Haye fought a journeyman type of fight against Wlad. Certainly never even attempted to take the centre of the ring at any point in the contest, and in my opinion, was beaten mentally during the first round when he was manhandled early.

The joke to me is that Haye has never ever fought the kind of fight that people where expecting and predicting Haye to employ and knock Wlad out. I couldn't understand why people (including so-called boxing experts) were predicting a Haye knock out win, with Haye fighting a Tyson’esque style, bobbing and weaving, backing Wlad up. David Haye has never been able to put together combinations, even as an amateur. He had/has speed of hand, especially the straight right, but only as a single shot. It should have been obvious that Haye was going to fight on the outside, as he has always fought like this, and I suspect a lot of the public's imagination was captured by Hayes talk of decapitation and big muscles rather than any of his previous performances.

This is the same David Haye who seemed terrified of Ismail Abdoul and stunk the Altrincham leisure centre out with his negative tactics, refusing to let his hands go.

The same David Haye who was miles behind in France against Mormeck before Mormeck done what he always seems to do, he tires drastically after 6 rounds or so. The same Mormeck who was stopped by O'Neil Bell and robbed him hugely of victory in the rematch. Twice Bell had completely dominated the second half of the fight and was the victim of horrific 'home tactics' in the rematch such as short rounds, dubious refereeing and even more dubious scoring. The same Mormeck who was beaten by Holyfield victim Fres Oquendo.

This is the same David Haye who was wobbled but Monte Barrett and had to take a knee, who in his next fight was blown away in 2 by Solis.

The same David Haye who hardly threw a punch against Valuev, and didn't do anywhere near as comprehensive a job as a 47 year old Evander Holyfield. How that fight was scored in Haye’s favour is beyond me, I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

The same David Haye who didn't throw a punch in the first two and a half rounds against Audrey Harrison!

Adem Booth has made David's punch out-put even worse since he moved up from cruiserweight with his insistence of heavy weight training, which may make him look great on the beach, but not very effective in the ring.

In fact one of the only times I have seen Haye commanding the center of the ring and letting his hands go against anyone even slightly better than domestic level, he was exhausted and stopped (against a 45 year old Thompson).

Haye for me is one of the most overrated fighters of the last few generations, and I for one would have picked a peak Frank Bruno to have stopped him. He talked his way into the fight and lied to the public, and now is trying to con everyone again by getting a rematch. Why? If Haye fights any differently he gets knocked out, if he deploys his usual tactics it will be a repeat of the Igbragimov Wlad again.

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

He supports Tottenham go easy on him

Greatest Cruiserwight ever? You must be joking! Dwight Muhammad Qawi would have smashed him, Holyfield would have out classed him, and Carlos De Leon would have beaten him. Im tempted to even say Haye would have had nightmares with a peak O'Neil Bell, a motivated Johnny Nelson or even a peak Carl Thompson against the Haye that beat Mormeck.

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

Did you watch the fight, or just the replay of the punch in the 12th

The fight where Valuev didn't land on him.

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Greatest Cruiserwight ever? You must be joking! Dwight Muhammad Qawi would have smashed him, Holyfield would have out classed him, and Carlos De Leon would have beaten him. Im tempted to even say Haye would have had nightmares with a peak O'Neil Bell, a motivated Johnny Nelson or even a peak Carl Thompson against the Haye that beat Mormeck.

One of the greatest cruiserweights of all time...You are hugely disrespectful

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

Did you watch the fight, or just the replay of the punch in the 12th

Your in the minority if you think Valuev won...You most probably think Mayweather vs Mosley was a robbery!

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

Did you watch the fight, or just the replay of the punch in the 12th

Your in the minority if you think Valuev won...You most probably think Mayweather vs Mosley was a robbery!

Not really, everyone on HBO gave the fight to Valuev, most journos outside the UK gave it to Valuev, Jim Watt of Sky. Basically anyone not English!

What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Greatest Cruiserwight ever? You must be joking! Dwight Muhammad Qawi would have smashed him, Holyfield would have out classed him, and Carlos De Leon would have beaten him. Im tempted to even say Haye would have had nightmares with a peak O'Neil Bell, a motivated Johnny Nelson or even a peak Carl Thompson against the Haye that beat Mormeck.

One of the greatest cruiserweights of all time...You are hugely disrespectful

No chance. Ezra Sellers and Guillermo Jones would have also beaten him imo.

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Not really, everyone on HBO gave the fight to Valuev,

How do you know? They didn't show it.

Yes, but I dont see your point. That Holyfield did a better job but was robbed? Thats not what is being discussed, I saw almost no aggression from Valuev, and literally nothing significant landing.

Haye outworked Valuev, although both threw very little.

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Not really, everyone on HBO gave the fight to Valuev,

How do you know? They didn't show it.

They done a follow up programme 3 days after the fight. In fact I think I remember reading 13 out of 15 us journo's ringside scored for Valuev.

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.