The Mayweather vs Pacquiao Debate

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

It is an issue that polarises the sport, and get the most headlines. It is because the are opposites in the the ring and out.

Inside the ring Mayweather is a defensive fighter, safety first, whilst Manny is an attacking fighting that brings the excitement. Outside the ring Manny is well liked, humble happy and at peace, whilst Mayweather seems angry brash, arrogant, mentally troubled and problems with the law.

It is no surprise since they seem to be polar opposites that they split opinion.

In this thread I would like to discuss how there careers match up and who would win should they eventually face each other in the ring.

by Lumbering_Jack Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:30 pm

Wheras the version Manny is fighting has not won in 2 years, including a draw with the hugely limited Mora.

Maybe Manny can fight Mora next.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:31 pm

You are right pal...I mean Cotto, Forrest and Mayweather all struggled with the guy.....Maybe he can find his best form again like against Oscar about ten years ago

by azania Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:31 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
imperialghosty wrote:What weight issue? The fight between the two doesn't enter into my thinking when considering Pacquiao vs Mayweather

Marquez is a counter puncher who gave Pacquiao all kinds of problems

Mayweather is a counter puncher who is quicker, more powerful, better defensively and an all round better fighter..

Marquez paid for all those counter punches, Mayweather will pay also. Marquez was willing to trade to land his punches also, is Mayweather?

Pacquiao has improved a lot since then, Pacquiao is also bigger and stronger.

When Mayweather fought Marquez he just fought and older and fatter and slower version that faced Pacquiao.

Marquez doesn't do well against counter punchers.

So I'm sure you will agree that when Pac fights SSM he will be fighting an older and more shop-worn version of the man Floyd destroyed.

Obviously Shane is older, but he would not have been out of the ring for 17 months when he fights Pacquiao, so he will not be ring rusty.

Shane does well against a fighters with an attacking style and Pacquiao will be smaller man when he fights Mosley.

Good point. But when did he last win a fight? Your last sentence should read: Shane does (did) well against a fighters with an attacking style and Pacquiao will be smaller man when he fights Mosley.

Do you think an older SSM is better than the version who drew with Mora and got schooled by Floyd? Your argument also has flaws in that SSM did not show any rust for the first two rounds until Floyd took over.

Furthermore, any ideas why Pac ran like a tom Boobie when SSM first called him out?

And you will note that Mora and Mayweather are not attacking fighters. Winky schooled Mosley too, and that was a prime Shane. Mosley also won the first two round against Mayweather.

Mosley is a very tough and dangerous opponent for Manny and will have to watch himself for the first few rounds.

Thanks for not answering my questions. A recurring habit it seems. I'll ask again. When did SSM last win a fight?

Yes Winky schooled a prime SSM. Perhaps its because Winky is a better boxer than SSM. Ditto Forrest (Vernon and not Gump). Yes SSM is a very dangerous opponent for Pac. Not dangerous for Floyd given the schooling he got.

by D4thincarnation Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:32 pm

Mora was a middleweight, a defensive fighter with good movement and Mosley done enough to win that fight.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:33 pm

Holyfield won the WBF crown a year ago as well.....

by azania Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:36 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:Mora was a middleweight, a defensive fighter with good movement and Mosley done enough to win that fight.

When did SSM last win a fight?

by D4thincarnation Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:37 pm

azania

I should have to answer question you already know the answer to.

Marg was his last win but I felt he done enough against Mora.

And he was dangerous for Floyd, or did you missed the second round. Floyd also played it safe because he feared Mosley's power.

Manny will not play it safe and will look to take Mosley out, something that has never been done before.

by azania Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:42 pm

D4thincarnation wrote: azania

I should have to answer question you already know the answer to.

Marg was his last win but I felt he done enough against Mora.

And he was dangerous for Floyd, or did you missed the second round. Floyd also played it safe because he feared Mosley's power.

Manny will not play it safe and will look to take Mosley out, something that has never been done before.

So someone who has not won a fight in near on 3 years is suddenly a dangerous proposition. Foreman would also be a danger for Wlad using your argument. He's a huge puncher with a strong chin fighting a chinny champ. That he hasn't won a fight in years is an irrelevance.

by D4thincarnation Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:47 pm

Oscar De La Hoya never won a fight for about that time and then went of to KO Mayorga.

Ali had even longer out.

And Vitali came back after 4 years and won the WBC Heavyweight championship.

But unlike these fighters Mosley has been active and has shaken of that 17 months of ring rust and hasn't had a 5 month training camp.

by BALTIMORA Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:56 pm

Mosley is good for three rounds, four max. I know that, the world knows that, and again I find myself even agreeing with Truss on this one. Mosley is a poor choice of opponent for Pacquiao, selected only because he no longer seems to be a threat.

by D4thincarnation Tue 15 Mar 2011, 9:58 pm

So 6 months before Pacquiao makes moves to fight Mosley, people are saying Pacquiao ducked Mosley and should fight him.

Pacquiao makes that his next fight and now those same people are saying he shouldn't fight Mosley.

Fickle

by BALTIMORA Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:05 pm

That's such rubbish.

by Lumbering_Jack Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:09 pm

Manny had the chance to Fight Mosely when he was number 1 at the weight.

He declined and weight drained Cotto to 145. A shot Cotto I might add who struggled with Cab Driver Clottey. and then took on the Cab Driver himself.

Seeing the mess Floyd made of Mosely, Manny was then happy he was shot enough to fight.

by azania Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:10 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:So 6 months before Pacquiao makes moves to fight Mosley, people are saying Pacquiao ducked Mosley and should fight him.

Pacquiao makes that his next fight and now those same people are saying he shouldn't fight Mosley.

Fickle

For heaven#s sake. SSM called him out 2 years ago. Pac ran behind Roach (apt name).

by Lumbering_Jack Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:12 pm

Mosely actually agreed to drain himself to fight Manny but was still refused to opportunity.

"Shane isn't Oscar" were the words that came from Roach.

by BALTIMORA Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:14 pm

See, this is the thing. Due respect to the mods and I admit my patience is gone, but when someone will happily twist facts and change their opinion to suit the moment, discussing anything with that person becomes a monumental challenge.

by AberdeenSteve Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:14 pm

So much anger on a thread. Lighten up lads!

by azania Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:15 pm

AberdeenSteve wrote:So much anger on a thread. Lighten up lads!

I'm cool I tell ya. furious

by D4thincarnation Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:19 pm

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:So 6 months before Pacquiao makes moves to fight Mosley, people are saying Pacquiao ducked Mosley and should fight him.

Pacquiao makes that his next fight and now those same people are saying he shouldn't fight Mosley.

Fickle

For heaven#s sake. SSM called him out 2 years ago. Pac ran behind Roach (apt name).

No, before the Hatton fight, Mosley goes down to the wild card and ask Roach for a shot at Pacquiao. Mosley is welter and Pacquiao is fighting at light welter and as a fight with Hatton lined up. Roach says yeah come dow to 143lb and we can do bussiness and Mosley does not want to know.

Why should Pacquiao who was a super feather a year earlier sign a fight to fight the welter champion of the world when he already has a fight lined up with Hatton at light-welter.

Mosley was lucky Roach offer him that.

Mosley put in a real offer to fight Mayweather but Floyd turn it down to fight Marquez.

by BALTIMORA Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:23 pm

...after he'd fought Oscar at welterweight. Hypocrisy.

by azania Tue 15 Mar 2011, 10:25 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:So 6 months before Pacquiao makes moves to fight Mosley, people are saying Pacquiao ducked Mosley and should fight him.

Pacquiao makes that his next fight and now those same people are saying he shouldn't fight Mosley.

Fickle

For heaven#s sake. SSM called him out 2 years ago. Pac ran behind Roach (apt name).

No, before the Hatton fight, Mosley goes down to the wild card and ask Roach for a shot at Pacquiao. Mosley is welter and Pacquiao is fighting at light welter and as a fight with Hatton lined up. Roach says yeah come dow to 143lb and we can do bussiness and Mosley does not want to know.

Why should Pacquiao who was a super feather a year earlier sign a fight to fight the welter champion of the world when he already has a fight lined up with Hatton at light-welter.

Mosley was lucky Roach offer him that.

Mosley put in a real offer to fight Mayweather but Floyd turn it down to fight Marquez.

D4, there's debate and there's downright lies. You are doing one but not the other. Every word written above is totally wrong and inaccurate. I hope its an oversight and not a lie because as said it is just plain wrong and totally dishinest of you to debate with false intent.

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:16 pm

Mayweather had an 18 day cut in blood test against Mosley

http://www.usada.org/mayweather-mosley/

Thank to Scottrf for the find.

So does the excuse that Pacquiao would not accept the test fall apart now.

by Scottrf Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:17 pm

Not strictly true. It wasn't an 18 day cut off. There was no cut off but that's when he was last tested for blood.

by azania Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:21 pm

Are we having the same debate on two threads?

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:23 pm

When WADA do testing "Olympic style testing" they test around the competition. Out of competition is meant to be random, but this only works when the have a list of the athletes on the testing program they they get tested at random.

In competition they test at regular interval.

What Mayweather had was a hatchet job of anti-doping not one thing or the other.

And who's decision was it to stop testing after 18 days?

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:24 pm

I love it when people try to be clever and get shot down straight away

That article clearly states that there were no black out periods or cut off points

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:24 pm

azania wrote:Are we having the same debate on two threads?

This debate should be had here, the other thread was about the current p4p lists.

by azania Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:30 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:When WADA do testing "Olympic style testing" they test around the competition. Out of competition is meant to be random, but this only works when the have a list of the athletes on the testing program they they get tested at random.

In competition they test at regular interval.

What Mayweather had was a hatchet job of anti-doping not one thing or the other.

And who's decision was it to stop testing after 18 days?

You are aware that what you have written is conjecture and total and utter BS. SSM andFloyd succummed to RANDOM testing. It doesn't matter if it was olympic style, raggamuffin style, dancehall style or whatever stylie you can come up with. It was RANDOM. No cut off points. It proved no-one was juicing.

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:35 pm

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:When WADA do testing "Olympic style testing" they test around the competition. Out of competition is meant to be random, but this only works when the have a list of the athletes on the testing program they they get tested at random.

In competition they test at regular interval.

What Mayweather had was a hatchet job of anti-doping not one thing or the other.

And who's decision was it to stop testing after 18 days?

You are aware that what you have written is conjecture and total and utter BS. SSM andFloyd succummed to RANDOM testing. It doesn't matter if it was olympic style, raggamuffin style, dancehall style or whatever stylie you can come up with. It was RANDOM. No cut off points. It proved no-one was juicing.

Collections were conducted using a balanced test distribution schedule, and with no allowances for black-out or cut-off dates.

I don't believe that is random.

http://www.usada.org/mayweather-mosley/

USADA don't even call it random they call it a " balanced test distribution schedule"

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:37 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE_JFWSdO2g

This is Olympic standard testing.

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:37 pm

It's fun watching you try and wriggle out of things

by azania Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:39 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:When WADA do testing "Olympic style testing" they test around the competition. Out of competition is meant to be random, but this only works when the have a list of the athletes on the testing program they they get tested at random.

In competition they test at regular interval.

What Mayweather had was a hatchet job of anti-doping not one thing or the other.

And who's decision was it to stop testing after 18 days?

You are aware that what you have written is conjecture and total and utter BS. SSM andFloyd succummed to RANDOM testing. It doesn't matter if it was olympic style, raggamuffin style, dancehall style or whatever stylie you can come up with. It was RANDOM. No cut off points. It proved no-one was juicing.

Collections were conducted using a balanced test distribution schedule, and with no allowances for black-out or cut-off dates.

I don't believe that is random.

http://www.usada.org/mayweather-mosley/

USADA don't even call it random they call it a " balanced test distribution schedule"

You should be a LibDem MP trying to explain away Uni fees. They did a better job that you're doing here.

I'll ask again. Was the testing process randon or not?

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:40 pm

In 24/7 Mayweather clearly didn't go the the doping control station when a DCO came to see him, he went home and then gave the sample there.

Lucky Mayweather and USADA CEO are good friends.

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:40 pm

Complete conjecture again, been proved wrong yet again and try to take the heat of the point in question

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:41 pm

azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:When WADA do testing "Olympic style testing" they test around the competition. Out of competition is meant to be random, but this only works when the have a list of the athletes on the testing program they they get tested at random.

In competition they test at regular interval.

What Mayweather had was a hatchet job of anti-doping not one thing or the other.

And who's decision was it to stop testing after 18 days?

You are aware that what you have written is conjecture and total and utter BS. SSM andFloyd succummed to RANDOM testing. It doesn't matter if it was olympic style, raggamuffin style, dancehall style or whatever stylie you can come up with. It was RANDOM. No cut off points. It proved no-one was juicing.

Collections were conducted using a balanced test distribution schedule, and with no allowances for black-out or cut-off dates.

I don't believe that is random.

http://www.usada.org/mayweather-mosley/

USADA don't even call it random they call it a " balanced test distribution schedule"

You should be a LibDem MP trying to explain away Uni fees. They did a better job that you're doing here.

I'll ask again. Was the testing process randon or not?

It was not the test were done by a balanced test distribution schedule.

by **ADMIN** Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:42 pm

Sorry for wading in here guys

Both Mayweather and Mosley were tested a total of eight times by USADA between March 22, and May 1, 2010, with seven of the sample collections occuring with no advance notice leading up to the fight, and the eighth occuring immediately following the fight. All eight of each athlete's USADA sample collections included urine, and four of these collections for each figher also included blood testing. Samples were collected up through April 26 for urine testing and through April 13 for blood testing, as well as for both urine and blood testing immediately upon conclusion of the figh on May 1. Collections were conducted using a balanced test distribution schedule, and with no allowances for black-out or cut-off dates.

Now to me although there is a set period that the tests had to be done between it clearly states that there was no advance warning that the tests would be done.
In anyone's definition that is random.

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:44 pm

imperialghosty wrote:Complete conjecture again, been proved wrong yet again and try to take the heat of the point in question

Fact you see it on 24/7 the DCO comes for Mayweather at the gym and Floyd can't pass a sample, he is left alone, drives home and after about 4-5 hours he finally gives a sample.

WADA would not be happy.

by azania Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:45 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:When WADA do testing "Olympic style testing" they test around the competition. Out of competition is meant to be random, but this only works when the have a list of the athletes on the testing program they they get tested at random.

In competition they test at regular interval.

What Mayweather had was a hatchet job of anti-doping not one thing or the other.

And who's decision was it to stop testing after 18 days?

You are aware that what you have written is conjecture and total and utter BS. SSM andFloyd succummed to RANDOM testing. It doesn't matter if it was olympic style, raggamuffin style, dancehall style or whatever stylie you can come up with. It was RANDOM. No cut off points. It proved no-one was juicing.

Collections were conducted using a balanced test distribution schedule, and with no allowances for black-out or cut-off dates.

I don't believe that is random.

http://www.usada.org/mayweather-mosley/

USADA don't even call it random they call it a " balanced test distribution schedule"

You should be a LibDem MP trying to explain away Uni fees. They did a better job that you're doing here.

I'll ask again. Was the testing process randon or not?

It was not the test were done by a balanced test distribution schedule.

Collections were conducted using a balanced test distribution schedule, and with no allowances for black-out or cut-off dates.

by azania Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:46 pm

I'll ask again. Was it randon with no cut off dates?

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:48 pm

There was a USADA test representative with him the whole time D4, your clutching at straws yet again

Azania, would it be an acceptable time to now ask D4 to admit he was wrong?

by azania Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:50 pm

imperialghosty wrote:There was a USADA test representative with him the whole time D4, your clutching at straws yet again

Azania, would it be an acceptable time to now ask D4 to admit he was wrong?

What do you think the response would be?

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:51 pm

http://www.usada.org/resources/faqs.aspx

Q: What type of tests does USADA conduct?
A: USADA conducts in-competition (IC) and out-of-competition (OOC) tests. OOC testing is testing of individual athletes in an out-of-competition setting with little or no advance notice of the test. In-Competition testing is generally testing conducted following an event.

Q: How are athletes selected for OOC Testing?
A: USADA selects athletes to test in an out-of-competition setting based on an automated draw that considers a number of factors, including athlete ranking, risk of doping within each sport and test history. All athletes from all sports under USADA’s jurisdiction are subject to OOC testing and USADA has the right to test any athlete for any reason. All NGBs are required to provide a list of athletes for inclusion in the USADA Registered Testing Pool at least quarterly. With respect to each athlete on the list and any additional athletes designated by USADA for inclusion in the USADA Registered Testing Pool, each athlete receives an OOC packet from USADA which includes a USADA Guide to Prohibited Substances and Prohibited Methods in Doping, wallet card, pertinent forms and educational materials. After initial entry into the USADA RTP, it is the responsibility of each individual athlete to provide USADA with current and updated information specifying his/her whereabouts. On a quarterly basis, USADA posts the names of the U.S. athletes who have been tested by USADA at www.usada.org.

Random is a pool of athletes and they get randomly drawn to be tested.

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:52 pm

No response but a retort mentioning Mayweather doing something completely irrelevant to the point in question

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:54 pm

They were randomly tested, they had no prior knowledge of when the tests were happening or do you think something else?

by azania Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:55 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:http://www.usada.org/resources/faqs.aspx

Q: What type of tests does USADA conduct?
A: USADA conducts in-competition (IC) and out-of-competition (OOC) tests. OOC testing is testing of individual athletes in an out-of-competition setting with little or no advance notice of the test. In-Competition testing is generally testing conducted following an event.

Q: How are athletes selected for OOC Testing?
A: USADA selects athletes to test in an out-of-competition setting based on an automated draw that considers a number of factors, including athlete ranking, risk of doping within each sport and test history. All athletes from all sports under USADA’s jurisdiction are subject to OOC testing and USADA has the right to test any athlete for any reason. All NGBs are required to provide a list of athletes for inclusion in the USADA Registered Testing Pool at least quarterly. With respect to each athlete on the list and any additional athletes designated by USADA for inclusion in the USADA Registered Testing Pool, each athlete receives an OOC packet from USADA which includes a USADA Guide to Prohibited Substances and Prohibited Methods in Doping, wallet card, pertinent forms and educational materials. After initial entry into the USADA RTP, it is the responsibility of each individual athlete to provide USADA with current and updated information specifying his/her whereabouts. On a quarterly basis, USADA posts the names of the U.S. athletes who have been tested by USADA at www.usada.org.

Random is a pool of athletes and they get randomly drawn to be tested.

D4, that is the worst anwer you can give. That is one aspect of randon testing. Just one. When you have 2 competitors, random testing by definition cannot involve a pool of athletes. That is pure BS from you again. Random in this aspect means testing at any time before the event with no cut off points. I have better and more hnests debates with my 9 year old daughter. You sound like some Israeli politician with their interpritation of UN242. Wink

by BALTIMORA Wed 16 Mar 2011, 9:57 pm

This is ridiculous. This is exactly the same sort of rubbish he was spouting on 606mk1, and he's continuing here. He's been told by several people what random actually means, yet is choosing to ignore all comers, including now the Admin. What a doggy lipstick.

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Mar 2011, 10:04 pm

What was this balance schedule of testing?

Is it used in any other sport?

Who devised the testing for the Mayweather vs Mosley clash.

Why was the decision taken to only blood test 18 days before the fight?

WADA operate targeted testing in-competition, USADA clearly didn't do this

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 16 Mar 2011, 10:08 pm

Anything to back up what your saying?

Your talking absolute rubbish as per usual, the fact you know so little about the subject makes it even funnier

by Lumbering_Jack Wed 16 Mar 2011, 10:12 pm

Youre funny D4.

"Loaded gloves are better for boxing.
Manny is more acurate than Floyd.
Mosely vs Floyd was not random and Floyd was best pals with the tester.
Manny is better than Armstrong."

Comedy gold at its very best...

by coxy0001 Wed 16 Mar 2011, 10:16 pm

D4

How many times do i have to say - USADA are responsible for implementing the WADA code in the USA for the sports that sign up to it.

I've proven this to you before, i've showed you links before and yet you continue to spout utter nonsense.

I'm sorry, but the moderators really need to do something about you. You're dragging this forum down with you, is it not any wonder to you that every single poster, save for a couple, is having more than a few gos at you every single day?! Surely that would tell you something?

But back to my point - i've already made you look silly on the subject once. No doubt you'll ignore this post, because i can quite happily go away and find the link that says that the USADA operate under the WADA code.

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