Ireland- Player ratings/Analysis/Thougthts

Hi all,

Happy Sunday.
Watched the game back again and have been reading all the stuff on some of the other threads. And thought I'd give my 2c and all that jazz.

I want to say that I was really impressed with the team. Considering how many players we were missing I think it was a great effort, in a way I think we deserved to win, but well done to Scotland who had more ball.

Court: 6.5
Played quite well, scrum held up better than I expected it too. He was in there for a few turn overs and I saw him holding a lot of Scots in the tackle. He didn't do much carrying but whenever he was involved in a turnover he shifted the ball well and cleverly.
Cronin: 4
I think this was a huge chance which he blew. He fell off a few tackles, he got stripped of the ball a few times. Didn't carry well or run those great support lines he can run. Lineout was ok, as was scrum. But was disappointed with him.
Buckley: 5.5
Didn't carry that much or effectively. Didn't show the slick offloading that he can showcase. Was good in the wrap up tackles due to his strength and could see he was a good lifter in the lineout too.
Cullen: 6.5
Varied the lineout calls really well IMO. Did a lot of donkey work and defended well too. Hardly touched the ball in attack but that is testement to how much he was doing in the trenches.
Ryan: 6
Good in the trenches with Cullen. Hardly ran the ball either though, would have liked to have seen more of him here. Felt he was solid and did what he did well but was hoping for more.
McCarthy:6
Did well enough. Bought in to the defensive structure well and it suited him. Carried more than other forwards. Really enjoyed watching him play. Good hands on turnovers too. Good in the air when called upon too. Showed his versatility too.
Ronan: 4.5
Showed good hands at times but passed before contact too often. Didn't link like a natural 7. Was anonymous for most of the game. Wasn't that evident in defence either. Awful kick on turnover.
Leamy: 7
Great showing in defence managing to lift attackers off the ground and hold them there. Should have taken on more carrying himself. Discipline was good. Did quite well in the rucks also. Did well off a few messy scrums also.
O'Leary: 4.5
His passing was still a bit laboured at times and took a while getting the ball out of the rucks on occassions. His defence wasn't as good as it should have been either, big missed tackles on Lamont and Beattie. Some very good box kicks some not so good ones. Passing from offloads was surprisingly poor.
Sexton: 6.5
Didn't have much ball what he did have he used well. He distributed well and made good decisions. 2 poor kicks to touch however. Great defence and led the defensive line well. Made one or two nice breaks to offload to support runners. Kicked from floor well too
Fitzgerald: 7
Looked like a livewire with ball in hand. Showed good feet and hands at times. Did kick the ball too often though without a doubt, some were very clever some not so much. Good defence and good rucking too to disrupt and win Scottish ball.
Wallace: 6.5
Held against Morrision well. Didn't let him break the line and stopped offloads too. Used his feet well off scrums and lineouts but rarely made breaks except off a Sexton offload. Great hands to release the wings on a number of occasions. Kicked well too (at times)
McFadden: 5
Disappointed in him. Made a lot of tackles and did well in defence but shot out of the line twice and was punished with a linebreak and a try. Didn't really offer anything in attack, didn't have much ball but should have offered more. Knocked on too many times.
Trimble: 6.5
Made a few good breaks and found O'Leary and Fitzgerald with good offloads. Think he could have been more physical in defence after his first 10mins. Good in the air from kicks. Ran well and hard too but didn't get enough ball and maybe should have come off his wing looking for more.
Kearney: 8
Not one of his biggest fans but was very impressive. Chased kicks excellently. Joined the line well. Showed good hands and feet in drawing players and passing. Should have scored a try on his return. Claimed high balls well. Defended well too. Very good performance.

Subs:
Boss upped the tempo when he came on and got forwards running onto the ball rather than taking it static. McLaughlin was exceptionally physical when he came on too and really showcased what he can bring to the team. Horan, Hayes, Fla and MOD didn't really add much.

Notes:
Defence was excellent that strategy worked so well. The Scottish rarely got quick ball and we caused a lot of turnovers. On these turnovers we generally did quite well getting it to wingers or other backs who pushed the ball behind the Scots or made ground up the flanks. We didn't go through enough phases however.
The pack and TOL in conjuction didn't win enough quick ball and we rarely were going forwards. There weren't enough players in the pack who were able to put the head down and make serious yards and get the ball back quickly. Sexton tried a lot to get guys outside him working and to some success and managed to get the back 3 into some space. We could have done with McFadden crashing it up more effectively and Wallace making a few more yards with his feet.
Out lineout wasn't that bad either, we competed on their throw and won some of their ball at times. On our throw we did ok, but what few set plays we used off off the top ball were quite ineffectual. Scrums were ok but no more. Two early engagements in a row were a bit silly. But considering it was a first choice Scottish pack against our make shift pack I thought we did pretty well.

Main positives

a) Kearney and to a less extent Fitzgerald and Ryan
b) Excellent defence
c) Winning turnovers

Main negatives

a) No phase play
b) Very little forward momentum
c) Very little creativity ( a handfull of moments aside)

What are your thoughts?

Its hard to rate guys in that kind of game to be honest. Slightly harsh on TOL i felt but i am not going to argue.

Players going from that squad

Court- was always going anyway
Buckley- will be useful in the loose
Cronin- if Fla gets fit he will be a clear 3rd choice though
Cullen- Always going to go
Ryan - Still the most likely to go as 4th choice
Leamy- Solid showing.

TOL- Will go but maybe as 3rd choice. Certainly not as No.1
Sexton- Obviously
Wallace- Will go as 12 and 10 cover
Fitz- On that showing i think Fitz will go instead of McFadden
Trimble- Did well; will go
Kearney- Looks very solid. Will go as No.1 fullback most likely.
Jones- Too early to say if he will definately go but i think Fitz will go as wing and centre cover leaving a spot for him or Murphy

I wouldn't rate Leamy so high but he did a good job of scrapping. He needs a big ball carrier alongside him to be effective. His ball carrying isn't enough right now.

I agree on Wallace. An average game, the better of the two centres- did some things well but can do better. I'm bemused by the hating on him.

The main positive was the back three for me. Our three best players were in the back three. Unfortunately our pack didn't give us any go forward and our phase play was excruciatingly bad.

I thought TOL had a good game,his pass was as fast as Boss his defence was fairly solid(he missed one or two tackles) and put in some good kicks.

Not bad at all, scorelines a fair reflection of the game. Although it wouldnt of been a crime if we won, the Scots deserved a victory after going through their usual show of attacking and failing like a one legged hurdler at the five metre line.

Impressive defensive technique, never thought id be so proud to have dismantled a scottish attack, but given the renewed intensity they had its an impressive feat for our 1st team - fourth team line up.

Thought Wallace did fairly well! As another poster told me a week back about his distribution and passing, it held up quite well and was instrumental in a fair few attacks. TOL was excruiciatingly horrible to watch during our longer phase attacks, especially one during the first half where we made all the hard yards, had AB attacking ferocity only for TOL to decide to slow it down to the pass a minute rate. My only explanation is that he has poor eyesight and the poor fella has to squint and look at each flank for around 10 seconds to get a good view of where everyone is.

Firstly pete, I think you've got the analysis right for the most part (I'd disagree with a small few things but not enough to contradict you on).

I think as far as the scores go though, yours are a bit high. After all, we still lost and only scored 6 points in the process and really didn't look like creating anything at all.

Court: 5 - Was no more that OK
Cronin: 3 - Very poor, didn't do the basics of tackling and catching passes well at all
Buckley: 5 - See Court
Cullen: 6 - Solid if unspectacular
Ryan: 6 - See Cullen
McCarthy:6.5 - Pick of the Irish forwards for me. Still way off Ferris and SOB obviously
Ronan: 2.5 - Ugh
Leamy: 6 - Did OK, generated no real forward momentum though
O'Leary: 5 - Did fine considering the trash he was getting from the forwards, obviously rusty though
Sexton: 6.5 - Performed admirably enough with the little ball he got
Fitzgerald: 6.5 - Tried hard and looked good in the first half, faded in the second
Wallace: 6.5 - Defended well despite being targeted continually, had little good ball to use in attack
McFadden: 4.5 - Disappointing. Not a 13 though, was caught out for the try. Offered nothing in attack
Trimble: 6 - Looked good in attack, should've coped with Lamont a bit better but not entirely his fault (Lamont spent a lot of time attacking McFadden)
Kearney: 7 - Very solid under the high ball and played well at fullback. Forgot he was defending the left wing for the try though and was caught out badly

Attack: 2 - Awful. A lot to do with the quality of ball getting to the backs
Defence: 8 - The one thing the forwards did really well
Discipline: 8 - I thought we were very good in this regard which was nice to see

Even though Ireland lost, the players still deserve fairly high scores for the level of their performance.

Some of the outside backs are being criticised for lack of invention in attack, but that responsibility rests mainly on Sexton and to a lesser degree O'Leary. In turn they can only create opportunities if they get good ball.

Andy Robinson has picked a team that more resembles one from the League code rather than Union. Spreading big tacklers across the pitch is hard to break through. Equally their defensive mindset is so ingrained that they are reluctant to take an individual chance in attack.

So the best way to beat Scotland is to take them on in the set piece and bunch the big men together to leave space elsewhere. The trouble was that Ireland's pack while competing manfully lacked any real class to do that. Both Rennie and Strokosch had way too much time to get to the breakdown to nip any fast ball in the bud.

Ireland also needed TOL to snipe round the fringes, and Sexton to make a few runs. It was fairly obvious that TOL was neither sharp enough nor confident enough to play to that particular strength of his, and Sexton had maybe been told to avoid undue contact.

So all in all Ireland's second choice pack matched Scotland's first and were leading up to the last five minutes. That's a good performance IMO and deserves credit.

Leamy, playing with a better back row around him, is still able to compete at international level.

Niall Ronan got a full 80 minutes in which he played about 10 minutes of rugby

Mike McCarthy was completely anonymous and so far out of his depth it was embarrassing that he also finished the match. He was switched into the second row in the 51st minute when he missed Lamont and a straight up tackle.

Paddy Wallace has been tried and tested and has failed on numerous occasions. Once again his defence was awful yesterday.























(Not my opinion, lifted straight from Neil Francis this morning...)

greybeard,

I read Neil Francis. I think he decided to be negative in his report before the game yesterday and refused to change that opinion no matter what happened yesterday.

Without being dreadful neither Wallace nor McFadden stepped up. Sean Cronin looks enthusiastic in every match I have seen him play internationally but I am yet to be really impressed by him. Our defensive system and our back 3 were the positives I took from the game. I was happy enough with O'Leary and Sexton despite the concerns raised by others here.

I think people have been too harsh on the tight 5. I thought the set piece was very solid and we dominated the contact areas. TOL's service was better than I expected so the back can have no complaints about the ball.

The problem for me was a lack of ball carrying, particularly the back row, and also a lack of strike runners in the backs.

Some of the back play was pretty good but was too deep and apart from Trimble there was no one willing or able to take the ball effectively into contact, therefore we were forced to kick too much ball away.

Here's my scores:

Court: 6.5 - Solid in the scrum and carried and defended well
Cronin: 6 - Line out throwing was good. Defended well but not much carrying.
Buckley: 6 - Disappointed by his carrying but scrummaged well.
Cullen: 8 - Worked hard and excellent leadership. Good lineout.
Ryan: 7 - Strong defence but not enough carrying.
McCarthy:6 - Again lots of defending but not much else
Ronan: 6 - Good link play and turnover but doesn't look top class
Leamy: 5 - Very disappointing. Good defence but nothing in attack.
O'Leary: 6 -Decent service but struggled in defence.
Sexton: 6 - Stood too deep and didn't really spark much in attack.
Fitzgerald: 8 - Looked sharp in attack and superb in defence.
Wallace: 7 - Excellent defence and good hands in attack. Some good kicks too.
McFadden: 6 - Good defence apart from the try. Tried hard but not able too offer much in attack. Looks too small to be an effective 13.
Trimble: 6.5 - Good line break and tried hard. Hands let him down a few times.
Kearney: 7 - Excellent at fielding kicks and positioning. Good hands in attack but didn't offer enough strike threat.

Overall an excellent display from a scratch team but the backrow and midfield balance wasn't quite right.

I think Neil Francis is pretty bad. Pretty, pretty bad.

greybeard wrote:
Paddy Wallace has been tried and tested and has failed on numerous occasions. Once again his defence was awful yesterday.
(Not my opinion, lifted straight from Neil Francis this morning...)

I take it Francis didn't manage to catch the game then. I'm not sure what part of 13 tackles made and 2 missed is awful. BOD would be happy with those stats.

I find your rating for Leamy very strange Rodders. To me his defence was average, he scrapped very well at the rucks and fronted up as Irelands only ball carrying option in the forwads. Without being a real bulldozing ballcarrier he did an ok job.

red_stag wrote:I find your rating for Leamy very strange Rodders. To me his defence was average, he scrapped very well at the rucks and fronted up as Irelands only ball carrying option in the forwads. Without being a real bulldozing ballcarrier he did an ok job.

I'm just looking at the stats stag and perhaps I've been too harsh. Maybe I was expecting too much given his experience. He obviously carried more effectively than I thought. I'll give him a 6.5 then but he's still way of the level of O'Brien, Heaslip, Ferris and Wallace for me.

Oh he's definitely below the level of our "big 4" backrows but I was impressed. My one gripe was at one stage Ireland made a grubber kick and he was half taken out. Anyway he fell and started gesturing to the ref and linesman. Didn't like that.

I thought McCarthy was actually the best defensive backrow and had a knack of tackling, then ending up on wrong side of tackle. What was great was that he'd remain there just a split second and roll away then. As far as I can remember he only got pinged once. Him, Leamy and someone like Jennings could have been a great unit.

The thing is, it now sounds like Wallace is being singled out for praise by those defending him. He didn't really do anything too praiseworthy. Whilst never doing anything wrong.

I have no idea why he is singled out because you could say the exact same for Sexton, O'Leary and McFadden; most of the team in fact.

I want to see those players get more gametime.

Notch he and McFadden made considerbly more tackles than everyone else. Yes McFadden made the defensive error which cost us the game but generally they were outstanding in defence and that should be recognised.

Wallace also created the only linebreak with his quick handling and kicked well too so I see no problem singling him out for special praise.

I though Fitzgerald was our best back though. I'm surprised no one has mentioned that incredible cover tackle on Lamont.

Yeah, he shouldn't be dropped on the back of it unless D'Arcy is fit. But neither has he advanced his case to take D'Arcys place (vacated though it now is). On the other hand, calls for him to be dropped seem over the top given he was the better of the two.

Stalemate.

Wallace didn't play badly. However he certainly didn't play well. An average game - not enough to win him any fans. I'm sure he'll get another go against France.

I think he has advanced the case Notch. How can he not have?

His critics said he couldn't defend (some still do) yet he was arguably our best defender. His handling was excellent and he brought a good kicking game to the table.

He was also surprisingly every bit as effective as McFadden, when taking into contact. If D'arcy doesn't recover then Wallace has probably nailed down the jersey in my view.

I'd like to see us look at Earls and Bowe in the centre though and McFadden did enough to justify a bit of time at 12 to see how he goes.

I don't think he has advanced his case too much, we already knew he could do everything he showed, I do however think the case for picking McFadden ahead of him has suffered.

I agree with you that he will and should start if D'Arcy doesn't recover, but I think he needs to offer more against France otherwise they will opt to start D'Arcy ahead of him when the real rugby starts.

I'm guessing that both players who started in the centre yesterday will get gametime at 12 anyway in these two France matches. Rightly so. We have no-one else to come in really. I don't think Fitzgerald will do better and none of the guys who can move inside will start at 12. Maybe 13.

Notch wrote:I don't think he has advanced his case too much, we already knew he could do everything he showed, I do however think the case for picking McFadden ahead of him has suffered.

Well if McFadden's case has suffered, then surely Wallace's has been advanced? I'm not sure everyone did know he could do everything he showed. Plenty of people have been doubting his defence and physicality. Yet he made more metres with the ball in hand than McFadden and was the joint top tackler. I'm afraid some people will just hate Wallace no matter how he plays.

Are you accusing me of hating Wallace regardless of how plays? It's a nice change of pace. You're right.

We're going around in circles, we basically agree.

Notch wrote:I don't think he has advanced his case too much, we already knew he could do everything he showed, I do however think the case for picking McFadden ahead of him has suffered.

I agree.

I think that all those Paddy-bashers should be completely lambasting McFadden or risk being called hypocrites. I thought Wallace performed better than McFadden over the 80 minutes. What did people expect anyway? It was never going to be a day where our centres were going to shine. Defensively they did their jobs well. What more can you ask?

I'd like to see Wallace playing at 12 in France next weekend with a better pack in front of him. Then, in the return fixture in Dublin it should be McFadden who gets the 12 jersey, also as part of a better team. Then we can better judge the situation.

p.s. Ye should read what they're saying on MFans.com about Wallace (actually don't, it'd just make your blood boil). Unbelievable levels of tripe.

Isn't that the general standard of debate on munsterfans?

MMC wrote:

I think that all those Paddy-bashers should be completely lambasting McFadden or risk being called hypocrites. I thought Wallace performed better than McFadden over the 80 minutes. What did people expect anyway? It was never going to be a day where our centres were going to shine. Defensively they did their jobs well. What more can you ask?

Well they are hypocrites but McFadden doesn't deserve to be lambasted for 1 mistake either, albeit a costly one. He had a pretty good game considering his lack of experience and gametime in the centre this season. Hopefully this hype about him being the new BOD or D'arcy will subside a bit now until he delivers something substantial for province and country.

roddersm wrote:Well they are hypocrites but McFadden doesn't deserve to be lambasted for 1 mistake either

Oh I agree rodders, just emphasizing the point.

And Notch, that is indeed the general level of debate on Munsterfans unfortunately. Which is why I've posted about 12 times there in the space of a few years.

I think really the reaction and the criticism... it's all rather out of hand. So many Ireland fans are so negative. Real armchair experts who are always running down the team and individual players.

Just reading the Guinness Rugby Supporters Ireland facebook site when we play is enough to drive me up the wall. Not to mention the abuse players get on Twitter and so on, and other forums. This forum is positively tame by comparison.

Really gets on my nerves.

Sorry MMC I know you were and it was a good point too.

Notch wrote:I think really the reaction and the criticism... it's all rather out of hand. So many Ireland fans are so negative. Real armchair experts who are always running down the team and individual players.

Just reading the Guinness Rugby Supporters Ireland facebook site when we play is enough to drive me up the wall. Not to mention the abuse players get on Twitter and so on, and other forums. This forum is positively tame by comparison.

Really gets on my nerves.

Unfortunately it's a very Irish thing to do. I think the will to win every game is admirable and obviously it's better than the old "ah sher once we don't disgrace ourselves it'll be grand" attitude, but people need to be realistic too.

People need to think back to the first few games in the 6 Nations. We were getting pinged constantly when attempting to hold people up in the tackle, we were knocking on every single pass, amongst other very annoying things.
Conversely, yesterday we saw a largely second string side produce a very solid defensive performance with only a few errors. Added to that, the errors were down to a few individuals being off their game, not the team malaise of the 6 Nations.

It was their first game in months after a brutal training regime, in Edinburgh, against a pretty damn decent Scottish side!

Oh sorry, that's not a popular view so instead...Irish rugby is DOOMED! Doomed I tell you!

MMC I agree totally. For me that side exceeded expectations generally so I can't understand why people would be negative.

That was a far better performance from a 2nd/3rd string than our 1st choice have produced in a lot of games recently.

The set piece was solid against a massive Scottish pack, the defence was excellent and discipline was very good. The backplay was pretty positive despite our failure to create any scoring opportunities.

There were a few issues, like the ball carrying and the result was disappointing but there were far more positives than negatives in my view.

If we'd have pulled of that win it would have been incredible and most of that side did themselves proud even if a few won't make the cut this time.

There were people on facebook saying "Aw, we've no chance in the World Cup- awful etc." on the back of that game. Feel a bit for all of the players because normally their first game of the season is a pre-season friendly in front of a few thousand fans and it's not on TV. It's not easy for any player or team to perform incredibly well on their first hit out of the new season, so I'm loathe to draw conclusions from that game.

I was thinking; who could you rule out of the final squad? Niall Ronan would be one. I think the only one I would close the book on at this stage of the starting XV.

I'm very pleased at our schedule for the warm-up games, I think we're going to get everyone enough gametime to blow off the cobwebs and I'm not too worried about the result. Ultimately, the only thing I'm worried about is our attacking play and structure and thats a team/coaching issue rather than anything to do with individuals.

Also, I might not consider McCarthy for further gametime.

McCarthy suffers from being in the same position (kind of) as SOB and 1F who both need gametime. Maybe a run out against Connacht for McCarthy i think.

I agree with most of what has been written on here to be honest. Had paddy jumped the line like McFadden did he would have been lambasted. That being said i dont think we have a great attacking gameplan and our players are not used to their strengths. The Facebook page is hilarious notch. I dont want to come over negative at all but were we ever really thinking we were going to win the RWC? As much as i love Irish rugby i cant say i was ever THAT optimistic

Anyone think that the Connacht game should not be considered at all as a warm up match?

People see Leinster and Munster winning Heineken Cups and they expect us to go out and dominate the international game like the Irish provinces have (to a certain extent, not entirely) dominated European competition since 2006.

The casual fan in the street seems to be under the impression that Ireland have a host of world class players to call on and we should be on a par with the SH sides.

It's weird.

How do you mean MBTGOG?

I wouldnt be risking any of the 1st XV and maybe the first squad in it but it could be used to look for backups i guess.

MBTGOG wrote:Anyone think that the Connacht game should not be considered at all as a warm up match?

No, players who are going to be in that RWC final squad are going to be playing. Probably about 7 or 8 of the final squad will be involved in that match. And I'd say pretty much the entire 30-man squad will be involved in the group stages.

They'll also be looking at the same defensive systems, calls etc. All of those players will be familiarised with the way the coaches want to get this team to play if they need to be called on.

It's a warm-up match, for sure. The point is to get players gametime and sort out the 50/50 calls of who should be on the plane and who should be left at home.

It would seem to be between McCarthy and Ryan for the lock/blindside slot.

McCarthy was a lot more involved than Ryan in yesterday's game so on that one showing the jury must still be out.

However while McCarthy might have outplayed Ryan, neither look to be true test standard and Ryan is younger and at least knows the Munster players in the pack so I'd probably pick him anyway, and agree that McCarthy has had his chance.

The Connacht game will be to give fringe players gametime but also to keep those home-based injury cover players a run-out. Roll out Horan and Hayes again, and Ian Humphreys would have been a candidate to play in that one... if he hadn't been injured, so I'd expect Keatley to start at 10 for 'Ireland' against Connacht.

I thought Ryan did well enough yesterday. McCarthy was ok without ever being impressive.

I think we have come to rely on the explosive ball carriers we have in the backrow to get us on the front foot and our backs, particularly centres, have had little gainline success. So maybe I'm actually over-focusing on his lack of ball carrying. Leamy too. And the likes of Best and O'Connell in the tight five were missed too.

roddersm wrote:
The problem for me was a lack of ball carrying, particularly the back row, and also a lack of strike runners in the backs.

Some of the back play was pretty good but was too deep and apart from Trimble there was no one willing or able to take the ball effectively into contact, therefore we were forced to kick too much ball away.

Here's my scores:

Cullen: 8 - Worked hard and excellent leadership. Good lineout.
Ryan: 7 - Strong defence but not enough carrying.
Ronan: 6 - Good link play and turnover but doesn't look top class
Leamy: 5 - Very disappointing. Good defence but nothing in attack.

Fitzgerald: 8 - Looked sharp in attack and superb in defence.
McFadden: 6 - Good defence apart from the try. Tried hard but not able too offer much in attack. Looks too small to be an effective 13.
Trimble: 6.5 - Good line break and tried hard. Hands let him down a few times.
Kearney: 7 - Excellent at fielding kicks and positioning. Good hands in attack but didn't offer enough strike threat.

Overall an excellent display from a scratch team but the backrow and midfield balance wasn't quite right.

I've out all day and just in now, so I realise that the debate has moved on a bit. But although I agree with the bolded parts I disagree with these ratings.
An 8 is ridiculously high for cullen, he was decent but he was the poorest of the 4 locks on display yesterday. Imo the pack lacked leadership and direction at times.
A 7 is about right for ryan, he did what he was supposed to do in the doc role. He isn't the biggest carrier but he should have took on some more responsiblity but that isn't really is game. I probably would have given him a 6 put he deserves a 7 for nearly killing denton at one stage in the match.
Ronan was muck as usual. His contribution was summed up by his retarded decision to kick the ball away after ryan forced denton to knock on.
Leamy was Ireland's best player imo, not the same type of player as he used to be and lacking a bit of power but he showed leadership and a huge workrate. He has probably secured his place in the 30.

Fitz was better than he has been at any stage this season and the good definitely outweighed the bad but he still made too many mistakes. I think a 6 would have been a fairer reflection.
McFadden was very disappointing after all the hype.
Trimble was Ireland's best back along with kearney and it will be really disappointing if he doesn't make the 22 against australia.

Notch I don't think this game takes us any closer or further from winning the WC. However I don't think a few seasons ago we could have made that many changes and performed as well as that. If McFadden hadn't of shot out of the line we'd have won that game and if so it would have been a respectable result for our full side, let alone one thrown together.

Val, I've said elsewhere I got it wrong on Leamy. After reviewing the stats I realise he carried a lot more than I thought. I don't agree he was our best player though.

Why do you feel the pack lacked leadership? The lineout was excellent and the scrum was solid too. We dominated the breakdown and slowed down the scottish pack and produced quick ball for ourselves. I really am baffled by this criticism of our pack.

I was disappointed by Buckleys lack of carrying though and he was outworked by Court in the lose.

Ronin produced an excellent turnover close to our own line which probably saved a try against us and his work rate was excellent even if he didn't have much impact. He's not a serious consideration for the WC squad but he did ok.

I'm not sure what all these mistakes were by Fitzgerald? His defence was superb and he produced some lovely bits of skill in attack. That cover tackle on Lamont was as good as any you'll see and saved a certain try.

I thought Ryan had a good game and would certainly be ahead of McCarthy for me, who although had a decent game didn't do enough to put himself in the frame for me. It's a pity Tuohy didn't make the cut but for me Ryan is the 4th best 2nd row in the squad.

I'm not sure what all these mistakes were by Fitzgerald?

I don't think there were lots but there was that awful kick that went straight into Beattie's gut and started one of their attacks.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/5404651/All-Blacks-Eden-Park-test-player-ratings

I think these ratings of the New Zealand's players after their game this weekend should put into perspective the ratings some are giving on here.

I agree the way I see ratings is that 5 is an average performace. Not bad, not great. I think we had some guys who were above average on Saturday, others were below average. I was amazed to see Leo Cullen getting an 8!!!!

I would say Fitz had great success with his grubber kicks in the first half and perhaps did it too much in the 2nd. He was better than i have seen him in a long time though which was great. That tackle was superb on Lamont and he won penalty later.

red_stag wrote: I was amazed to see Leo Cullen getting an 8!!!!

I thought he was excellent. Way above average. His leadership was excellent. the lineout functioned well and the scrum was way better than expected. He got through a ton of work at the breakdown too and generally did a great job leading an inexperienced pack against a very good Scottish pack, who to be honest I expected would demolish us.

IMO, Leamy didn't help his chances of going to the RWC that much in that game, he could have and should have stood out and he, in my eyes did not.

I thought Kearney was by far our best back. He should have had that try. Was so nice to see him working his feet and passing the ball, can't remember the last time I saw Kearney pass the ball so much in any one game. His high ball take was very good too

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:IMO, Leamy didn't help his chances of going to the RWC that much in that game, he could have and should have stood out and he, in my eyes did not.

I thought Kearney was by far our best back. He should have had that try. Was so nice to see him working his feet and passing the ball, can't remember the last time I saw Kearney pass the ball so much in any one game. His high ball take was very good too

Yeah I agree on both points Pete. Not sure if he was the best back but he was particularly good and looked very sharp. However one critsicism for me is that he didn't join the attack enough or run support lines off the other backs. Therefore the question marks whether he can be the attacking fullback we need still remain. He's booked his place on the plane though and possibly the 1st XV too.

Leamy did ok but didn't have the big game I'd have hoped for given the competition in the backrow.