Ireland- Player ratings/Analysis/Thougthts

First topic message reminder :

Hi all,

Happy Sunday.
Watched the game back again and have been reading all the stuff on some of the other threads. And thought I'd give my 2c and all that jazz.

I want to say that I was really impressed with the team. Considering how many players we were missing I think it was a great effort, in a way I think we deserved to win, but well done to Scotland who had more ball.

Court: 6.5
Played quite well, scrum held up better than I expected it too. He was in there for a few turn overs and I saw him holding a lot of Scots in the tackle. He didn't do much carrying but whenever he was involved in a turnover he shifted the ball well and cleverly.
Cronin: 4
I think this was a huge chance which he blew. He fell off a few tackles, he got stripped of the ball a few times. Didn't carry well or run those great support lines he can run. Lineout was ok, as was scrum. But was disappointed with him.
Buckley: 5.5
Didn't carry that much or effectively. Didn't show the slick offloading that he can showcase. Was good in the wrap up tackles due to his strength and could see he was a good lifter in the lineout too.
Cullen: 6.5
Varied the lineout calls really well IMO. Did a lot of donkey work and defended well too. Hardly touched the ball in attack but that is testement to how much he was doing in the trenches.
Ryan: 6
Good in the trenches with Cullen. Hardly ran the ball either though, would have liked to have seen more of him here. Felt he was solid and did what he did well but was hoping for more.
McCarthy:6
Did well enough. Bought in to the defensive structure well and it suited him. Carried more than other forwards. Really enjoyed watching him play. Good hands on turnovers too. Good in the air when called upon too. Showed his versatility too.
Ronan: 4.5
Showed good hands at times but passed before contact too often. Didn't link like a natural 7. Was anonymous for most of the game. Wasn't that evident in defence either. Awful kick on turnover.
Leamy: 7
Great showing in defence managing to lift attackers off the ground and hold them there. Should have taken on more carrying himself. Discipline was good. Did quite well in the rucks also. Did well off a few messy scrums also.
O'Leary: 4.5
His passing was still a bit laboured at times and took a while getting the ball out of the rucks on occassions. His defence wasn't as good as it should have been either, big missed tackles on Lamont and Beattie. Some very good box kicks some not so good ones. Passing from offloads was surprisingly poor.
Sexton: 6.5
Didn't have much ball what he did have he used well. He distributed well and made good decisions. 2 poor kicks to touch however. Great defence and led the defensive line well. Made one or two nice breaks to offload to support runners. Kicked from floor well too
Fitzgerald: 7
Looked like a livewire with ball in hand. Showed good feet and hands at times. Did kick the ball too often though without a doubt, some were very clever some not so much. Good defence and good rucking too to disrupt and win Scottish ball.
Wallace: 6.5
Held against Morrision well. Didn't let him break the line and stopped offloads too. Used his feet well off scrums and lineouts but rarely made breaks except off a Sexton offload. Great hands to release the wings on a number of occasions. Kicked well too (at times)
McFadden: 5
Disappointed in him. Made a lot of tackles and did well in defence but shot out of the line twice and was punished with a linebreak and a try. Didn't really offer anything in attack, didn't have much ball but should have offered more. Knocked on too many times.
Trimble: 6.5
Made a few good breaks and found O'Leary and Fitzgerald with good offloads. Think he could have been more physical in defence after his first 10mins. Good in the air from kicks. Ran well and hard too but didn't get enough ball and maybe should have come off his wing looking for more.
Kearney: 8
Not one of his biggest fans but was very impressive. Chased kicks excellently. Joined the line well. Showed good hands and feet in drawing players and passing. Should have scored a try on his return. Claimed high balls well. Defended well too. Very good performance.

Subs:
Boss upped the tempo when he came on and got forwards running onto the ball rather than taking it static. McLaughlin was exceptionally physical when he came on too and really showcased what he can bring to the team. Horan, Hayes, Fla and MOD didn't really add much.

Notes:
Defence was excellent that strategy worked so well. The Scottish rarely got quick ball and we caused a lot of turnovers. On these turnovers we generally did quite well getting it to wingers or other backs who pushed the ball behind the Scots or made ground up the flanks. We didn't go through enough phases however.
The pack and TOL in conjuction didn't win enough quick ball and we rarely were going forwards. There weren't enough players in the pack who were able to put the head down and make serious yards and get the ball back quickly. Sexton tried a lot to get guys outside him working and to some success and managed to get the back 3 into some space. We could have done with McFadden crashing it up more effectively and Wallace making a few more yards with his feet.
Out lineout wasn't that bad either, we competed on their throw and won some of their ball at times. On our throw we did ok, but what few set plays we used off off the top ball were quite ineffectual. Scrums were ok but no more. Two early engagements in a row were a bit silly. But considering it was a first choice Scottish pack against our make shift pack I thought we did pretty well.

Main positives

a) Kearney and to a less extent Fitzgerald and Ryan
b) Excellent defence
c) Winning turnovers

Main negatives

a) No phase play
b) Very little forward momentum
c) Very little creativity ( a handfull of moments aside)

What are your thoughts?

red_stag wrote:

clivemcl wrote:For me McFadden had a shot and didn't do enough.

To me this isn't really the way it should work. We build teams. It isn't a case of throw people in and instant results.

The problem is Stag the WC is in 4 weeks so we need instant results. McFadden might get another run out but I don't think it should be along side Wallace and if he doesn't make the cut this time I'm sure he'll get his chance post WC.

As an Englishman who was at the game (and therefore hopefully unbiased by commentary or nationality) I think the Irish performance was pretty much as you would expect from a 2nd string side playing against a Scottish side who defended very well indeed.

You could see that the Irish missed a moment of genius they often get from O'Driscoll, Tommy Bowe or in fact quite a few of the first teamers. The back row was noticably below par (compared to the "1st team") and I didn't think that Jackson was ever under all that much pressure.

The Irish discipline and Defence was very good in general however and you get the feeling that any of the guys on the pitch could get involved with the "1st team" and not let them down, however there were no real stand outs and no-one has really made Kidney's job difficult.

What annoyed me was that we couldn't even pick and mix our backrows.

Our first choice : Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace.

Our second choice : Leamy, O'Brien, Jennings

Why couldn't we have seen even one more of these guys even on the bench. It would have offered so much more.

Yeah I largely agree with that scream. Especially regarding the backrow.

13 changes from the team that beat England. Probably going to be another 13 for next week. There are not too many conclusions to be drawn, in all honesty.

Notch wrote:

roddersm wrote:Notch if McFadden's most dangerous weapon is the outside break then we're in trouble because he didn't make a single line break or beat one defender against Scotland. If he can't beat Ansboro and Morrison then he won't worry France much.

Yeah, but he never got quality ball to attack with. Neither did Wallace or Sexton. Thats why I want to see more of these players, in a stronger team, to make an informed judgement on them.

Notch they got better ball than our backs usually get and certainly than the Australian backs got against NZ so that isn't an excuse. Good players should be able to beat defenders and make space.

We just didn't have the players, bar Trimble, to make linebreaks and changing the forwards won't alter that.

Well he may worry the French since he scored a try against them last time he played.

I don't think he should be retained at 13 not because he didn't do well, (he didn't do very well) but the ball he got was pretty poor. For me it would be because we need to see what Earls and Wallace are like again. earls needs to be playing asap anyways I think. get him back on a pitch and get that momentum he had at the end of alst season up and running again

red_stag wrote:

clivemcl wrote:For me McFadden had a shot and didn't do enough.

To me this isn't really the way it should work. We build teams. It isn't a case of throw people in and instant results.

Yea but theres that whole rugby world cup thing coming up. I think theres only a limited number of games, and limited number of seats on the plane so...

You are aware i was talking about him missing out for a few months, not suggesting a life time ban stag. Tough choices need to be made.

Against France I'd like to see a backline of:

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Earls
12 Wallace
11 Trimble
10 Sexton
9 Reddan

Bench: McFadden, ROG and Stringer.

Maybe give McFadden 20 min at 12 with Earls.

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:

roddersm wrote:Notch if McFadden's most dangerous weapon is the outside break then we're in trouble because he didn't make a single line break or beat one defender against Scotland. If he can't beat Ansboro and Morrison then he won't worry France much.

Yeah, but he never got quality ball to attack with. Neither did Wallace or Sexton. Thats why I want to see more of these players, in a stronger team, to make an informed judgement on them.

Notch they got better ball than our backs usually get and certainly than the Australian backs got against NZ so that isn't an excuse. Good players should be able to beat defenders and make space.

We just didn't have the players, bar Trimble, to make linebreaks and changing the forwards won't alter that.

They really didn't get that kind of ball. We were almost never going forward and we had very little possession. I'd be curious to see how many times in the game he got the opportunity to run onto a pass.

Like I say, Wallace/Earls would be a good selection. But I would like to see McFadden again at 13.

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:

roddersm wrote:Notch if McFadden's most dangerous weapon is the outside break then we're in trouble because he didn't make a single line break or beat one defender against Scotland. If he can't beat Ansboro and Morrison then he won't worry France much.

Yeah, but he never got quality ball to attack with. Neither did Wallace or Sexton. Thats why I want to see more of these players, in a stronger team, to make an informed judgement on them.

Notch they got better ball than our backs usually get and certainly than the Australian backs got against NZ so that isn't an excuse. Good players should be able to beat defenders and make space.

We just didn't have the players, bar Trimble, to make linebreaks and changing the forwards won't alter that.

Have to disagree Rodders, not once were we able to move the ball quickly away from the rucks to give the centers enough time and space to attack. You can't lay all the blame for that on O'Leary, the backrow had their part to play in it. Hopefully Kidney will stick with the same centers and bring Earls and Bowe onto the wings and maybe Jones to fullback. But he will have to add more firepower to the pack to see any material improvment in the backs.

Clive, I actually thought you were suggesting thats his one and only shot.

See, Mickado 'gets' what I've been trying to say!

"But he will have to add more firepower to the pack to see any material improvment in the backs."

+1

red_stag wrote:Clive, I actually thought you were suggesting thats his one and only shot.

I'm not THAT cuthroat Stag!

clivemcl wrote:

red_stag wrote:Clive, I actually thought you were suggesting thats his one and only shot.

I'm not THAT cuthroat Stag!

Glad to hear it!!

Donal Lenihan's comments on the centres. He rates McFadden.

The other area that Declan Kidney will deliberate over is the composition of his midfield backs, especially with injury doubts surrounding Gordon D’Arcy and, less so, Brian O’Driscoll.

I like the look of Fergus McFadden and would definitely bring him.

He now has international experience in the centre and on the wing, along with being a frontline goal kicker.

Paddy Wallace, a long-term favourite of Kidney, was targeted all day by Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont in defence and was bumped off on too many occasions. With the long-term Leinster pairing also likely to be absent for the game against France in Bordeaux on Saturday, I would like to see a bit of experimentation from Kidney, with Tommy Bowe given a spell in midfield for that game.

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/sport/rugby/time-is-not-on-kidneys-side-163549.html#ixzz1URL01a9R

Mick, Notch. I thought our pack did produce good clean ball and TOL's service was fine for once. The problem was we had no ball carriers to take us over the advantage line. Part of that problem was in the forwards, particularly the back row but it was also a problem in the 3/4's, where only Trimble was effective at taking the ball into contact.

Notch you can't say McFadden suffered from our failure to get over the gainline and get going forward when he was part of the problem.

Thats not a critcism of the players themselves but of the selection.

Notch, I could see this happening last week. I expected a close game, a loss and a knicker fit about 10-12-13 because of a callow performance from the backrow.

I agree with the above posts, the quality of ball cannot be entirely blamed for the lack of line breaks.

But we might have had more chance to judge the attacking abilities if we ran some of those balls instead of kicking.
Sometimes i feel that the kicking option just shows a lack of confidence in a teams counterattacking ability.

Super 15 is full of line breaks from inside teams own halves.

Sin é wrote:Donal Lenihan's comments on the centres. He rates McFadden.

The other area that Declan Kidney will deliberate over is the composition of his midfield backs, especially with injury doubts surrounding Gordon D’Arcy and, less so, Brian O’Driscoll.

I like the look of Fergus McFadden and would definitely bring him.

He now has international experience in the centre and on the wing, along with being a frontline goal kicker.

Paddy Wallace, a long-term favourite of Kidney, was targeted all day by Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont in defence and was bumped off on too many occasions. With the long-term Leinster pairing also likely to be absent for the game against France in Bordeaux on Saturday, I would like to see a bit of experimentation from Kidney, with Tommy Bowe given a spell in midfield for that game.

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/sport/rugby/time-is-not-on-kidneys-side-163549.html#ixzz1URL01a9R

I actually didnt see a single Wallace miss tackle to be honest. I saw Morisson and co push him back 10metres in our own 22, but thats it. I did however see morisson bump McFadden off. Perhaps the above journo is mistaken in who he saw...

"Paddy Wallace, a long-term favourite of Kidney, was targeted all day by Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont in defence and was bumped off on too many occasions"

Keith Wood said the same at half time Sin but this just isn't true and even the stats will tell you this.

Wallace was targetted all day, as was McFadden, but he wasn't bumped off once and made his tackles all day.

I can't believe these guys are so blatantly bias. It seem Lenihan is just regurgitating what Wood said. It's a disgrace.

The wave of hype behind McFadden is astonishing. I'm not siding with those writing him off entirely, but come on... he was hardly the big story man of the match. And again this 'bumped off' thing. Wallace did very well in defence implementing the gang tackle where you deliberately go high and try to hold the ball carrier up.

I honestly would say there was very little in terms of performance between the two centres; Wallace was the more influential, but he also saw more ball. It is crazy some people are writing one off at the expense of the other.

It really baffles me why the Irish sporting press is always pushing agendas rather than commenting in an unbiased fashion. Or at the very least, pundits write their preconceptions and not what they actually see.

roddersm wrote:"Paddy Wallace, a long-term favourite of Kidney, was targeted all day by Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont in defence and was bumped off on too many occasions"

Keith Wood said the same at half time Sin but this just isn't true and even the stats will tell you this.

Wallace was targetted all day, as was McFadden, but he wasn't bumped off once and made his tackles all day.

I can't believe these guys are so blatantly bias. It seem Lenihan is just regurgitating what Wood said. It's a disgrace.

+1

Mickado wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:

roddersm wrote:Notch if McFadden's most dangerous weapon is the outside break then we're in trouble because he didn't make a single line break or beat one defender against Scotland. If he can't beat Ansboro and Morrison then he won't worry France much.

Yeah, but he never got quality ball to attack with. Neither did Wallace or Sexton. Thats why I want to see more of these players, in a stronger team, to make an informed judgement on them.

Notch they got better ball than our backs usually get and certainly than the Australian backs got against NZ so that isn't an excuse. Good players should be able to beat defenders and make space.

We just didn't have the players, bar Trimble, to make linebreaks and changing the forwards won't alter that.

Have to disagree Rodders, not once were we able to move the ball quickly away from the rucks to give the centers enough time and space to attack. You can't lay all the blame for that on O'Leary, the backrow had their part to play in it. Hopefully Kidney will stick with the same centers and bring Earls and Bowe onto the wings and maybe Jones to fullback. But he will have to add more firepower to the pack to see any material improvment in the backs.

I think the ball was being sent wide before any Scottish defenders were drawn into the ruck to give a bit of space to the backs. Paul O'Connell does this all the time and it usually takes 3 defenders to stop him. He doesn't make much ground (which he gets stick for), but he does draw defenders in, which opens up a bit of space for the backs.

Mickado wrote:Notch, I could see this happening last week. I expected a close game, a loss and a knicker fit about 10-12-13 because of a callow performance from the backrow.

Quality punditry Mick! I'd rather listen to you than Neil Francis

roddersm wrote:"Paddy Wallace, a long-term favourite of Kidney, was targeted all day by Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont in defence and was bumped off on too many occasions"

Keith Wood said the same at half time Sin but this just isn't true and even the stats will tell you this.

Wallace was targetted all day, as was McFadden, but he wasn't bumped off once and made his tackles all day.

I can't believe these guys are so blatantly bias. It seem Lenihan is just regurgitating what Wood said. It's a disgrace.

Missed two tackles according to the stats.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:

roddersm wrote:Notch if McFadden's most dangerous weapon is the outside break then we're in trouble because he didn't make a single line break or beat one defender against Scotland. If he can't beat Ansboro and Morrison then he won't worry France much.

Yeah, but he never got quality ball to attack with. Neither did Wallace or Sexton. Thats why I want to see more of these players, in a stronger team, to make an informed judgement on them.

Notch they got better ball than our backs usually get and certainly than the Australian backs got against NZ so that isn't an excuse. Good players should be able to beat defenders and make space.

We just didn't have the players, bar Trimble, to make linebreaks and changing the forwards won't alter that.

Have to disagree Rodders, not once were we able to move the ball quickly away from the rucks to give the centers enough time and space to attack. You can't lay all the blame for that on O'Leary, the backrow had their part to play in it. Hopefully Kidney will stick with the same centers and bring Earls and Bowe onto the wings and maybe Jones to fullback. But he will have to add more firepower to the pack to see any material improvment in the backs.

I think the ball was being sent wide before any Scottish defenders were drawn into the ruck to give a bit of space to the backs. Paul O'Connell does this all the time and it usually takes 3 defenders to stop him. He doesn't make much ground (which he gets stick for), but he does draw defenders in, which opens up a bit of space for the backs.

That is very true. We were constantly faced with a blue wall. We didn't commit defenders close in at all and offered very little threat around the fringes.

Sin I agree O'Connell was one of the guys we missed for getting us going forward, Healy too and our whole back row.

The problem was in the backline though too. Fitzgerald has nice feet and hands, as does Wallace but neither are going to run through people. kearney doesn't hit the line enough and offer himself and McFadden just wasn't big enough to make yards against the big scottish midfield.

We really missed Bowe coming of that right wing to take some of the focus of Trimble. D'arcy always seems to get us going forward too.

By and large, we have small, creative centres. We need to cut our cloth in a way that gets the best out of them.

That is to say, we need our pack to take on the responsibility of getting us going forward. Particularly the backrow.

MBTGOG wrote:
Missed two tackles according to the stats.

I'm not sure how accurate those stats are. According to them flannery, Hayes and horan did nothing despite being on the pitch for 20min.

I only saw two players bumped off in game and that was TOL by Walker and McFadden by Morrison (Wallace then brought him down).

Wallace defence was pretty much faultless that I could see. 13 tackles from 15 is a very impressive statistic and if someone is suggesting Wallace was poor defensively you have to question their judgement.

Just because someone isn't bumped off doesn't mean they didn't miss a tackle.

Notch wrote:By and large, we have small, creative centres. We need to cut our cloth in a way that gets the best out of them.

That is to say, we need our pack to take on the responsibility of getting us going forward. Particularly the backrow.

Notch the backrow has other responsibilities other than making up for the shortcomings of our centres.

There has to be "go-to guys" in the backs who can get us going forward as well, and we only had one on Saturday: Trimble. I mean your backrow can't take the ball of 1st phase all the time can they?

There's no point picking Paddy Wallace and then expecting him to be a crash ball merchant.

MBTGOG wrote:Just because someone isn't bumped off doesn't mean they didn't miss a tackle.

I don't know what you are saying Munsty?

I am saying TOL and McFadden were both bumped off and missed the tackles and that Wallace was not bumped off at any stage during the game.

Therefore what Lenihan and Wood are suggesting is completely false.

Not talking about Lenihan or Wood. You said he made his tackles all day. He didn't which is false like what you are saying Lenihan and Wood were saying.

I agree about too much kicking but could understand it as little else was working.

About midway through the first half Ireland went through about two dozen phases on the Scottish 22. The pattern repeated with the forwards making hardly any ground for a few phases then TOL spinning it to the outside backs who regain the ground lost in the pass back. The Scottish defence is always organised and simply won't miss tackles unless they are stretched or a mis-match occurs. It is up to the pack to gain a few yards, but more importantly force the opposition to commit more defenders and so open the possibility for the backs. At the rucks Ireland often had more numbers, but that of course meant the Scots had more defenders outside. Unfortunately the couple of times when Ireland did create space a pass went astray - Sexton to Kearney and TOL to Cronin.

The old adage that forwards win matches was very much in evidence as both packs effectively nullified each other, and so the match result was on a knife edge until the final minute. I've no doubt that had Ireland fielded a stronger forward lineup, they would have prevailed with the same backline on the pitch.

I thought he missed one tackle, I haven't watched the game again so I'm not sure if it was more or less. To be fair to rodders, he has a point.

MBTGOG wrote:Not talking about Lenihan or Wood. You said he made his tackles all day. He didn't which is false like what you are saying Lenihan and Wood were saying.

Munsty he did make his tackles all day. 13 of them which was more than any backrower and 9 more than Buckley.

What wood and Lenihan has suggested was that Wallace was the weak link in defence which is obviously not true because along with McFadden he was top tackler.

If you also consider that Morrison, who apparantly kept bumping wallace off only made 24 metres, which is the least out of any scottish outside back, it certainly tells you that Wallace not only wasn't the weakest link but the most solid defensively in our side.

My team for the next French match would be:

Court-Flannery-Ross
POC-Cullen
Ryan-Leamy-SOB
TOL-Sexton
Wallace-Bowe/Earls
Fitzgerald-Jones-Bowe/Earls

Buckley-Cronin-Jennings-Heaslip-Murray-McFadden-Kearney

BOD-ROG-Healy-DOC-Murphy to start in next game.

Not sure who'd I'd want at 13, I think Bowe. prefer him at 13 than Earls. Think Kearney needs to get more game time so I'd want him on early.
TOL needs time behind a good pack to prove his service isn't as bad as I (and others) say.
Buckley coming on to see if he works as a good impact player in big games
SOB being tried at 7.
Ryan moves to lock when one of the other two come off.

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:By and large, we have small, creative centres. We need to cut our cloth in a way that gets the best out of them.

That is to say, we need our pack to take on the responsibility of getting us going forward. Particularly the backrow.

Notch the backrow has other responsibilities other than making up for the shortcomings of our centres.

There has to be "go-to guys" in the backs who can get us going forward as well, and we only had one on Saturday: Trimble. I mean your backrow can't take the ball of 1st phase all the time can they?

There's no point picking Paddy Wallace and then expecting him to be a crash ball merchant.

But they also have the responsibility of making some yards. The whole pack does. I would like to see a back three of Kearney, Trimble and Bowe taking the ball on off first phase play; all guys who should be able to have gainline success. We saw Trimble coming in at first receiver at times and looking for work. Thats encouraging. We know Bowe likes to look for work as well.

For Ireland, the number of metres made by the backrow has been essential to every good performance we've had since Kidney took over. Every game. Completely absent on Saturday.

Paddy Wallace will take the ball to the line, present it well and recycle it if he plays 12 but we then need to be able to make yards off the subsequent phase.

And most importantly we need our pack to commit defenders. We never committed anyone. Our pack left the backs witha nearly impossible task off structured phase play. Slow ball, organised defence. Making our backline look a lot less incisive than it actually can be.

The Great Aukster wrote: At the rucks Ireland often had more numbers, but that of course meant the Scots had more defenders outside.

Thats a good point Aukster. I remember watching the game and thinking that whilst it was great that we were disrupting Scottish ball, that we had a tendency to over commit at the rucks, when there was no chance of a turnover.

That's a dangerous game to play and left us short of numbers at times. In contrast the AB's never commit too many to the rucks unless the ball is there to be won and then they pile in.

Notch wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:By and large, we have small, creative centres. We need to cut our cloth in a way that gets the best out of them.

That is to say, we need our pack to take on the responsibility of getting us going forward. Particularly the backrow.

Notch the backrow has other responsibilities other than making up for the shortcomings of our centres.

There has to be "go-to guys" in the backs who can get us going forward as well, and we only had one on Saturday: Trimble. I mean your backrow can't take the ball of 1st phase all the time can they?

There's no point picking Paddy Wallace and then expecting him to be a crash ball merchant.

But they also have the responsibility of making some yards. The whole pack does. I would like to see a back three of Kearney, Trimble and Bowe taking the ball on off first phase play; all guys who should be able to have gainline success. We saw Trimble coming in at first receiver at times and looking for work. Thats encouraging. We know Bowe likes to look for work as well.

For Ireland, the number of metres made by the backrow has been essential to every good performance we've had since Kidney took over. Every game. Completely absent on Saturday.

Paddy Wallace will take the ball to the line, present it well and recycle it if he plays 12 but we then need to be able to make yards off the subsequent phase.

And most importantly we need our pack to commit defenders. We never committed anyone. Our pack left the backs witha nearly impossible task off structured phase play. Slow ball, organised defence. Making our backline look a lot less incisive than it actually can be.

100% agree
Wallace took the ball up a few times off lineouts and scrums and he half dodged a tackle each time made a yard or two and went down immediatly but got the ball back quickly and cleanly. That is a positive action in itself as long as the next phase is quick, straight and aggressive.

Sin é wrote:Donal Lenihan's comments on the centres. He rates McFadden.

The other area that Declan Kidney will deliberate over is the composition of his midfield backs, especially with injury doubts surrounding Gordon D’Arcy and, less so, Brian O’Driscoll.

I like the look of Fergus McFadden and would definitely bring him.

He now has international experience in the centre and on the wing, along with being a frontline goal kicker.

Paddy Wallace, a long-term favourite of Kidney, was targeted all day by Graeme Morrison and Sean Lamont in defence and was bumped off on too many occasions. With the long-term Leinster pairing also likely to be absent for the game against France in Bordeaux on Saturday, I would like to see a bit of experimentation from Kidney, with Tommy Bowe given a spell in midfield for that game.

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/sport/rugby/time-is-not-on-kidneys-side-163549.html#ixzz1URL01a9R

Didnt know Lenihan was a "Leinster cheerleader".... anyway hes clearly another one with an unfair "bias" against Paddy Wallace (along with the other 3.5M Irish people out there)

roddersm wrote:Against France I'd like to see a backline of:

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Earls
12 Wallace
11 Trimble
10 Sexton
9 Reddan

Bench: McFadden, ROG and Stringer.

Maybe give McFadden 20 min at 12 with Earls.

I'd like to see jones and murray get a chance in this game. We know reddan is going to go and he will get the second french game and the england one.
It might be worth having a look at fitz at 12, he looked a lot better than he has in a while and 12 is probably where he is most suited to. A fitz earls partnership would be interesting and lievermont is likely to play the perpignan centre pairing which isn't going to cause earls fitz much problems defensively imo.

Are we doing teams for next week then?

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Sean O'Brien
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Jonathon Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Paddy Wallace
13. Fergus McFadden
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

16. Jerry Flannery 17. Tom Court 18. Donnacha Ryan 19. Denis Leamy 20. Peter Stringer 21. Ronan O'Gara 22. Andrew Trimble

I think this is basically our strongest team, bar the missing D'Arcy and BOD.

roddersm wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Not talking about Lenihan or Wood. You said he made his tackles all day. He didn't which is false like what you are saying Lenihan and Wood were saying.

Munsty he did make his tackles all day. 13 of them which was more than any backrower and 9 more than Buckley.

What wood and Lenihan has suggested was that Wallace was the weak link in defence which is obviously not true because along with McFadden he was top tackler.

If you also consider that Morrison, who apparantly kept bumping wallace off only made 24 metres, which is the least out of any scottish outside back, it certainly tells you that Wallace not only wasn't the weakest link but the most solid defensively in our side.

Morrison bumped/pushed PW out of the way for their try.

The centres were seen as a weak link defensively. Strangely enough, the Scottish are going to try and avoid Buckley's channel, particularly if there is an easier option going.

What Lenihan is getting at is that the Scots would feel a tackle from D'Arcy / BOD. Its not the number of tackles Wallace made, its how it made them. O'Gara (who also gets targetted) nearly always makes his tackles, yet he gets criticised for his poor defence.

Morrison bumped/pushed PW out of the way for their try

Are you referring to interference off the ball?

Notch wrote:Are we doing teams for next week then?

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Sean O'Brien
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Jonathon Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Paddy Wallace
13. Fergus McFadden
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

16. Jerry Flannery 17. Tom Court 18. Donnacha Ryan 19. Denis Leamy 20. Peter Stringer 21. Ronan O'Gara 22. Andrew Trimble

I think this is basically our strongest team, bar the missing D'Arcy and BOD.

Maybe start a new thread for it? Are there any french poster on this forum?

Notch wrote:
For Ireland, the number of metres made by the backrow has been essential to every good performance we've had since Kidney took over. Every game. Completely absent on Saturday.

Yes Notch and that is part of the problem and a fundimental flaw that Kidney has failed to address. We are blessed with 4 exceptional ball carrying backrows in Wallace, O'Brien, Heaslip and Ferris and we saw how ineffective we are in attack without them on Saturday.

Considering 2 of those guys might not have long left that is a real worry.

It doesn't take a genious to work out though that if you play 2 small centres you need at least two powerful runners in your back 3 no matter what your pack are like and on Saturday we only had one.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Not talking about Lenihan or Wood. You said he made his tackles all day. He didn't which is false like what you are saying Lenihan and Wood were saying.

Munsty he did make his tackles all day. 13 of them which was more than any backrower and 9 more than Buckley.

What wood and Lenihan has suggested was that Wallace was the weak link in defence which is obviously not true because along with McFadden he was top tackler.

If you also consider that Morrison, who apparantly kept bumping wallace off only made 24 metres, which is the least out of any scottish outside back, it certainly tells you that Wallace not only wasn't the weakest link but the most solid defensively in our side.

Morrison bumped/pushed PW out of the way for their try.

The centres were seen as a weak link defensively. Strangely enough, the Scottish are going to try and avoid Buckley's channel, particularly if there is an easier option going.

What Lenihan is getting at is that the Scots would feel a tackle from D'Arcy / BOD. Its not the number of tackles Wallace made, its how it made them. O'Gara (who also gets targetted) nearly always makes his tackles, yet he gets criticised for his poor defence.

Which is a load of crap, the last few times Ireland have played scotland darcy has struggled. Morrison is a poor player but darcy has found it difficult to deal with him the last number of times they have met for country and club.

roddersm wrote:
It doesn't take a genious to work out though that if you play 2 small centres you need at least two powerful runners in your back 3 no matter what your pack are like and on Saturday we only had one.

I agree. Kearney has all the attributes to do this, but doesn't, Bowe and Trimble can do this. I'm not worried. We have the players like.