IRB World Rankings ... Part 1

by Portnoy Mon 08 Aug 2011, 10:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Current World Rankings

IRB
http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

4Ns Round 1
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/fixtures/international.html

September 2012

Sat 15 Rugby Championship / Freedom Cup
New Zealand v South Africa, Dunedin
19:35 local, 07:35 GMT, 08:35 BST

nzl (on 92.43 points) at home -vs- rsa (on 84.20 points)

If nzl win by 1-15 points 0.000 92.43 84.20 No
If nzl win by more than 15 0.000 92.43 84.20 No
If result is a draw 1.000 91.43 85.20 No
If rsa win by 1-15 points 2.000 90.43 86.20 No
If rsa win by more than 15 3.000 89.43 87.20 No

Sat 15 Rugby Championship
Australia v Argentina, Gold Coast
20:05 local, 10:05 GMT, 11:05 BST

aus (on 86.62 points) at home -vs- arg (on 79.34 points)

If aus win by 1-15 points 0.000 86.62 79.34 No
If aus win by more than 15 0.000 86.62 79.34 No
If result is a draw 1.000 85.62 80.34 No
If arg win by 1-15 points 2.000 84.62 81.34 No
If arg win by more than 15 3.000 83.62 82.34 No

[ed]

Original post:

Pretty much World rankings provide both an 'official' balance sheet and P/L account of international bragging rights.

Sources:
IRB Rankings : http://www.irb.com/rankings/index.html
Rankings explanation : http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html
Rankings archive : http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/index.html

Online calculator (Courtesy of Robbo277 (thanks)) : http://www.lassen.co.nz/pagmisc.php#hrh

by Guest Sun 02 Oct 2011, 9:23 pm

If Wales wanted to shoot up the rankings why didn't they just beat South Africa. That would have done it.

Smile

by RubyGuby Mon 03 Oct 2011, 10:45 am

All in good time SAM all in good time thumbsup

by **Biltong** Mon 03 Oct 2011, 11:12 am

RubyGuby wrote:All in good time SAM all in good time

Well it has been a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time coming. Whistle

.........................2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010,2011.....................

by Portnoy Mon 03 Oct 2011, 1:05 pm

New official rankings:

pos/last week/country/curr points
1 1 0 NEW ZEALAND 90.62
2 2 0 SOUTH AFRICA 86.71
3 3 0 AUSTRALIA 84.84
4 4 0 ENGLAND 84.54
5 6 1 IRELAND 83.14
6 7 1 WALES 80.73
7 8 1 ARGENTINA 80.28
8 5 -3 FRANCE 79.72
9 13 4 TONGA 76.63
10 9 -1 SCOTLAND 76.2
11 10 -1 SAMOA 75.81
12 11 -1 ITALY 73.99
13 12 -1 CANADA 72.92
14 14 0 GEORGIA 71.09
15 15 0 JAPAN 70.45
16 16 0 FIJI 68.78
17 17 0 USA 65.63
18 18 0 ROMANIA 63.98
19 19 0 NAMIBIA 61.24
20 20 0 PORTUGAL 60.67
21 21 0 RUSSIA 60.54

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 03 Oct 2011, 1:39 pm

What's the potential points shifts this week Portnoy?

by Portnoy Mon 03 Oct 2011, 1:43 pm

Comparison of rankings before and after the RWC started(i.e at 05/09/11)

Not a lot of change - And despite that the seeding pots were set before the time of the RWC draw all 20 teams made it to the finals in the top tweny although Russia have dropped to 21 now.

curr pos/then pos/change pos/country/curr pts/then pts/change pts

1 1 0 NEW ZEALAND 90.62 90.55 0.07
2 3 1 SOUTH AFRICA 86.71 85.69 1.02
3 2 -1 AUSTRALIA 84.84 88.84 -4
4 5 1 ENGLAND 84.54 82.89 1.65
5 8 3 IRELAND 83.14 78.5 4.64
6 6 0 WALES 80.73 80.79 -0.06
7 9 2 ARGENTINA 80.28 78.4 1.88
8 4 -4 FRANCE 79.72 83.78 -4.06
9 12 3 TONGA 76.63 72.48 4.15
10 7 -3 SCOTLAND 76.2 78.83 -2.63
11 10 -1 SAMOA 75.81 74.54 1.27
12 11 -1 ITALY 73.99 73.88 0.11
13 14 1 CANADA 72.92 71.56 1.36
14 16 2 GEORGIA 71.09 70.3 0.79
15 13 -2 JAPAN 70.45 71.95 -1.5
16 15 -1 FIJI 68.78 70.83 -2.05
17 18 1 USA 65.63 65 0.63
18 17 -1 ROMANIA 63.98 65.69 -1.71
19 20 1 NAMIBIA 61.24 61.42 -0.18
20 21 1 PORTUGAL 60.67 60.67 0
21 19 -2 RUSSIA 60.54 61.92 -1.38

by Portnoy Mon 03 Oct 2011, 1:44 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:What's the potential points shifts this week Portnoy?

Give us a chance Morse.

by Portnoy Mon 03 Oct 2011, 2:03 pm

RWC Rankings potentials to quarter finals.

All countries playing on neutral territory except nzl.
Double points for RWC

Current standings (official)

pos/last week/change/country/curr points
1 1 0 NEW ZEALAND 90.62
2 2 0 SOUTH AFRICA 86.71
3 3 0 AUSTRALIA 84.84
4 4 0 ENGLAND 84.54
5 6 1 IRELAND 83.14
6 7 1 WALES 80.73
7 8 1 ARGENTINA 80.28
8 5 -3 FRANCE 79.72
9 13 4 TONGA 76.63
10 9 -1 SCOTLAND 76.2
11 10 -1 SAMOA 75.81
12 11 -1 ITALY 73.99
13 12 -1 CANADA 72.92
14 14 0 GEORGIA 71.09
15 15 0 JAPAN 70.45
16 16 0 FIJI 68.78
17 17 0 USA 65.63
18 18 0 ROMANIA 63.98
19 19 0 NAMIBIA 61.24
20 20 0 PORTUGAL 60.67
21 21 0 RUSSIA 60.54

Fixtures source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/fixtures/4776295.stm

Saturday, 8 October 2011
England v France, QF, 08:30
Ireland v Wales, QF, 06:00

Sunday, 9 October 2011
New Zealand v Argentina, QF, 08:30
South Africa v Australia, QF, 06:00

Possible Outcome /Rating Point /Exchange New 'home' Rating /New 'away' Rating / Will 'home overtake 'away'?

If eng win by 1-15 points 1.036 85.58 78.68 No
If eng win by more than 15 1.554 86.09 78.17 No
If result is a draw 0.964 83.58 80.68 No
If fra win by 1-15 points 2.964 81.58 82.68 Yes
If fra win by more than 15 4.446 80.09 84.17 Yes

If ire win by 1-15 points 1.518 84.66 79.21 No
If ire win by more than 15 2.277 85.42 78.45 No
If result is a draw 0.482 82.66 81.21 No
If wal win by 1-15 points 2.482 80.66 83.21 Yes
If wal win by more than 15 3.723 79.42 84.45 Yes

If nzl win by 1-15 points 0.000 90.62 80.28 No
If nzl win by more than 15 0.000 90.62 80.28 No
If result is a draw 2.000 88.62 82.28 No
If arg win by 1-15 points 4.000 86.62 84.28 No
If arg win by more than 15 6.000 84.62 86.28 Yes

If saf win by 1-15 points 1.626 88.34 83.21 No
If saf win by more than 15 2.439 89.15 82.40 No
If result is a draw 0.374 86.34 85.21 No
If aus win by 1-15 points 2.374 84.34 87.21 Yes
If aus win by more than 15 3.561 83.15 88.40 Yes

by RubyGuby Mon 03 Oct 2011, 2:16 pm

So all in all it looks like Wales are heading for 2nd spot in the world rankings soon thumbsup

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Oct 2011, 2:59 pm

RubyGuby wrote:So all in all it looks like Wales are heading for 2nd spot in the world rankings soon

You dont think theyll win the semi and final then to go top?

by RubyGuby Mon 03 Oct 2011, 3:02 pm

Probably lose in the final to a dogdy reffing decision, possible conversion that went over but somhow got disallowed thumbsup

by Smirnoffpriest Mon 03 Oct 2011, 3:10 pm

Cheers for this Portnoy - (your 1st name isn't Jeff is it?)

Interesting that after the Tonga game France drop to 8th, but if they beat England then they jump to above them (and Ireland or Wales).

it's crazy the impact each win can have.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Oct 2011, 3:19 pm

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Cheers for this Portnoy - (your 1st name isn't Jeff is it?)

Interesting that after the Tonga game France drop to 8th, but if they beat England then they jump to above them (and Ireland or Wales).

it's crazy the impact each win can have.

It reflects how close the teams are in terms of quality and results.

There isnt much to pick between England Ireland Farnce and Wales, thats why they are close on ranking points. Scotland and the Argentinains arent far behind. This is reflected in the ratings gap rather than the ranking position ( which peopel fixate on too much when looking at the table)

The Tongans are a bit over ranked mind.

by Portnoy Mon 03 Oct 2011, 4:32 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

The Tongans are a bit over ranked mind.

France 14 - 19 Tonga

Tonga up thee places from the start of the tournament, France down 4.

Higher clubs take a hit massively if they lose to a much lower side and the more the points get exchanged the wider the points difference between the sides before the match.

Interestingly Wales actually lost ranking points on the pool games.

Best I checked that result...

Nope - it's OK 80.79 on 5/9/11 80.73 today. That'll get a pint or two of gallic blood boiling after their 'group of death' triumph. Wink

by robbo277 Mon 03 Oct 2011, 7:23 pm

Win our match against France and England go third.

by Smirnoffpriest Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:42 am

True Seabiscuit - I think that's one thing that this WC has shown is how close all the sides are, even the supposed minnows have caused problems and been difficult when they've been given proper preperation time.

I mean out of the supposed top 4 (NZ, Oz, SA, Eng) England could have easily lost to both Scotland and Argentina, SA could have easily lost to Wales, Ireland beat Oz, Tonga beat France and would have gone through above them if they'd beaten Canada, and NZ didn't have any really strong challenges as France self destructed.

Also you can't really pick a clear winner between the quarter finals except for NZ.

I think this is good for the sport

by Portnoy Tue 04 Oct 2011, 1:32 pm

Whatever the wibbly-wobbies caused by freak results, the rankings table has always 'seemed about' right.

And anyway they will level themselves out over time.

The main debate for me should centre on doubling of points exchanges during RWC matches.

Is it designed to self-justify the IRB's RWC contenders?

I wonder if the doubling of points during RWC qualifying games creates an acentric view on the qualification justification.

Dunno...

by Portnoy Sat 08 Oct 2011, 8:02 am

Wales overtake Ireland and go fifth.

Well done boyos...

by Cymroglan Sat 08 Oct 2011, 10:49 am

Oh at least we moved up.

by Portnoy Sat 08 Oct 2011, 10:50 am

So long as my calculations are correct (unofficial software and Portnoy GIGO notwithstanding):

Wales 4th

France 5th

England 6th

Ireland 7th

by wales606 Sat 08 Oct 2011, 11:48 am

Portnoy wrote:So long as my calculations are correct (unofficial software and Portnoy GIGO notwithstanding):

Wales 4th

France 5th

England 6th

Ireland 7th

what about tommorow? With either Aus or SA losing?

by wales606 Sat 08 Oct 2011, 11:52 am

wales606 wrote:
Portnoy wrote:So long as my calculations are correct (unofficial software and Portnoy GIGO notwithstanding):

Wales 4th

France 5th

England 6th

Ireland 7th

what about tommorow? With either Aus or SA losing?

I think, if Aus win, Wales are 3rd

If SA win, Wales are joint 3rd with Aus on 83.21 (unless Aus lose by more than 15)

by Portnoy Sat 08 Oct 2011, 11:55 am

wales606 wrote:
Portnoy wrote:So long as my calculations are correct (unofficial software and Portnoy GIGO notwithstanding):

Wales 4th

France 5th

England 6th

Ireland 7th

what about tommorow? With either Aus or SA losing?

Possible Outcome /Rating Point /Exchange New 'home' Rating /New 'away' Rating / Will 'home overtake 'away'?

If nzl win by 1-15 points 0.000 90.62 80.28 No
If nzl win by more than 15 0.000 90.62 80.28 No
If result is a draw 2.000 88.62 82.28 No
If arg win by 1-15 points 4.000 86.62 84.28 No
If arg win by more than 15 6.000 84.62 86.28 Yes

If saf win by 1-15 points 1.626 88.34 83.21 No
If saf win by more than 15 2.439 89.15 82.40 No
If result is a draw 0.374 86.34 85.21 No
If aus win by 1-15 points 2.374 84.34 87.21 Yes
If aus win by more than 15 3.561 83.15 88.40 Yes

I always want to support local interest. Now do the leg-work.

by **Pal Joey** Sun 09 Oct 2011, 8:37 am

So, what are the current standings after this weekend?

NZ
Australia
Wales
South Africa
France
England
Ireland
Argentina
Tonga
Scotland
Samoa
?

by Portnoy Sun 09 Oct 2011, 10:32 am

Tentatively:
1 NZ 90.62
2 Aus 87.21
3 SA 84.34
4 Wal 83.21
5 Fra 82.68
6 Eng 81.58
7 Ire 80.66
8 Arg 80.28

by Cardiff Taffy Mon 10 Oct 2011, 11:20 am

Anyone know what time the IRB site updates?

by Cardiff Taffy Mon 10 Oct 2011, 12:24 pm

They've just been updated and your maths was spot on Portnoy, very impressive.

by RubyGuby Mon 10 Oct 2011, 12:30 pm

If Priestland had not missed that kick in front of the posts we'd be 3rd - I'll settle for 4th for now kiss

by Portnoy Mon 10 Oct 2011, 12:53 pm

RWC Rankings potentials to semi finals.

All countries playing on neutral territory except nzl.
Double points for RWC

Current standings (official)

pos/last week/change/country/curr points
1 1 NEWZEALAND 90.62
2 3 AUSTRALIA 87.21
3 2 SOUTHAFRICA 84.34
4 6 WALES 83.21
5 8 FRANCE 82.68
6 4 ENGLAND 81.58
7 5 IRELAND 80.65
8 7 ARGENTINA 80.28
9 13 4 TONGA 76.63
10 9 -1 SCOTLAND 76.2
11 10 -1 SAMOA 75.81
12 11 -1 ITALY 73.99
13 12 -1 CANADA 72.92
14 14 0 GEORGIA 71.09
15 15 0 JAPAN 70.45
16 16 0 FIJI 68.78
17 17 0 USA 65.63
18 18 0 ROMANIA 63.98
19 19 0 NAMIBIA 61.24
20 20 0 PORTUGAL 60.67
21 21 0 RUSSIA 60.54

Fixtures source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/fixtures/4776295.stm

Saturday, 15 October 2011
Wales v France, SF, 09:00

Sunday, 16 October 2011
Australia v New Zealand, SF, 09:00

Possible Outcome /Rating Point Exchange /New 'home' Rating /New 'away' Rating / Will 'home overtake 'away'?

If wal win by 1-15 points 1.894 85.10 80.79 No
If wal win by more than 15 2.841 86.05 79.84 No
If result is a draw 0.106 83.10 82.79 No
If fra win by 1-15 points 2.106 81.10 84.79 Yes
If fra win by more than 15 3.159 80.05 85.84 Yes

If nzl win by 1-15 points 0.718 91.34 86.49 No
If nzl win by more than 15 1.077 91.70 86.13 No
If result is a draw 1.282 89.34 88.49 No
If aus win by 1-15 points 3.282 87.34 90.49 Yes
If aus win by more than 15 4.923 85.70 92.13 Yes

by doctornickolas Mon 10 Oct 2011, 12:56 pm

Does the team that wins the World Cup automatically end up at the top of the pile?

Just seems that if we (Wales) beat France and get NZ in the final we are a long way short of their points total at the moment, so could we beat them in the final and still not end up top??

by RubyGuby Mon 10 Oct 2011, 1:07 pm

doctor - I'd be absolutely gutted if we beat NZ in the final and we're not the number 1 team, absolutely gutted thumbsup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 10 Oct 2011, 1:19 pm

doctornickolas wrote:Does the team that wins the World Cup automatically end up at the top of the pile?

Just seems that if we (Wales) beat France and get NZ in the final we are a long way short of their points total at the moment, so could we beat them in the final and still not end up top??

The double ranking points awarded for RWC matches are an attempt to ensure that the winning team winds up on top, but it's not guaranteed.

by Portnoy Mon 10 Oct 2011, 1:20 pm

" Re: IRB World Rankings

Post by RubyGuby on Tue 23 Aug 2011, 11:09 am
The world rankings only matter when your team is moving up them of course and we can gain brownie points off our foes on here - Other than that they are pretty irrelevant - Hold on! Wales up to 6th and climbing - of course they matter!!!!!! thumbsup

RubyGuby"

Make hay mate! Hug

by RubyGuby Mon 10 Oct 2011, 1:38 pm

Portnoy wrote:" Re: IRB World Rankings

Post by RubyGuby on Tue 23 Aug 2011, 11:09 am
The world rankings only matter when your team is moving up them of course and we can gain brownie points off our foes on here - Other than that they are pretty irrelevant - Hold on! Wales up to 6th and climbing - of course they matter!!!!!! thumbsup

RubyGuby"

Make hay mate!

I maintain my stance and appreciate the post - I dont however agree with double points for a RWC match thumbsup

by Cardiff Taffy Mon 10 Oct 2011, 1:45 pm

Doesn't it matter when it comes to RWC seedings? Although it's worked out well it would be nice not to have to play SA, FIJI and Samoa next time!

by irfon17 Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:12 pm

Have Wales ever been as high as 4th in the rankings before?

by RubyGuby Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:21 pm

irfon17 wrote:Have Wales ever been as high as 4th in the rankings before?

Yes in 2009 thumbsup

by doctornickolas Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:22 pm

Yes but only briefly in 2009

by whocares Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:42 pm

doctornickolas wrote:Yes but only briefly in 2009

you mean like only one week Wink

by maestegmafia Mon 10 Oct 2011, 4:59 pm

irfon17 wrote:Have Wales ever been as high as 4th in the rankings before?

Yes we were in 2005

by irfon17 Mon 10 Oct 2011, 5:07 pm

OK, next questions,

1. If Wales win on Saturday and they go 3rd, will that be a record for them?

2. Which NH teams other than England have been as high as 3rd (I'm guessing France but I don't know)?

by Portnoy Mon 10 Oct 2011, 5:22 pm

As in the OP, the archive is available at http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/index.html

And you can go back to 2003 ans check comparative performances at
http://www.irb.com/rankings/analysis/index.html

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:17 pm

I checked 1 archive at random, and France were 3rd at the end of 2005

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:26 pm

France were 2nd through late 2006-mid 2007 and reached 2nd again after beating the ABs in RWC 2007 (boo hiss).

Ireland were (briefly) 3rd in November 2003, but have not passed 4th since

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:48 pm

Cardiff Taffy wrote:Doesn't it matter when it comes to RWC seedings? Although it's worked out well it would be nice not to have to play SA, FIJI and Samoa next time!

The way things are going we could end up pulling SA as a second seed, samoa as a third seed and fiji as a fourth (or even fifth seed the rate they are plumeting diwn the rankings).

by HammerofThunor Mon 10 Oct 2011, 7:43 pm

I think Wales would end up 1st if they win. If you beat the All Blacks there will be a nearly 8 point swing

by Guest Mon 10 Oct 2011, 8:29 pm

Im sure but don't quote me, but in the final an even higher points exchange is on the cards for the lower ranked team,
Im sure i read that on the IRB website.

by robbo277 Mon 10 Oct 2011, 10:12 pm

I don't think there is a higher points exchange in the final. Nothing about it on the IRB explanation page:

http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html

by Portnoy Tue 11 Oct 2011, 9:41 am

robbo277 wrote:I don't think there is a higher points exchange in the final. Nothing about it on the IRB explanation page:

http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html

Equally there is another small matter in the mix: the 3rd/4th place playoffs.

No chickens should be counted.

by Portnoy Wed 12 Oct 2011, 3:02 pm

I hate to reveal this, but if Wales lose in they will probably immediately fall to 6-8th (before the 3/4th playoff).

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