606 Heavyweight Knockout Tournament

by Imperial Ghosty Mon 12 Sep 2011, 12:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

As randomly selected by Rowley, the heavyweight draw is as follows:

Quarter Finals

Louis beat Dempsey UD 15 (145-140, 144-141 & 145-140)

Ali beat Johnson UD 15 (148-137, 147-138 & 147-138)

Foreman beat Holmes KO 9

Lewis beat Jeffries UD 15 (149-136, 148-137 & 147- 138)

Semi Finals

Louis vs Ali

Foreman vs Lewis

by The genius of PBF Tue 20 Sep 2011, 2:41 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
The genius of PBF wrote:Rather have Young Towser back then Ghosty....

Not sure, did Towzer's ban details state that he might be allowed back if he stopped threatening to beat people up and refrain from using 'lol' in every sentence? If so, maybe that's something the mods could look in to.

Forgive and Forget...Im sure Towzers learnt his lesson and would be less aggressive this time...Him telling us Kevin Mitchell is ATG and Cotto would batter the likes of Arguello.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 2:48 pm

Union Cane would be a good man for these lists, he is the king of organising events!

I'd like to see them return, they're very interesting and thought provoking.

By the way, any of you lot ever thought about becoming detectives?

by **88Chris05** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 2:52 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Union Cane would be a good man for these lists, he is the king of organising events!

I'd like to see them return, they're very interesting and thought provoking.

By the way, any of you lot ever thought about becoming detectives?

Will be hoping to join the force when recruitment commences (maybe that should read 'if') Fists, will be sure to list my 606v2 achievements on my application form.

Don't suppose I could use you as a reference, could I?

by Scottrf Tue 20 Sep 2011, 2:53 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Union Cane would be a good man for these lists, he is the king of organising events!

I'd like to see them return, they're very interesting and thought provoking.

By the way, any of you lot ever thought about becoming detectives?

I could.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 2:57 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Union Cane would be a good man for these lists, he is the king of organising events!

I'd like to see them return, they're very interesting and thought provoking.

By the way, any of you lot ever thought about becoming detectives?

Will be hoping to join the force when recruitment commences (maybe that should read 'if') Fists, will be sure to list my 606v2 achievements on my application form.

Don't suppose I could use you as a reference, could I?

Of course, mate, though I'll be sure to tell them you won't be much use with the left hook if ever you were to be involved in hand to hand combat.

by **Union Cane** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 3:00 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Union Cane would be a good man for these lists, he is the king of organising events!

My hands are a bit full with the massively over-subscribed Prediction League at the moment, otherwise I'd have jumped at the chance to do something serious for a change.

by John Bloody Wayne Tue 20 Sep 2011, 4:02 pm

Ali v Louis
Although Louis is often underrated in head to heads, I don't give him much of a chance here. I think the naturally ability and "so wrong it's right" style of Ali would negate all of Louis' technical ability. Although he was the most technically correct boxer I can think of. I see Ali starting quick (at his best he set a pretty sharp pace and didn't let up for 15) and scoring a flash knock down early. As alluded to in the Louis v Dempsey discussions Louis' chin was questionable and could be vulnerable early. Ali's power is underrated in my opinion. He was just starting to sit down on his punches more when he got exiled. He basically KO'd Folley with the first really meaningful punch he threw.

I do agree with the concensus that Louis would begin to take some rounds through parrying and countering as the fight wore on, but the rnig would be made to look very large to him. If we're honest, Ali could hide in any part of the ring and be a shadow by the time Louis caught up. With a mouse developing under Louis eye they enter the championship rounds with Ali ahead, but not commadingly. In the 14th, Ali lands a crisp counter over the jab, staggering Louis and opens up with one of THOSE flurries. That blood lust killer instinct Ali possessed. The kinda thing that KO'd Foreman but opened up on a less exhausted opponent. Louis takes one too many unanswered lightning punches and the ref steps in. So at the risk of agreeing with Waingro, it's Ali by stoppage.
It might seem like I'm doign the Brown Bomber a disservice as I really do rate him, I just think Ali's style is hell for him more than any other. Add in the way Louis has looked at sea against lesser foes and I don't think he has the smarts to figure Ali out. Although a rematch would be very interesting. Louis was always better in the rematch.

Foreman v Lewis
Like many I see Lewis growing too comfortable behind the jab. The jab wins rounds for him early but he becomes over reliant and Foreman catches up with him in the sixth. Lewis can't hold on or push away a guy as strong as Foreman and gets pummeled along the ropes and dropped. Fails to rise in time.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 4:06 pm

Ali - UD.
Lewis - UD.

by No1Jonesy Tue 20 Sep 2011, 7:21 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Ali v Louis
Although Louis is often underrated in head to heads, I don't give him much of a chance here. I think the naturally ability and "so wrong it's right" style of Ali would negate all of Louis' technical ability. Although he was the most technically correct boxer I can think of. I see Ali starting quick (at his best he set a pretty sharp pace and didn't let up for 15) and scoring a flash knock down early. As alluded to in the Louis v Dempsey discussions Louis' chin was questionable and could be vulnerable early. Ali's power is underrated in my opinion. He was just starting to sit down on his punches more when he got exiled. He basically KO'd Folley with the first really meaningful punch he threw.

I do agree with the concensus that Louis would begin to take some rounds through parrying and countering as the fight wore on, but the rnig would be made to look very large to him. If we're honest, Ali could hide in any part of the ring and be a shadow by the time Louis caught up. With a mouse developing under Louis eye they enter the championship rounds with Ali ahead, but not commadingly. In the 14th, Ali lands a crisp counter over the jab, staggering Louis and opens up with one of THOSE flurries. That blood lust killer instinct Ali possessed. The kinda thing that KO'd Foreman but opened up on a less exhausted opponent. Louis takes one too many unanswered lightning punches and the ref steps in. So at the risk of agreeing with Waingro, it's Ali by stoppage.
It might seem like I'm doign the Brown Bomber a disservice as I really do rate him, I just think Ali's style is hell for him more than any other. Add in the way Louis has looked at sea against lesser foes and I don't think he has the smarts to figure Ali out. Although a rematch would be very interesting. Louis was always better in the rematch.

Foreman v Lewis
Like many I see Lewis growing too comfortable behind the jab. The jab wins rounds for him early but he becomes over reliant and Foreman catches up with him in the sixth. Lewis can't hold on or push away a guy as strong as Foreman and gets pummeled along the ropes and dropped. Fails to rise in time.

So Lewis will not throw any punch other then a jab? I take it you've cone to that conclusion from all those fights that Lewis only used his jab eh Whistle

by John Bloody Wayne Tue 20 Sep 2011, 7:40 pm

No, I haven't cone to the conclusion that he only uses his jab but anyone who doesn't think Lewis' prime weapon is his jab hasn't seen many of his fights. He had an educated jab and against dangerous opponents preferred to keep the opponent at arm's length with the jab.

He had an array of punches but I feel against a fighter of Foreman's presence he may be overly cautious. I wasn't giving a blow by blow, just a quick over view becaus Ali v Louis interested me more.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Tue 20 Sep 2011, 7:47 pm

Who's running this now Ghosty has gone?

by The Galveston Giant Tue 20 Sep 2011, 8:02 pm

prettyboykev wrote:Who's running this now Ghosty has gone?

Nobody at the moment i don't think Kev.

by No1Jonesy Tue 20 Sep 2011, 8:35 pm

Well I've seen plenty of Lewis's fights (more then once) and no I don't think his prime weapon is his jab! As prominent and educated it was the power in his straight right hand and his right uppercut right hook combo were his major weapons

Dangerous opponents this was utilised against... Ruddock, Tucker, Briggs, Morrison, Golota, Tyson and Klitschko to name but a few

Foreman would taste that right hand all night and IMO certainly succumb to it after being frustrated for 7 rounds

Also let's not forget Foreman himself labelled Lewis the greatest Heavyweight of all time - do you think he said that thinking he could've beat him?

by John Bloody Wayne Tue 20 Sep 2011, 8:52 pm

Lewis uses the jab much more often than the right, although I acknowledge the right was dangerous and Lewis has every chance of proving me wrong.

He would taste the right all night IYO. Well he'd find a way through IMO.
Did I get those abbreviations right?

I think Foreman never has a bad word to say about anybody and Lewis isn't the only man Foreman has named the greatest heavyweight of all time.

by Colonial Lion Tue 20 Sep 2011, 10:04 pm

Foreman also said that Vitali Klitschko would beat him there recently so I think you have to take these things with a pinch of salt. Frankly very surpised to see so many picking Lewis and tend to think its a reflection of a predominantly British board but I would be very surprised if Foreman did not start this fight as favourite and strongly favour him to win.

I would agree with some of the above coments in connection with Lewis' jab. I thinks on its own its overrated in terms of dictating a fight. Far too many examples on his record where the jab didnt dominate opponents or control the fight.

What Lewis was good at was mixing the jab with combination punching such as uppercuts and overhand rights which gave him great variety. But could Lewis keep Foreman at bay behind a jab for 15 rounds? Not a chance in my view he would have to mix it far more and if he over relied on the jab, like in the Bruno fight for instance, then he would get taken out.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 10:16 pm

Just looked back over some footage of the two of them...very tough one to call, but almost tempted to reverse my earlier decision of Lewis UD and go with Foreman KO9. The man was an absolute monster.

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:05 am

Tris Dixon of Boxing News says Ali and Lewis to win, due to them being the more complete fighters.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:38 am

Fists with the absence of Ghosty is it OK if I count these and move on with the final then the other weights.

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 8:40 am

Go for it, mate, that'd be good.

by No1Jonesy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:04 am

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Lewis uses the jab much more often than the right, although I acknowledge the right was dangerous and Lewis has every chance of proving me wrong.

He would taste the right all night IYO. Well he'd find a way through IMO.
Did I get those abbreviations right?

I think Foreman never has a bad word to say about anybody and Lewis isn't the only man Foreman has named the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Yep you got those abbreviations spot on Smile

Fists

On the back of your investigative watching of both fighters last night it also inspired me to do the same. I can't speak for everyone but what I saw of Foreman I can in no way see him beating Lewis more the 1 time in 10 and even that would be from getting through with a KO punch because theres not a chance in hell he'd ever win on points

Foreman is very very flat footed and telegraphs those monstorous punches and wild swings. The way he comes forward I think is nicely made for Lewis as that right hand will not miss the target

by No1Jonesy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:09 am

Colonial Lion wrote:Foreman also said that Vitali Klitschko would beat him there recently so I think you have to take these things with a pinch of salt. Frankly very surpised to see so many picking Lewis and tend to think its a reflection of a predominantly British board but I would be very surprised if Foreman did not start this fight as favourite and strongly favour him to win.

I would agree with some of the above coments in connection with Lewis' jab. I thinks on its own its overrated in terms of dictating a fight. Far too many examples on his record where the jab didnt dominate opponents or control the fight.

What Lewis was good at was mixing the jab with combination punching such as uppercuts and overhand rights which gave him great variety. But could Lewis keep Foreman at bay behind a jab for 15 rounds? Not a chance in my view he would have to mix it far more and if he over relied on the jab, like in the Bruno fight for instance, then he would get taken out.

I get what you're saying Colonial but in what other fight did Lewis only rely on the Jab ala the Bruno fight, and even in that fight he had the smarts to realise it werent working so he switched it up and took him out. Lewis is a pure pugilist and has the ability to adapt in a fight if what he is doing is not effective.

Also V Klitshko against Foreman would be interesting as we know Klitschko's whiskers are not found wanting so a Klitschko win isn't totally unbelievable

by bhb001 Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:15 am

No1Jonesy wrote:Also let's not forget Foreman himself labelled Lewis the greatest Heavyweight of all time - do you think he said that thinking he could've beat him?

Foreman was pandering to the home crowd when he said this. On the thread for questions to Foreman yesterday, this was basically asked, so an answer would be interesting. Foreman wins by ko mid rounds for me. Far too much power and pressure for Lewis to absorb.

by No1Jonesy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:47 am

bhb001 wrote:
No1Jonesy wrote:Also let's not forget Foreman himself labelled Lewis the greatest Heavyweight of all time - do you think he said that thinking he could've beat him?

Foreman was pandering to the home crowd when he said this. On the thread for questions to Foreman yesterday, this was basically asked, so an answer would be interesting. Foreman wins by ko mid rounds for me. Far too much power and pressure for Lewis to absorb.

I know - I was the one who asked it Very Happy

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:47 pm

I'm going to count this in Ghosty's absence later tonight so if you haven't had your say get in now.

Next up the Light heavies.

by Waingro Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:28 pm

Who wins the tounry? I reckon Ali beats Lewis in the final in a close fight on points.

by captain carrantuohil Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:35 pm

I reckon Lennox doesn't make it to the final.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Wed 21 Sep 2011, 8:30 pm

The votes have been counted.

Ali sails past Louis 14 votes to 1. The general consensus being that a Ali just had a bit more about him than Louis in a match up that would have been more fitting for the final.

Result- Ali UD

Lewis scrapes past Foreman with a points victory. This one really split opinion with the votes being 8-7 in favour of Lewis. The general consensus was Lewis to win by a decent UD with a margin of 4-6 rounds dominating Foreman behind his jab. All seven who voted for Big George felt he would knock Lewis out. The deciding vote was from Triss Dixon of boxing news-great work Fists!

Result- Lewis UD

I'm going to do the final on a separate thread so I can edit it.

by The Money Man Thu 22 Sep 2011, 2:29 am

Now no offence to anyone here and fully appreciate I will be banned come the morning but I do not wish my hard to be ruined here, all of this was done with the intention of us 606ers to come up with definitive lists, I could have used opinions of god knows who so the thoughts of someone on twitter should not be included. Quite simply goes against everything this was about, having spent hours and hours of my own time doing this would like a bit of respect for what I did, so in short either carry it on like it was intended or start over altogether.

by **Union Cane** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 7:41 am

Who'd have thought it...

Bye Ghosty...

by **Union Cane** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 7:52 am

I do agree with you though IG, these should be based on the opinions of 606v2 members, and indeed former members, if Bert Sugar joins the site we'll include his opinion but until then we should not base results on things people say on twitter or whatever.

by Adam D Thu 22 Sep 2011, 9:20 am

The Money Man wrote:Now no offence to anyone here and fully appreciate I will be banned come the morning but I do not wish my hard to be ruined here, all of this was done with the intention of us 606ers to come up with definitive lists, I could have used opinions of god knows who so the thoughts of someone on twitter should not be included. Quite simply goes against everything this was about, having spent hours and hours of my own time doing this would like a bit of respect for what I did, so in short either carry it on like it was intended or start over altogether.

As you said, it should be about the MEMBERS of this board to choose.

Until you change your attitude and obvious lack of respect toward the admin and mod teams who spend

hours and hours

of their time on here, you will not be a member of this board again.

For someone who has tried to lead people away and who apparently can't stand this forum, you do spend a lot of time coming back on to it.

by The genius of PBF Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:44 am

Is money man also Imperial Ghosty?

by **Union Cane** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:45 am

He was...

by Scottrf Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:47 am

We should use ‘Ghosty’ to describe posters that just wont die, and keep reappearing.

The genius of PBF is ghosty, Shenglong was a ghosty user etc.

by The genius of PBF Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:48 am

Union Cane wrote:He was...

No wonder...I was schooling him and coxy on the Vitali vs Haye thread...Cant say I will miss him rather have Towzer back telling me that I am a keyboard warrior.

by The genius of PBF Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:49 am

Scottrf wrote:We should use ‘Ghosty’ to describe posters that just wont die, and keep reappearing.

The genius of PBF is ghosty, Shenglong was a ghosty user etc.

Scott your a poor mans Fight News

by Scottrf Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:51 am

The genius of PBF wrote:
Scottrf wrote:We should use ‘Ghosty’ to describe posters that just wont die, and keep reappearing.

The genius of PBF is ghosty, Shenglong was a ghosty user etc.

Scott your a poor mans Fight News

My a poor mans Fight News what?

by Michaels, Sean Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:51 am

The genius of PBF wrote:
Scottrf wrote:We should use ‘Ghosty’ to describe posters that just wont die, and keep reappearing.

The genius of PBF is ghosty, Shenglong was a ghosty user etc.

Scott your a poor mans Fight News

That actually amused me.

by Michaels, Sean Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:52 am

Scottrf wrote:
The genius of PBF wrote:
Scottrf wrote:We should use ‘Ghosty’ to describe posters that just wont die, and keep reappearing.

The genius of PBF is ghosty, Shenglong was a ghosty user etc.

Scott your a poor mans Fight News
My a poor mans Fight News what?

That amused me just a bit more.

by Scottrf Thu 22 Sep 2011, 10:52 am

Michaels, Sean wrote:That actually amused me.

Not my biggest fan are you? What did I do?

by Waingro Thu 22 Sep 2011, 1:50 pm

lol this guy Imperial Ghosty says he hates the site so much and then says hes leaving keeps coming back with different names.

by **HumanWindmill** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 1:54 pm

Waingro, Imperial Ghosty has fallen out with the admin team over a couple of issues, and it is a damned shame that that is the case.

However, in the past he has provided us with very many superb articles and threads, and we should all be thankful for these.

by Waingro Thu 22 Sep 2011, 1:56 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:Waingro, Imperial Ghosty has fallen out with the admin team over a couple of issues, and it is a damned shame that that is the case.

However, in the past he has provided us with very many superb articles and threads, and we should all be thankful for these.

You have to admit its a bit weird for someone who tried to get people to leave and kept sayin how much they hated the site to keep coming back? I am not surprised he got banned tbh he was always getting in arguments.

by The genius of PBF Thu 22 Sep 2011, 2:08 pm

Waingro wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:Waingro, Imperial Ghosty has fallen out with the admin team over a couple of issues, and it is a damned shame that that is the case.

However, in the past he has provided us with very many superb articles and threads, and we should all be thankful for these.

You have to admit its a bit weird for someone who tried to get people to leave and kept sayin how much they hated the site to keep coming back? I am not surprised he got banned tbh he was always getting in arguments.

Always tried to act like a mod and spent 24/7 on the forum...whinging and moaning was ghosty

by **HumanWindmill** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 2:09 pm

The genius of PBF wrote:
Waingro wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:Waingro, Imperial Ghosty has fallen out with the admin team over a couple of issues, and it is a damned shame that that is the case.

However, in the past he has provided us with very many superb articles and threads, and we should all be thankful for these.

You have to admit its a bit weird for someone who tried to get people to leave and kept sayin how much they hated the site to keep coming back? I am not surprised he got banned tbh he was always getting in arguments.

Always tried to act like a mod and spent 24/7 on the forum...whinging and moaning was ghosty

None of us is perfect, PBF.

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 3:06 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:
The genius of PBF wrote:
Waingro wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:Waingro, Imperial Ghosty has fallen out with the admin team over a couple of issues, and it is a damned shame that that is the case.

However, in the past he has provided us with very many superb articles and threads, and we should all be thankful for these.

You have to admit its a bit weird for someone who tried to get people to leave and kept sayin how much they hated the site to keep coming back? I am not surprised he got banned tbh he was always getting in arguments.

Always tried to act like a mod and spent 24/7 on the forum...whinging and moaning was ghosty

None of us is perfect, PBF.

Speak for yourself, Windy!

by Adam D Thu 22 Sep 2011, 3:07 pm

I think I am pretty damn close too.

by **HumanWindmill** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 3:08 pm

Erm.........apart from Dave, that is.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Thu 22 Sep 2011, 6:50 pm

Can I just say I never intended to take Triss Dixons view on the fight just the members because I knew some would have a moan about it. The only reason I did was because it was a draw and in a knockout tournament that is no good!

by **Fists of Fury** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 8:53 pm

I fully agree with that, Kev. Makes sense, and it's not like he doesn't know anything about boxing.

We will do similar if we have another tie.

I didn't intend for his vote to be counted when I posted it, was just to let you know someones thoughts from the outside.

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