Post match discussion - Wales 17 - 10 Samoa

First topic message reminder :

Wales beat Samoa for the first time at a World Cup.

Shane Williams scored a vital second-half try to ensure Wales overcame Samoa's stern challenge in Hamilton to boost their hopes of making the World Cup quarter-finals.

Samoa led 10-6 at the break through an Anthony Perenise try and Paul Williams' conversion and penalty.
James Hook kicked two first-half penalties for Wales and Rhys Priestland a brace after the break.
Wales wing Williams sealed victory 15 minutes from the end.

Wales: James Hook (Perpignan); George North (Scarlets), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Paul James, Huw Bennett, Adam Jones (all Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Dragons).
Replacements: Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Gethin Jenkins, Bradley Davies (both Blues), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks), Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams (both Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).
Samoa: Paul Williams; Sailosi Tagicakibau, George Pisi, Seilala Mapusua, Alesana Tuilagi; Tasesa Lavea, Kahn Fotuali'i; Sakaria Taulafo, Mahonri Schwalger (c), Anthony Perenise, Daniel Leo, Kane Thompson, Ofisa Treviranus, Maurie Faasavalu, George Stowers.
Replacements: Ti'i Paulo, Census Johnston, Joe Tekori, Manaia Salavea, Jeremy Sua, Eliota Sapolu Fuimaono, James So'oialo.
Referee: Alain Rolland (IRFU)
Touch judge: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judge: Jérôme Garces (France)
TV match official: Giulio De Santis (Italy)

thebluesmancometh wrote:Dominic

I don't want my SH tackling around the ruck, and he just takes the place of a forward pushing them wider, but I do agree I didn't want tot see Knoyle come on, but thats prob due to Knoyles ability than size, now if Youngs was welsh...

I definately wouldn't use my squad against Namibia, 3 or 4 key areas at best, Davies for Alunwyn, maybe Powell at 8, Knoyle and 1/2p at FB, but if the game is secured I'd have no problem ringing the changes eatly 2nd hals, Burns, Geth, Jones, Hook at 10 etc...

Knoyles ability??,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wasn't he MOM last time out

Anyone else think that Gareth Thomas was a bit over the top in his analysis of the game? I don't know what he expected. It was always going to be a real test and we just had to get the W. You can't compare the SA game to this one. Look at ireland. They beat the USA by 12 and Australia by 9. It's competition rugby and it's all about getting out of your pool. Wales should now do this and a quarter final more than likely against Ireland will be a complete one-off. It was always going to be an arm wrestle. But we won and deservedly so.

I thought he's been good but the pack has been going a lot better than this wouldn't you agree?

Knoyle is far from top class, I like him, he's going to be a cracker but he is nowhere near the likes of Youngs, Parra, Du preez or Genia!!

Well, what a game! Absolutely draining.

Samoa are very big and very strong and much more professional these days.

The game was error-strewn, more on our side than theirs. Kicking the ball out on full, losing scrums against the head, losing possession when we are pushing their scrum back back at a rate of knots, poor control at line-outs.

The heart and spirit was fantastic though.

Halfpenny was superb and very brave.

Shane - what a talent he has for being at the right place at the right time.

It went right down to the wire, though. Gosh, guys, don't give the ball away in the dying minutes when the differential is only 7 points. It ain't good for my heart.

Blueman. . Apparently dwayne peel had a stormer for sale last weekend. Also I would definitely use the squad v Namibia. England have made 9 changes for Georgia. Scotland made 11. Namibia are r poor enough for us to see the likes of brew, Bradley Davies, knoyle or Williams, Scott Williams and burns start. We don't even need the bonus point, but I'm sure we'd still get it.

We need a bonus point win against Namibia so I would not make too many changes.
Fortunately we have a week between games plenty of rest time we need continuity by sticking to the same XV barring any injuries.

Namibia arent anything. Wales hav another toughish game against fiji in th pool, it would be insane not to rotate. Bonus points are only going to matter if samoa somehow beat SA or fiji nimprove enough to beat wales...wales neeed to focus on that game

Cymriglian.
I disagree. Namibia ARE that poor. Some of our fringe players need to play. People like Scott Williams needs more game time. We can then pick our strongest team against Fiji and then move into the quarters.

Cymro, if we win all remaining we don't need the bonus point as we'll be the only team on 3 wins (assuming SA win all 4)

Cymroglan wrote:Taylorman did the Welsh support surprise you ? and I agree with your analysis.

It was great wasnt it. They said 'thousands' of Welsh supporters were here for this. Amazing. The crowd was a sea of red and blue and to see all our stadiums full every match is surreal. I think Welsh fans here have still underestimated Samoa with some of the comments but with the Welsh and Irish efforts so far the NH is going to be well represented come knockout- we still have England, France and Scotland to make their moves. There isnt enough room!

This tournament just keeps getting better and better doesnt it?

Yes it's been a great tournament well organised plenty more dramas to come.

Taylorman wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:Taylorman did the Welsh support surprise you ? and I agree with your analysis.

It was great wasnt it. They said 'thousands' of Welsh supporters were here for this. Amazing. The crowd was a sea of red and blue and to see all our stadiums full every match is surreal. I think Welsh fans here have still underestimated Samoa with some of the comments but with the Welsh and Irish efforts so far the NH is going to be well represented come knockout- we still have England, France and Scotland to make their moves. There isnt enough room!

This tournament just keeps getting better and better doesnt it?

Totally. this is the best world cup yet by far. Great to see the lower ranked teams being so competative. It can only raise rugbys global profile

mckay

Isn't it a little Ironic, rugbys global profile would've been much better represented in Japan this year, the tournament wouldve been just as good, everyone just as competitive, yet the powers that be decided to appease the games power houses instead, keeping the community as tight nit and closed off as ever!!!

Cymroglan wrote:We need a bonus point win against Namibia so I would not make too many changes.
Fortunately we have a week between games plenty of rest time we need continuity by sticking to the same XV barring any injuries.

Good point Cymru but a number of these lads will need a rest. They will be knackered after this match.

I'm so proud of Wales today, these kick off times are a pain in the backside though!
I was detrermined to stay in bed but I kept waking up because of the game, I did finally manage to get to sleep, though I ended up dreaming the game was cancelled and the Welsh team went back to Wales only for the referee to decide it should go ahead in doors out of the weather. Sadly I was the only welsh person available so I had to play for Wales and points could only be scored by kicking a fish over the goal posts so it was me against the whole samoa team
We did win 87-0 thankfully, though i have no idea how i got that scoreline because i cant remember kicking that many fishes

Either way I'm just going to get up and watch the matches from now on, because i cant stay asleep, and when i do sleep I really confuse myself

Waking up and thinking Wales won 87-0 is a good feeling though!

AlynDavies wrote:I'm so proud of Wales today, these kick off times are a pain in the backside though!
I was detrermined to stay in bed but I kept waking up because of the game, I did finally manage to get to sleep, though I ended up dreaming the game was cancelled and the Welsh team went back to Wales only for the referee to decide it should go ahead in doors out of the weather. Sadly I was the only welsh person available so I had to play for Wales and points could only be scored by kicking a fish over the goal posts so it was me against the whole samoa team
We did win 87-0 thankfully, though i have no idea how i got that scoreline because i cant remember kicking that many fishes

Either way I'm just going to get up and watch the matches from now on, because i cant stay asleep, and when i do sleep I really confuse myself

Waking up and thinking Wales won 87-0 is a good feeling though!

Did you combine with Hook to score any fish?

Oh yeah, about the actual game, I saw the highlights on the ITV website, the bottom line is this was a big psycological win for Wales, Samoa are a bogey side and this will of been a big boost to our team.
Now all we need to do is make sure is we dont lose to Samoa, especially if Fiji beat Samoa.

I hardly slept a wink I knew this game was going to be tough.

Alyn. Are you sure you weren't on the speckled hen last night!?!?!?

manofgwent wrote:Alyn. Are you sure you weren't on the speckled hen last night!?!?!?

Nope, last night I was at Rodney Parade sititng between a red head and a blonde, getting chatted up by the blonde.

I seen the blonde how much does she charge these days ?

Cymroglan wrote:I seen the blonde how much does she charge these days ?

Ouch that was a bit below the belt, lol

Lucky escape by Wales, who did well in defence, but looked second best in most other aspects of the game.

Samoa were certainly the more threatening in attack and were on top at the breakdown, at the scrum surprisingly as well. Lack of match smarts let them down in the end, not to mention the competition organisers for only allowing them 4 days to recover from their last match (it's a travesty the way the likes of them & Georgia have been treated), they don't have the squad depth to cope with that.

I'm a bit confused, Samoa should have won that game, were the better team and the lions share of posession and territory blah blah blahn yet the majority of the Welsh are patting themselves on their back. Yet when the same thing happened last week in the England v Argentina game the Welsh flooded this message board giving the English abuse for struggling to beat a lesser team. Pot kettle black.....???

wrfc1980 wrote:I'm a bit confused, Samoa should have won that game, were the better team and the lions share of posession and territory blah blah blahn yet the majority of the Welsh are patting themselves on their back. Yet when the same thing happened last week in the England v Argentina game the Welsh flooded this message board giving the English abuse for struggling to beat a lesser team. Pot kettle black.....???

Does it matter.

Well done Wales getting the result.

Haven't seen the game yet. Well done Wales on a great win. Thats you guys with one foot in the QF now.

wrfc1980 wrote:I'm a bit confused, Samoa should have won that game, were the better team and the lions share of posession and territory blah blah blahn yet the majority of the Welsh are patting themselves on their back. Yet when the same thing happened last week in the England v Argentina game the Welsh flooded this message board giving the English abuse for struggling to beat a lesser team. Pot kettle black.....???

Samoa were very good, they were tough up front, massive in contact and relentless in ambition.

Wales struggled to get a foothold, but they did exactly what SA did to us last week and skilfully sneaked a win. I take pride in that.

Re your thoughts on the Welsh reaction to the England vs Argentina match, I wasn't online but I presume it is because England struggled to beat a team that the welsh had easily beaten a fortnight before 28-13 with the argues putting in an equally dogged performance.

In all hhonesty I thought they were better than us in pretty much every area.

BUT as we discovered last week its about the final score, we will have to get a bonus point win againt Namibia and then beat Fiji but could still be close.

Bonus Points could well decide this group

bedfordwelsh wrote:In all hhonesty I thought they were better than us in pretty much every area.

BUT as we discovered last week its about the final score, we will have to get a bonus point win againt Namibia and then beat Fiji but could still be close.

Bonus Points could well decide this group

You are right, they were better, everywhere. but I don't give a toss. We got the W and that is ALL that counts.

And bonus points will count

Do you think Samoa are good enough to beat SA?

I think they will realise that if they win the group they will play Aus and if they are runners up they will play ire!

thank goodness that is over. our world cup is finaly on track.

well done wales.

powell was a worry. ryan to play 6 if lyds is out. 1/2p at fullback was streets ahead of hook. jd2 with another iffy game. hook to centre next weekend.

wrfc1980 wrote:I'm a bit confused, Samoa should have won that game, were the better team and the lions share of posession and territory blah blah blahn yet the majority of the Welsh are patting themselves on their back. Yet when the same thing happened last week in the England v Argentina game the Welsh flooded this message board giving the English abuse for struggling to beat a lesser team. Pot kettle black.....???

No because Wales arent better than Samoa.
They have played them twice at home in world cups and lost both, its not as if england lose regularly to argentina, they only lose when they tour there and dont have half a squad because of lions call ups.
It was a big win for wales today and we will take confidence from it.

All the pressure was on wales, and we gave everything we had against south africa so to win the next game is brilliant, looking at wales against south africa and samoa against namibia seconds it is arguable which team would of been the more tired, going into the game regardless of the turnaround and rest period.

with ireland beating australia it is now a good thing wales lost to south africa because if we can beat fiji, we will probably play ireland in the quarters, and that is winnable.

maestegmafia wrote:Do you think Samoa are good enough to beat SA?

no because samoa can only compete if they impose themselves against teams, you can rattle and beat up wales, you cant rattle and beat up south africa, their a nasty side, they will beat samoa easily.

AlynDavies wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Do you think Samoa are good enough to beat SA?

no because samoa can only compete if they impose themselves against teams, you can rattle and beat up wales, you cant rattle and beat up south africa, their a nasty side, they will beat samoa easily.

Wales rattled and beat up south Africa last week and Samoa just did that to us. Hence I think there is a possibility that they could do it to SA, they may even play better after this game, they will have had more rest than just the four days off they had prior to the Wales match...!

maestegmafia wrote:Wales rattled and beat up south Africa last week and Samoa just did that to us. Hence I think there is a possibility that they could do it to SA, they may even play better after this game, they will have had more rest than just the four days off they had prior to the Wales match...!

Yes but then Wales have pushed south africa close on a lot of occasions, the samoans wont worry the south africans anymore than the fijians did.

AlynDavies wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Wales rattled and beat up south Africa last week and Samoa just did that to us. Hence I think there is a possibility that they could do it to SA, they may even play better after this game, they will have had more rest than just the four days off they had prior to the Wales match...!

Yes but then Wales have pushed south africa close on a lot of occasions, the samoans wont worry the south africans anymore than the fijians did.

Based on what?

If Samoa are a better team than Wales, they beat Wales up front as you said before. And Wales were only one point worse than SA, surely Samoa stand a very good chance of pushing SA???

Until today Wales had never beaten Samoa at a RWC, so history has little to do with performance. Form has a lot to do with it.

Did anyone else get annoyed with the referring o the ruck? On quite a few occasions I thought Samoa seemed to come in from the side, or the tackler blocked off the supporting players, and on quite a few occasions they seemed to drive over an then go off their feet which is normally a penalty?

But besides that I thought we played very poorly! I thought we missed lydiate big time for his tucking and tackling skills! Is it me or does Powell just flop onto the side of the ruck!

dogtooth wrote:
thank goodness that is over. our world cup is finaly on track.

well done wales.

powell was a worry. ryan to play 6 if lyds is out. 1/2p at fullback was streets ahead of hook. jd2 with another iffy game. hook to centre next weekend.

Hook to centre was my view earlier, but having thought about it, I would give Scott Williams a go. JD is just not cutting.

Samoa are just unlucky that they are in such a tough group.

Well done Wales on getting the win - that was a banana skin if ever there was one!

Got to say though -

1. Hook ain't a natural 15
2. Phillips is still too ponderous
3. We're still weak at the breakdown
4. We still make basic errors in the set pieces

I posted last night that I've been a big critic of Gatland over the last 2 years but congrats to him and the team for the SA performance. I'll say it again, points 2,3&4 have been apparent for years now - Gatland is STILL not getting these issues sorted out. I also said we needed to look after possession. It remains our achilles heel. WHEN will this problem of kitty weak performance at the ruck be fixed? I've had enough of our ridiculous turnover stats!

But it's a W! .....


....... Thank Grud!

Cymroglan wrote:Samoa are just unlucky that they are in such a tough group.

Yes but it may just do the two teams a lot of good as they will be battle hardened.

AlynDavies wrote:

Nope, last night I was at Rodney Parade sititng between a red head and a blonde, getting chatted up by the blonde.

what alyn fails to mention is that the blonde was wearing a leather jacket, had a pot belly and a beard...

anyway

have to say halfpenny in my opionion made a massive difference, i mena that try came from a high kick which 1/2p caught, ducked under a tackle and sprinted away (while sorting out his scrum hat!!)

priestland again did well not afraid to take the contact, shame about the DG and the kick on the full but he was trying the right things maybe just his unexperience playing a hand there, actually thought powell did well in defence a few clumsy mistakes but did ok.

also thought centers did well and north on the crash ball, well ouch.

thought the back row werent quite as prominent with turnovers at the rucks compared to last week but toby was carrying well again.

have to say though fair play to samoa they played really well and controlled the game at their tempo-
also thought the ref was ok although i thought a few dodgey decisions around the tackle area with players not releasing the tackled player before releasing but main thing is the win

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Well done Wales on getting the win - that was a banana skin if ever there was one!

Got to say though -

1. Hook ain't a natural 15
2. Phillips is still too ponderous
3. We're still weak at the breakdown
4. We still make basic errors in the set pieces

I posted last night that I've been a big critic of Gatland over the last 2 years but congrats to him and the team for the SA performance. I'll say it again, points 2,3&4 have been apparent for years now - Gatland is STILL not getting these issues sorted out. I also said we needed to look after possession. It remains our achilles heel. WHEN will this problem of kitty weak performance at the ruck be fixed? I've had enough of our ridiculous turnover stats!

But it's a W! .....


....... Thank Grud!

1) True, but Bryne is badly off form, Stoddart is injured and Halfpeny is a winger who is trying to fill in, and Hook has to fit somewhere.
2) Yes, but no scrum half has come in and taken his jersey, Knoyle has played well off the bench but was poor when he started last time.
3) we were good at the breakdown against England, Argentina and South Africa.
4) All teams are making the same errors though, its the referees and the laws of the game that make it a mess.

Some of the decisions were baffling today, If a scrum collapsed for any reason more often than not he would penalise the attacking side.

AlynDavies wrote:.
2) Yes, but no scrum half has come in and taken his jersey, Knoyle has played well off the bench but was poor when he started last time.

Knoyle was man of the match in an emphatic 28 point win last time he started.

Congratulations to a hard fought win Wales.

You did what needed to be done, at times things were a little hairy, but good teams come out of hairy situations and win when they have to.

I don't think Fiji will trouble you as much as Samoa did, so two more games to win and your quarter final is booked.

Thank you biltongbek

The lineout didnt function because they tried to be clever and overcomplicated things wheras against SA they kept it simple, second half we saw more front line ball and the stats improved.

Lydiates injury wsa a massive blow as we lost his tackling and clearing out at the breakdown. Powell played apallingly so either FHF was Wumming when he said powell played well, or he has lost his mind. Without lydiate Toby and Warbs werent able to play their natural game.

All in All a very nervous display, but we fronted up and got the result. Fiji are not the force the were in the last WC but again it will be a very nervous first 60 minutes; our lineout and scrum will not be tested as much by them.

When we come out of this group we will have put a couple of bogey teams to bed, Samoa third time lucky in a world cup and the Fiji game is now revenge time for France 2007. That should give us confidence going into a quarter final.

I loved that game. Two of the best games in this WC have been Wales matches.

I'd say that must have been uncomfortable watching for the Welsh, but as a neutral it was lotsa fun.

It was good to see us grind out a hard fought win over some quality opponents.

Thanks to Samoa for a great test match.