Post match discussion - Wales 17 - 10 Samoa

First topic message reminder :

Wales beat Samoa for the first time at a World Cup.

Shane Williams scored a vital second-half try to ensure Wales overcame Samoa's stern challenge in Hamilton to boost their hopes of making the World Cup quarter-finals.

Samoa led 10-6 at the break through an Anthony Perenise try and Paul Williams' conversion and penalty.
James Hook kicked two first-half penalties for Wales and Rhys Priestland a brace after the break.
Wales wing Williams sealed victory 15 minutes from the end.

Wales: James Hook (Perpignan); George North (Scarlets), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Paul James, Huw Bennett, Adam Jones (all Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Dragons).
Replacements: Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Gethin Jenkins, Bradley Davies (both Blues), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks), Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams (both Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).
Samoa: Paul Williams; Sailosi Tagicakibau, George Pisi, Seilala Mapusua, Alesana Tuilagi; Tasesa Lavea, Kahn Fotuali'i; Sakaria Taulafo, Mahonri Schwalger (c), Anthony Perenise, Daniel Leo, Kane Thompson, Ofisa Treviranus, Maurie Faasavalu, George Stowers.
Replacements: Ti'i Paulo, Census Johnston, Joe Tekori, Manaia Salavea, Jeremy Sua, Eliota Sapolu Fuimaono, James So'oialo.
Referee: Alain Rolland (IRFU)
Touch judge: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judge: Jérôme Garces (France)
TV match official: Giulio De Santis (Italy)

Samoa were very good, quality across the park. Awesome physical specimens, but maybe because they are used to dealing with other big strong guys, they missed their tackles on the little man, Halfpenny in this case. Samoa versus the Boks is going to be brutal.

ive just got back from a very wet sunday stroll. was chatting to my sons about who we thought was man of the match. although he only played a half we chose Halfpenny.

warburton led the men well and was in with a shout for MOM, but 1/2p's influence set the team on track for the win.

me and the boys loved the way he adjusted his head gear. that will be one of my best moments of the tournament.

dogtooth wrote:

me and the boys loved the way he adjusted his head gear. that will be one of my best moments of the tournament.

did find that bit funny, just casually sprinting past the samoan defence while sorting out his head gear, i think he is starting fullback for next game- hook is a good player but halfpenny offered so much more in attack and was good under the highball.

samuraidragon wrote:Samoa were very good, quality across the park. Awesome physical specimens, but maybe because they are used to dealing with other big strong guys, they missed their tackles on the little man, Halfpenny in this case. Samoa versus the Boks is going to be brutal.

Yeah I agree, Samoa were very good, espescially at the breakdown where the committed men and counter rucked ferociously. If the boks arent on top form they could slip up against the samoans, god knows what that would do to the group.

Just watched it on delay. Well done Wales, great win. That game was all about harvesting the 4 points so job done. I've been extremely impressed by the way Wales have been prepared for this World Cup. The team looks so fit and physical which is exactly what was needed for this group.

I think Halfpenny at 15 and Hook at 10 would be good call for the next match, and Stephen Jones and Gethin Jenkins should also get some time on the pitch. Halfpenny did very well in the build-up for that try, showing good strength and pace.

Really hope Ireland and Wales meet in a QF. What an awesome occasion that would be.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Just watched it on delay. Well done Wales, great win. That game was all about harvesting the 4 points so job done. I've been extremely impressed by the way Wales have been prepared for this World Cup. The team looks so fit and physical which is exactly what was needed for this group.

I think Halfpenny at 15 and Hook at 10 would be good call for the next match, and Stephen Jones and Gethin Jenkins should also get some time on the pitch. Halfpenny did very well in the build-up for that try, showing good strength and pace.

Really hope Ireland and Wales meet in a QF. What an awesome occasion that would be.

+1

i really dont think hook at 10- i am sorry but priestland has proved he is the number 1 10 in wales and although a few mistakes he is learning, i would put priestland on for first 50 minutes to build up some more confidence in attack and then give jones some gametime to control the game as we need him to close out games tbh

The vigilance and urgency that was there against SA evaporated this morning. I thought the players displayed nearly their whole set of flaws for all to see: inconsistency, poor finishing, complacency etc.

I'm not sure what we thought we were doing but too often runners were allowed to go without a single man in support, which was one of the reasons for the constant turnovers. Another will have been the fact that instead of rucking immediately, the players sometimes stood completely idle for a good 5 seconds before realizing they had to protect their own ball but too late by then

The handling was pathetic. Again, the ability to score tries was clearly there but the players were not capable of focusing for long enough to make possession count. Samoa needn't have tested us so firmly had we just taken some early chances but again, butchered to hell. As I said before, give the Samoans a sniff of being in the game and they'll put you through it.

Might as well head home early if we're going to perform as wastefully and cluelessly as that again. If even at world cups they can't get it through their heads how important it is to give it everything then I fear for the future.

I think we went out and played the exact opposite of the tactics we should have. I was thinking Fiji all over again. It was only on about 60 mins that we decided to do the things that served us well against SA.

Oh and I though Clancy was shocking.

Agree with knowsit and doctornickolas. Thought they had relapsed for most of that game and tried to force it a bit. Hopefully this'll be a lesson learnt and they won't make the same mistakes against Fiji (assuming 5 points against Namibia)

Surely the coaches words pre match were along the lines of go out there win and don't get injured.

Wales didnt step out of second gear often, certainly not playing at the tempo they did vs SA.

But Samoa were a very worthy opposition, no idiots in their side. I think the defending we had to do against them was creditable.

They must be man for man the largest, heaviest and strongest team in the championship.

Wales did very well to get through this...! Samoa are very unlucky to be in such a tough group as they are a better team than some of the second seeds in other pools.

Samoa would have a good chance of finishing second in any group and they are still in with a chance in our group.

if they take SA, the group would be wide open. They are going to be really fired up for that one.

just an observation from a neutral.

Well done to shane Williams for scoring that try, i also felt a lot of credit was due to you're number 12 (might be Roberts),he had picked that as the place to try to get into a hole for about 5 minutes previous....any thoughts?

aucklandlaurie wrote: just an observation from a neutral.

Well done to shane Williams for scoring that try, i also felt a lot of credit was due to you're number 12 (might be Roberts),he had picked that as the place to try to get into a hole for about 5 minutes previous....any thoughts?

Leigh Halfpenny initially started the move with Jon Davies (13) carrying it on before passing it back which Williams picked up

I've got a gut feeling SA will turn over Samoa by about 20 points. I think they've already given everything and won't be able to raise themselves again (a bit like Wales did against SA as shown with the poor showing today).

Won't be surprised if SA lose to Samoa and those two go through

Gatts wrote:Won't be surprised if SA lose to Samoa and those two go through

I honestly don't think that will happen, SA is finding momentum, the rust is gone and their players bar fourie du Preez is finding form. We will see an even more improving performance from the boks.

If we had one centre who could pass I would be a lot happier.

no doubt biltong but i still wouldn't be surprised.

Apparently James Haskell wants individual players singled out.

I for one think this is a great idea

ANDY POWELL....

The guy has just come out saying that Wales need to be more clinical. Says he enjoyed it and 'played like a 6 should' , loose around the rucks apparently, apparently the Fijians aren't going to lie down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14963720.stm

How is this for clinical Powelly....

You are officially a waste of space, i am more than willing to start a kitty, say a score each, to pay for his (business class) flight home. I will personally pay for a chauffered golf cart to pick him up at heathrow and drive him to the walkabout in Shepherds Bush where he can continue practising his rucking skills because he is, totally, and utterly rubbish.

Any takers?

SA will not lose to Samoa, it won't even be close.

Samoa are a confidence team, their gameplay relies heavily on intensity... give them an opening and they will be all over you... but with no air in their lungs they are just not the same team.
One thing about SA is that they don't back down, they don't shy away. Like England they are a tournament team and have players who know how to grind out victories.

Back to Samoa, today was their pool decider, we know it, they know it. They lost today and with it in all probability qualifitication for the RWC KO stages. Fiji are not the side they were 4 years ago, Wales won't suffer the same defeat.

In terms of people not understanding how Wales could go from near beating the boks one week then being taken to the wire to Samoa the next, its pretty simple really.

Against SA they were underdogs, their was no pressure as they weren't expected to win (no matter how much they told themselves this). They also had another shot at qualification if they lost.

Against Samoa they were the higher ranked team, had beaten them in their last outing and were favourites esp. after their bok performance. If they lost they were out.... it was a KO match in all bar name.

The difference in mentality and pressure in huge and often turns world class talented individuals into club players.
If they want to beat Ireland though they will have to seize the moment like they couldn't against the boks... IRE did what Wales didn't, they truly believed rather than hoped for the best.

Having just watched Englands patchy win over Georgia,when England pulled away in last 20,France vCanada and Wales v Samoa.I`m wondering how much the 4 day turn around for tier2 teams is effecting the results,
IF all sides had to do it fair enough,,of all the tier2 sides Samoa have the best pedigree.
Wales played very well in a must win match,BUT so did Samoa .
The Boks will be very glad to take any win over them,a more conservative game plan than versus Fiji may be required.
Wales have done the hard work,now just concentrate on qualifying then take it from there.

You cant compare different matches and then judge the sides determination to win.
Wales probably would have beaten Australia convincingly if they played them with the same intensity that they did against South Africa but nobody can prove it.

Cymroglan wrote:You cant compare different matches and then judge the sides determination to win.
Wales probably would have beaten Australia convincingly if they played them with the same intensity that they did against South Africa but nobody can prove it.

i can see how you came to that conclusion

Actually that was a compliment to South Africa

fa0019
ok your entitled to your opinion,but how can you possibly know if wales truly believed or not? your guessing, also the effort wales put into the boks game left me with the impression they thought they could win.

Yep. And they still have a slight chance too.

Well played Wales a great performance against a monster of a team that punished Australia in their back yard a few weeks ago. Of course we can play better but today was a great performance and we kept our heads when things were getting tough showing a lot of patience and maturity. There were errors in the setpiece, however When the chips were down the boys came through against formidable opponents.

this samoan team would hold their own in the six nations.

mr-bryns-attitude wrote:this samoan team would hold their own in the six nations.

They've just beaten Australia away so isn't that statement a bit obvious Mr Bryn

mr-bryns-attitude

Well 2 reasons really.

Since 05 Wales have had a wealth of talent which most teams (inc. SH ones) would dream for.

Henson, Hook, G. Jenkins, R. Jones, Peel, Phillips, S. Williams, J. Roberts, L. Bryne... the list goes a long way.

Yet the above generation out of 20+ games (most at home also) they have played against 3N opposition they have won just 2.

If a mentally tough team like ENG had the above wealth of talent they would have won probably half of those 20 matches.

Sure its subjective.. everything is. But look at it another way... Scotland have had 2 victories in the last 2 years against 3N teams..... now would you say Scotland have the talent pool to match Wales?

Also before the SA match Gareth Thomas was punditing on ITV... if I recall he said something along the lines of.... Wales are a small nation, we're not expected to compete, win etc. Now that was your captain up to 07 and one of your recent greats but here he was saying Wales shouldn't expect to compete with the likes of the boks.
He has as good an insight into the welsh camp/mentality as anyone would do and if a great past player like Thomas says it... I'd say its valid.

"If a mentally tough team like ENG had the above wealth of talent they would have won probably half of those 20 matches."

That would be the same mentally tough 2011 Grand Slam champions in waiting who just had a mild hiccup in Ireland

fa0019 wrote:

Also before the SA match Gareth Thomas was punditing on ITV... if I recall he said something along the lines of.... Wales are a small nation, we're not expected to compete, win etc. Now that was your captain up to 07 and one of your recent greats but here he was saying Wales shouldn't expect to compete with the likes of the boks.
He has as good an insight into the welsh camp/mentality as anyone would do and if a great past player like Thomas says it... I'd say its valid.

It's a real problem, and the old cliche "Wales can beat anyone on their day." We need to stop celebrating mediocrity and expect to win. The public are as much at fault as the players, as it seems that we're happy being gallant losers. We should expect to win, and to win a decent percentage of times, against any team in the world. The Welsh team has under performed for years.

This is why it was heartening to win today. An ugly win, but we did what we had to do, scored the points we needed, and took the win. We need to do that more often. I don't care if it's not the most convincing win in the world, as long as it's a win.

mr-bryns-attitude

Well 2 reasons really.

Since 05 Wales have had a wealth of talent which most teams (inc. SH ones) would dream for.

Henson, Hook, G. Jenkins, R. Jones, Peel, Phillips, S. Williams, J. Roberts, L. Bryne... the list goes a long way.

Yet the above generation out of 20+ games (most at home also) they have played against 3N opposition they have won just 2.

If a mentally tough team like ENG had the above wealth of talent they would have won probably half of those 20 matches.

Sure its subjective.. everything is. But look at it another way... Scotland have had 2 victories in the last 2 years against 3N teams..... now would you say Scotland have the talent pool to match Wales?

Also before the SA match Gareth Thomas was punditing on ITV... if I recall he said something along the lines of.... Wales are a small nation, we're not expected to compete, win etc. Now that was your captain up to 07 and one of your recent greats but here he was saying Wales shouldn't expect to compete with the likes of the boks.
He has as good an insight into the welsh camp/mentality as anyone would do and if a great past player like Thomas says it... I'd say its valid.

Clearly Welsh mentality is an issue but i wouldn't take anything from GT comments; he always had a huge chip on his shoulder about Wales and struggled under the pressure of captaincy. I think we miss rugby brains on the park, especially when SJ is not there. the great sides have several Capts, a good example is england 2003 with Leonard, Jonners, Dallaglio, Greenwood, Dawson. we lack characters of that calibre. i think our problem is between the ears, not necessarily some inferiority complex

I thought there was little wrong with our mentality today - it looked pretty strong under immense pressure and we took the points available and never looked to panic even when behind - Alfie has to be the worse rugby pundit I've ever heared - he's clueless - shame really

All I have heard all week is that the Samoans were going to walk all over us and deep down I thought we were going to struggle at time containing their big boys.
In all honesty I was impressed in how we contained them nobody was shy in tackling them.

fa0019
when thomas was involved in the welsh set up that may have been the case!imo it's no longer the case,we will just have to agree to disagree.

rubyguby,
samoa beat an under strength aussie team in a pre world cup friendly,so i wouldn't say it was an obvious statement.

Gareth Thomas would be in army terms a 'Barrack-room lawyer' A barrack-room lawyer is a person who gives opinions on things they are not currently qualified to speak about.

mr-bryns-attitude

If its not the case I would like to know the evidence for this... post GT 15 matches vs. 3N has resulted in 1 sole victory... the worst record of all 5N (no Italy) teams since the last RWC.

I don't deny it can't end here at this RWC... perhaps they can take positives from the bok match like they seemingly haven't before.

I like your positive attiitude anyhow.

Before the rwc i highlighted the importance of more streetwise in the lineout, and plain and simple just secure the ball, samoa gave us a lesson in using different numbers in the line at appropriate times. who is coaching our lineout? they should give up the day job!!

Samoa are no mugs,all there players have Super 15 or top Nh club rugby
experience.The days when the big 8 put 60+points on them is gone,a disallowed try[for a double movement]for Samoa was the difference.
The best results for NH sides were by teams who played no Rugby Bok style.Wales narrow defeat,and Irelands win.
The ideal situation would be a two tier 4Ns,and Super rugby set up for
Pacific islands and Japan.
That won`t happen because NH based players won`t want to take wage cuts to play in SH.
Cash over Country same old paradox,suffice to say there is a lot of rugby still to play.More surprises still to come.Samoa realistically should`nt have beaten Wales.Only history said they could,and a win over a Aussie B side who expected a walk in the park.Should`nt have beaten taken as evidence.

Funny that Alan, Samoa's last 2 wins over Wales in World cups and the win over Oz were exactly the reason Samoa could have won this match, and nearly did. What other evidence did support as close a match if that didn't?

'Samoa realistically should`nt have beaten Wales'....really? Can't see how that conclusion is drawn...at all..

Same reason people are picking France to beat NZ this weekend- well I know that 'realistically' aint gonna happen. Doesnt stop many saying it.

And with an easier 8 to go to after the Oz loss- France will have kissed this match goodbye already. And if they have- I hope our firsts give their seconds the biggest thrashing in Rugby history to rub it in.

You want to play NZ in front of 60,000 people and bring your seconds? Well we'll make sure the embarrassment lasts forever is my feeling on it.

You can't tell who the first or 2nd team are with France and IMO any team they put out will give NZ a difficult game

taylorman
I saw a lot of positives in Wales , in the way they played the South africa game, and that combined with they fact that samoa played the game against Namibia at a huge cost (Pisi) especially.I thought it was most relitic that Wales would come out on the right side of the ledger.
On the other note if france want to throw the game against New zealand,they are more than welcome whether its 60,000 or 6.

Yes but its whether the team wants to win it is the point... this has the potential to be embarrassing to France is what I'm saying, and that we should make it so if they front without the full team.

Happened to us in 07 with Scotland and 3 months earlier France also sent a second team to NZ pre World cup, so (and only if they do mind you) ...stuff 'em I say... THRASH 'EM!!!!!! and make the first team and theyre countrymen watch their seconds get pummeled!

Yes and if Pisi had have played and Samoa got the same lead in time as Wales (4 days as opposed to 8) - the result could have been different... not saying they would have won...but it couold have made the difference.

I did like Wales as well and they'll do well with the structured approach...half way thru second half I knew theyd win it as they maintained their composure brilliantly I thought. Thats the mark of a good team...

fa00019

I think you have raised a valid point that niggles away at all Welsh supporters. In doing so you have probably revived this thread. Thanks...!

We do have a poor record under pressure, we do have a poor record as favourites and we do have a poor record against the southern hemisphere teams.

So much so that a close game is seen as a moral victory.

I said a long time ago that when the welsh won Grandslams in 05 an 08 the players looked more surprised than the fans.

Less so in 08, and that is the key.

Things are changing and the massive influx of talented young players Gatland has brought into his squad has refreshed the team remarkably. The mentality is refreshing as well.

The team will take a lot from this match against Samoa in confidence.

More importantly the analysts will take a huge amount of information and we have eight days to work on improvements before Namibia and another week until the big crunch game against Fiji.

The players should be aiming to equal or better what SA did to Fiji and should try and post an All Black-esq cricket score on Namibia should we be looking to do well in the later stages of this RWC.