Scotland vs England - Match Thread - Team News - etc...

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

How the teams line up

England team: B Foden; C Ashton, M Tuilagi, M Tindall, D Armitage; J Wilkinson, B Youngs; M Stevens, S Thompson, D Cole, L Deacon, C Lawes, T Croft, L Moody (capt), J Haskell.

Replacements: D Hartley, A Corbisiero, T Palmer, N Easter, R Wigglesworth, T Flood, M Banahan.

Scotland team: C Paterson; M Evans, J Ansbro, S Lamont, S Danielli; R Jackson, M Blair; A Jacobsen, R Ford, E Murray, R Gray, A Kellock (capt), A Strokosch , J Barclay, R Vernon.

Replacements: S Lawson, A Dickinson, N Hines, R Rennie, C Cusiter, D Parks, N De Luca.



Last 10 meetings

2011 England 22 - 16 Scotland
2010 Scotland 15 - 15 England
2009 England 26 - 12 Scotland
2008 Scotland 15 - 9 England
2007 England 42 - 20 Scotland
2006 Scotland 18 - 12 England
2005 England 43 - 22 Scotland
2004 Scotland 13 - 35 England
2003 England 40 - 9 Scotland
2002 Scotland 3 - 29 England

England 7 - Scotland 2 - Draw 1

England 273 pts - Scotland 143 pts


IMO on paper the Scots might as well start packing their bags, but I have a strange feeling they might just pull it off, Chris Paterson will have plenty of shots at goal if England continue getting penalised at the breakdown and we all know what that means, he very rarely misses unless his wearing cherry and White!

Or am I being silly?


RWC so far

England

Argentina 9 - 13 England
England 41 - 10 Georgia
England 67 - 3 Romania

England PF 121 pts - PA 22pts


Scotland

Scotland 34 - 24 Romania
Scotland 15 - 6 Georgia
Argentina 13 - 12 Scotland

Scotland PF 61 - PA 43


Missed this one,

England 17 tries to Scotlands 4



Discuss

[TheGreyGhost]

Yes, he hasn't played up to his usual standard yet but form is temporary and class is permanent ...

Can you remind me when he *was* in form? I can't recall him ever doing anything of note.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

For a back 3 that are struggling in attack these guys sure have been scoring a lot of tries. Yes they weent in the game much against Argentina but that was as much down to the forwards and others not getting them field position and space to exploit. Most of their running was done form return kicks, they still made some good yards.
The last time England had a unit remotly this potent was the Cueto Monye Armitage combination pre Lions. Add in Youngs and Tuilagi and its easy to see why when the forwards get them good ball England score tries.

I think they have bigger issues to worry about in the side than Foden Armitage ( who was lucky to tour at all but repaid Johnsons faith) and Ashton.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Yes, he hasn't played up to his usual standard yet but form is temporary and class is permanent ...

Can you remind me when he *was* in form? I can't recall him ever doing anything of note.

England didnt lose to the All Blacks quite as badly as usual with him in the side...?

[RubyGuby]

Peter Bills: Ben Foden provides quandary for England



For the outstanding Ben Foden to finish up on the losing side was cruel. It
was Foden who had cut down Brian O’Driscoll when he burst clean through the
Northampton defence in the first half. The full-back’s speed closed down the opening and flattened O’Driscoll in a trice.


Foden’s courage and spring-heeled jumps to catch the downfield ‘bombs’, was
superb. On every occasion, he gathered cleanly and dealt highly
efficiently with the threat.
Few full-backs in world rugby right now can match all Ben Foden’s talents.

[TheGreyGhost]

Apparently not ^outstanding^ enough to win.

[RubyGuby]

Yeah, I think the other 14 might have played a part in that aswell. Now we're at it I think your number 2 Fly Half Slade is the worse All Black Ive seen in over 40 years - What is the guy doing in that squad - he's useless - I'd rather shove one of the talented backs there than play with that liability

[rodders]

It was Foden who had cut down Brian O’Driscoll when he burst clean through the
Northampton defence in the first half. The full-back’s speed closed down the opening and flattened O’Driscoll in a trice.

I'm not sure that taking down a limping OAP from behind is something to celebrate.

[robbo277]

Skinning the best defensive centre in Europe (twice) was impressive though...

[RubyGuby]

Well he wasn't celebrating for long was he - I can't stand the twxt but he's a class player

[doctor_grey]

Lordie mama!
8 pages of comments and we are still 2 days away. Talk about getting pumped in advance.

Here's medical advice to my Scotland and England friends:
Don't overhype and over prepare too far in advance of the match - I don't want you blowing your wad too early. Then you'll sit there idly watchcing the match with a slight drool when you should properly be pulling your hair out, foaming at the mouth and pasting yourself to the ceiling.

Make sure you are watching the match in a safe place - far from anything breakable

Always have your medication close at hand - In its proper and most pure form, it comes from a tap and comes in "pints". This is the standard dose. And it is pulled by an professional, trained expert. In emergencies it might be Ok to come from a bottle or a can (never imported from America or Argentina). Do not accept substitutes such as "wine" or "spritzers". You will go to hell for that.

I am your friendly neighborhood doctor. I am here to help.

[TheGreyGhost]

Yeah, I think the other 14 might have played a part in that aswell. Now we're at it I think your number 2 Fly Half Slade is the worse All Black Ive seen in over 40 years - What is the guy doing in that squad - he's useless - I'd rather shove one of the talented backs there than play with that liability

C'mon, he's better than Donald.

I think you might find Weepu covering 10 in the event of injury initially, in a back line shuffle. We've got centers and wingers and full backs coming out of our plural R.

[Geordie]

"It's his petulance that leads him to act in a naive manner when he should know better. He gets frustrated and can't help himself."

So your saying that he's acting like a spoilt little boy by running the ball back instead of kicking the ball out....rather than maybe he's just not a 100% confident kicker. Okey dokey....

"something along the lines of "I didn't like Cueto scoring more tries than me, so I went looking for the ball to try to score some." Hmmmm....."

And you didnt get that as banter between two wingers...where the team spirit is obviously good.....

"Armitage just isn't international class. Sorry, but true.."

Well we shall see wont we...

[BATH_BTGOG]

Slade is out of his depth needs another year or two at this level at least, god help NZ if Carter picks up a injury.

[TheGreyGhost]

"It's his petulance that leads him to act in a naive manner when he should know better. He gets frustrated and can't help himself."

So your saying that he's acting like a spoilt little boy by running the ball back instead of kicking the ball out....rather than maybe he's just not a 100% confident kicker. Okey dokey....

"something along the lines of "I didn't like Cueto scoring more tries than me, so I went looking for the ball to try to score some." Hmmmm....."

And you didnt get that as banter between two wingers...where the team spirit is obviously good.....

"Armitage just isn't international class. Sorry, but true.."

Well we shall see wont we...

banter? true words, in jest, as they say.

Armitage...inevitably, yes we will, again.

Foden...I'm saying he gets upset and has a little tantrum and then tries to do something impossible, like fling a quite lineout throw to no-one, or a no-look pass under his posts, or an impossible run into the opposition back row on his own 22. The guy is a liability, and a flat track bully. No wonder he gets on so well with his outside partners.

[TheGreyGhost]

Slade is out of his depth needs another year or two at this level at least, god help NZ if Carter picks up a injury.

Much the same is true of many players on many teams, especially first five eighths. Agree that Slade is a little underdone, suspect that he'd go better with Weepu or Dagg taking the kicking duties. GH usually scans my posts for ideas, like my genius idea to play Kahui on the wing, following my suggestion to try Jane there are couple of seasons back. I expect we'll see Slade operating as a game manager sans kicking duties should he be needed.

[dummy_half]

I understand the anti- Foden ranting (particularly from the Irish):

Jealousy that he's the lucky B'Stard that's knocked up Una from The Saturdays

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Do not accept substitutes such as "wine" or "spritzers". You will go to hell for that.

[whocares]

the fact that McAllister is not in the RWC is still puzzling me... he's currently on fire for Toulouse, probably best player to play in France right now if not in Europe. is it because he didnt want to be the DC back up or just a young player development decision by GH?

[rodders]

I understand the anti- Foden ranting (particularly from the Irish):

Jealousy that he's the lucky B'Stard that's knocked up Una from The Saturdays

[lostinwales]

It's his petulance that leads him to act in a naive manner when he should know better. He gets frustrated and can't help himself.

Who are you talking about GG?

Armitage has been rubbish for a bit(and getting a couple of headlines for the wrong reasons) But in Lions year he was looking very good and should have toured. (Not that he would have done better than Kearney in the tests) And hes done a lot right and nothing wrong since the RWC has started.

Foden had a brilliant 6N and hes still a threat. Again I cant see exactly what hes done wrong so far but it seems the best option to have both on the field.

Cueto can be quite a handful as his game against Oz last autumn showed but I cant see he offers anything extra. I am still not sure why he was MOTM against Romania. Apart from actually being on the end of the pass I only think he actually had to work for one of them.

[robbo277]

NZ won't pick a player playing outside of New Zealand no matter how well he's playing or how much better he is than their home-based alternative, as it would set too dangerous a precedent in the future. What if Carter and McCaw then left and expected the same treatment that they had afforded to McAllister? Before too long there would be a mass exodus to the richer European clubs by players who would still be expected to get picked for the All Blacks and the domestic leagues would be considerably weaker.

The lure of the Black jersey is what keeps players in New Zealand over the lure of the pound or the euro, if they say to one player they can have both than a lot of other players are going to want both too.

[TheGreyGhost]

LM had his chance. He came back, he was rubbish. He broke his contract early to leave again.

The NZRFU moved heaven and earth to make it easy for him, but he's just not consistent. He can't step up to the higher level.

The same is true of Slade, Donald and probably Cruden; but until Anscombe has a few super seasons under his belt Slade was the best of the bunch (according to the selectors).

Personally I would have gone outside the box and called up Tomasi Cama.

[whocares]

tks for the insight - I was under the impression that Mcallister left because he knew he wasnt going to get the AB jersey anyway not really the other way around.

[TheGreyGhost]

Why has this drifted into NZ again? We're supposed to be discussing Scotland v England.

[screamingaddabs]

Why has this drifted into NZ again? We're supposed to be discussing Scotland v England.

To be fair you are on page 8 of discussion and the game's not for another two days. Is there much more to talk about between Scotland and England that hasn't been brought up already?

[alcoombe]

World Cup form for Foden/Armitage:

Tries 1/1
Try Assists 2/1
Metres Made 267/158
Clean Breaks 2/1
Defenders Beaten 7/4
Turnovers Conceded 3/6
Penalties Conceded 0/1


For those who questioned Foden's performance over the last year. In the HC:

Most metres made.
Most clean breaks.
2nd most defenders beaten
3rd highest try total.


In the 6N:

Most metres made, 503m (the next closest were Ashton & Lamont, both with 370m).
Most defenders beaten by an England player, 4th overall in the competition.
Most offloads by an English back.


If that's the sign of someone who is a poor option that "doesn't seem to do anything in attack", I'd like a few more cluttering up the side.

[Geordie]

Alcoomb....dont waste your time showing facts to them....they'll just find some other way to say hes rubbish....

[Great White]

According to HERSH, this isn't the NFL and stats mean nothing.

Here is the news HERSH, they do. You're wrong. Again. Unless of course you just don't like the guy and are basing your opinion on that. In which case, grow a pair and admit it, otherwise do one.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

According to HERSH, this isn't the NFL and stats mean nothing.

Here is the news HERSH, they do. You're wrong. Again. Unless of course you just don't like the guy and are basing your opinion on that. In which case, grow a pair and admit it, otherwise do one.

Is this your stock answer in debates?

Anyway, given how pathetic and mediocre Scotland are, we should expect a 20-point spread thrashing and at least 4 tries for England, would you say?

[Geordie]

"Unless of course you just don't like the guy and are basing your opinion on that."

GW i think this is what the whole thing comes down to actually - not just for this debate but for most others.

I think its the same with Ashton. People just dont like the guy...so he's rubbish , doesnt work hard, is arrogant etc etc.

He has a chance of breaking Lomu's try scoring record for a single tournament...but he'll still be rubbish...or it'll be the weak opposition etc etc

Theres many a person i didnt like...but i'd still be honest and say.."couldnt stand the guy...but he could play some..."

[Great White]

.Sports fans have asked Scotland that if they cannot be good can they at least be unusual. After a rugby world cup defeat to Argentina that was predicted in cave paintings from around 12,000 BC, many are now wondering whether Scotland could at least try to be dangerously bad at beach volleyball or even ping-pong.

While Eskimos may have 50 words for snow, Scots have more than 800 words for abject humiliation. There's 'goalkeepered', 'Gazzafied', 'Perued', 'utterly-Brazilianed', 'last-minuted' and now 'Argentinised'.

There comes a point at which it would be easier if the headline was a just a special symbol, like the Batman logo, but for total failure. The rest of the article could be just a big photo of somebody pale, looking hacked off.

Sport Scotland has now pledged to use its £4 annual budget to look at new activities for Scotland's 37 and a half athletes in the hope that, by some genetic freak, one of them turns out to be good at something.

The Scottish football team has already been given a surfboard and are currently trying to turn it into a bar. Meanwhile Scotland's top cricketers were asked to leave the Commonwealth Pool in Edinburgh after using it to deep fry a giraffe they had stolen from the local zoo.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

According to HERSH, this isn't the NFL and stats mean nothing.

Here is the news HERSH, they do. You're wrong. Again. Unless of course you just don't like the guy and are basing your opinion on that. In which case, grow a pair and admit it, otherwise do one.

Is this your stock answer in debates?

Anyway, given how pathetic and mediocre Scotland are, we should expect a 20-point spread thrashing and at least 4 tries for England, would you say?

+1

Has anyone seen the orginal thread?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

. No wonder he gets on so well with his outside partners.

Are we on to Mike Tindalls love life again?

[HERSH]

Great White this may shock you but I don't know Ben Foden, therefore I can't say whether I like him or not.

But what I can say is that having played a lot of rugby in my time, oh and watch a lot more, I've seen nothing at this RWC to say that Foden deserves the England No15 shirt, therefore I'd give Armitage a go as he seems to make things happen and doesn't just run sideways like a headless chicken until his tackled and isolated.

[screamingaddabs]

Great White please quote your sources - www.thedailymash.co.uk

Top quality made up news.

[ratmagnet]

.Sports fans have asked Scotland that if they cannot be good can they at least be unusual. After a rugby world cup defeat to Argentina that was predicted in cave paintings from around 12,000 BC, many are now wondering whether Scotland could at least try to be dangerously bad at beach volleyball or even ping-pong.

While Eskimos may have 50 words for snow, Scots have more than 800 words for abject humiliation. There's 'goalkeepered', 'Gazzafied', 'Perued', 'utterly-Brazilianed', 'last-minuted' and now 'Argentinised'.

There comes a point at which it would be easier if the headline was a just a special symbol, like the Batman logo, but for total failure. The rest of the article could be just a big photo of somebody pale, looking hacked off.

Sport Scotland has now pledged to use its £4 annual budget to look at new activities for Scotland's 37 and a half athletes in the hope that, by some genetic freak, one of them turns out to be good at something.

The Scottish football team has already been given a surfboard and are currently trying to turn it into a bar. Meanwhile Scotland's top cricketers were asked to leave the Commonwealth Pool in Edinburgh after using it to deep fry a giraffe they had stolen from the local zoo.

My god, Great White, with your lateral and pictorial thought combined with your abstract reasoning, you should do your own blog...I'd read it...excellent.

[Great White]

Great White this may shock you but I don't know Ben Foden, therefore I can't say whether I like him or not.

But what I can say is that having played a lot of rugby in my time, oh and watch a lot more, I've seen nothing at this RWC to say that Foden deserves the England No15 shirt, therefore I'd give Armitage a go as he seems to make things happen and doesn't just run sideways like a headless chicken until his tackled and isolated.

Statistically, of course, you've been proven wrong. Therefore, since it seems obvious that facts mean nothing to you, one must assume that you are limited in your rugby knowledge (almost certainly) and have something personal against the player (probably). Or both. I tend to think that having been proved wrong again, you're simply attempting to perpetuate this tired and hackneyed BS in a poor attempt at persuading us all that you may, in fact, have a point worth note.

[HERSH]

Great White it’s clear to me and the rest of us that you have another agenda other that rugby, so your views and comments mean very little.

But!

Maybe you could help me with something else?

Should I watch the game tomorrow at home in my pants whilst eating sugar puffs or should I go into town and watch it at my local wetherspoons whilst eating a large breakfast and drinking beer with all the other down and out at 8.30am?

[Great White]

I assume that what you eat and where you go is entirely at the discretion of your carer.

[Geordie]

"Should I watch the game tomorrow at home in my pants whilst eating sugar puffs or should I go into town and watch it at my local wetherspoons whilst eating a large breakfast and drinking beer with all the other down and out at 8.30am? "

You could always go to weatherspoons....in your pants... happy all ways...

[HERSH]

Great White calm down, maybe before you answer back you should try counting to 10 or seeing that you're from Sailsbury 12, if you have trouble counting to 12 look at your feet.

[HERSH]

And now for something completely different!

Rugby chat about England v Scotland.....


I see Ben Cohen had this to say about Ashton

"Do I think he's the best winger in the world at the moment? No."

Cheers Ben.

[lostinwales]

I like this - this is funny

Oh and Foden's metres run will be skewed by the fact that he runs from deep not 'from the gainline' which probably marks S. Lamont's figures as impressive. What I would say though is that he does make the opposition think.

I deride Shane because he can look ineffective - but then when he does its often because the opposition 'double team' him (or whatever you want to call it) This often makes things happen elsewhere on the pitch and makes space if the team can use it.

Maybe the current crop of NH full backs are not up to much - but if there was a Lions test tomorrow Foden would easily be the favourite

[Great White]

Great White calm down, maybe before you answer back you should try counting to 10 or seeing that you're from Sailsbury 12, if you have trouble counting to 12 look at your feet.

I'm not from Salisbury, I live in Salisbury. Not that that's any of your business.

[Geordie]

"And now for something completely different!

Rugby chat about England v Scotland....."

Ok how much influence with Armitage, Ashtonand Foden have on tomorrows game?

Sorry couldnt resist.

Seriously...two questions....
1) Will Scotlands pack be stronger / focus on the breakdown...or will England be disciplined to cut out these penalties?

2) Are Scotland capable of being creative enough to score tries?

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Four people travelling on a train. An Englishman, a Scotsman, an old lady and a very fit blonde with huge boobs. They go into a dark tunnel and hear a very loud slap! when they come out the Englishman is rubbing his face.

The Englishman thinks "I bet the Scots guy touched the blondes boobs and she slapped me by mistake"

The old lady thinks "I bet he tried touching the blondes boobs and got slapped"

The Blonde thinks "I bet he thought he was touching me but got the old lady instead"

And the Scotsman thinks "I can’t wait to go into another tunnel so I can slap Great White again"

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Four people travelling on a train. An Englishman, a Scotsman, an old lady and a very fit blonde with huge boobs. They go into a dark tunnel and hear a very loud slap! when they come out the Englishman is rubbing his face.

The Englishman thinks "I bet the Scots guy touched the blondes boobs and she slapped me by mistake"

The old lady thinks "I bet he tried touching the blondes boobs and got slapped"

The Blonde thinks "I bet he thought he was touching me but got the old lady instead"

And the Scotsman thinks "I can’t wait to go into another tunnel so I can slap Great White again"

[HERSH]

Great White calm down, maybe before you answer back you should try counting to 10 or seeing that you're from Sailsbury 12, if you have trouble counting to 12 look at your feet.

I'm not from Salisbury, I live in Salisbury. Not that that's any of your business.

Count your Misses toes then!

[screamingaddabs]

Could Hersh and Great White please start a separate thread for personal attacks on one another. It's really quite dull. Why can't you just say "we disagree on this issue" and talk about something else?

Anywho, I'm really looking forward to the game, I reckon Scotland's only chance is if they come out massively aggressive early on and shock England at the break down like Ireland did in the 6N. A quick 9 points on the board and it's all to play for. If it's even or if England have the lead after 20 minutes I can't see Scotland doing it.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Could Hersh and Great White please start a separate thread for personal attacks on one another. It's really quite dull. Why can't you just say "we disagree on this issue" and talk about something else?

Anywho, I'm really looking forward to the game, I reckon Scotland's only chance is if they come out massively aggressive early on and shock England at the break down like Ireland did in the 6N. A quick 9 points on the board and it's all to play for. If it's even or if England have the lead after 20 minutes I can't see Scotland doing it.

+1

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