Post MATCH discussion THREAD - Wales vs France

by maestegmafia Wed 12 Oct 2011 - 8:59

First topic message reminder :

Well played France a deserved winner... great effort by Wales but silly mistakes cost us a better result...

Good luck to Australia and New Zealand tomorrow

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 9:52

maestegmafia wrote:Always thought HP sauce was a bit like Led Zepplin, anyone who doesn't like either kind of worries me...!

I love Led Zepellin but I can't stand HP sauce - where does that leave me? Headscratch

by bedfordwelsh Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 9:56

lp,

Just a bit weird Wink

mm,

I am entering via gate 7, just trying to persuade Mrs Bedford to get up that bit earlier and go to Prince of Wales for a Big Breakfast at 7 am, though think getting the teenage daughter up may be more of a challenge.

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 10:25

I remember teenagers mate...! Nightmare...

My grand kids are almost teenage now.

You need to get them fit...! Get them out doors.

As soon as I know where I am I'll pm you.

LP... As with anyone in the reverse of your situation I would say try a little bit at a time and you'll be a big fan in no time...!

by ystradosprey Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 12:21

Is anybody else concerned about the time Ireland spent in our 22 , around 14min according to scrum v. Surely France will have either learnt from Irelands mistake and kick for goal more often than not. Wales will have to tighten up all round to beat France, no disrespect to Ireland, missing kicks to touch against France will be a nightmare. Is anybody else worried about playing Hook at 10, will he be able to boss a game and let JR and JD2 do what their good at or will he try and do it all himself. Im always wary of Hook at 10 would have much preferred him at 12 if you had asked me before the warm up games but now I think Id prefer him on the bench and Stephen at 10. Any thoughts?

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 12:27

Ystrad I think you're panicking a bit too much here. Wales are happy to let the other team have the ball and then defend and break quick. Its been the pattern in the warm ups and the RWC and it has been effective every time. I think you are underestimating our own strengths and this is what we need to focus on. Hook is more than capable of controlling things at 10 as the game plan is relatively simple and he remains a good line kicker. Ireland had to come back at us all the time and hence spent some time in our 22 much like England did against france when the game was up. My only real concern here is the line out as the french pick pocketed the english at key moments and england line out is their main strength. We have plenty in the tank Ystrad - Believe - Is that Ystradgynlais or somewhere else? thumbsup

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 12:37

RubyGuby wrote:Wales are happy to let the other team have the ball and then defend and break quick. Its been the pattern in the warm ups and the RWC and it has been effective every time.

Er, no it hasn't. We lost to England at Twickenham, lost to the 'Boks and just about squeaked past Samoa.

I really hope there isn't the same complacency in the Welsh camp as there is among some Welsh fans here.

by Astonal Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 12:45

cant wait for the game, its got a real rare and exciting feel to it. Wales go in the favourites but need to stay their course and standard (not always easy), France have played terribly most of the tournament so have nothing to lose (making them more dangerous, especially as the team has now got more confidence). Roll on the Weekend!

I must add - I support Wales here but the back of my mind would love a France NZ rematch in the final!

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 12:53

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Wales are happy to let the other team have the ball and then defend and break quick. Its been the pattern in the warm ups and the RWC and it has been effective every time.

Er, no it hasn't. We lost to England at Twickenham, lost to the 'Boks and just about squeaked past Samoa.

I really hope there isn't the same complacency in the Welsh camp as there is among some Welsh fans here.

This pattern was being developed in the warm ups and at Twickenham a loss by 4 was a reasonable sacrifice to develop our game plan, even with a weakened side. We lost to a strong SA side because we missed a kick at goal at the end and we spilled a few chances - The game plan worked fine. This is not arrogance its just the way Wales have built their game around a strong defence. You are imagining things in my post that are not there thumbsup

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 13:02

Ruby, my point is that shutting out France when they're on song is going to be a different prospect to shutting out Ireland.

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 13:12

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Ruby, my point is that shutting out France when they're on song is going to be a different prospect to shutting out Ireland.

I agree to some extent but only in the fact that they have more dynamic back runners, they have a similar powerful back row to Ireland - You should also remember how France have faired so far when teams have run the ball at them; in fact they struggled against nearly all the teams in their group. The game remains a 50/50 but we should concern ourselves with executing our gameplan, being patient and going through the phases and trying to stop any french attacks at source which along with the lineout is easier said than done. We are however comfortable when other sides have the ball and that is not arrogance its our game plan which is built on a powerful defence. France will also use the chip kick to counter the kwik defence so 1/2p has been warned. thumbsup

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 13:26

Afternoon. This comment may start a little out of context as it was in response to a question and subsequent answer on another thread, but I thought as this is the discussion thread for the game I would post it here as it contains my thoughts on what will hopefully be a fantastic game of rugby….

I agree that hook is the bolder choice out of him and Jones, and Wales will no doubt 'go for it' on Saturday. My thoughts are mainly around the fact that I believe that the Welsh team at present is more than the sum of it's parts. Everyone on the field against Ireland was comfortable with their own job, and more importantly trusted the man next to him to do his. Particularly in defence, that was crucial, and in attack as I think someone else has said, Priestland did the simple things well, and picked the right options at the right time. I worry that losing one of those parts of the machine, and a pretty key one at that may upset the balance/dynamics even thought the incoming part is also of the highest quality.

Against Ireland I picked Jenkins, Lydiate and Roberts as your key players before the game. This time out, if I had to select three who will be key, they are Adam Jones, Luke Charteris and Jonathon Davies. France will target the set piece without a shadow of a doubt, and the hair bear will need to seriously drop anchor at scrum time, likewise Charteris will need to try to have an effect on the French lineout which is a real strength and provides them with a real platform to attack from. They are key more in defence than attack, and from an attacking standpoint I think JD2 could be the key man this week. France have a weakness in defence on the outside shoulder of Rougerie, particularly when defending against a team attacking throwing the ball right to left. It looks at times as if he does not trust Mermoz inside him and steps in leaving a gap with the right winger cannot cover. Wales need to put France on the back foot, and JD2 needs to pick the right lines to exploit this weakness.

I really, really, really want Wales to win this week, but I am more nervous for them than I was when they faced Ireland.

by mckay1402 Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 13:33

I can't see why poor old Biltong is being bullied here for sharing his opinion. Lay off him fellas...until after the game at least

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:13

mckay1402 wrote:I can't see why poor old Biltong is being bullied here for sharing his opinion. Lay off him fellas...until after the game at least

No one is being bullied. Just everyone was questioning his reasoning. I think everyone had a fair point too.

Judge the next game with what you saw of a team recently not over ten years, especially in Wales' case where most of the team have under 30 caps.

by JDandfries Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:16

He is giving his opinion on who he thinks will win, and it doesnt matter one jot why he thinks France will win.

I think France will win, and that is based on the fact that they haven't played well yet, and IMO they always do.

France at their best are almost unbeatable, so i am going for France by >5

by Cymroglan Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:16

Under 30 caps is just part of it eight of the match-day squad are aged 23 or under bodes well for the future.

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:20

ystradosprey wrote:Is anybody else concerned about the time Ireland spent in our 22 , around 14min according to scrum v. Surely France will have either learnt from Irelands mistake and kick for goal more often than not. Wales will have to tighten up all round to beat France, no disrespect to Ireland, missing kicks to touch against France will be a nightmare. Is anybody else worried about playing Hook at 10, will he be able to boss a game and let JR and JD2 do what their good at or will he try and do it all himself. Im always wary of Hook at 10 would have much preferred him at 12 if you had asked me before the warm up games but now I think Id prefer him on the bench and Stephen at 10. Any thoughts?

Yes I agree.

france will kick as they have a great marksman in Yachvilli, I think he is top in the accuracy percentages or at least one of the most accurate out there.

France also have a more lethal back three than Ireland and a decent center partnership in attack

But the french dont like defence, the ABs ran straight through them all game, then when there heads were down they ran in some very easy scores.

Wales have to go at them full tilt from the off.

This will be more like the Spring bok middle quarters tactically than the last few games.

Wales should look to get points up on the board early, but instead of putting pressure on the french to get in to the game, wales should just stop France getting the ball. Play like the old England teams of the nineties used to do to them. Set up phases, control those phases with patience and skill. Then the french will lose it and we might have an opportunity to seal the game off with a couple of tries.

Main ambition in this game is to nil france and win.

Second is to show control

third is to score more points against them than the kiwis did, so that we worry the potential finalists whoever they might be.

by Cymroglan Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:21

JDandfries these are not friendlies so I don't buy into this nonsense they are due a good game.
France have not been convincing in any of their games and if England had not been so clueless in selection France would be going home.
Of course I'm not taking them for granted but if France don't step up a couple of gears then they wont make the final.

by JDandfries Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:24

Cymroglan wrote:JDandfries these are not friendlies so I don't buy into this nonsense they are due a good game.
France have not been convincing in any of their games and if England had not been so clueless in selection France would be going home.
Of course I'm not taking them for granted but if France don't step up a couple of gears then they wont make the final.

France are more than capable of stepping up enough gears that no one can live with them.

Whether they do or not is the question, but for as long as I can remember, regardless of infighting,or whatever, they always string it toegther in one game, be it 6N or RWC - this is the time they have to in order to win, and I think they will

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:27

JDandfries wrote:He is giving his opinion on who he thinks will win, and it doesnt matter one jot why he thinks France will win.

I think France will win, and that is based on the fact that they haven't played well yet, and IMO they always do.

France at their best are almost unbeatable, so i am going for France by >5

Sure but as TycroesOsprey wrote, there are plenty of dutiful reasons why France are a great team and should win this game, far better points than that they have a better winning ratio over ten years....! If i took stats like that seriously i would think the ABs would never lose.

My opinion, and I am guessing i speak for most rugby fans on this thread, that we would all rather talk rugby than just give opinions based on reasonably unapparent stats, to do so, as Biltong did, just makes you sound ill informed.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Look Biltong your opinion is valid but your not using rugby to back it up.

You could have pointed to the two weaknesses in the welsh defensive plan which france can exploit.

Or the weakness in the Welsh line which will allow the french to attack with top of the line or rear ball cleanly won.

Theres the French ability to slow the breakdown to limit our attack and to pressurise Phillips delivery.

Theres the fact that Allain Rollands interpretation of the breakdown is one that Wales suffered under agaisnt Samoa.

What about the French ability to attack off first phase ball given a percieved dominance in the scrum.

There are clear reasons why Wales could lose espescially in the defensive plan but you didnt mention any of them just a feeling, I think thats why you got a harsh response

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:31

No one has mentioned the word "discipline" and this is a RWC semi-final, I feel Wales are ahead in this area and we must exploit every opportunity to get the french riled thumbsup

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:40

Territory and disciplin will be the key... Lots of nice kicks down the line to put us in hansom positions and keep them pegged back in their half. Let them start giving away the penalties.

Whoever wins this will be a great team and they deserve to make the final.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:46

Not convinced territory will be key. Wales need to keep the ball imo. If they kick and it stays in, you are giving France licence to attack from deep with ball in hand, which they are very dangerous from. Alternatively if you kick for touch, the French lineout is superior to the Welsh one, and they are more than likely going to secure decent ball to work with.

Wales imo need to be composed and go through the phases and make France work without the ball. They need to ensure that france are forced to make tackles. If they do there will be gaps for them to exploit. If you continually give the French the ball, however deep in their half they have it, you are asking for trouble.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:47

I can say I think the Wallabies will put 100 points on the All Blacks. I don't have to justify my opinion to anyone.

Biltong said something much less far-fetched - that France would beat Wales. It's happened more often then not this century, after all. But he was attacked for it.

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:48

Ozzy3213 wrote:Not convinced territory will be key. Wales need to keep the ball imo. If they kick and it stays in, you are giving France licence to attack from deep with ball in hand, which they are very dangerous from. Alternatively if you kick for touch, the French lineout is superior to the Welsh one, and they are more than likely going to secure decent ball to work with.

Wales imo need to be composed and go through the phases and make France work without the ball. They need to ensure that france are forced to make tackles. If they do there will be gaps for them to exploit. If you continually give the French the ball, however deep in their half they have it, you are asking for trouble.

maestegmafia wrote:France will kick as they have a great marksman in Yachvilli, I think he is top in the accuracy percentages or at least one of the most accurate out there.

France also have a more lethal back three than Ireland and a decent center partnership in attack

But the french dont like defence, the ABs ran straight through them all game, then when there heads were down they ran in some very easy scores.

Wales have to go at them full tilt from the off.

This will be more like the Spring bok middle quarters tactically than the last few games.

Wales should look to get points up on the board early, but instead of putting pressure on the french to get in to the game, wales should just stop France getting the ball. Play like the old England teams of the nineties used to do to them. Set up phases, control those phases with patience and skill. Then the french will lose it and we might have an opportunity to seal the game off with a couple of tries.

Main ambition in this game is to nil france and win.

Second is to show control

third is to score more points against them than the kiwis did, so that we worry the potential finalists whoever they might be.

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:49

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I can say I think the Wallabies will put 100 points on the All Blacks. I don't have to justify my opinion to anyone.

Biltong said something much less far-fetched - that France would beat Wales. It's happened more often then not this century, after all. But he was attacked for it.

He wasn't attacked for it, he was asked why he thought it and his reasoning seemed pre ordained and lacking any reasonable knowledge of the teams recent form.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:50

From what I have seen, I don't think France have the strength to defend against this welsh team. Roberts, Faletau, North I think will punch holes to be exploited by the support runners.

French defence this year has been very poor I think.

by Cymroglan Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:50

luckless_pedestrian I think it's due to the fact he has said that about every side that Wales played against but with less vigour against Namibia. Very Happy

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 14:58

You're free to disagree with his reasoning, but he's entitled to his views all the same. Ultimately he doesn't have to justify his opinion to anyone else on these boards.

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 15:08

luckless_pedestrian wrote:You're free to disagree with his reasoning, but he's entitled to his views all the same. Ultimately he doesn't have to justify his opinion to anyone else on these boards.

He volentereed his reasoning when asked mate.

His answer was questioned. He defended it, we asked more questions.

You make it sound much worse than it is.

All the way through people said he is welcome to his opinion, but they wished he had a bit more grunt to his argument, sadly Cymroglan is also correct above, Biltong has been constantly putting the Welsh chances down since before the SA game.

by JDandfries Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 15:16

That has not been the case, you lot are displaying classic seige mentality and won't be happy until he says Wales will win..... hope you all come back to apologise when France win!

by HERSH Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 15:16

But why does he have to have a reason, people always hate England for no reason and we don't complain.

by TheGreyGhost Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 15:19

It's not for no reason HERSH. It's for too many to list.

by Guest Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 15:20

Just a reminder to everyone that we are all entitled to our opinions on this forum. They do not have to be backed up by "fact" just to please other posters. Some opinions are perfectly acceptable just to come from someone own gut feeling. It's all well and good to debate the argument, but please refrain from targetting posters specifically.

by JDandfries Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 15:23

TheGreyGhost wrote:It's not for no reason HERSH. It's for too many to list.

by Smirnoffpriest Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 16:02

TheGreyGhost wrote:It's not for no reason HERSH. It's for too many to list.

by Knowsit17 Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 16:17

Stop France from running rampant and the French could very well lose heart. Remember they started almost as well against NZ as they did against England. The difference was that while England missed tackles and looked stumped as to how to react, the AB's kept their cool, shut France out of the early exchanges and put a boatload of points on them.

The defence needs to be as strong as ever, Warbs, Lydiate and Faletau as consistent at the breakdown as they have been throughout the tournament. They should have their hands full against Dusautoir, Bonnaire and Harinordoquy but execute these two steps and the French will be deprived of the possession they were able to feed off last time out.

Be clinical in attack, use every resource wisely and we could win by a comfortable final margin. If Tonga can do it...

CYMRU AM BYTH Wales

by gavstar Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 16:48

Ystradosprey, lots of concern out there, you are not alone, read the HOOK GETS THE NOD . Lots of opinion both ways.

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 22:29

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
TheGreyGhost wrote:It's not for no reason HERSH. It's for too many to list.

I don't hate England or English rugby. I do dislike some of the posts written by "so called" English rugby fans.

This is all very off topic though.

"Centre Jonathan Davies says Wales have enjoyed going quietly about their business at the World Cup but realises they are now fully in the spotlight.

An impressive 22-10 quarter-final win over Ireland booked Saturday's clash with France, with the winner facing Australia or New Zealand in the final.

"The huge interest has changed and put us on the map really," said Davies.

"We were quite comfortable going under the radar, making sure we did our own thing.""

Above is From the BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15291470.stm

Wales have to deal with the new pressure of possibly being considered favourites, or prospects at least. It is a pressure felt heavily by some of the older members of the Squad that failed to live up to it to win a back to back Grand Slam in 2009, a team that played against the best teams in the world, even put out an A Team against Fiji and managed little more than a draw.

That team has been revitalised this summer with youth, exuberance and good tactical leadership. We are now ready for a Semi Final this weekend. I believe these lads have it in them to step up to the mark, to shake off the shackles of the past few years and go to a final in good shape to compete for the big prize.

I for one of many stated before the tournament that I would be happy if we made the Quarter finals, this team have impressed more and more every game in attack and defence. What we struggled to do only six months ago, we now do with ease.

These buys could be just two steps from greatness...!

What a wonderful thought eh...!

by ystradosprey Thu 13 Oct 2011 - 23:59

Gavstar good to know Im not the only one hopefully Stephen will be brought on to kill the game as he did against Ireland to 2008 and not to get us scoring because were down by 8 in the last 15 min. I would much rather Hook for that job.

Ruby Guby, fingers crossed Wales stay on the right side of the ref, or at least dont get caught ! Any points France dont have to work hard for may cost us and yes ystrad = Ystradgynlais Smile

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 0:13

Mick Cleary said in the telegraph

There will be more people watching Wales on Saturday morning at the Millennium Stadium than at Eden Park.
Fifty-one thousand tickets have been claimed for the free event at the national stadium with expectations of meeting the capacity set at 62,000.
The stadium had 50,000 for a Michael Jackson tribute concert last weekend: living heroes rather than deceased icons are bigger business in Wales these days. The past is now another country.
“You’d love to be able to nip home for an hour or two to take it all in,” said Adam Jones. “It’s gone crazy, eh?”

by Gatts Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 2:24

ystradosprey wrote:Gavstar good to know Im not the only one hopefully Stephen will be brought on to kill the game as he did against Ireland to 2008 and not to get us scoring because were down by 8 in the last 15 min. I would much rather Hook for that job.

Ruby Guby, fingers crossed Wales stay on the right side of the ref, or at least dont get caught ! Any points France dont have to work hard for may cost us and yes ystrad = Ystradgynlais

SJ will only be subbed if JH has a mare....we are only using subs for injury at the moment, it seems that spala might have turned our boys into cryogenic supermen

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 8:00

Gatts wrote:
ystradosprey wrote:Gavstar good to know Im not the only one hopefully Stephen will be brought on to kill the game as he did against Ireland to 2008 and not to get us scoring because were down by 8 in the last 15 min. I would much rather Hook for that job.

Ruby Guby, fingers crossed Wales stay on the right side of the ref, or at least dont get caught ! Any points France dont have to work hard for may cost us and yes ystrad = Ystradgynlais

SJ will only be subbed if JH has a mare....we are only using subs for injury at the moment, it seems that spala might have turned our boys into cryogenic supermen

I do wonder if it will have any negative effects too. I hope not. At least not for the next too weeks.

But we may well have a huge spate of injuries after this RWC

by RubyGuby Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 10:09

Cheers Ystrad - Ruby's a Glynneath boy, or Tavistown as it is now caled - I played with Steve Bayliss for a while at Neath, beast of a winger as a 19 year old and another fella Les Rutherford went on to play for Swansea for a while I think - Tough guys thumbsup

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 13:38

I don't think we'll just use our subs for injuries - especially not with Jones as he offers something totally different to Hook - but I doubt he'll be brought on if Hook is having an awesome game, and although I've knocked Hook in the past and aren't his biggest fan - I think he could have a really good game as he looked good against England/Argies and all the other players who I had big question marks next to (Phillips, AWJ, Bennett and even Roberts to an extent) have all come up trumps and it looks like the they are all playing to the game plan and the game plan is getting the best out of them. So I am hopeful that Hook will keep it simple and have a really good game, and towards the last quarter will start controlling the game and giving the French nothing to work with - and if he doesn't then Jones comes on to do it.

by GunsGerms Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 14:17

Good luck to Wales. Good to see the welsh lads do well. What a difference Warburton has made. Martin Williams seems a distant memory now.

Wales have been very impressive but I have a feeling that France will sneak it and then pummel NZ in the final.

by RubyGuby Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 15:10

Tomorow might be the real waking of a new dawn for Wales, they have the potential to beat this French side and beat them well, however this is also a strong french team that remains something of a mystery as Tonga and England can tell you. We all await with great anticipation - Showtime is only a few hours away thumbsup

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 18:15

I hope the french do turn up.. It would mean so much more to have to really fight for the last two games, and win, even more than we have already.

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 18:42

Great pre match hype on BBC Wales news.

by Cymroglan Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 18:49

Yes it's very good maes

by lauriehow Fri 14 Oct 2011 - 19:06

Seems to me that past W v F results do not count a hoot.

But if you guys think they do, then I would say that in 2005 and 2008 when Wales had comparable form to now, we beat France narrowly in Paris, and in 2008 quite easily at home. As i remember the 2008 game we defended very well and then pulled away. Same tactics as now, but now we have a better defence and better attack than then. I feel good and my sportsguru prediction is Wales by 21.....I had Wales by 12 v Ireland.

One further point - we are improving all the time as young guys bed in to the team and the older guys back from injury get match fit. Sam W has warmed to the captaincy having had early qualms. As his girlfriend told me at the start...he is only 22 [we work together].

Wales are now a TEAM, France a rabble.

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