Match fixers that were punished....

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 20:53

In the wake of match fixing trial of the Pakistani player...let's look at the ones who have been convicted:

Punished:

1) Azharuddin
2) Salim Malik
3) Ajay Jadeja
4) Nikhil chopra
5) Cronje
6) Marlon Samuels ( i think)

a_D

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 20:57

Sorry anu but I've removed the 'alleged' list. That is seen as libellous given that nothing was proven, and as such can't allow it to stand, it's the sort of thing that can get us into a lot of trouble.

No discussion of 'alleged' cheats please, guys.

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 21:02

Fists of Fury wrote:Sorry anu but I've removed the 'alleged' list. That is seen as libellous given that nothing was proven, and as such can't allow it to stand, it's the sort of thing that can get us into a lot of trouble.

No discussion of 'alleged' cheats please, guys.

it was not proven because they ESCAPED legal trials......shielded by their boards from appearing in legal trials in the countires where they commited the offence.

and that is the point of the thread...that spineless PCB sold their players short.
Like other boards...PCB should have conducted an internal inquiry in Pakistan

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 21:09

If something hasn't been proven, then the person in question is not guilty. That is how the justice system works.

Now let that be the end of it, as I say it's libellous and can get 606v2 into a lot of trouble.

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 21:16

^ so you re suggesting that we should be NOT discussing about accused on the forum unless proven guilty?

by Grizzly Wed 2 Nov - 21:21

Be wary of generalisation, there's a world of difference between match fixers and spot fixers.
I can't add much that hasn't been said already but Hanse Cronje for example clearly contrived to lose games of cricket for personal gain, otehrs you have mentioned have provided bookmakers/betting syndicates with information that wouldn't be available to the public such as selection, batting order, pitch conditions, opening attack etc.
I'm not suggesting this is acceptable but (as far as the world is aware) these spot fixers never deliberately set out to lose games of cricket.

For what it's worth, I was involved professionally with the game (a long time ago) and still have mates who either still play or did play until recentlly, I can assure you this runs deeper than anyone here thinks.

Also, I have known a few of the England side over a number of years, some years ago during a conversation with mate on tour I was told that a player had sufferd an injury and they weren't sure whether he would play in the remaining test matches, a quick look at betting sites and I found a bunch of companies offering the total number of runs/wickets this individual would score in the series, this was an opportunity too good to pass up and I was able to make easy free money, my mate in the squad who told me this was unaware of my bets and made nothing from this info, my point is that when info such as this is communicated to people before it's been officially announced there are opportunities to make money and some players know this...

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 21:23

Great post grizzly, very interesting.

Anu - I'm not suggesting that we don't speak about those that haven't been proven guilty, I'm telling you.

by GG Wed 2 Nov - 21:26

Samuels is as much of a match fixer as Shane Warne or Mark Waugh

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 21:29

Fists of Fury wrote:
Anu - I'm not suggesting that we don't speak about those that haven't been proven guilty, I'm telling you.

then you are inconsistent in your own interpretations:
the thread below is discussing the ACCUSED before proven guilty( on 6th Oct)
Further more it is talking about 3 more pakistanis accused.....the akmal brothers and wahab riaz...who even to date have not been proven guilty

https://www.606v2.com/t15543-pakistan-spot-fixing-trial

by **Biltong** Wed 2 Nov - 21:33

Did Hansie Cronje really "fix" any matches, or was he just involved with providing info to bookies?

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 21:34

Mate, give it a rest. Those names being discussed were relevant because they were in the news...that isn't libellous, and nobody stated that they were guilty until the verdict was given.

I'm not being inconsistent, I'm telling you that it's libellous to discuss the guilt of somebody that didn't even stand trial for such a crime.

by ShankyCricket Wed 2 Nov - 21:41

Give it a rest Anu.Fists is right and what you are saying could get v2 into trouble.

by Guest Wed 2 Nov - 21:44

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Give it a rest Anu.Fists is right and what you are saying could get v2 into trouble.

right you are mate

by Grizzly Wed 2 Nov - 21:48

'the akmal brothers and wahab riaz...who even to date have not been proven guilty'

When, and not if, rumours result in investigations/prosecutions I'll be happy to post some fact on this.

Clearly the common denominator here is Pakistani cricketers and before the racist slurs begin, it's worth remembering that as cricketers these guys are as talented as Indians, English, Aussies, Saffers etc yet their earning potential is less than most people who use this forum.

Their ban from hosting international matches as well as the IPL means that whilst the likes of Andrew Symonds can spend 9 months fishing, 3 months playing cricket and clear a staggering $1m plus endorsements, the likes of Amir and Asif who I rated as the best new ball pairing in world cricket 12 months ago, earn less than $50k from playing cricket.
It's therefore easy to understand the temptation when offered sums of money they could previously only dream about - either of them could earn more playing a season of 'amateur' Sat league cricket in England than they would from a Pakistan test series in the Middle East.
For what it's worth, Sri Lankan cricket was in the same boat until IPL started, their domestic league carried no money and the distribution of funds from their governing body meant the likes of Murali were earning relatively low salaries, only personal endorsements gave them a good living from the game...

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 21:51

so cheating is ok coz they dont earn as much as players from other countries ?

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 21:51

That's all very true, Grizzly, and I guess the counter argument would be that they'd have more respect for the credibility of their country than to get into such circles, alas money is a powerful thing.

You're right, by the way, in that Amir and Asif were the best new ball pairing in world cricket. Individually, Steyn and Anderson are superior, but as a unit they were truly superb. It is a shame that their earning potential was so limited in comparison to that of other nations. However, they're going to have an even harder time earning now! Guess they'll have to get an autobiography out...

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 21:52

rich1uk wrote:so cheating is ok coz they dont earn as much as players from other countries ?

That isn't what he was saying, rich, I believe he was simply offering an insight into the reasons as to why they may have been tempted in the first instance.

by Grizzly Wed 2 Nov - 21:52

rich1uk wrote:so cheating is ok coz they dont earn as much as players from other countries ?

Please re-read both my posts and point out where I have said this

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 21:56

i was playing devil's advocate but your last post seems to make excuses for what they did based on the fact they didn't earn much

by Grizzly Wed 2 Nov - 21:59

Fists of Fury wrote:That's all very true, Grizzly, and I guess the counter argument would be that they'd have more respect for the credibility of their country than to get into such circles, alas money is a powerful thing.

You're right, by the way, in that Amir and Asif were the best new ball pairing in world cricket. Individually, Steyn and Anderson are superior, but as a unit they were truly superb. It is a shame that their earning potential was so limited in comparison to that of other nations. However, they're going to have an even harder time earning now! Guess they'll have to get an autobiography out...

Strangely I think they'll do OK out of this.
Their after dinner speakers rates went through the roof yesterday !

Your first point is key, respect/credibility for their country, and it is this that remains an unknown.
There will be those who believe the trial was unlawful and that a conspiracy existed from the start, but your average Pakistani who loves the game, the sport and the players who represent their country will be left devasted and sadly I wouldn't rule out repurcussions.

Cronje had no excuses, he had already been made a rich man from cricket, these guys shared nets, showers, changing rooms with multi-millionaires and earned less than the security guards manning their changing room door...

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:00

btw i accept that greed was the underlying issue here but that doesn't condone what they did

they may not have earned anything near what their counterparts in other countries did but that does not mean they were poor, certainly in comparison to the average person from their own country

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:01

https://www.606v2.com/t15543-pakistan-spot-fixing-trial.

sorry but I still don;t see how 606v2 could have allowed the above thread to appear...esepcially that the akmal brothers and riaz are being named there

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:03

anu_d wrote:https://www.606v2.com/t15543-pakistan-spot-fixing-trial.

sorry but I still don;t see how 606v2 could have allowed the above thread to appear...esepcially that the akmal brothers and riaz are being named there

they were named by a witness during the trial anu in open court

all that is being said in that thread is a repeat of that witness statement

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 22:05

You're clutching at straws anu, there was ONE mention of them, saying they'd been accused. Nobody then went on to discuss their guilt...which is something your thread had intended to do.

That's the end of it, either discuss those that have been found guilty or don't bother at all.

by **Biltong** Wed 2 Nov - 22:06

Grizzly wrote:

Cronje had no excuses, he had already been made a rich man from cricket, these guys shared nets, showers, changing rooms with multi-millionaires and earned less than the security guards manning their changing room door...

Cronje was roped in like a trout to a fly, slowly, cunningly and his convitions fell away once the money was left on his table. greed is an ugly thing. If a man with his supposed morals caved in, how many others would be able to resist?

by Grizzly Wed 2 Nov - 22:07

rich1uk wrote:i was playing devil's advocate but your last post seems to make excuses for what they did based on the fact they didn't earn much

'I'm not suggesting this is acceptable but (as far as the world is aware) these spot fixers never deliberately set out to lose games of cricket'

This was from my first post.
Just to re-iterate, I don't believe that any form of 'fixing' is acceptable whether it's from a millionaire or a peasant, the integrity of the game was barely recovering from a number of high profile cases in recent years and yesterdays decisions will do nothing to enhance the reputation of the sport or attract new fans to it.

by Grizzly Wed 2 Nov - 22:12

I also say this with some knowledge;
Many betting firms offer a market on the number fo runs scored from the first ball and first over, some years ago I know of a couple of debutants in international cricket who were instructed to bowl 5 wides down the leg side, commentators will excuse the young lad and put it down to nerves and the game continues. None of the games I refer to were hugely close, in other words the 5 wides made no obvious difference to the outcome of the result, there were however a number of people who made alot of money from that one delivery...

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:21

Fists of Fury wrote:You're clutching at straws anu, there was ONE mention of them, saying they'd been accused. Nobody then went on to discuss their guilt...which is something your thread had intended to do.

That's the end of it, either discuss those that have been found guilty or don't bother at all.

Good so I would like to mention that Delhi Police named Alec Stewart as accused and wanting to appear for trial.
Which ECB did not allow.

and the same Nicky Boje was accused by Indian police and wanted for trial....but wasn't sllowed by SA board.

and Pakistan board should have followed the precedences set by England and SA

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 22:24

Grand, now let's make sure no discussion takes place as to the possible guilt of the aforementioned, please.

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:27

Fists of Fury wrote:Grand, now let's make sure no discussion takes place as to the possible guilt of the aforementioned, please.

correct...guilt not mentioned.

Stewart accused by Indian police.....FACT widely availbale in media
denied to be tried in the country where accused by ECB....fact

and Pakistan board missed the opportunity using the precendences availbale.....is the point.
case rested from my side

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:31

"July 11, 2001 England wicketkeeper Alec Stewart is cleared of allegations that he took money from a bookmaker in return for providing team and pitch information during England's 1992-93 tour of India, Sir Paul Condon's Anti-Corruption Unit (ACSU) confirms in a statement in London."

as usual anu you only tell the parts of the story that support your own biased views

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:33

rich1uk wrote:"July 11, 2001 England wicketkeeper Alec Stewart is cleared of allegations that he took money from a bookmaker in return for providing team and pitch information during England's 1992-93 tour of India, Sir Paul Condon's Anti-Corruption Unit (ACSU) confirms in a statement in London."

as usual anu you only tell the parts of the story that support your own biased views

he was cleared by who?
Indian courts and police?
because he was alleged in India.and was asked to appear for examination by Indian police

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:35

he was investigated by the ICC's anti-corruption unit and cleared

something you unsurprisingly failed to mention

are you trying to say that the indian authorities would not have the power to ignore the ECB and take action against him if they had concrete evidence he had committed a crime ?

by ShankyCricket Wed 2 Nov - 22:37

Shut up Anu

by Hoggy_Bear Wed 2 Nov - 22:38

Anu

What would Stewart, Waugh or Warne be charged with?
As far as I'm aware all they did was give information to someone. They were not actively involved in altering the course of the match. What would they be tried for?

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:38

rich1uk wrote:he was investigated by the ICC's anti-corruption unit and cleared

something you unsurprisingly failed to mention

are you trying to say that the indian authorities would not have the power to ignore the ECB and take action against him if they had concrete evidence he had committed a crime ?

well I am saying that Pakistan could have ( and should have) set up a comittee IN PAKISTAN with PCB and some ICC officials and done the trial there instead of allowing their players to be prosecuted by the legal system in England.

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:39

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Anu

What would Stewart, Waugh or Warne be charged with?
As far as I'm aware all they did was give information to someone in return for money. They were not actively involved in altering the course of the match. What would they be tried for?

those letters in red make the diffrence that you probably missed stating

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 22:40

Anu, last chance, you mention guilt of those players again and I'm not only binning this thread, but also binning you.

by Hoggy_Bear Wed 2 Nov - 22:42

anu_d wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:Anu

What would Stewart, Waugh or Warne be charged with?
As far as I'm aware all they did was give information to someone in return for money. They were not actively involved in altering the course of the match. What would they be tried for?

those letters in red make the diffrence that you probably missed stating

No they don't.
Is providing information for money a crime in India?
What crime did they commit under Indian law?

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:44

well the PCB cannot take precedence over the ICC tbh given they are signatories to the ICC's rules. the PCB would have been risking the ICC taking action against the whole of pakistan cricket if they had not gone along with the ICC's actions against the players. btw the ECB did not stand in the way of the ICC in their investigation of stewart, he was investigated by the ACSU in the same way that asif and amir were, difference is he was cleared of any wrongdoing.

as far as the legal proceedings in england i actually said above that i thought the players took a risk by not staying in pakistan and forcing the UK to take extradition procedures against them , not really sure what part you think the PCB should have taken in this however

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:45

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
anu_d wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:Anu

What would Stewart, Waugh or Warne be charged with?
As far as I'm aware all they did was give information to someone in return for money. They were not actively involved in altering the course of the match. What would they be tried for?

those letters in red make the diffrence that you probably missed stating

No they don't.
Is providing information for money a crime in India?
What crime did they commit under Indian law?

why were they fined for that act by ACB...see the link below !!

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/1998/12/09/1060588497968.html

by Guest Wed 2 Nov - 22:46

this is starting to get anu, you have been warned by fists many times, now pack it in.

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:48

anu_d wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:
anu_d wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:Anu

What would Stewart, Waugh or Warne be charged with?
As far as I'm aware all they did was give information to someone in return for money. They were not actively involved in altering the course of the match. What would they be tried for?

those letters in red make the diffrence that you probably missed stating

No they don't.
Is providing information for money a crime in India?
What crime did they commit under Indian law?

why were they fined for that act by ACB

you really need to understand the differences between being in breach of the cricket code of conduct to what is considered a crime

someone could get fined by their board or the ICC for swearing at an umpire , i doubt the police would arrest them for it tho

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:53

lmao at so called facts

warne and waugh were not fined or convicted of match fixing , shane warne gave information about the weather to a bookie , how on earth is that match fixing ?

and the stewart situation has been resolved and he was cleared , why keep saying he was accused of something that he was later cleared of but still make out he was guilty ?

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:54

I can see that Warne, Waugh's convicntion posts are being deleted
and also Stewart's accustaion that denial to be tired wne asked for by Delhi police.

WHY

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 2 Nov - 22:56

Lord give me strength, are you ignorant or just plain stupid? Next one is your last.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 2 Nov - 22:56

rich1uk wrote: they may not have earned anything near what their counterparts in other countries did but that does not mean they were poor, certainly in comparison to the average person from their own country

A basic salary of 50K in Pakistan is a huge salary. It will take the average worker in Pakistan more than 15 years to earn that kind of cash.

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:57

rich1uk wrote:lmao at so called facts

warne and waugh were not fined or convicted of match fixing , shane warne gave information about the weather to a bookie in exchange for money, how on earth is that match fixing ?

that in red makes it match corruption and fixing

and the stewart situation has been resolved and he was cleared , why keep saying he was accused of something that he was later cleared of but still make out he was guilty ?

he was accused by delhi police and summoned to a trial that did not happen.
yeah cleared in England...but refused to appear where he was accused

by anu_d Wed 2 Nov - 22:58

Fists of Fury wrote:Lord give me strength, are you ignorant or just plain stupid? Next one is your last.

you are biassed..for cleaning up the FACTS as on records in the media on Stewart, Warne and Waugh

by rich1uk Wed 2 Nov - 22:59

anu

stewart was named by an indian bookie

he was asked to give information to the dehli police which he refused to do

he was investigated by the ICC's anti-corruption unit and it was found the allegations were groundless and he was cleared

at no point was he ever charged with a crime by the dehli police or anyone else

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