Have We Seen The Last Of Djokovic In 2011?

His appearance in Paris is in doubt. The WTF are less than 2 weeks away. Djokovic would be foolish to play in London if not fully fit. I'm beginning to think we may have seen the last of Djokovic this year.

What a sad end to his great year.

It would indeed be quite a disappointment if the year ended this way.

Paris is understandably in doubt because it allows very little time to recover from the apparent shoulder trouble he was having in the Basel SF.

But I reckon he will be pretty determined to make London. Capturing the WTF title would elevate his status as the new Numero Uno yet further, and would be the absolute perfect book-end to his AO triumph at the start of the 2011 campaign year

Hopefully he will be fit to play and also to the level which he was achieving all year up to the USO. Would definitely take a lot of the shine off the WTF if the player who has won three slams can't play.

I like the idea of having a round robin at WTF between Fed and Nadal...for once.

Welcome to the forum, lags72.

Hope you enjoy yourself on v2

Tenez wrote:I like the idea of having a round robin at WTF between Fed and Nadal...for once.

Ha ha. I wonder why? Although they have met in the semis there.

Many thanks Solerina

As one of the many refugees from 606 I've been lurking here on v2 for a good while, but until now only as a 'guest'. I had initially decided against registering when I noticed that one or two serial WUM's from 606 days had moved over (albeit under thinly-disguised new names). It was not the wummery per se that put me off, but rather the fact that they were the more childish, repetitive and tedious variety.

Happily they since seem to have wandered off elsewhere. Not sure whether that was prompted by a) their dislike of the impressive success of a certain N.Djokovic b) and/or more specifically his record this year in matches versus his immediate predecessor in the Number One spot, c) the general lack of enthusiasm most true tennis fans have for crude player-bashing. Or a combination of all three.

Anyway I'm already way off topic ..... not the ideal start for a new member ....!

I think we may well have seen the end of Djokovic as a force for the rest, what remains of it, for the 2011 season.

To be quite honest, I would have thought the best thing for him would be to withdraw from the WTF and let the injury heal properly. Of course it would be disappointing for the player of the year to miss the grande finale, but in 2008 the number one seed, Nadal, pulled out - and the tournament went on!

Much rather see him back as a force in 2012.

Just saw your post lags - sorry had forgotten to say hi too, so 'hi' and hope you enjoy

Welcome aboard lags72
It's always good to see new members joining up.

Given the serious and potentially chronic nature of shoulder injuries, he's probably well advised to stay away, although I'm sure he'll be keen to take part.

Djoko already has one win at the season-ender under his belt from 2008 at a time when he was also one of the current slam-holders.

I don't think there is any need for him to win the TMF (WTF) again this year and nor do I think he should be particularly bothered about it (or the Paris TMS) compared to the rest he should take if there is even the slightest indication that he could benefit from giving recuperation time to his shoulder (and/or back or whatever else). This year gave him an ominous warning of the attrition on his body that going toe-to-toe with Nadal may cause, and Nadal is not showing any sign of going away just yet. Far better to be at or near his best form for January-September 2012.

lydian wrote:Given the serious and potentially chronic nature of shoulder injuries, he's probably well advised to stay away, although I'm sure he'll be keen to take part.

I know. There's nothing more frustrating than an injury. And the worst thing is you feel like exercising twice as much as before the injury....I get shinsplints if I run fast.
I even had surgery on both feet as a result of wearing the wrong trainers, so now go spinning and run "as a treat", still, sometimes can't help myself doing a few suicidal minutes of 10mph at the end....

Any serious injury naturally has to be 'managed' sensibly.

But the bigger picture does raise a worrying question. I mean .....if guys like Djoker and Rafa - supposedly in their peak years - are already finding it impossible to contest a full year of their sport, one wonders what state they will be in by the time they reach tennis pension age of 29/30 .......???

To be fair Djokovic hasn't exactly been plagued by injuries.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:To be fair Djokovic hasn't exactly been plagued by injuries.

except during matches....

Concur here with lags72, the bigger picture is how Djokovic is going to fare, taking care of this injury for the near future and what impact this injury, and indeed his playing style, will have on his longer term future.

To be honest, watching him play, and seeing his "splits" I thought his injury would be something more along the lines of a groin pull, rather than his shoulder.

It's hard I think for him to pull back, having had the season he's had, and wanting to continue that momentum throughout the end of the year. However, I hope that his team is being proactive on the "longer term vision" with regards to this injury and hence, his career.

Whilst I am an avid Nadal fan, and would have rather seen them split their head to head this year, I am in great admiration of what Djokovic has done this year; he has been something rather extraordinary to behold this year, and am looking forward to seeing his career unfold. But I'd like to see it with him being fit, and to see how, as players get used to his game where it is now, adjust and attempt to overcome.

Tennis, like much of sport, and life, is about attitude, and belief. He has demonstrated both in huge supply and reaped the rewards.

I am greatly looking foward to see how he does, in his position of having won everything for the first 6 months of this year, with regards to then defending as we move into 2012. I don't feel strongly one way or the other, but it's going to be interesting nonetheless. I would be very surprised if he didn't defend quite a few of his titles but it's a hard ask to defend them all.

So here's to him making a full recovery, and coming out strong in 2012. Whether he plays again this year or not, detracts nothing from his accomplishments in 2011. It does however make it an even more remarkable feat, for Federer to have done what he's done, without major injury, to take title after title, year after year. So we'll see what effect Djokovic's game has upon his physical being, but I think he'll yet add some fantastic things to his already wondrous resumee.

Rock on 2012! Think we'll see a few "breakouts" coming along too.

hawkeye wrote:His appearance in Paris is in doubt. The WTF are less than 2 weeks away. Djokovic would be foolish to play in London if not fully fit. I'm beginning to think we may have seen the last of Djokovic this year.

What a sad end to his great year.

More the question will Nadal be 'fit' for the WTF

yloponom68 wrote:
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Tennis, like much of sport, and life, is about attitude, and belief. He has demonstrated both in huge supply and reaped the rewards.

So here's to him making a full recovery, and coming out strong in 2012. Whether he plays again this year or not, detracts nothing from his accomplishments in 2011. It does however make it an even more remarkable feat, for Federer to have done what he's done, without major injury, to take title after title, year after year. So we'll see what effect Djokovic's game has upon his physical being, but I think he'll yet add some fantastic things to his already wondrous resumee.

Rock on 2012! Think we'll see a few "breakouts" coming along too.

Some very good points here and a balanced perspective on Djokovic's impressive year.

The tremendous run that he put together starting with his AO triumph has brought new excitement to the game.

I fully expect Rafa to come back strongly in 2012 but the fact that he ended up falling short against Djokovic throughout the year, just when he (Rafa) looked comfortably set for a prolonged period at Number One, was a salutary reminder that the world of professional sport is rarely predictable. If it was, our interest would most likely wane quickly.

As for the comments re Federer ..... yes it is indeed a remarakable feat to have competed at such a level, year after year, Slam after Slam, and he could stop playing tomorrow in the knowledge that his tennis legacy is totally secure. His unique (virtually) injury-free record is a combination of superb fitness, efficient match strategy and a certain amount of good fortune. Am I right in thinking that he has never yet retired from a match (once started) during his professional career ....??

I too sincerely hope we see some "breakouts" during 2012. We know there is a lot of promising new talent climbing the rankings but it's all a question of which of them can make that crucial big leap. The top four places have been occupied by the same names for over three years now. Only the order has changed, all except Murray having played musical chairs with the top spot (and the guy now at number 4 is a pensioner.....)

Time for some new faces !

Not sure yet who the new faces will be lags - I just can't see anyone that exciting on the horizon. There are a few matches when everyone gets excited about a young player and then the same young player bitterly disappoints for the next 6 months.

I don't remember another time in Tennis where they was very little excitement about any climbing the ranks.

Time please - you're right. Lots of (stuttering) excitement about new players but hard to see who has the consistency to make the really big breakthrough. And has there been "another time in tennis" when so many Slams over so many years have been shared by just three players ?!

However ...... history tells us that the breakthrough can sometimes come when you least expect it and from a totally unheralded name ..... An unseeded McEnroe making Wimby semis was, as we know, the start of something special. And who thought Becker would win the title at just 17 ...?

Rare events but you have to hope that we will see their like again ........... !

lags72 wrote: Am I right in thinking that he has never yet retired from a match (once started) during his professional career ....??

I think so - this is his playing history http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Roger-Federer.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=0 and if you search for the word "RET" you never see it against a loss by Federer. He's given one walkover to James Blake at the Paris TMS QF in 2008.

It is one of TMF's great records imo, and a much under rated facet of his on court sportsmanship.

Murray has the next best record of the top players - I think I am right in saying that he has only retired 3 times, in 2004 in Surbiton against Wang, in 2005 against Malisse in Beligium QFs and 2007 in Hamburg against Volandri. The first one is before he became a pro.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Andy-Murray.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=0#

I honestly don;t see what the fuss about having never retired. It;s nice maybe but that can mean he hasn't tried hard enough and tanked cause he just walked to the finishing line. Either way, I can't see anything wrong with retiring if you know the match is over. In a slam's final, It might be different cause you don't want to ruin the opponents moment but outside such big occasions I can;t see a problem at all...unless of course it happens a bit too often.

The good thing about never retiring or never having to, shows that Federer plays within himself. Now had he retired in that Halle match v Hewitt in 2010, would he have had a better chance to defend Wimbledon? Maybe he was not aware of his pulled muscle while playing but if he was....that wasn't too smart.

time please wrote:It is one of TMF's great records imo, and a much under rated facet of his on court sportsmanship.

Murray has the next best record of the top players - I think I am right in saying that he has only retired 3 times, in 2004 in Surbiton against Wang, in 2005 against Malisse in Beligium QFs and 2007 in Hamburg against Volandri. The first one is before he became a pro.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Andy-Murray.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=0#

Hmm remember the Volandri one, that was when he hurt his wrist badly and was out for a long while. Shame as i recall him playing some great clay tennis just before the injury (I think he was beating Volandri easily at the time) and for me that injury set back his clay court development a few years, as he became afraid to really hit heavy forehands (something he finally seemed to be doing this year).

Tenez wrote: ................Either way, I can't see anything wrong with retiring if you know the match is over. In a slam's final, It might be different cause you don't want to ruin the opponents moment but outside such big occasions I can;t see a problem at all...unless of course it happens a bit too often.

Well different players will have different perspectives on this but clearly Federer has never considered knowing "the match is over" as a respectable reason in itself for retiring, which I'd say is one of the things that sets him apart. He has seemingly embraced a once-you-step-on-court-you-play-to-the-bitter end policy, and I'd say he deserves admiration for that. But of course something dramatic could happen - despite noble intentions and heroic efforts - to make playing quite impossible, and that's what I meant when I said his injury-free record has included some good fortune over the years

From a previous era Jimmy Connors was the ultimate stick it out to the end sort of guy. He could be very arrogant of course and wasn't my favourite player in his day. But I came to respect his dislike (contempt even ...?) for any player eventually using an existing injury as an excuse for defeat, the Connors mantra always being that by stepping on court you declare yourself fully fit to play.

Tenez : interesting also that you mention the loss to Hewitt at Halle. Perhaps Federer did think about retiring that day, but felt that to do so would have taken the gloss off a win that Hewitt (another never-say-die guy in the Connors mould, even though not blessed with his awesome talent) had been fighting for years to achieve ...... having lost about 15 times in a row to Fed

The Hewitt win reminded me of that fantastic quip by Gerulaitis :

"And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row"

– after beating Jimmy Connors at the January 1980 Masters. Gerulaitis had lost their previous 16 matches.

Echo thoughts that it will be a pity of Djoko cannot see out the season. Looks like he did himself in at the USO in the same way that a gruelling four-hour three-setter he had with Nadal on clay in 09 did Rafa in. Murray and Fed should stick around ! Who knows, they could get to one and two if the injuries mount up on Djoko and Rafa.
Just shows how hard it is, in the ultra-physical world that is the men's tour these days, to compete a lot AND stay fit. Have Rafa and Djoko the kinds of game to be able to combine these two things. Possibly not.

lags72 wrote:The Hewitt win reminded me of that fantastic quip by Gerulaitis :

"And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row"

– after beating Jimmy Connors at the January 1980 Masters. Gerulaitis had lost their previous 16 matches.

Yep. Something Connors cannot say!

He was beaten 17 times in a row by Lendl!

Tenez wrote:

lags72 wrote:The Hewitt win reminded me of that fantastic quip by Gerulaitis :

"And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row"

– after beating Jimmy Connors at the January 1980 Masters. Gerulaitis had lost their previous 16 matches.

Yep. Something Connors cannot say!

He was beaten 17 times or so in a row by Lendl!

Though was Geru talking about 13 or so times in a row? checking now....

Was that when Lendl got himself super-fit and waited until Connors was in his mid/late 30s? Presumably Lendl's youth and fitness overcame Jimbo's greater talent. Or overcame his own mental midgetry when he played Connors.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Tenez wrote:

lags72 wrote:The Hewitt win reminded me of that fantastic quip by Gerulaitis :

"And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row"

– after beating Jimmy Connors at the January 1980 Masters. Gerulaitis had lost their previous 16 matches.

Yep. Something Connors cannot say!

He was beaten 17 times or so in a row by Lendl!

Though was Geru talking about 13 or so times in a row? checking now....

Was that when Lendl got himself super-fit and waited until Connors was in his mid/late 30s? Presumably Lendl's youth and fitness overcame Jimbo's greater talent. Or overcame his own mental midgetry when he played Connors.

Nah! That was when Connors bullying attitude stopped to have an effect on the more mature Lendl.

60 60 even in one final. Embarrassing!

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Tenez wrote:

lags72 wrote:The Hewitt win reminded me of that fantastic quip by Gerulaitis :

"And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row"

– after beating Jimmy Connors at the January 1980 Masters. Gerulaitis had lost their previous 16 matches.

Yep. Something Connors cannot say!

He was beaten 17 times or so in a row by Lendl!

Though was Geru talking about 13 or so times in a row? checking now....

Was that when Lendl got himself super-fit and waited until Connors was in his mid/late 30s? Presumably Lendl's youth and fitness overcame Jimbo's greater talent. Or overcame his own mental midgetry when he played Connors.

I'm not sure if agree on Jimbo having more talent. Maybe your knowledge of that tennis period is larger than mine, but from what I've seen Lendl could actually hit a descent forehand, that looks far more like the modern forehand than Jimbo's. IMO mastering good forehand technique is a talent too.

But now to react on the topic: I think Djokovic is physically spent and done for this year. He hasnt been fully fit since Montreal. He would better skip any remaining tournaments, as he is already assured of the number one spot, and I dont see him making much impact anymore this year. Better rest and save him for next year. Those shoulder and back injuries could get chronic otherwise, surely because they are clearly caused by his playing style, not accidents.

Hi Chydremion - nice to meet you!

I too hope that Djokovic rests and that the shoulder doesn't become a chronic prob.

It pains me to say it but Connors would fry Lendl mentally repeatedly. Lendl certainly matured and maybe he'd have overcome that, but Connors also aged and we'll never know whether Lendls maturity and great game would have overcome peak Connors, doing his whole ridiculous thing at the USO.

That first USO final in 1982 between them was depressing, and 1983 was no better. In fact Connors won 3 of their 5 Slam meetings, and Ivan only won the last one in 1992 when Connors was 40, and he even lost the first set then.

I must say that I would love to see a combative but charismatic character like Jimbo in the modern game.

Just think how appreciated he would be on forums the world over