The 2012 predictions

by KeizoYamata Mon 14 Nov - 11:48

First topic message reminder :

Aside from death and taxes these are the other things I am certain of.

1 - No British player would win a major ( English+Scottish+Welsh )

2 - Rory would overtakes a lack lustre Luke Donald and Westwood in the rankings. (Their time is up they had 2 yrs and did nothing)

3 - Tiger is back and wins multiple tournaments and a major or more (The only way is up)

4 - Europe loses the Ryder cup ( Another annex of the Euro crisis albeit smaller)

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 10:42

So, they've only cared twice Diggers?

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 10:58

Did I say that ?

by SpacemanSpiff Tue 15 Nov - 11:33

Must admit, don't buy in to this 'they don't care as much' or 'they don't gel as a team compared to Europe'. There isn't always a reason for a team losing. Look at last year, nothing in it, to try and define a reason other than Europe just edged it and thats the way it is, could easily have gone the other way. You can have all the team spirit you want but it doesn't mean someone won't have an off day. I do think momentum is a help, I think looking at a leader board and seeing your opponents flag leading most other matches must have an effect on your bottle.

by mystiroakey Tue 15 Nov - 12:09

predictions.

donald to win 1, mcilroy to win one, casey to win the masters and tiger the other!

big guess but i have a feeling two out the 4 will come off.

oh and europe will crush USA in the ryder cup

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 15 Nov - 12:28

Sand wrote:
Diggers wrote:Nothing wrong with the yanks spirit in the past few cups, you are just going on history again. They stopped caring for a while, they care a bit more now. Pavin and Azinger got plenty of team spirit from his guys.

They stopped caring? Really? Thats just complete nonsence. No way they werent bothered about being beaten by Europe.

Maybe. Or perhaps they thought all they had to do was turn up to win? To be fair, history tended to support them to that point!

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 15 Nov - 12:34

theeldestboy wrote:This forum would not tolerate blatent rasism or sexism, so why is Keizo's blantent, consistent and incredibly tedious xenophodia tolerated? His absolute hate of anything British and his relentless and without-basis critisism of certain British golfers (who are, by the way, top of the world rankings) shouldn't be allowed. This otherwise intelligent forum is a lesser place because of it, and as always it's the PC pen-pushers who prevent the admins from doing anything about it.

No doubt this post will last about 5 minutes before it's removed!

What? This post is still here? Whatever next?!?

Interesting take on Keizo's posts. At the moment, I'd say he's OK re. this sort of thing. Irritating, but OK. Not to say it's not being watched though...

by Skydriver Tue 15 Nov - 13:04

navyblueshorts wrote:
theeldestboy wrote:This forum would not tolerate blatent rasism or sexism, so why is Keizo's blantent, consistent and incredibly tedious xenophodia tolerated? His absolute hate of anything British and his relentless and without-basis critisism of certain British golfers (who are, by the way, top of the world rankings) shouldn't be allowed. This otherwise intelligent forum is a lesser place because of it, and as always it's the PC pen-pushers who prevent the admins from doing anything about it.

No doubt this post will last about 5 minutes before it's removed!
What? This post is still here? Whatever next?!?

Interesting take on Keizo's posts. At the moment, I'd say he's OK re. this sort of thing. Irritating, but OK. Not to say it's not being watched though...

For what it's worth, I share that view but previously felt I might have been in a minority of 1 and considered over-sensitive. From personal experience, a bit of banter (especially common in sporting context) is absolutely fine, but comments made with prejudice about where I was born/raised (city or country) offend me as deeply as similar statements about the colour of my skin.

It's obviously difficult (at least sometimes) to determine a malicious intention in this way, but again speaking for myself, Yamata-san's contributions often read like that to me.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 13:10

Id say this board wasnt exactly free of sexism. Or at least there is certainly some pretty shabby comments regarding women on here on some of the threads.
Not saying it bothers me but I think it exists.

by drive4show Tue 15 Nov - 13:19

Diggers wrote:Id say this board wasnt exactly free of sexism. Or at least there is certainly some pretty shabby comments regarding women on here on some of the threads.
Not saying it bothers me but I think it exists.

Quite agree Diggers.

Sometimes we do border on what is acceptable in a public, mixed sex forum and we should probably be a little bit more considerate to LP, gael and Mary. I'm sure they all have a fairly broad sense of humour but nonetheless, we shouldn't take liberties.

It's good to have a view from the other side of the ironing board Run

by mystiroakey Tue 15 Nov - 13:21

all boards need different perspectives. Yeah he is anti anything british- I remeber him being much worse on the F1 boards in terms of british talent and the sport itself - so its obvious he has an agenda- but without posters like him boards could get a tad boring.

by Shotrock Tue 15 Nov - 14:13

Hey, it's an opinionated forum. Toughen up.

If S_R can constantly spew his American stereoptypes to and fro, can't you allow Keizo his anti-British rants now and then?

Jeez.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 14:17

Trouble is though, my so called "anti American rants" are usually backed up by fairly blatant examples.

To compare Keizo and myself is absurd.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 14:20

super_realist wrote:Trouble is though, my so called "anti American rants" are usually backed up by fairly blatant examples.

To compare Keizo and myself is absurd.

I agree, that does seem a tad harsh on Keizo...... Run

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 14:22

Do you get your crackers from the same place as Gael Diggers?

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 14:26

I just tell it how I see it Super, if you cant stand the kitchen, keep out of the sauna.

by Shotrock Tue 15 Nov - 14:27

As someone who gets to the UK somewhat frequently, has been incubating a small business there ... I could sure pass along stories that fit into more than one less flattering stereotype!

But why perpetuate things? Painting a society with a brush based on the actions of a few and some extreme examples hardly elevates matters.

Bridges, my man, not walls.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 14:31

Of course you could, and there's a certain amount of truth in most stereotypes, otherwise they wouldn't exist.
I don't think there's any problem in poking a bit of fun with stereotypes at all, the difference between Keizo and myself is that he is on here purely to be provacative and annoy people. He doesn't discuss anything rationally or remotely intelligently.

by McLaren Tue 15 Nov - 14:31

All boards have the likes of S_R and Keizo and we just have to live with it. As long as they dont target one person like S_R did me then there are no issues.

Ocassionaly these semi-WUMS make a good point or get debate going, what more can anyone offer?

As for the UK some of our stereotypes are spot on and the drinking culture is something I feel brings much shame to our nation. I am not particulalry fond of our anti-europe stance either.

by kwinigolfer Tue 15 Nov - 14:37

No-one reinforces American stereotypes like the US media.
Keizo's eforts are second rate compared to the nonsense written and shown day in, day out, year in, year out. Keizo not in the same league as the US TV News Networks, not to mention sports sites like pgatour.com etc.

PS: Time for Simba to return.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 14:38

Mac, please, I don't target you, however you sometimes leave yourself open to a bit of gentle ribbing and are perhaps oversensitive on occasion, and I have sometimes probably been a bit too robust, however at least you have the good grace to take it well and offer plenty more to the forum in general.
Also, I am certainly no more a WUM than you.

by McLaren Tue 15 Nov - 14:40

kwini

Simba is on twiter, I think davie found is account. He is a very strabge boy indeed having seen his twitter activity.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 14:48

kwinigolfer wrote:No-one reinforces American stereotypes like the US media.
Keizo's eforts are second rate compared to the nonsense written and shown day in, day out, year in, year out. Keizo not in the same league as the US TV News Networks, not to mention sports sites like pgatour.com etc.

PS: Time for Simba to return.

That may well be true Kwini. But I genuinely believe that your average person on the street American has very little against anyone from the UK, they may be ambivalent or disinterested or ignorant but they are not anti British.
The same cant in my experience be said of a lot of Brits who genuinely cant stand America/Americans for one reason or another.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 14:54

I'd say there was a pretty even split in the UK. I would say I have a few anti American views, but I don't hate the American's by any means. I probably actually dislike Scots more than I dislike American's.

I'd say you might get a similar split in the USA if they actually knew we existed Very Happy

, trouble is when it comes to their broadcast media, you'll find that virtually nothing of the outside world is ever reported on US News, so you can't blame them for being ambivalent.
Their education system goes a long way to providing the reasons we have these stereotypes.
A young kid from our club is over there right now on a golf scholarship and he has actually been asked if they have TV's in Britain. I don't care what you say, a UK person would never ask anything like that.

Mind you, I think the UK has dumbed down spectacularly in the last 15 years. The general knowledge of the youth of today is pretty appalling these days.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 15:02

Id believe anything of a lot of people ion this country. I speak to people all the time who think say Newcastle is in Scotland. I find the geographical ignorance people have of their own country staggering.
Also the States is the size of Europe, do people in the States know less about their own country than we do about Europe, probably not.

by mystiroakey Tue 15 Nov - 15:05

the typical inaccurate steriotype for a brit is still - bad teeth and bad food.

others have a shread of truth.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 15:07

Geographical ignorance is a pet hate of mine, you should be well informed out of curiosity rather than education, and I think the current youth of today are less informed than ever, both here and in America. I saw an American being interviewed on TV the other day who hadn't even heard of Hungary or Sri Lanka!!.

by mystiroakey Tue 15 Nov - 15:10

Diggers wrote:Id believe anything of a lot of people ion this country. I speak to people all the time who think say Newcastle is in Scotland. I find the geographical ignorance people have of their own country staggering.
Also the States is the size of Europe, do people in the States know less about their own country than we do about Europe, probably not.

well no but thats a slightly unfair comparision- europe is so much more varied culturally than the states.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 15:13

mystiroakey wrote:
Diggers wrote:Id believe anything of a lot of people ion this country. I speak to people all the time who think say Newcastle is in Scotland. I find the geographical ignorance people have of their own country staggering.
Also the States is the size of Europe, do people in the States know less about their own country than we do about Europe, probably not.

well no but thats a slightly unfair comparision- europe is so much more varied culturally than the states.

Maybe but we as a nation fail more than any other to embrace that varied culture.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 15:18

Very true, but I think your average Briton will be better travelled than your average American, so while they may not embrace the culture, they are at least aware of it's existence.

by mystiroakey Tue 15 Nov - 15:19

How do you define that diggers.
The nation that id say is the most stubborn would be france. They do things there way and there way only(on the whole)

The Uk is a very multi cultural country, worldy rather than european granted. We are a very travelled nation. We always have been from the beginning of time. The fact that we speak english is our biggest problem.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 15:22

super_realist wrote:Very true, but I think your average Briton will be better travelled than your average American, so while they may not embrace the culture, they are at least aware of it's existence.

What does better mean...further ? Im not sure that would be true. Im sure a lot of Americans travel as far in the States. Its only 700 odd miles form London to the Costa which as far as your average Brit gets.

by Shotrock Tue 15 Nov - 15:23

Here's a fun read ...

http://www.stephenfry.com/2008/10/10/stephen-fry-in-america/

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 15:26

mystiroakey wrote:How do you define that diggers.
The nation that id say is the most stubborn would be france. They do things there way and there way only(on the whole)

The Uk is a very multi cultural country, worldy rather than european granted. We are a very travelled nation. We always have been from the beginning of time. The fact that we speak english is our biggest problem.

The fact that we choose not to speak any other languages is our biggest problem. I dont imagine a lot of French enjoy speaking English but far, far more do than vice versa.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 15:31

Diggers, I think you are being slightly disingeuous about your average Brit.
In my experience most of the people I know have travelled much further afield than The Costa's.
By better travelled I mean that they have probably travelled to more destinations than your average American has. Sure, you could say they have everything on their doorstep that they need, but it's not very imaginative, inquisitive or exploratort is it?
In terms of the languages though, I agree, we (and America) are wretched at languages.

by mystiroakey Tue 15 Nov - 15:31

diggers the problem is that its not essential for us to speak other languages. This translates as if we dont care when we travel, which although is partially true isnt the underlying reason why we dont speak many other languages. But anyway that is a problem with how we can be potrayed abroad(yanks are potryed in the same way for the same reason)- not if we have cultural ignorance- Which i think is something that many other nations have just as more of if not more of- Living and working in the places and envirmoments i do i rarely meet ignorant people(london south east) but i realise that the council states around me are full of people that are ignorant- but that is the same everywhere else on the planet.

by kwinigolfer Tue 15 Nov - 15:34

My words were deliberately chosen, "No-one reinforces American stereotypes like the US media."
Have been very fortunate in that I've rarely found that sort of institutionally driven dogma first-hand, possibly due to having lived firstly in a City of largely recent (one or two generations) immigrants, and now very close to Canada.
But some News programmes are unwatchable, and America's sports journalism (not to mention most professional sports men and women) reminds one that geography is rarely taught in American schools. Republican politicians tend to be even worse.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 15:36

super_realist wrote:Diggers, I think you are being slightly disingeuous about your average Brit.
In my experience most of the people I know have travelled much further afield than The Costa's.
By better travelled I mean that they have probably travelled to more destinations than your average American has. Sure, you could say they have everything on their doorstep that they need, but it's not very imaginative, inquisitive or exploratort is it?
In terms of the languages though, I agree, we (and America) are wretched at languages.

Super, maybe you dont meet a lot of people from housing estates or lower income people. The vast majority of Brits cant afford to travel abroad these days. Thats why Spain was so popular initially in the days of cheap seats...not anymore.
Wherever most Brits travel they want it to be just like home, whether thats in Spain, Portugal, Greece or even Goa they have managed to ruin an awful lot of places. Its not travelling to them , its going to Britain with a bit of sun thrown in.

by gaelgowfer Tue 15 Nov - 15:45

drive4show wrote:
Diggers wrote:Id say this board wasnt exactly free of sexism. Or at least there is certainly some pretty shabby comments regarding women on here on some of the threads.
Not saying it bothers me but I think it exists.

Quite agree Diggers.

Sometimes we do border on what is acceptable in a public, mixed sex forum and we should probably be a little bit more considerate to LP, gael and Mary. I'm sure they all have a fairly broad sense of humour but nonetheless, we shouldn't take liberties.

It's good to have a view from the other side of the ironing board

Just so as you know d4s, my "broad sense of humour" doesn't run to sexist comments. They're not funny and neither are you.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 15:46

No Diggers, I do not meet many people from that background, but I don't think that those same people represent the most numerous section of the British demographic, hence I don't think they are your "average" Brit.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 15:52

I disagree.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 15:54

Really, you think most people in the UK live in housing estates? On what evidence is that?
You just need to drive around Britain to see that most property is not housing estates.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 16:04

I know that 14 million people officially live on low income or below. My post said low income or council estate.
And the income levels above that do not shoot dramatically up. Most people in the UK IMO cannot and do not go off globe trotting around the world.
I think some 80% of British holidays are to Europe and the vast majority of thsoe are to Spain and France. Hardly far flung destinations, I live about 50 miles from France.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 16:11

Regardless of that though, if your claims are correct, then I doubt the demographic distirbution is any better in America, so while Spain, France and Greece might not be far away in geographical terms, they are more of a cultural shock than visiting Texas from New Mexico.

I imagine most countries have a sizeable proportion on low incomes, but it isn't an excuse for cultural ignorance or a poor grasp of geography.

Besides, 14 million is just 22% of the British population (if UK pop is 62million, which means that the majority of people do not live on low income, and presumably not in council estates.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 16:24

There is absoloultly no culture shock in a British person visiting Malaga. None.
You were taking about what was the largest demographic group, and therefore what represented the average Brit. And as I said people dont jump to vast incomes above low income, the increases are very small.
18% of the UK live in social housing, just about 1 in 5. There are lot of them about.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 16:38

That doesn't make them your "Average" Brit though.
There are a lot of poor people in every country, doesn't make them the demographic majority, certainly not in developed countries like Europe and America.
I can't think of a single person I know who hasn't been abroad to somewhere other than the Costa's.
I'm not saying that it makes a Brit more cultured, just that they have been exposed to more cultures than an American would by not leaving their shores, whether they wish to indulge themselves is a different matter.
There's a lot of egg and chip brigades that you find abroad, doesn't make them the largest proportion from any particular country.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 16:51

We will have to agree to differ then.

by super_realist Tue 15 Nov - 16:53

Fair enough Diggers, we usually do, something would be up if we agreed.
Although we do seem to share a mutual dislike of GFat, so there's a start.

by Diggers Tue 15 Nov - 17:01

Yep, gotta dislike GPud.

by McLaren Tue 15 Nov - 17:04

Super

The cost of flying to Europe from the UK is very small compared to flying from the USA to any other country. Flying within the US is quite cheap so it is no surprise Americans choose not to leave. $1500 to London or $200 dollars to another state, what would you choose?

How often do you go long haul instead of a shorter trip to europe?

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 15 Nov - 17:04

Diggers wrote:I just tell it how I see it Super, if you cant stand the kitchen, keep out of the sauna.

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