Your unpopular Boxing opinion.....

First topic message reminder :

This might go down as the worst idea ever with you lot but fortune favours the brave and all that....

One of the other sections has a thread where people post something they truly believe in but goes against popular opinion. In other words, let us know something outlandish which you believe to be true.

Dont make them up and remember the house rules before you go and tear people apart for their post - remember its their opinion and they are entitled to it.

So for example, you might think that Manny won the fight on Saturday comfortably or that Tyson v Bruno had the best opening round ever - let us hear about it and don't be ashamed! Share with your secrets with us all......

Remember - dont post things just to get a reaction. Only post things you actually believe in.

Off you go!

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

Proof?

Not this again...

azania wrote:Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

If you truly mean that, log off now.

Fists of Fury wrote:Not this again...

Perhaps I should have left it.

Watched the documentary Muhammad and Larry on ESPN over christmas, Ali did not look particularly great on the speedbag in that film, maybe he was rubbish as well.

Herbie Hide > Muhammad Ali.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

“He was never in one spot for more than half a second,” said Gene Tunney, “All my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus.”

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

“He was never in one spot for more than half a second,” said Gene Tunney, “All my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus.”

Said the man fighting an octopus.

Must have been a wrongly attributed Tony Galento quote.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

To be fair he posted it in the correct thread...

Stylistically - Douglas would always have given Tyson a challenge. Sure - he didn't come with m/any backup plans - and when presented by Douglas' style - he failed.

oxring wrote:Stylistically - Douglas would always have given Tyson a challenge. Sure - he didn't come with m/any backup plans - and when presented by Douglas' style - he failed.

Someone with a good jab and footwork will always give Tyson trouble. Watch the foght with Tillis and look how much trouble he was in. He won that fight 6 rounds to 4. After he knocked out Holmes, Larry said that a good jab or a bad woman would beat Tyson. He got both.

But I maintain that if he was the tyson of 'old' throwing combos with frightening intensity he would have beaten Buster. After Rooney he became reliant on single punched to get inside where he threw slow combos. Buster wouldn't let him get inside or within punching range. He kept the distance brilliantly and Tyson was reduced to a Haye-esq ambush raids.

And that jab. Jeez. The man had it going on that night, thats for sure.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

“He was never in one spot for more than half a second,” said Gene Tunney, “All my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus.”

These are the guys who thought ducking a punch was tantamount to cowardice and cheating.

rowley wrote:Watched the documentary Muhammad and Larry on ESPN over christmas, Ali did not look particularly great on the speedbag in that film, maybe he was rubbish as well.

Herbie Hide > Muhammad Ali.

Yep. He saved it for the opponent's head when it mattered.

Hide > Jeffries

coxy0001 wrote:Alex

There's a bit of a myth with that one. As Douglas' trainer said if Tyson hadn't trained properly he wouldn't have been able to take the stuff Douglas dished out.
Douglas himself was possessed and not going to be denied, he refused to be intimidated by Tyson and basically broke him.

Douglas was always an enigma who was thought of to be a wasted talent and lacking focus. That fight simply proved that when he got himself targeted was a force to be reckoned with, that and Tyson could be beaten if you stood up to him and actually hit him rather than worrying about what big hook he was going to throw next.

Or it showed Tyson's strength to take such a prolonged beating when he was undertrained.

Buster had the talent but never the minerals. That night he found his minerals and everything clicked and turned on. Unfortunately for Tyson he was switched off.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

“He was never in one spot for more than half a second,” said Gene Tunney, “All my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus.”

These are the guys who thought ducking a punch was tantamount to cowardice and cheating.

Sure, Tunney was a crude brawler.

Really nice to have you back, az. You're a nice fella and you never get into the nasty stuff. It's just a pity that you didn't actually watch some pre 1960s boxing while you were away so that you might have an occasional clue as to that which you are talking about.

Can't understand how a guy with such a good grasp of modern boxing can make himself appear such a clown when he comments on the older stuff.

Windy

I disrespectfully disagree with you. Its post war boxing and Dempsey.

Tunney was unique in that he actually utilised a jab occassionally and figured out that you are allowed to move your head to make the opponent miss.

Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

In answer to the thread.

Windy should be prevented from putting Azania in a guillotine?

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

Bert Sugar rates him highly. I will spend a little time searching for some of his fights. But from what I have seen of these guys, they move similarly to claymation characters. Think Wallace and Gromit. Talented as they may have been, they lack the skills that developed over time. Plus their level of competition was a joke to be polite.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

Bert Sugar rates him highly. I will spend a little time searching for some of his fights. But from what I have seen of these guys, they move similarly to claymation characters. Think Wallace and Gromit. Talented as they may have been, they lack the skills that developed over time. Plus their level of competition was a joke to be polite.

That's advances in television - not advances in boxing az.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

Bert Sugar rates him highly. I will spend a little time searching for some of his fights. But from what I have seen of these guys, they move similarly to claymation characters. Think Wallace and Gromit. Talented as they may have been, they lack the skills that developed over time. Plus their level of competition was a joke to be polite.

That's advances in television - not advances in boxing az.

Ha. You've become pretty sharp since I've been away. What happened?

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

Bert Sugar rates him highly. I will spend a little time searching for some of his fights. But from what I have seen of these guys, they move similarly to claymation characters. Think Wallace and Gromit. Talented as they may have been, they lack the skills that developed over time. Plus their level of competition was a joke to be polite.

To be polite, you wouldn't know, since you've never researched the period. Harry Greb has probably the best record in the history of pro boxing.

Anyway, I'm off for the night so I guess we'll need to pick this up tomorrow. If history ( colour, of course, ) is anything to go by I could log off till next summer and find you still banging away on this tired old drum.

Have a great evening, one and all. I'm off for a Horlicks and a dozen valium.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

Bert Sugar rates him highly. I will spend a little time searching for some of his fights. But from what I have seen of these guys, they move similarly to claymation characters. Think Wallace and Gromit. Talented as they may have been, they lack the skills that developed over time. Plus their level of competition was a joke to be polite.

To be polite, you wouldn't know, since you've never researched the period. Harry Greb has probably the best record in the history of pro boxing.

Anyway, I'm off for the night so I guess we'll need to pick this up tomorrow. If history ( colour, of course, ) is anything to go by I could log off till next summer and find you still banging away on this tired old drum.

Have a great evening, one and all. I'm off for a Horlicks and a dozen valium.

Goodnight my Friend - still need to sedate that whopper with Valium? Alex must be drooling at the mouth.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

Bert Sugar rates him highly. I will spend a little time searching for some of his fights. But from what I have seen of these guys, they move similarly to claymation characters. Think Wallace and Gromit. Talented as they may have been, they lack the skills that developed over time. Plus their level of competition was a joke to be polite.

That's advances in television - not advances in boxing az.

Ha. You've become pretty sharp since I've been away. What happened?

One year older and 12 months closer to finals mate.

Anyway - apologies if this is brusque - I'm off to training tonight and have a car-load of people nagging me.

Rhonanai mate - and put this into a separate debate thread! That way you'll give more of the forum a chance to disagree with you/more chance to make it 3/100 !

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Tunney had the skills, smarts, speed, upper body movement, punch variety and toughness to start him as favourite against any lightheavyweight or cruiser fighting today.

He took an absolute pasting from Greb, first time out, and many believed he lost their second encounter also.

Bert Sugar rates him highly. I will spend a little time searching for some of his fights. But from what I have seen of these guys, they move similarly to claymation characters. Think Wallace and Gromit. Talented as they may have been, they lack the skills that developed over time. Plus their level of competition was a joke to be polite.

To be polite, you wouldn't know, since you've never researched the period. Harry Greb has probably the best record in the history of pro boxing.

Anyway, I'm off for the night so I guess we'll need to pick this up tomorrow. If history ( colour, of course, ) is anything to go by I could log off till next summer and find you still banging away on this tired old drum.

Have a great evening, one and all. I'm off for a Horlicks and a dozen valium.

Have a great evening. But as you know records are meaningless when your opponents can barely lace a pair of gloves.

Well, they didn't have the advances in lacing technology that're available today...

Scottrf wrote:Bruce Forsyth is shot.

Hahaha, seriously what is up with this guy? Does his:

a) play along with the notion that he's being set up as a point of ridicule just because he loves the sound of an audience laughing (at) with him

or, more worringly

b) still think he's relevant

TumblingDice wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Bruce Forsyth is shot.

Hahaha, seriously what is up with this guy? Does his:

a) play along with the notion that he's being set up as a point of ridicule just because he loves the sound of an audience laughing (at) with him

or, more worringly

b) still think he's relevant

Who, Scott?

BALTIMORA wrote:

TumblingDice wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Bruce Forsyth is shot.

Hahaha, seriously what is up with this guy? Does his:

a) play along with the notion that he's being set up as a point of ridicule just because he loves the sound of an audience laughing (at) with him

or, more worringly

b) still think he's relevant

Who, Scott?

Nice anolgy

Mike Tyson wasn't all of a sudden past his prime after 1990 at 24!

Both fighters should be made to wear the same coloured gloves ! Red ones without them mumbo jumbo logos printed on them!

Any fighters dancing on the way to ring, or wearing any cosmetics (sunglasses ect) Should be immediately fined there purse.

Referees over the last 15 years have stopped the fight far too early, you can stun someone these days a win a TKO

Box nation has been a great so far plenty of action and stacked with fights and people should stop worrying about if it goes bellies up who cares enjoy boxing whilst its get broadcasted, who gives a fig whose in the studio bleating on, I just like watching boxing

Some usually unpopular feelings of mine.

Good to see we've stopped going round in circles about the old timers at last.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

Dear me, this is a joke surely? Greb was one of the finest practitioners of the sport ever to step into the square circle.

and we are back to circles ladies and gents!

Colonial Lion wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Alex.

In time my young padowan, you will agree with me more often!

2 down, 998 to go.

Sorry Az - you've lost me today. Buster gave Tyson one hell of a mauling - and stylistically would have given anyone a challenge.

Anyway - I'm more concerned because you picked Tony Sibson to beat Greb and Ketchel.

So you're back on 1.

I haven't said anything different. Buster was from another planet that night. Unfortunately so was Tyson.

Greb et al couldn't hit a stationary speed bag without someone holding it for them.

Dear me, this is a joke surely? Greb was one of the finest practitioners of the sport ever to step into the square circle.

To be honest it is not even worth debating. I am more than happy to accept many, myself included can be accused of over rating the old timers, will also happily accept pre 1920's the view that the skillset was less developed or that people can be too willing to make allowances for losses of old timers they do not make for modern guys, all are valid views worthy of debate and response. However to say the likes of Greb or Ketchel would lose to Sibson is just moronic. The fact they are expressed in a polite manner or from someone who is quite coherent on other issues does not make them any less moronic or worthy of debate.

I can't believe anyone can think a pro boxer can't use a speed bag. I look pro on one.

Scottrf wrote:I can't believe anyone can think a pro boxer can't use a speed bag. I look pro on one.