New Scotland Captain - Ross Ford

First topic message reminder :

Although Kellock has, in my mind, done a good job so far, I think it’s time for someone else to step up to the plate. He’s no longer guaranteed a start and having you’re national captain sitting on the bench doesn’t really make sense. I’d like to see someone like Brown or Barclay given the chance. We need someone who is going to be an automatic choice for each game no matter who we’re playing.

So what do you think? Who should be the next Scotland captain?

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I'd prefer chunk over Ford.

Ford is too........nice. Chunk wouldn't think twice about shoving a rocket up their erchies is things were going wrong.

Lamont - no way. He smiles way too much during a game.

I think Weir could be future captain material even though Robinson prefers a scrum half in the hot seat.

I agree with you about Weir, he captained Scotland in the JWC and although I didn't see it apparently he did very well & seemed quite a natural captain, I would be happy with Ford, Brown or Cusiter as captain, going on Cusiter's form for Glasgow at the moment he should be the starting scrum-half

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Kelly B might not be as surefire a bet as you might think as he's got a barnstorming Rob Harley fighting to get a shot at a full cap this year around.

I don't think Gray has the temperament to be a captain, he can be a very lazy player at times, especially in ruck defence and gets pinged for not rolling away.

Ross Ford, for his little flaws in the lineout, is a top quality hooker, and has all the potential to be a great captain. Although it must be mentioned how Rob Harley has reacted to being made captain at the start of the year and how well he has done! And Kellock isn't even guaranteed at the minute for Glasgow. Tom Ryder is playing well and Al isn't lasting the games althought whether that has something to do with the WC hangover I'm not sure!

It isn't so much that Al Kellock isn't lasting the games, Glasgow have been trying to give Tom Ryder game time so pretty much every week either Kellock or Gray gets taken off to allow Tom Ryder to play. Before the 1872 cup Gray had been subbed off 2/3 times in the previous weeks

Big Dave, agree a ludicrous decision by Robinson along with others. So much for his mantra of only picking form players as he has lied before. If he is 'taking a punt' on Danielli then why not Beattie ? Robinson is a monumental tw:censored:t as a selector. I am beginning to think his time is up.

He's taking a punt on Danielli and there are very few good options on the wing. He isn't taking a punt on Beattie because he has Denton, Brown and Vernon already in his squad, and McInally and Wilson in reserve. I think it's really more about the depth available in certain positions.

As far as wing options go, he's picked Rory Lamont (injured and hasn't played enough to show any form), Lee Jones (who has had a pretty mixed season frankly), Max Evans (playing but not showing much form) and Joe Ansbro (now injured and more typically a centre). I guess looking at that crew he had a choice to make. Pick Colin Shaw, a solid but utterly unspectacular player with no international experience (I also suspect he'll lose his place at Glasgow now that Seymour is back fit), or pick Danielli, a proven finisher at every level but a player who is off form, having been used (horrible decision) at 15 by Ulster this season.

Personally I'd have been happy with Evans, R Lamont, Ansbro and Jones as options and picked either King or Scott in the squad (which would free up Sean Lamont as a wing option), but as a choice between Danielli and Shaw, I'd go with Danielli every time.

Riskysports wrote:Ok, not to throw a curve ball in

How about Hamilton - with Hines retiring, i would expect him to be first choice with either Grey or Kellock. He has improved his game and actually works hard and is a solid player

He also is a talker (if you watch the Glo matches you will see it is him leading the huddles and doing the talking on the pitch) - which I feel Bracley, Brown and Ford lack

Just wanted to throw that out and see what u guys thought

Totally agree! I think Big Jim should always be picked to start for Scotland and would be a great choice for captain! Our scum doesn't function without him. He's got 34 caps under his belt and he would be a great motivator.. good choice Riskysports

Just a random thought to chuck in to the mix, but havent our two more recent GS winning sides both been captained by looseheads, first Jim Aitken, then David Sole? Time for Chunk to take the arm band?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Just a random thought to chuck in to the mix, but havent our two more recent GS winning sides both been captained by looseheads, first Jim Aitken, then David Sole? Time for Chunk to take the arm band?

Chunk is a legend. He gets through a mountain of work, always plays well and is guaranteed his start
I just don't like the fact he always seems to pop up at 12 when Edinburgh are rumbling through the phases. That being said he tends to make more ground than Morrison.

He's not a captain for me thou asbo.

Lidlaw? seemed to do well with Edinburgh today.

If you re good enough you are good enough :-)

Not really a serious suggestion but maybe for the future

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Just a random thought to chuck in to the mix, but havent our two more recent GS winning sides both been captained by looseheads, first Jim Aitken, then David Sole? Time for Chunk to take the arm band?

Chunk is a legend. He gets through a mountain of work, always plays well and is guaranteed his start
I just don't like the fact he always seems to pop up at 12 when Edinburgh are rumbling through the phases. That being said he tends to make more ground than Morrison.

He's not a captain for me thou asbo.

problem with chunk is that refs cant understand him. the Pans accent is just too thick for anyone south of the border.

oh and I agree with the other comment above. If Laidlaw has indeed just played himself into the 10 shirt, you could do alot worse than have him captain the squad.

Great selection to make Ross Ford captain. First on the team sheet, in rare form

Hopefully he can bring enough 'voice' to the role, but for me a good choice

hopefully he'll be more successful than Gordon Bulloch was!

So! Ford get's the captaincy after Brown is ruled out of 6 nations due to injury! What are people's thoughts? I think he's a good choice, he has been very consistent, only mistakes I've seen him make are a few loose balls and some bad lineouts from time to time, but overall I think he has the potential to be a good captain! Considering Edinburgh's form I think it is appropriate for an Edinburgh player to be handed the captaincy.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Just a random thought to chuck in to the mix, but havent our two more recent GS winning sides both been captained by looseheads, first Jim Aitken, then David Sole? Time for Chunk to take the arm band?

His first action to get yellow carded as he thinks being Captain gives him even more right to mouth off the the ref - no thanks

Delighted for the lad V good choice imo, he's been playing extremely well for Embra, and has improved immensely since the last Lions tour to SA

And importantly, presumably he won't be substituted at 60mins for now on.

He is one of the few players behind Kelly Brown who is guaranteed to start so makes sense.

I'm pretty happy with the choice and hoping it means we will only see Scott Lawson if Ford got injured. My concern is that Robinson will carry on replacing Ford at 65/75mins. Would prefer the Captain to be on the pitch for the whole game.

Great shout I think - will lead from the front and that's what you need against England.

Not much of a public speaker though....

Ford?

On sunday I saw hi take the pack aside and have good few words with them a couple of times so obviously a leader for Edinburgh

Other than that I don't know. No hugely obvious candidates i would say

Good point, MacKnocked - no more Scott Lawson

I think with Brown being a doubt Ford probably edged it. He is guaranteed to start, has no real competition for his jersey and his form this season has been excellent.

I think he'll make a good job of it.

Interesting to publicly state that it was meant to be Kelly Brown but cause he's injured they'll have to settle for someone else!

Looking forward to hearing Ross Ford trying to explain something to a French ref!

I genuinley think Ross Ford is a great appointment. He's now something of a grizzled Veteran despite being only 27 years old. In truth he was the only choice, his position is assured and he is a good leader both in terms of chat and by example.

The team is going to be full of leaders and talkers though, S Lamont, Blair, Hamilton, Stroks, Kellock, Murray to name a few. Ford I reckon will do a great job, what is an unknown quantity is dealing with the press, pre and post match interviews, he does seem a little camera shy.

Fordy can learn to speak to the media. Robbo, Johnson and Tooney will take the pressure off him and they do quite a lot of that anyway.

That said I'm not sure media work was too much of an issue, Kelly had a major stammer to get over and used to absolutely hate speaking to the media. Its a credit to the lad that he was asked to captain his country after overcoming it.

Scottish Optimist wrote: My concern is that Robinson will carry on replacing Ford at 65/75mins. Would prefer the Captain to be on the pitch for the whole game.

Robinson will tell him to pass the armband to Parks / Godman when he does the double substitution of 2 and 10.

Interesting piece about the captaincy in today's Herald:

"Scotland captaincy: only starters need apply

by Kevin Ferrie, Senior Sports Writer

As Andy Robinson demonstrated he has learned one lesson the hard way when it comes to selecting a captain, Scotland's head coach was having to take another on board yesterday when he found himself sitting alongside a man who was not his first choice for the job this time around.

Ross Ford will lead the team on to the pitch against England and into the entire RBS 6 Nations Championship partly because he is one of relatively few automatic choices for the starting XV, something Al Kellock was not when he was made World Cup captain a few months ago.

Though not involved in the first squad Robinson selected on becoming coach 2½ years ago, Kelly Brown is another who would now be certain to start and that had informed the decision to give him the job before he suffered a nasty knee injury on Sunday that has ruled him out of the campaign.

Given that national captains should take the field believing themselves to be very special figures among special groups of men, it is unfortunate that the offer had been made to Brown and that others had been told about it. There was surely no real need for Ford, a British & Irish Lion who has captained Edinburgh in the past, to know he was anything other than the man the management wanted to put in charge, albeit no-one could quibble with Robinson's view that: "The experiences that Ross has had in the last few years have been able to unlock the potential and make him the man you see here now.

"I've named him as captain for the Six Nations. In the last couple of years he's developed within the leadership group, spoken very well particularly in the areas of defence and set-piece and this is the next challenge for him.

"We discussed it and I'm delighted he's agreed to take this challenge on.

"I have every confidence in him and the way he will approach this, Ross will do it his way, which is important and the added thing, the reason why I think he'll make such a good captain is that he'll lead from the front, he works right up in the coal face.

"We've got leadership spread through the group. Not just about the captain in the decision-making process, I've explained that before. This is what we've worked at for a long time and it will support Ross. He'll need to lead and to do it in his way and that's down to him to explain and execute."

"I've captained Edinburgh at the end and start of the season and have a 100% record, so that's not too bad," Ford pointed out encouragingly, before adding: "I think I'm at the stage where I'm comfortable doing it, confident in my abilities and what I have to say . . ."

Not exactly one who is throwing webbed feet and feathered underbelly into the torrent then, but therein lies the problem.

As has been pointed out in these pages before, the most natural leader in the squad is Kellock, but even though he was statistically the best player in his position going into the final round of Heineken Cup matches he is not, depending on the opposition, necessarily going to be in the team which must leave him doubly disappointed at being relieved of the captaincy.

That the handover could conceivably have been handled better, just as there had already been problems with the initial squad selection when it transpired that proper checks had not been made as to whether Steve Shingler was eligible to play for Scotland, only reinforces concerns that, great coach that he is, Robinson still has something to prove on the management side.

In little more than two years as Scotland coach which began indecisively with the naming of co-captains, he has asked six different players to lead the team, three of them scrum-halves – Chris Cusiter, Mike Blair and Rory Lawson – and three of them forwards – Kellock, Brown and Ford.

Does that matter? In thinking about this, the names of the seven men to have led their teams to World Cup glory – David Kirk, Nick Farr-Jones, Francois Pienaar, John Eales, Martin Johnson, John Smit and Richie McCaw – tripped off the tongue.

In the same period, it is just as easy to name the leaders of the British & Irish Lions – Finlay Calder, Gavin Hastings, Johnson again twice, Brian O'Driscoll and Paul O'Connell – while sticking closer to home the last three Scots to lead championship-winning teams were Jim Aitken, David Sole and Gary Armstrong.

A wide array of different characters and approaches may be encompassed among those lists, but few would argue that many of these men were not seen by their peers as first among equals when appointed.

Robinson is nothing if not honest and self-critical and pretty much acknowledged that a mistake was made at the World Cup.

"It was part of the debrief after the World Cup," he admitted. "We wanted a captain and not chop and change, so we needed a captain who was guaranteed a place in the starting team."

In terms of the overall impact on the team, it is probably less of a blow to lose Brown than Ford, simply because of the available cover in the back-row, albeit options are fast reducing at No.8.

Perhaps the greatest concern of all for Robinson, though, is that the greatest asset for anyone involved in sport is to be lucky and once again the timing of all of this suggests he has not been.

Meanwhile, almost as if synchronised, no sooner had Robinson named his captain than a painful reminder of that selection blunder was provided when it was announced that Steve Shingler's older brother Aaron had been called into the Wales squad training in Poland.

Confidence does, however, seem to be growing that, having established their point of principle regarding the status of their under-19 side, the Welsh may not fight too hard when the younger Shingler's specific case goes to appeal and he will be allowed to switch to Scotland."

A couple of things:

1. It was my view, and the view of a few on here, that Kelly Brown was the right choice of captain. Robinson obviously thought so too. That he made his decision, informed the players and then had the misfortune of Brown getting injured is not Robinson's fault, nor anyone's fault. These things happen, and I applaud the honestly in making that known. The players knew, so why not just put it out in the open, rather than having rumours leaked. Not sure what "lesson" Robinson is supposed to be learning in this episode.

2. Mr Ferrie then goes on to say that the men he lists as great captains were seen as "first among equals" when appointed, to somehow highlight that Robinson has screwed this up. A nice comfortable simplistic view. Great teams have great captains. However:

- Martin Johnson was not first choice captain for England under Woodward, Dallaglio was. When Johnson was made captain he knew he was second choice.

- Paul O'Connell is also not a "first among equals" captain. He doesn't captain Ireland, BOD does. In fact when POC captained the Lions he wasn't on great form and BOD, his nations captain, was. If you had picked that Lions team on form, the second row would have been Shaw and Wyn Jones for the first test.

- Was Gary Armstrong a great "first among equals" Scotland captain? A great player certainly, and a leader in the side, but Sole captained the grand slam team, Armstrong took over afterwards. During that tenure many fans believed Redpath to be the better option at 9, and in fact Armstrong was ultimately dropped for Wainwright to accommodate Redpath (a sharper passer) in the team.

3. Does Kevin Ferrie think Robinson himself was tasked with reading through the complex and silly IRB rules on eligibility and forming a view, or does he think an SRU employee, possibly a lawyer, was consulted to form a view? I suspect that Robinson intimated that he wanted to pick Shingler, asked the SRU to investigate and confirm that it was ok, was given the green light, and picked him.

4. Yes, I agree that Robinson has been unlucky at times. Scotland were certainly unlucky to lose to Argentina in the World Cup, and I personally don't think there was anything wrong with the preparation and coaching for that game. The tackling for the key try, and the execution of the drop goal, came down to individual errors from the players. Robinson is unlucky in the sense that too few Scotland fans appreciate that.


It's a shame that Mr Ferrie has taken such a simplistic and factually inconsiderate approach to this. What Mr Ferrie should just say is: "I don't like Robinson. I don't want him to be coach." It would take up less column inches and be less embarrasing for Mr Ferrie personally and for the Herald for promoting him to a "senior" sports writer position.

funnyExiledScot wrote:A couple of things:

1. It was my view, and the view of a few on here, that Kelly Brown was the right choice of captain. Robinson obviously thought so too. That he made his decision, informed the players and then had the misfortune of Brown getting injured is not Robinson's fault, nor anyone's fault. These things happen, and I applaud the honestly in making that known. The players knew, so why not just put it out in the open, rather than having rumours leaked. Not sure what "lesson" Robinson is supposed to be learning in this episode.

2. Mr Ferrie then goes on to say that the men he lists as great captains were seen as "first among equals" when appointed, to somehow highlight that Robinson has screwed this up. A nice comfortable simplistic view. Great teams have great captains. However:

- Martin Johnson was not first choice captain for England under Woodward, Dallaglio was. When Johnson was made captain he knew he was second choice.

- Paul O'Connell is also not a "first among equals" captain. He doesn't captain Ireland, BOD does. In fact when POC captained the Lions he wasn't on great form and BOD, his nations captain, was. If you had picked that Lions team on form, the second row would have been Shaw and Wyn Jones for the first test.

- Was Gary Armstrong a great "first among equals" Scotland captain? A great player certainly, and a leader in the side, but Sole captained the grand slam team, Armstrong took over afterwards. During that tenure many fans believed Redpath to be the better option at 9, and in fact Armstrong was ultimately dropped for Wainwright to accommodate Redpath (a sharper passer) in the team.

3. Does Kevin Ferrie think Robinson himself was tasked with reading through the complex and silly IRB rules on eligibility and forming a view, or does he think an SRU employee, possibly a lawyer, was consulted to form a view? I suspect that Robinson intimated that he wanted to pick Shingler, asked the SRU to investigate and confirm that it was ok, was given the green light, and picked him.

4. Yes, I agree that Robinson has been unlucky at times. Scotland were certainly unlucky to lose to Argentina in the World Cup, and I personally don't think there was anything wrong with the preparation and coaching for that game. The tackling for the key try, and the execution of the drop goal, came down to individual errors from the players. Robinson is unlucky in the sense that too few Scotland fans appreciate that.


It's a shame that Mr Ferrie has taken such a simplistic and factually inconsiderate approach to this. What Mr Ferrie should just say is: "I don't like Robinson. I don't want him to be coach." It would take up less column inches and be less embarrasing for Mr Ferrie personally and for the Herald for promoting him to a "senior" sports writer position.

+1

I have to agree with FES on this one.

Robinson almost certainly informed the players that Brown was his 1st choice to skipper Scotland in the 6N when the team was initially announced. His unfortunate injury meant his hand was forced and Ford who I assume was appointed Vice Captain knew it was now his time to captain Scotland. I reckon this would have got out somehow so better to have it come from Robbo himself instead of a press leak.

Ford has handled the transition with grace, dignity and respect for Kelly Brown who must have been bitterly disapointed to miss captaining his country on his 50th cap.

Robbo has learned from the world cup by picking a player who's name almost certainly appears first on everyones team sheet. I do feel sorry for Al Kellock, he is a great player. He runs a water tight lineout, never lets anyone down, makes his tackles, encourages and is almost the complete package for a skipper. It's just Jim Hamilton brings more bulk and Richie Gray brings more spark. Kellock is a great player to have on the pitch but can't captain a team in which his position is not guarenteed.

Ford was the right choice in the absence of Brown and I think Robbo was right to come out and say what he has said.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have to agree with FES on this one.

You say it so begrudingly

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have to agree with FES on this one.

You say it so begrudingly

isnt that how everyone agrees with you?

Imperialbigdave wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have to agree with FES on this one.

You say it so begrudingly

isnt that how everyone agrees with you?

+1

Imperialbigdave wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have to agree with FES on this one.

You say it so begrudingly

isnt that how everyone agrees with you?

+1
+1