England Second Rows for the EPS

First topic message reminder :

With the fairly poor show that was the world cup now over, and the RFU's policy coming into play regarding picking only home based players, what do you all think of the second row situation for the upcoming EPS? My concern is that international experience and/or talent in the engine room is looking a bit thin. That's not to mention the hooker situation with Thommo's retirement.

So far if we accept that Palmer and Shaw are now over and out, we are only left with Deacon and Lawes making up the second row situation. I believe there needs to be four in the EPS? I've never been a great fan of Deacon although his Six Nations was pretty reasonable; Lawes always looks like he'll make a superb player but is still in need of some refining; then who...?

The Options:

Botha - As close as a like for like replacement for Shaw as there is, but to my mind not quite of international standard and we're back to the old EQ debate again.

Skivington - Hasn't been playing badly for Tigers since back from injury but again is he really up to the required level? Good lineout forward though.

Borthwick - A serious regression if he's included in my opinion, excellent lineout but as effective going forward as the proverbial paper bag.

Parling - Injured currently, perhaps serious, but has looked excellent since coming back at the start of the season. He is though 28 now and is he really an option to take us through to the world cup?

Kitchener - Is he injured? Made a few appearances for Tigers at the start of the season and didn't impress Cockerill certainly.

Kennedy - Again good lineout forward, some questionmarks over his work around the field, not a great carrier.

Attwood - Looked better each week at Bath and scored a great try against London Irish in the Jeff. Does he do enough of the grunt though?

Anyone else lurking around, any young talent coming through the ranks? Savage at Gloucester, but he is young. Be interesting to know what everyone thinks as to this key element of England's future.

I dont want Wood and Croft in the back row though.

Wood is simply a must then Robshaw .

Croft and Wood can't operate in the same backrow I don't think. They'll be too lightweight, unless you have a monster of an 8 who can carry like a titan. Wood does the grunt work at the breakdown and carries well. At the moment, I'd take Wood over Croft. The prospect of a Wood/Robshaw backrow combo is mouth-watering...

Thats what i would like to see Vedder...but will the coaches take a chance....i hope so.

I honestly think Lancaster will. I think he'll take a lot of chances during the 6N to be honest- what's he got to lose? He's a short term manager and so I think he will really push some of these youngsters. At least, that's what I hope!

GF who would you like to see at 8?

bluestonevedder wrote: what's he got to lose?

5 games, his dignity, repuatation and any chance of continued employment by the RFU?

looking at the stats (i know they dont mean everything)

if you're going for lineout options in the second row:
robson
kennendy
borwick
are the right men

for a big carrier:
attwood
lauchberry

but top of the stats in almost every department, suprisingly is:
chris jones at worcester...

remember him being touted many moons ago

bluestonevedder wrote:I honestly think Lancaster will. I think he'll take a lot of chances during the 6N to be honest- what's he got to lose? He's a short term manager and so I think he will really push some of these youngsters. At least, that's what I hope!

GF who would you like to see at 8?

Mate i would honestly go with Easter. He might not be the very best, but i actually rate him alot higher than many on here do.....plus he's experienced...and there aint many other options at present...

GeordieFalcon wrote: Mate i would honestly go with Easter. He might not be the very best, but i actually rate him alot higher than many on here do.....plus he's experienced...and there aint many other options at present...

I'd agree with you on that one. Easter for the short term, I think he would add a good level of experience in the backrow. His off-loading game is good too, and with the right sort of runners in the starting squad, we could see him flourish! ...........we can all dream.

HQ matt wrote:looking at the stats (i know they dont mean everything)

if you're going for lineout options in the second row:
robson
kennendyborwick
are the right men

for a big carrier:
attwood
lauchberry

but top of the stats in almost every department, suprisingly is:
chris jones at worcester...

remember him being touted many moons ago

Out of that group, i would have the highlighted.
Kennedy is a big lad...and is getting through lots of work aswell as the lineout.

What about Kennedy and Garvey?

Interesting that people are still knocking Croft despite him having a cracking game against Clermont. He was everywhere in defence and popped up for a couple of good midfield surges as well.

Kennedy is a big lad...and is getting through lots of work aswell as the lineout

Still don't rate him. He just doesn't seem to be an imposing lock and even if you are running the lineout you still need to make a mark in the loose (that was where Borthwick failed as well). I'd go for Robson of Quins at the moment, he runs the Quins lineout well and with Robshaw and Easter likely to be in the team as well he'll be working with people he knows. Might well make promising hooker Joe Gray's step up a good deal easier as well.

Not a fan of Kennedy in the slightest, Parling would be my immediate choice after Lawes. At least he's got a bit about him