Ulster vs. Munster, Ravenhill, 30th Dec 7:05pm

by Don Alfonso Tue 27 Dec 2011, 11:57 am

Now that Leinster vs. Ulster (and all the attendant hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth) is over, we can focus on Ulster's second derby this week - Munster at Ravenhill.

Most of the team is fairly guessable - McAllister, Kyriacou, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Henry, Wannenburg, Pienaar, Humphreys, Gilroy, Cave, D'Arcy, Terblanche.

Without any updates on injuries, I'm in the dark beyond that. I don't know how exactly the back-line will shape up, although I hope Whitten's in at twelve and D'Arcy's on the wing. I have no idea how the back-row will work, with Ferris at Ireland camp, Faloon and McComish injured, and Diack and the two youngsters having played already this week. If Barker's okay, maybe he'll start at five and Touhy move to six?

If Faloon, Marshall and Danielli were fit and healthy, that would get us out of a hole.

What will Munster's line-up be on Friday? Anyone want to hazard a guess? POM, Murphy, Hurley, Botha, du Preez all likely to be in the first VX? Who will be in second row? Who will play at outhalf?

by **Notch** Tue 27 Dec 2011, 1:00 pm

Since when is Faloon injured? He's named in the squad this week.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/9963.php

I'd say we're looking at;

1. McAllister
2. Kyriacou
3. Afoa
4. Muller (c)
5. Tuohy
6. Wannenburg
7. Faloon
8. Henry
9. Pienaar
10. Humphreys
11. Gilroy
12. Whitten
13. Cave
14. Terblanche
15. D'Arcy

by Ulsterexile Tue 27 Dec 2011, 6:36 pm

What is happening with Faloon? I know that Henry is above him at the minute but without game time he isn't going to get that experience that he needs. Some people say he isn't that big for a 7 Neil Back springs to mind. He has all the attributes, but needs game time to prove his critics right or wrong. Me I think he has got it but needs a regular run.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 27 Dec 2011, 7:15 pm

Ulsterexile wrote:What is happening with Faloon? I know that Henry is above him at the minute but without game time he isn't going to get that experience that he needs. Some people say he isn't that big for a 7 Neil Back springs to mind. He has all the attributes, but needs game time to prove his critics right or wrong. Me I think he has got it but needs a regular run.

Agreed.. I rate Faloon highly.

by **Notch** Tue 27 Dec 2011, 7:18 pm

I think it's pretty much certain that Faloon will start against Munster.

Furthermore, if Faloon was selected ahead of Chris Henry we would read much the same comments but with the word Henry replaced with Faloon! I like Faloon and I'm looking forward to seeing him get some gametime against Munster.

by Don Alfonso Tue 27 Dec 2011, 7:32 pm

In fairness, Henry has had a great run this season. And if Faloon starts on Friday, it would indicate he's held in higher regard than Diack (who is getting poorer and poorer)

if Kaino did come, I'd like to think that between he and Ferris doing all the heavy lifting, Faloon would feature more.

On Friday, I'd rather see Terblanche at FB, and see the benefit if all his experience on the counterattack.

by **Notch** Tue 27 Dec 2011, 7:38 pm

Yes, I would not mind that at all Don. Danielli is also in the running to start now, unless it was an injury that ruled him out on Monday?

by Ulsterexile Tue 27 Dec 2011, 8:45 pm

Notch,
I hope Faloon does start. BM just needs to give him a run. Shame about Diack loss of form very intelligent player, good hands. I would like to see PW, RD, and Faloon in the back row their skills should compliment each other but they need to be on top form.

by Standulstermen Tue 27 Dec 2011, 9:24 pm

Faloon to my mind should be our 4th backrower. Henry has been a revelation since roundabout the connacht game, im not certain we have had a more consistent performer.

It will be good if Faloon gets some gametime. To be honest looking at the squad i would like to see Birch get the bench spot and possibly Nelson aswell.

Pienaar and Humph at half back with any combination of

Cave, Terblanche, D'arcy, Gilroy, Whitten/Danielli in the backline. Im not sure what SD adds from the bench so i see no issue in rewarding some of the younger guys. I dont think Diack deserves to be retained and in fairness to big Neil McComb he had a good game yesterday. Shame he is a lock.

by **rodders** Tue 27 Dec 2011, 9:42 pm

Standulstermen wrote:Faloon to my mind should be our 4th backrower. Henry has been a revelation since roundabout the connacht game, im not certain we have had a more consistent performer.

I agree. Henry has been our best player this year along with Ferris and Paul Marshall. I don't think McGlaughlin has done a great job of squad rotation though. Faloon should really have seen more game time.

by **Notch** Tue 27 Dec 2011, 11:03 pm

On a sidenote rodders, I think our best player so far has been Henry by a distance. Ferris hasn't played enough and Marshall had a disastrous run of games near the start of the season despite how well he was playing until the Leinster game.

The depressing thing so far is how hard it is to pick any player compared with this time last year. The majority of our players have stepped it up in Europe in a big way but in the league? Yikes.

by **Notch** Tue 27 Dec 2011, 11:49 pm

More on topic, I'm finally sick of the Faloon stuff. Think about this;

I would view our selection in the light of the disastrous collapse of form and confidence we had in the Pro 12. During the World Cup we had to rely on our squad players, on our depth. And it started as well as we all believed it could. But one defeat away to the Ospreys... it was a disintegration of epic proportions.

A team that had won three consecutive games with a good brand of rugby couldn't complete a single pass. Combinations across the field did not fire. Basic skills executed well in the opening few games seemed to desert our players overnight. And there wasn't enough leadership or experience on the field to rectify it.

The team needed all its leaders on the pitch as much as possible, it needed more consistency of selection to develop those combinations and it needed a serious infusion of confidence.

The last one of those only comes from winning. But if you think about the previous two... that would be why I think we haven't seen that much rotation and the likes of Johann Muller, Rory Best and Chris Henry have played as much as possible.

I think your looking at why one player isn't being selected, instead of why our teams have been selected. Because I don't think selection decisions are made in isolation. Just like sporting success isn't about how well players do in isolation. I'm pretty certain both of those guys will actually get a chance against Munster. Big points to prove; Faloon fans watch this space.

On the other hand, maybe Faloon will be excluded from the 22 and I will be forced to revise my theories entirely. Maybe he ran over McLaughlins dog? Who the feic knows Smile

Rant over.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 28 Dec 2011, 12:08 am

6) Ferris
7) Faloon
8) Henry

This is the best backrow Ulster have to offer IMO. Henry I believe is best at 8, then 7. For the Munster match I would love to see this, with Wannenburg over Ferris due to the IRFU policy.

by Standulstermen Wed 28 Dec 2011, 2:14 am

Notch

I accept what you say regarding using Henry and Wannenburg but Diacks selection in front of Willie earlier this season looks more and more ridiculous. The fact remains gallon was dropped entirely from 3 squads and then brought back in for the Clermont game. I do think selection has been an issue

by Rava Wed 28 Dec 2011, 12:10 pm

I got to talk to Faloon earlier in the season when he was left out of the squad against Cardiff (I think).
I asked him if he was disappointed not to be involved and he said of course but Robbie (Diack) and Mike (McComish) had been brilliant in training and really deserved their places in the squad.
That's what we don't see - the training. Players can impress (or not) during training and influence a coaches thinking.
I think Henry has been Ulster's best player for a lot longer than the Connacht game as mentioned above. Certainly since the middle part of last season, apart from a couple of games, he has been very consistent.
I also think Ulster supporters are wrong about Wannenberg. He isn't a Ferris but how many poor performances has the guy had for Ulster? Not that many. If Kaino is interested then obviously we should try to sign him if we can afford him. If not then I'd give Wannenberg another two years.

by **Notch** Wed 28 Dec 2011, 12:19 pm

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/9915.php

Munster Squad: Johne Murphy, Denis Hurley, Sean Scanlon, Luke O'Dea, Danny Barnes, Simon Zebo, Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams, Tomas O'Leary, Tom Gleeson, Will Chambers, Scott Deasy, Lifeimi Mafi, Marcus Horan, Wian du Preez, John Ryan, Stephen Archer, D Kilcoyne, BJ Botha, Denis Fogarty, Sean Henry, Damien Varley, Billy Holland, Mick O'Driscoll, Ian Nagle, Niall Ronan, Dave O'Callaghan, Tommy O'Donnell, Denis Leamy, Paddy Butler, James Coughlan,

The article on the Munster website says Barnes is rested, yet he is named in the squad. I expect he won't play then?

In terms of international players missing Munster have Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Conor Murray, Ronan O'Gara and Keith Earls missing whilst Ulster are missing Tom Court, Rory Best, Stephen Ferris, Paddy Wallace and Andrew Trimble. All of those players could easily be in the 22 come the Six Nations- I wonder what plans are being laid by Kidney and his lieutenants over this Christmas period.

I'd say we'll see a new centre partnership altogether for Munster with Chambers and Mafi in there, and a new front row as well. It's going to be some battle in the scrums on Friday with John Afoa, BJ Botha, Wian Du Preez and Paddy McAllister all expected to return.

by Don Alfonso Wed 28 Dec 2011, 1:58 pm

Did Keatley not play a full eighty on Monday? And is POM still injured? Interesting to see Leamy hasn't been called up for Ireland duty.

If Munster are going to field some of the same players from Monday, they'll have to be pretty judicious in their use of subs.

by **Notch** Wed 28 Dec 2011, 2:35 pm

Yes, but of course we've named some of our squad from Boxing Day. Although I wouldn't expect to see any of them starting.

There doesn't seem to be another clearcut contender at 10 in the squad for Munster though I believe Scott Deasy is a capable outhalf and we might see him there. Probably paired with Duncan Williams at 9.

All guesswork. We'll have to wait until tomorrow. Though O'Mahony is definitely still missing injured.

by Rava Wed 28 Dec 2011, 2:50 pm

Notch, why would you start with Terblanche on the wing? He's a full-back who can play centre. Certainly doesn't look to have the pace to play on the wing.

by **Notch** Wed 28 Dec 2011, 3:16 pm

It's not my selection it's my guess of who will be picked where. Terblanche has won 2 caps for Ulster, both on the wing replacing Andrew Trimble. And he's played quite well there to boot.

Back three will interchange anyway so if both D'Arcy and Terblanche start I would prefer D'Arcy to stay at fullback because he is so effective at counter-attacking and reading the game from 15. Terblanche has average pace but a lot of nous and game intelligence so will play well anywhere whereas D'Arcy would take quite a bit of time to adjust to the wing. We have two out and out pace merchants in the back three alongside him and the alternative is the increasingly sluggish Danielli.

So, those are my arguments. Even though I didn't advocate it in the first place. Though I suppose there is an element of wishful thinking in every guess or argument I make so I sort of did Smile

by red_stag Wed 28 Dec 2011, 5:52 pm

A guess for the Munster team:

01 Marcus Horan
02 Denis Fogarty
03 BJ Botha
04 Ian Nagle
05 Mick O'Driscoll
06 Denis Leamy
07 Niall Ronan
08 Paddy Butler
09 Tomas O'Leary
10 Ian Keatley
11 Johne Murphy
12 Lifeimi Mafi
13 Danny Barnes
14 Luke O'Dea
15 Denis Hurley

16 Damien Varley
17 Wian du Preez
18 Stephen Archer
19 Billy Holland
20 James Coughlan
21 Duncan Williams
22 Scott Deasy
23 Sean Scanlon

by **Notch** Wed 28 Dec 2011, 5:55 pm

That would be a pretty strong team.
It'll be interesting if Munster name a team with a good few players who played on Boxing Day against an Ulster side who haven't played since beating Aironi in Italy on the 17th.

The received wisdom that players struggle to perform in back to back games due to the physical demands versus the received wisdom that players need to be out there every week to keep up that game sharpness... which truism is truer?

by **rodders** Wed 28 Dec 2011, 6:18 pm

Rava wrote:Notch, why would you start with Terblanche on the wing? He's a full-back who can play centre. Certainly doesn't look to have the pace to play on the wing.

I agree Rava he looks pretty slow from what I've seen. The brain is there but the wheels are gone.

This is a must win game now, our league position is pretty woeful and McGlaughlins decision to wave a white flag on boxing day means its all or nothing here. If we win then the descision to field such a weakened side will be justified, otherwise questions need to be asked.

The forecast is pretty bad I think so this one could be a real arm wrestle.

by red_stag Wed 28 Dec 2011, 6:21 pm

I'm wondering have Munster mismanaged their second rows. Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callaghan and Donnacha Ryan are unavailable due to IRFU. However I'd have thought we could have got one of them ready for this game.

by Rava Wed 28 Dec 2011, 7:00 pm

Stag, there is an Irish training camp taking place at the weekend. All the Internationals will be there.

by Don Alfonso Wed 28 Dec 2011, 7:11 pm

That is a pretty decent Munster team, but we should be able to put out a team that would beat them, never mind the fact that MOD, Keatley, Ronan and Fogarty all played 70+ minutes on Monday.

If we lose, we really should hang our heads in shame. Especially at Ravenhill. We're mentally fragile enough that it might happen, but it would be galling. We need everyone to step up. This is Munster at home, and we have already effectively thrown the Leinster game to have the advantage in this one. Let's have some intensity!

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 11:25 am

Notch wrote:I'd say we're looking at;

1. McAllister
2. Kyriacou
3. Afoa
4. Muller (c)
5. Tuohy
6. Wannenburg
7. Faloon
8. Henry
9. Pienaar
10. Humphreys
11. Gilroy
12. Whitten
13. Cave
14. Terblanche
15. D'Arcy

Boom! Called it.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/9964.php

Ulster: (15-9) A D'Arcy; C Gilroy, D Cave, I Whitten, S Terblanche; I Humphreys, R Pienaar (1-8) P McAllister, A Kyriacou, J Afoa, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, P Wannenburg, W Faloon, C Henry

Replacements: (16-23) N Brady, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, A Birch, P Marshall, C Farrell, P Nelson

No Barker or Danielli- still suffering from the stomach bug that ruled the Scotsman out of the Boxing Day game and forced Barker off after 20 minutes. Birch gets the bench spot ahead of Robbie Diack too.

by Standulstermen Thu 29 Dec 2011, 11:31 am

Congrats to Birch, Farrell and Nelson. Well deserved.

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 11:45 am

"It's a huge game for it, it's at Ravenhill and it's against Munster. When the fixture list came out we were not very happy with the fact that we had a four day turnaround but we just have to manage the scheduling as best we can." said McLaughlin.

We want to put our best team out on the pitch as often as we possibly can, but Irish Management Programme looks after the Internationals and we have to look after the rest of the players as well so we took the decision, and it was not taken lightly, to run two separate squads for two games."

Ulster Captain Johann Muller is looking forward to the match

"It's a big game and I don't have to say a lot to lift the guys for it, we all know that the games between Irish provinces are the big games for the team . This week training has been outstanding, a lot of energy, there's nothing like a week off to refresh the body and mind and get everyone really keen to play rugby again.

We know what's coming, we know Munster are an outstanding team but we're at Ravenhill, we have a great record there and we want to keep it that way.

Munster's strength is their consistency - it doesn't matter what tournament they play in, they're always there or thereabouts. They are a team that never says die, that's the Munster that I've got to know over the last 18 months or so, they are always there and if they don't win they'll always get a losing bonus point. Consistency is a key for them, and as a squad it's something we can learn from."

by **rodders** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 11:51 am

Muller is a very smart guy. Munster is the team we should be trying to emulate in terms of their consistancy, commitment and attitude. Their ability to grind out results is phenomenal and thats what we need to strive for.

This will be an incredibly tough match and even with home advantage it will take a massive performance to win this one. Munster will relish coming to Ravenhill and will be confident of getting the win.

Good shout on the team Notch.

by Standulstermen Thu 29 Dec 2011, 11:57 am

We should be beating this Munster team. Yes they wont give you anything but this is at Ravenhill and we need to win this in order to justify the two squads used this week. I suspect McLaughlin and co will get it in the neck massively if they dont win.

by **rodders** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:01 pm

I agree 100% stand, we MUST win this game but Munster will be coming to win this one too for sure. This will take one of our best performances of the season to win this I think.

If we lose then the descision to field such a weakened side against Leinster will have backfired so there is big pressure to deliver a result here.

by Don Alfonso Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:09 pm

"Boom!", Notch?

I have to say, you are much more "street" than I had previously envisaged.

Fair play on calling the team, though. And absolutely delighted for Birch, Farrell and Nelson. You're quite right - McL is anything but conservative. Baffling yes, conservative? No.

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:10 pm

Hah, "street". Hmm, I'm not so sure about that!

by marty2086 Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:12 pm

Notch wrote:
Notch wrote:I'd say we're looking at;

1. McAllister
2. Kyriacou
3. Afoa
4. Muller (c)
5. Tuohy
6. Wannenburg
7. Faloon
8. Henry
9. Pienaar
10. Humphreys
11. Gilroy
12. Whitten
13. Cave
14. Terblanche
15. D'Arcy

Boom! Called it.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/9964.php

Ulster: (15-9) A D'Arcy; C Gilroy, D Cave, I Whitten, S Terblanche; I Humphreys, R Pienaar (1-8) P McAllister, A Kyriacou, J Afoa, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, P Wannenburg, W Faloon, C Henry

Replacements: (16-23) N Brady, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, A Birch, P Marshall, C Farrell, P Nelson

No Barker or Danielli- still suffering from the stomach bug that ruled the Scotsman out of the Boxing Day game and forced Barker off after 20 minutes. Birch gets the bench spot ahead of Robbie Diack too.

Is it just Ferris at the training camp?

by **rodders** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:13 pm

Trimble and Best too I think.

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:17 pm

All five of our Ireland players will be there. Ferris, Best, Trimble, Court, Wallace.

Munster team from Twitter;

Hurley O'Dea Gleeson Mafi Murphy Keatley Williams WdP Varley Archer Nagle O'Driscoll Dave O'Callaghan ODonnell Coughlan

by Standulstermen Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:36 pm

set piece will be interesting here.

I have seen MOD and more recently Nagle destroy our lineout at ravenhill. Add to that Kyri's erratic throwing and Munster have the edge here. Scrum should be well in our favour though with no BJ for Munster. I would expect our pack to have the edge in the loose and it will be a big test for Williams against Pienaar.

We have to put the horror show from a year ago to bed against these guys. Everyone knows Munster wont lie down or give the opposition anything.

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:37 pm

I'd expect an operator as experienced as Muller to not get caught out twice by an opposition lineout. Expect a lot of variation in our calls.

by Backrower678 Thu 29 Dec 2011, 12:38 pm

Fair play to Brian for rewarding the young guns who performed well against Leinster, team as expected otherwise can not wait for this game its going to be epic a must win to get us in the mood for those other 2 'small' matches in January ;-)

by clivemcl Thu 29 Dec 2011, 3:40 pm

I'm out of the country guys. Can anyone tell me if the match will be streamed anywhere other than BBC / rte?

by Thomond Thu 29 Dec 2011, 3:45 pm

You have mail Clive.

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 3:49 pm

Online digital pimp, hard at work Whistle

by Thomond Thu 29 Dec 2011, 4:23 pm

shut up Notch, you didn't complain when you got them Wink

by clivemcl Thu 29 Dec 2011, 4:25 pm

Thomand you helped me out before. I actually love you... Hug

by Thomond Thu 29 Dec 2011, 4:35 pm

Most people do

Spoiler:

by Rava Thu 29 Dec 2011, 4:46 pm

Two things.
First thing this is the strongest possible team we can put out against Munster given the Irish Training call-ups and injuries. If we don't win it will be because we are not good enough and nothing to do with two squads being picked for the two provincial games therefore I cannot see how McLaughlin & Co. will get it in the neck (Stand)? Unless of course you are assuming this team would have won in Dublin on Monday Shocked

Second thing! Notch, you smug barsteward, well done in getting the starting XV almost spot on. Rolling Eyes

Terblanche will be wearing 11 and Gilroy 14 Whistle

Thomond! I suppose it would be a waste of time asking for that link as I'm going to be at the game anyway Smile

by Rava Thu 29 Dec 2011, 4:49 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Ulsterexile wrote:What is happening with Faloon? I know that Henry is above him at the minute but without game time he isn't going to get that experience that he needs. Some people say he isn't that big for a 7 Neil Back springs to mind. He has all the attributes, but needs game time to prove his critics right or wrong. Me I think he has got it but needs a regular run.

Agreed.. I rate Faloon highly.

Heard that one before a few times.

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 5:08 pm

Thomond wrote:Most people do
Spoiler:

Feeling unappreciated mo chara? Hug

by **Notch** Thu 29 Dec 2011, 5:12 pm

It wasn't too hard to guess this week though really? Did anyone not foresee the only 15 players missing last week but not injured or Ireland internationals, conveniently one in each position of a rugby team, missing out again? Smile

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