another concerning issue for the WRU over Steven shingler

welsh-matfield wrote:
another concerning issue for the WRU over Steven shingler
by welsh-matfield Yesterday at 15:18


Over the past six months Wales have lost three young players under the age of 22 to Ireland and Scotland respectively with James loxton, Matthew Jarvis and now Steven Shingler pledging there international loyaltly elsewhere. why it was only a couple of months ago steven shingler was stating his desire to break into the welsh squad http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15773032.stm. this is a concerning issue, especially as wales pool of depth is often so small and although the acadamies are thriving other nations seem to be taking advantage of this fact

rugbydreamer wrote:He played for the U20's Wales team in the 6N's last year. Now I always get confused with Welsh Qualification, but doesn't that mean he's WQ and can't play for anyone else?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:This is what happenes when you sign for an Irish team in England. As a Welshman you inevitably end up playing for Scotland.

Knowsit17 wrote:This puts the maturity of Ben Morgan into perspective. Knew who he wanted to play for and stuck with it, didn't just decide to play for someone for the sake of playing int'l rugby.

Knowsit17 wrote:This puts the maturity of Ben Morgan into perspective. Knew who he wanted to play for and stuck with it, didn't just decide to play for someone for the sake of playing int'l rugby.

Glas a du wrote:Why say it, or even think it then, Knowsit?

Its not that he'd be a better outside half than Priestland (which he is) Biggar, Tovey or even Weir and Jackson, but, that he is the answer at 12 that Scotland have been praying for.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:This puts the maturity of Ben Morgan into perspective. Knew who he wanted to play for and stuck with it, didn't just decide to play for someone for the sake of playing int'l rugby.

Hmm some would argue thats exactly what he did by taking Englands offer after rejecting it the first time Lancaster asked him because Gatland had told him he'd be competing with Faleteau for the Wales job after the WC.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Why say it, or even think it then, Knowsit?

Its not that he'd be a better outside half than Priestland (which he is) Biggar, Tovey or even Weir and Jackson, but, that he is the answer at 12 that Scotland have been praying for.

If that is truly the case, Glas, then he may come up against Matt Scott in the future and get more than he bargained for competition-wise!

Ive been wondering whats been going on with this issue. Connaght recently poached a academy player each off the Ospreys and Blues with the view of them playing for Ireland due to Irish ancestry instead of Wales. The WRU pointed out after the players had signed that both players have Wales U20 caps and Wales have classified the U20 as their A team with the IRB, hence both players are locked to Wales.
Ireland now intend to take the WRU to the IRB to rule on the issue of whether Wales can class their u20 team as their A team.
Personally I think Wales will win this issue as it common knowledge Wales class their U20 team as their A team.
Regardless of whether you Call it an U20 team or an A side each country has to nominate their second team and Wales along with several other countries including France use their U20 team.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynatio ... -28885563/

Toby Faletau is unwittingly at the centre of an eligibility row between Wales and Ireland.

The Wales No 8, who made his debut against the Barbarians a fortnight ago, finds himself embroiled in an eligibility dispute which the International Rugby Board has been asked to rule on.

Two of Faletau’s Wales Under-20s team-mates, Matthew Jarvis and James Loxton are dual-qualified for Wales and Ireland.

Former Ospreys back Jarvis and Blues rookie Loxton agreed contracts with Irish province, Connacht, earlier this year only on the understanding they were eligible to play for Ireland.

But the Welsh Rugby Union stepped in and notified their Irish counterparts at the Irish Rugby Football Union that the two youngsters were already committed to Wales, having played alongside Faletau for the Wales Under-20s.

The WRU claim that the Wales Under-20 side is now their second-string side, with the A-team being disbanded, and that any player who plays at that level commits themselves to Wales.

But it is claimed that Faletau, who was born in Tonga but has resided in Wales since the age of seven, was the only player told his appearance for Wales Under-20s committed his Test future to Wales.

While Loxton, who qualified for Ireland through his mother, and Jarvis, who qualifies via an Irish grandmother, claim they were never told playing for Wales Under-20s committed them to Wales.

Jarvis and Loxton played for the Wales Under-20s against France in February of last year.

But the crux of the matter is whether the WRU notified the players at under-20 level, in writing or otherwise, that they would be committed to Wales.

The French Rugby Federation could also hold the key to the resolution of an increasingly bitter dispute and whether they deem their under-20s to be their second-string or A-side in the match against Wales.

If the French agree their under-20s were not their second string, it means Jarvis and Loxton are eligible to play for Ireland and, of course, still Wales.

But whatever the reason behind both players being cleared to take up their contracts in Ireland, it does raise questions when the WRU decided the under-20’s are their designated second team and how they notify their players?

Gerry Kelly, Connacht chief executive, has revealed he believes Faletau was told he would commit himself to Wales by playing in the game, while Jarvis and Loxton claim they weren’t.

“Everybody knows that if you play for a national side or the A side of a country you are then committed to that country,” said Kelly.

“It transpires that these lads played for the Wales Under-20s, when Wales did not have an A-team.

“Wales claim the under-20s were their next senior team and that would have made the two boys, who played for them, ineligible.

“However, for that to happen, you must play against another team, which is an under-20s side which has been declared as that country’s second team.

“It appears that didn’t happen.

“They were also suppose to inform the boys that they would be no longer eligible for any other country if they played in that team.

“I understand they did inform one player – Toby Faletau – who played but they didn’t tell James of Matt.

“James and Matt and their parents are very anxious that they can play in Ireland and we are assuming that will happen.

“Cardiff and the Ospreys are letting the boys come to us with their blessing but the hold up here is at WRU level.

“But this is good for Wales and Ireland because the boys still have dual eligibility for both countries.”

A WRU spokesperson claimed that the Wales Under-20s was a ‘designated’ second team since Wales A had been disbanded.

“The Wales Under-20s has been the WRU’s officially stated ‘second senior registered team’ since the Wales A-side was disbanded in 2003,” said a WRU spokesperson.

“Under IRB rules, Regulation 8, a player is nationalised for Wales by playing for the U20 team against any other nation which has also designated the U20 side as their ‘second senior registered team’.

“Players are also automatically Welsh qualified by representing either the senior XV or senior 7’s team in a recognised international.

“It is common practice for nations without senior A teams to nominate U20 teams as second senior registered teams and the Wales U20 team has been the sole second senior registered team option for Wales since the A team was disbanded.

“The regulatory committee of the WRU will consider any IRB finding or recommendation related to a review of individual inquiries before deciding on any concluding course.”

But Kelly also revealed that the pair – Jarvis and Loxton – had unofficially been given the all clear by the IRFU to take up their contracts with Connacht.

He admitted the WRU was dragging it’s feet over the issues but the IRB is expected to ratify the players dual nationality for Wales and Ireland.

“My understanding is that the IRB has cleared the boys to play and that they are still eligible for Ireland and Wales,” said Kelly.

The IRB refused to comment on the issue until a final decision has been reached and is ratified by a full council meeting in the next month.

maestegmafia wrote:He wasnt actually playing that well for Scarlets or the U20s. So not a huge loss. Looks good at London Irish though.

Glas a du wrote:Only if he played against France who also treat their U20's as an A side apparently. Does the fact it is his mother rather than grandmother make a difference?

Morgannwg wrote:Glas a Du, did our Alyn Davies really write that?

REGULATION 8. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR NATIONAL
REPRESENTATIVE TEAMS
8.1 Subject to Regulation 8.2, a Player may only play for the senior fifteen-aside National Representative Team, the next senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team and the senior National Representative Sevens Team
of the Union of the country in which:
(a) he was born; or
(b) one parent or grandparent was born; or
(c) he has completed thirty six consecutive months of Residence
immediately preceding the time of playing.
8.2 A Player who has played for the senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team
of a Union is not eligible to play for the senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team
of another Union.
8.3 For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for
the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior
fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:
(a) He is selected for such team to play in an International Match against
the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next
senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union
(or in a fifteen-a-side international Match against another Union’s
senior or next senior Touring Squad during an IRB approved
International Tour) and is present at the Match played by that team
either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of that team
and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority; or
(b) He is selected to represent a Union’s senior Touring Squad on an
International Tour which includes an International Match or Matches
approved by the IRB and is present at any fifteen-a-side Match
played on that International Tour either as a replacement, substitute
or a playing member of a team selected from the Union’s senior
Touring Squad and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of
majority; or
(c) He is selected to represent a Union’s next senior Touring Squad on
an IRB approved International Tour and during that International REGULATION 8
94
Tour he is present at a Match against the senior fifteen-a-side
National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side
National Representative Team of another Union either as a
replacement, substitute or playing member of a team selected from
the Union’s next senior Touring Squad and has, at the time of the
Match reached the age of majority.
8.4 For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for
the senior National Representative Sevens Team of a Union if he is
selected to represent a Union’s senior National Representative Sevens
Team in an International Match against the senior National Representative
Sevens Team of another Union and is present at the Match played by that
Team either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of that Team
and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The reason Shingler being selected for Scotland seemed odd to me was there was some fuss back end of last season about the fact that due to Wales not having an A team, the U20s were their reckognised second side, and as such if you wore the Welsh U20s jersey you were no longer elegable for another nation.

As a side note, I was born in England, but would never have classed myself as anything but Welsh, so if he does feel he is Scottish fair play to him.

Spidey, again isn't your situation more akin Ben Morgan's than to Shingler's - SS was born in Wales and lived there for his formative years, but he also qualifies for a different nation thru parentage?

rugbydreamer wrote:I would assume so, Cymro. France don't have an A side so the U20s would have to be it, wouldn't it?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Before anyone critices him for choosing scotland I have lived in England all my life but I wouldn't dream of playing for them. It's not that easy to be dual qualified. You're always going to disappoint someone. I say fair play to the lad.

mckay, sounds akin your situation is more like Ben Morgan's? Shingler qualifies thru a parent

munkian wrote:Isn't his Brother Aaron a much better prospect for Wales anyway ? Lets hope he see's the light.

Cymroglan wrote:Has France agreed that their U20s is their A side ?