Pick Your Ireland Squad for the Six Nations

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Pick your squad for Ireland in the Six Nations, and you could win the chance to be in a long, boring, meaningless argument with Sin E and/or rodders. Call now!

Here's my effort;

PROPS
Cian Healy, Mike Ross, Tom Court, Tony Buckley, Paddy McAllister
HOOKERS
Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Damien Varley
LOCKS
Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
BACKROW
Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry
SCRUM HALF
Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray, Isaac Boss
OUTHALF
Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton
CENTRES
Gordon D'Arcy, Paddy Wallace, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave, Keith Earls
BACK THREE
Luke Fitzgerald, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Rob Kearney, Gavin Duffy

Captain; Paul O'Connell
Vice-Captains; Rory Best, Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton, Jamie Heaslip

Additional Players to feature for Ireland A but not the squad for the tournament proper;

Stephen Archer, Mike Sherry, Shane Jennings, Mike McCarthy, Paul Marshall, Ian Madigan, Nevin Spence, Simon Zebo, Craig Gilroy

Artful_Dodger wrote:Dan Tuohy should be in the main squad any day - ludicrous that he isnt.

He isn't in the full squad so he can get game time.

This is not the final squad.

If he impresses for the Wolfhounds he wil move up. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

I doubt it Geoff - I struggle to see Kidney having him in the 6N squad under any circumstances, I think he will give the Munster locks first preference. Tuohy has impressed for Ireland before such as in the tour to New Zealand and discarded for little reason.

If he plays well for the Wolfhounds and Kidney does select him I will stand corrected.

I know its not the final squad but its not easy to have faith in a coach who doesn't think Paul Marshall is in the top 4 Irish scrum halves, thinks that Gavin Duffy offers more than Craig Gilroy or Adam D'arcy and still thinks that Geordan Murphy is international standard.

Maybe Kidney should spend more time watching the players who are actually playing well and hungry and less time trying to talk over the hill players like ROG and Murphy out of retirement.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I doubt O'Malley is going to be the next 13 honestly. He doesn't look it to me. He has attacking prowess but his physicality and defensive duties are lacking heavily. Griffin played much better than him in the Connacht/Leinster game. And I believe Spence is a better prospect than the both of them.

Sure thats what this forum is all about Rory. Differing opinions and the reasons(provincial bias included) - behind them. Imagine if we all agreed?

Nightmare.com

Can people please understand why certain players are where they are.
A lot of the angst on here is being caused by ignorance of the selection procedure.

The Senior squad consists of 3 types of players:

1. Those pencilled in to start the first 6N game
2. Those who have extensive experience who will gain no tangable benefit from playing the Wolfhounds but will still provide backup and help the younsters along e.g. POC
3. Younster who are seem as potential internationals and are going along for the experience but will not be considered e.g. McAllister, Nagle, Zebo

The Wolfhounds squad consists of 2, maybe 3, types of players

1. Experienced players to provide a little experience to balance out the youth of the side e..g Boss, Duffy
2. Those on the fringe of the first XV being given game time to show what they can do AND WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE FIRST TEAM SQUAD IF THEY PERFORM
3. Some, maybe, filling in, in position where we are short and maybe we dont have youngsters ready yet e.g. Wilkinson


If you understand that the selection makes far more sense

geoff998rugby wrote:Can people please understand why certain players are where they are.
A lot of the angst on here is being caused by ignorance of the selection procedure.

The Senior squad consists of 3 types of players:

1. Those pencilled in to start the first 6N game
2. Those who have extensive experience who will gain no tangable benefit from playing the Wolfhounds but will still provide backup and help the younsters along e.g. POC
3. Younster who are seem as potential internationals and are going along for the experience but will not be considered e.g. McAllister, Nagle, Zebo

The Wolfhounds squad consists of 2, maybe 3, types of players

1. Experienced players to provide a little experience to balance out the youth of the side e..g Boss, Duffy
2. Those on the fringe of the first XV being given game time to show what they can do AND WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE FIRST TEAM SQUAD IF THEY PERFORM
3. Some, maybe, filling in, in position where we are short and maybe we dont have youngsters ready yet e.g. Wilkinson


If you understand that the selection makes far more sense

Far to sensible a post for here...you arent buying into the hysteria Geoff.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16615488.stm
Ireland squad: Rory Best (Ulster), Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Tom Court (Ulster), Sean Cronin (Leinster), Leo Cullen (Leinster), Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster), Stephen Ferris (Ulster), Cian Healy (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster), Shane Jennings (Leinster), Rob Kearney (Leinster), Fergus McFadden (Leinster), Conor Murray (Munster), Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), Paul O'Connell (Munster), Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Jonathan Sexton (Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ulster), Paddy Wallace (Ulster)

Do you guys seriously only have two props? What if one gets injured during a game, or is that part of a 'tactic?' Suprised at some inclusions to be honest, Cullen and DOC.

Morgan; There are three props in that list, and this isn't our final Six Nations squad.

Kidney never does name his squad for the 6N. He operates on a revolving door basis. Every week a different squad alongside the same core players.

DOD wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Can people please understand why certain players are where they are.
A lot of the angst on here is being caused by ignorance of the selection procedure.

The Senior squad consists of 3 types of players:

1. Those pencilled in to start the first 6N game
2. Those who have extensive experience who will gain no tangable benefit from playing the Wolfhounds but will still provide backup and help the younsters along e.g. POC
3. Younster who are seem as potential internationals and are going along for the experience but will not be considered e.g. McAllister, Nagle, Zebo

The Wolfhounds squad consists of 2, maybe 3, types of players

1. Experienced players to provide a little experience to balance out the youth of the side e..g Boss, Duffy
2. Those on the fringe of the first XV being given game time to show what they can do AND WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE FIRST TEAM SQUAD IF THEY PERFORM
3. Some, maybe, filling in, in position where we are short and maybe we dont have youngsters ready yet e.g. Wilkinson


If you understand that the selection makes far more sense

Far to sensible a post for here...you arent buying into the hysteria Geoff.

+1

Thats how Kidney always does it. It covers all options.He's a Cute Hoor that way. Wouldnt play poker with him.

I wonder if the highlighted bit is true though? They would want to have some game to make it to the Final 30.

From a purely Leinster POV, Im looking at ye - Fitzy and Toner.

Other provinces POV on this one?

Didn't RTE say this morning that Cullen is going to be out of 6N because of a shoulder operation
Also no Cave - is he injured or is just DK's usual conservatism - Cave was probably best Irish threequarter in the Heino games last weekend, very impressed with him

Cave is out for six weeks, came off injured against Leicester.

brennomac wrote:Didn't RTE say this morning that Cullen is going to be out of 6N because of a shoulder operation
Also no Cave - is he injured or is just DK's usual conservatism - Cave was probably best Irish threequarter in the Heino games last weekend, very impressed with him

Id expect Tuohy to replace him. He deserves it. Also, its the perfect time for Cullen to recuperate - during the 6-N. He will be back for the HC QF. Happy with that.

Not happy that Cave - who has been brilliant, has missed this chance. He'll have more.

Notch wrote:Morgan; There are three props in that list, and this isn't our final Six Nations squad.

Kidney never does name his squad for the 6N. He operates on a revolving door basis. Every week a different squad alongside the same core players.

I thought Tom Court was a hooker for a moment... Me being dull again. Wales will likely have a fresh front row on the bench (hopefully, and on form it is Gill, Owens, Mitchell). I would have put DOC, Cullen, D'Arcy maybe a couple of others into the Wolfhounds. The younger guys learn from them. Promote Tuhoy, Toner, etc to the senior squad. That way you'd have a pretty good 2nd team. Or perhaps they all train together?

That's what I do, unlike Kidney I like to mix and match.

There are only 24 contenders for the starting 22 in the first team squad (with Cullen's departure). Some of the Wolfhounds will definitely step but only AFTER their game.

As I said early 6 to 8 of them will join according to performances

Right, now that everyone has calmed down and finally read/listened to Geoff the voice of reason.

There isn't anything really surprising here. Think of all the things people have been saying since the World Cup. We have been putting forward various suggestions for various positions but always, always recognising that Kidney wouldn't make wholesale changes. Well surprise surprise, he hasn't. Some guys are fortunate and some are not. Provincially we can argue the fors and againsts but ultimately we will have to go forward with what he has decided.

With regard to the Spence's, O'Malleys etc. I hope they grasp their chance well with the Wolfhounds. That's the only way we will see any possibility of a new face making the 6N squad.

I wonder what the squads would have been like if there had been no "not considered due to injury" list.

I think several people have said in the past that the 6N isn't the time to experiment and that will happen on the Summer Tour and the next round of Autumn Internationals. I await developments with bated breath.

In the meantime Ireland Abu - BELIEVE

If Geoff, Rava and Gibson (wouldn't be a bad coaching team ) are happy then I'm happy

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Gert Smal has signed a new contract.

Is there a Wolfhounds game to be played before the 6 Nations geoff? That would be pretty useful indeed.

Morgannwg wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16615488.stm
Ireland squad: Rory Best (Ulster), Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Tom Court (Ulster), Sean Cronin (Leinster), Leo Cullen (Leinster), Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster), Stephen Ferris (Ulster), Cian Healy (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster), Shane Jennings (Leinster), Rob Kearney (Leinster), Fergus McFadden (Leinster), Conor Murray (Munster), Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), Paul O'Connell (Munster), Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Jonathan Sexton (Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ulster), Paddy Wallace (Ulster)

Do you guys seriously only have two props? What if one gets injured during a game, or is that part of a 'tactic?' Suprised at some inclusions to be honest, Cullen and DOC.

Have we a history of using the tactic? If one gets injured, that's what the other on is for

The Wolfhounds are playing a very strong Saxons. Acid test. Both sets of players will knock 7 bells of shoite out of each other, in the clamber for full-squad places.

Good stuff. I hope they televise it. Its at Sandy Park on Sat 28th Jan. Just before the 6-N.

Morgannwg wrote:Is there a Wolfhounds game to be played before the 6 Nations geoff? That would be pretty useful indeed.

I believe the wolfhounds game is on the Saturday before the 6Nations start. In Exeter.

I really do hope Spence plays really well in this wolfhounds game, and is moved up to the senior squad. He would have to put in some game though. But I think the senior squad could maybe do with one proper 13, rather than a utility back who plays there.

Well, it is actually a smart decision by Kidney then. The Saxons should dish out a really good team this year and be the best opposition you'll face. In spite of that, I see the Wolfhounds perhaps having the better pack. Chris Henry could easily make the senior team.

Rava wrote:
I think several people have said in the past that the 6N isn't the time to experiment and that will happen on the Summer Tour and the next round of Autumn Internationals. I await developments with bated breath.

I think you are right, I think several people Have said that in the past - some of the same people who also suggest even the AIs aren't the right time to experiment (always need to win against the SH guys...or at least send out a side that pretends it wants to) - and of course, never but never experiment in the lead in to a WC - and not on your life should you even dream of experimenting during the WC itself. BTW, it's also too early to experiment in the first season after a WC (when you need to get back to a known rhythm) and the two seasons after...well, it's pointless experimenting then, it only disrupts the lead in to the following WC.

gert smal extension good news? hm talk to me after 6 nations.

Our team is slowly changing people just dont see it.

Only POC is left from the front 5 a few years back.
SOB has come into to the back row
The half backs were Stringer and ROG no so long ago.
Horgan, Hickey and Dempsey were in the mix a few years ago.

Just because we dont change half the team over a couple of matches doesn't mean the team is not evolving. The older players are being replaced in a measured way.

Next up is to find a new centre partnership.

Yeah. Right. We can experiment... erm.. in the ... yeah.

The word experiment is not in Kidney's vocabulary.

He likes it all to evolve - as if by osmosis.

I think his selection process is smart - if a wee bit conservative. But he cant be putting raw kids in at the deep-end. They need a few years of high-level HC games to get them ready for this level. Then a few runs in the A's'.

He uses that(the HC) so well as a prereq. And the big provincial PRO12 games. In fairness.

geoff998rugby wrote:Our team is slowly changing people just dont see it.
Just because we dont change half the team over a couple of matches doesn't mean the team is not evolving. The older players are being replaced in a measured way.

I agree Geoff, it is changing - slowly. And emotionally speaking, a lot of - well, emotion - has been invested in the usual suspects and we all know we owe a debt of gratitude to them and I'm not wishing quick conclusions to any International careers when players are still playing at a standard that meets the requirements.

But having said that - I'd like a more flexible relationship between bench support and usual suspect. I'd prefer a more fluid rotation policy so that more players would have realistic time in the senior shirt and so get up to speed and improve through performance rather than 'training' with the big boys. In short I'd prefer an idea of a first 23, 24 or 25 rather than a first 15.

It's just a different view on how an International side could sustain quality and still keep opposition guessing about personel. We have enough quality players to provide more dept in real terms - and by real terms I mean more players given real time.
The slowness of Ireland's transition is what gives us the tag 'old men' even when it isn't appropriate. The slowness too gives us stability that perhaps other sides don't have. They can be at a level beneath us at times or above us, but we tend to keep at a certain level. But the level is just a few clicks below where I'd like it to be. Experiment is the wrong word - what I want is simply more real time for a bigger clutch of players.

yes the team is evolving in terms of personnel. however they now need to start playing some good rugby. thats been my biggest gripe over the last 18 months.

We have played poorly in so many games many of which we scraped a result.

We need to start fulfilling our potential and not limping to victories over limited sides.

hopefully it starts in 6 nations

I agree Fly. It frustrates me. But, if he does what he promised he'd do, when he took the remit. I.E have 30 quality international players, ready to drop into the Irish system ready & running, albeit slowly - I'll cut him a break.

I already am.

What I want from this 6-N:

* A new and tested centre-partnership. BOD not available really helps this. And Darcy can easily be benched. Im looking at Mcfadden & Earls here.

* 2 locks to be fully-blooded. (Ryan and one of Tuohy & Toner)

* Cronin to get more game time. He's well ready for it now.

* Id love to see McAllister get some time in the front-row. Cant see that happening... but.

* Trimble in his rightful place - on the wing.

* A game plan. And a backup if its not working.

If we get that, I'll be a happier bunny.

A lot depends, for me, on who goes on tour.

Of the Ulster men and, ignoring the obvious tourist, I really feel Tuohy and Cave should definitely go. They are ready to see whether or not they have what it takes to step up.

Maybe's are the like of Henry as a 7 and Spence

To be honest Gibson id settle for the last one.

Whatever about this squad I think the omission of Marshall and Gilroy is ludicrous.

Agree on Marshall especially. He should have been recognised and rewarded for his form. Id definitely have started him for the Wolfhounds.

What are we going to learn about TOL? That he's still not good enough?

Gibson wrote:Agree on Marshall especially. He should have been recognised and rewarded for his form. Id definitely have started him for the Wolfhounds.

What are we going to learn about TOL? That he's still not good enough?

As we are about to find out about Redden or rather get reaffirmed about Redden.

DOD,
The way I see it, Reddan and ROG are backup to Murray & Sexton.
Would have liked to see another SH tested. At least at A level.

I see Boss & TOL as pure cover. He could have well-afforded Marshall a chance.

Why do i get the feeling hell start ahead of boss for the wolfhounds as well?
This is the Wolfhound team id pick

Wilkinson
Sherry
Archer
Toner
Tuohy
Muldoon
Henry
POM (C)

Boss
Madigan
Fitzgerald
O' Malley
Spence
Kearney
Duffy

Subs
Varley, McCallister, McCarthy, Ruddock, O'Leary, Keatley, Zebo

I agree Marshall should get a chance cant understand why he isnt in the wolfhounds at least....

very disappointed that POM isnt going to make the wolfhounds at least (cant say having Jennings there is going to teach us anything either).

If Ross gets injured in the Wales game what happens for the rest of the tournament?

Are Archer, or Loughney really going to start?
Does Buckley get jettisoned in? (hows he going at Sale btw?)
Or do we make do at court at tighthead?
Maybe the Bull will get called out of retirement.....again.

Yeah POM won't even be available to be picked for the wolfhounds will he?

Golden wrote:If Ross gets injured in the Wales game what happens for the rest of the tournament?

Are Archer, or O'Loughney really going to start?
Does Buckley get jettisoned in? (hows he going at Sale btw?)
Or do we make do at court at tighthead?
Maybe the Bull will get called out of retirement.....again.

Basically Golden, we are phhoked.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yeah POM won't even be available to be picked for the wolfhounds will he?

Oh ye fair point. Then muldoon to 8 and mcloughlin at 6, Loughney for McCallister and Hurley in for Zebo

I'd be interested at see Loughney for the Wolfhounds actually. I remember Liam Toland saying that he was one to watch a few months back. Anyone got any info on how he has been doing this year?

The exciting bit...yeah, there is.... is that we know we have to approach the Welsh differently than we did last time. They did the homework, cut the legs from under our most aggressive ball carriers and didn't let up in pace for the duration. Word has it that Poland is on the cards again - I don't know what they do there or how long what they do takes to provide results - but whatever it is/was, the Welsh like it and admit it helped them in the WC.

So, let's assume they'll be back up to highest levels of stamina and fitness - Ireland just can't be planning more-of-the-same. They can't ............. can they???

geoff998rugby wrote:This made me laugh.

Someone on the Ulster board saying that Gilroy was not selected because "I don't think Deccie likes Ulster wingers..."

and the starting wingers for the 6N are likely to be.. Bowe..and..Trimble

You couldn't make it up...............paranoia is alive and well.

I seem to remember this being said before and during the RWC and looked what happened!

Interesting that the 2nd choice Leinster and Munster half-backs are higher up the pecking order than Ulsters 1st choice 10 and Marshall who's been one of Ulsters best players.....

having no backs coach has certainly got to hurt us?

Nah we can just play it tight and use the pick and go around the fringes....mix it up a bit with a few kicks to the corners or let POC take the ball in the 10 channel. No need for backs really .

Brian McGlaughlin on BBC NI there not happy at the lack of Ulster representation. Five out of 30 doesn't seem a great return for a side which has been playing so well over the past few months.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16621252.stm

Mclaughlin weighs in. Disappointed the form of Tuohy, Henry, Marshall and Gilroy isn't recognised.

Hugely disappointed with Kidney - people always denied he was biased - I think this is the clincher - it really is.