Pick Your Ireland Squad for the Six Nations

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Pick your squad for Ireland in the Six Nations, and you could win the chance to be in a long, boring, meaningless argument with Sin E and/or rodders. Call now!

Here's my effort;

PROPS
Cian Healy, Mike Ross, Tom Court, Tony Buckley, Paddy McAllister
HOOKERS
Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Damien Varley
LOCKS
Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
BACKROW
Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry
SCRUM HALF
Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray, Isaac Boss
OUTHALF
Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton
CENTRES
Gordon D'Arcy, Paddy Wallace, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave, Keith Earls
BACK THREE
Luke Fitzgerald, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Rob Kearney, Gavin Duffy

Captain; Paul O'Connell
Vice-Captains; Rory Best, Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton, Jamie Heaslip

Additional Players to feature for Ireland A but not the squad for the tournament proper;

Stephen Archer, Mike Sherry, Shane Jennings, Mike McCarthy, Paul Marshall, Ian Madigan, Nevin Spence, Simon Zebo, Craig Gilroy

Standulstermen wrote:

Sin é wrote:From what I know of Kidney, he would always put the team first, not the individual. If he thinks that there will be a better team performance with Keatley/O'Leary (or Madigan/Boss), he will go for the best pairing to provide he best team (while being decent to those who don't get picked).

I doubt if he is unusual in this way. You often see it at underage level where the coaches keep the provincial partnerships together.

Fair point sin but then how do you explain e lack of game time reddan/sexton saw as a pairing internationally. Murray/sexton and reddan/ROG were used but not the ore combinations until ROG eventually usurped sexton again.

Sexton/O'Leary were both Heineken Cup winning OH/SH so reasonably experienced by the time they got to that stage. In the lead up to the world cup, I think Kidney was trying to give the two non-provincial partners as much time together as possible. I don't think Conor Murray has started a game with Sexton. He was always paired with ROG.

Sexton's debut game with the Wolfhounds was with Eoin Reddan (Ian Humphs & Boss were on the bench) by the way.

roddersm wrote:I think Kidney is a man of integrity too but given the players he's picked its quite easy to come to the conclusion that a bit part player at Munster or Leinster has a better chance of Ireland selection than a central and integral player at Ulster, regardless of how the provinces are playing.

How Gilroy, who has been ever present for Ulster and scoring crucial tries and Paul Marshall, who has been on fire can be behind the likes of Conway and O'Leary, Ian Humphreys can't make the Wolfhounds despite playing Keatley, who has hardly played this season, of the park recently and Chris Henry who has been arguably the form Irish backrower this year can only make the wolfhounds is outrageous.

Toner and Tuohy are clearly going head to head for Cullens spot in the squad which is ludicrous because both Cullen and O'Callaghan have been rubbish since the RWC and Toner and Touhy have been in the form of their careers.

First I'll say, Gilroy's time will come. Marshall's might come if he strikes up a good partnership with Paddy Jackson/McKinney.

What would Gilroy add to the team that Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Luke Fitz, Kearney won't. Can Gilroy play fullback? Because it would be good for the team if he could cover for Kearney from the bench. We're short on fullbacks at the moment.

Since he isn't going to get past that lot just yet, he would be better off back at Ulster helping it to make the Magners playoffs.

Sin é wrote:
First I'll say, Gilroy's time will come. Marshall's might come if he strikes up a good partnership with Paddy Jackson/McKinney.

What would Gilroy add to the team that Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Luke Fitz, Kearney won't. Can Gilroy play fullback? Because it would be good for the team if he could cover for Kearney from the bench. We're short on fullbacks at the moment.

Gilroy can play fullback. He wouldn't offer anything beyond those guys but he should be in the wolfhounds or tackle bag duty imo. He, Zebo and Dave Kearney should be next in line imo.

Sin, I'd agree with you on that point, that he'd be better off with his club. By the same token i think Cullen would be better off with Leinster because at this stage of his career he's not going to add much to the international cause, he needs surgery and had he not been selected would have enough time to recover before the HC QFs. As it stands he's going to be in the squad, maybe play 15/20 across the 5 games, and deny Touhy or Toner a place in the main squad, or even a place on the bench.

it certainly is odd that ulster regulars are behind leinster and munster bit part players in the pecking order. Particularly the calls for the wolfhounds which are odd.

Once you strip away the lads joining the first team squad to hold tackle bags (o mahony should be at least in Wolfhounds) it is a very predictable/dull squad that ignores form particularly in 2nd row. Certainly will be no fresh faces featuring in the 6 nations. It is essentially the world cup team minus a backs coach and drico. Get a few injuries and the likes of Fitzgerald,McLoughlin,O Leary, etc will step into first team squad

you would hope that fitzgerald will feature at some stage. It would have been great to see Toner/Tuohy/Cave/O Mahony/Henry get some game team even if just for Italy at home but it just wont happen unless we get hit hard with injuries.

I can see us playing exactly the same way v Wales with Sexton at fly half being the only change and maybe Ryan in the 2nd row. we may just want it a bit more and scrape home.

we shall see

The point about being with the club is irrelevant. There is only 1 Wolfhounds game. After that game the additions, and most of the Wolfhounds players will be sent back to their provinces. They will miss no Pro12 games.

I have defended Kidney here but in leaving out Gilroy and picking Hurley, Conway, O'Hallaran and Zebo he got it wrong

roddersm wrote: Ian Humphreys can't make the Wolfhounds despite playing Keatley, who has hardly played this season, of the park recently

Humphreys will never ever be good enough for International rugby. The thinking is Keatley might be, although I doubt it, unless he improves Madigan will very soon pass him

Henry, Tuohy and Toner have not been droped, discarded, ignored. They are in the Wolfhounds team as
Kidney wants to take a further look.

There was no point playing Cullen, Jennings and DOC in the Wolfhounds team.

To suggest that these older players have been preferred to the younger players is to fundamentally mis understand the 'how and why' players have been selected for the respective squads.

If that is true then Geoff then why has he selected TOL and Boss ahead of Marshall? Does he need another look at them too?

Does he need another look at Gavin Duffy rather than Gilroy or D'arcy?

Ihumph may not be international material but his performances warrant recognition ahead of a player, Keatley, who has barely featured this season.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:I didnt say he was biased against a particular province I suggested that he was biased IN FAVOUR of a particular province (Munster) and more specifically some Munster players who could only be described as failed players such as O'Leary and Hurley.

Have to agree with this. I would say Notch, anyone who didn't think Kidney had preference towards Munster is an idiot. Surely you would agree he has preference towards Munster? It is plainly obvious.

+1 How people could say he isnt bias towards the team he's won 2 Heineken Cups with, the province he was the head coach of and the province he clearly has a lot of close personal relationships with is beyond me. In stark contrast to players at other provinces with players who he has never worked with at any level. But no doubt being the Munster head coach, knowing all their players closely and winning 2 Heineken Cups with them couldnt possibly lead to a bit of favouritism - no sirree.

He also has long standing pets like O'Leary and most bizarrely Gavin Duffy - this stuff about questioning his integrity is quite funny really, I cant think of a coach who hasnt been accused of favouritism towards certain players or teams. Some posters on this board clearly find people disagreeing with them or Kidney being criticized incredibly difficult to deal with.

roddersm wrote:If that is true then Geoff then why has he selected TOL and Boss ahead of Marshall? Does he need another look at them too?

Does he need another look at Gavin Duffy rather than Gilroy or D'arcy?

Ihumph may not be international material but his performances warrant recognition ahead of a player, Keatley, who has barely featured this season.

As I said I think TOL ahead of Marshall is a mistake.

Boss and Duffy, as I have already said, are there to give the Wolfhounds a couple of old hands alongside the youngster. Boss will be the 3rd SH when the full squad is decided.

I see no point picking a player who will never be an International, Humphreys, in front of one who might ne, Keatley. The fact Keatley isn't that great doesn't alter that fact. We have the same problem at prop - none of the Wolfhound selections are that good. Ireland need Hagan, McAllister, Macklin to improve desperately.

As for D'Arcy - well Ulster themselves shipped in a NIE player as soon as Payne got injured, (although it took some time) and even played a donkey like Danielli at 15 in preference. If the Ulster coaching staff don't have faith in D'Arcy why should Kidney ?

Geoff your contradicting yourself here. Your saying there is no point in picking Humphreys as he will never be an international but Keatley might be, but then you've said Gavin Duffy (who will never be an international) has been picked ahead of someone who might (Gilroy/D'Arcy) - doesnt make sense.

Artful - Tomas O'Leary was trialled same like other scrumhalves. He wasn't brought to the RWC. Kidney dropped him when it counted most.

Gavin Duffy has played more rugby under Eddie O'Sullivan than Declan Kidney. He was even picked in Eddies RWC squad.

Fact remains stag - Duffy is now 31 and never going to get a look in with the Irish squad, picking a 31 year old fullback for the Wolfhounds is fruitless, the idea that Gavin Duffy is going to give experience to players around him I just dont accept. He is clearly one of Kidney's pets.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Geoff your contradicting yourself here. Your saying there is no point in picking Humphreys as he will never be an international but Keatley might be, but then you've said Gavin Duffy (who will never be an international) has been picked ahead of someone who might (Gilroy/D'Arcy) - doesnt make sense.

Sorry Geoff but I have to agree, you are being very selective and inconsistant with your arguments.

In the Wolfhounds team you want a few old hands, as few as possible, to help the younger players.

Duffy has fulfilled that role for a number of years for Ireland.
Humphreys doesn't have the mental strength to assist other players - just the opposite he needs his hand held by others.
Humphreys is incapable of fulfilling that role,Duffy can - I see no inconsistancy in my arguement.

I agree with Geoff regarding Duffy.

BTW I am firmly against T.O'Learys inclusion over Marshall.

Fair point on Duffy then Geoff but I still feel IHumph should be selected ahead of Keatley.

Paul Marshall ahead of TOL is a no brainer and Henry, Toner and Touhy should be with seniors.

Gilroy and D'arcy should be ahead of the likes of Conway in the pecking order.

Agre re Gilroy disagree re D'Arcy for the simple reason the Ulster coaching staff have not shown confidence in him so why should Kidney.

The final senior squad has yet to be decided, if Henry, Toner and Tuohy deliver in the Wolfhounds game they will be included, as it should be.

yeah lets mollycoddle our younger players with average older players who have never been international class : (

For the Wolfhounds i would rather we just picked our best younger players and let them on with it. mc laughlin,fitzgerald,henry,varley and Boss are hardly babies. as far as im concerned duffy is just taking up a space that would be better filled by the likes of Gilroy,Conroy etc. What top class experience will Duffy bring to the table?

Again no sense of forward planning. Im all for the one game at a time attitude coming from management in terms of what they say to the media but behind the scenes there must be some sense of a 4 year plan

geoff998rugby wrote:The final senior squad has yet to be decided, if Henry, Toner and Tuohy deliver in the Wolfhounds game they will be included, as it should be.

Those 3 have been delivering all season. Maybe its time O'Callaghan delivered something?

Two from Touhy/ Toner and Henry/McGlaughlin will get promoted I think.

red_stag wrote:I think we need a complete new look centre pairing. Its a disgrace that James Downey has been over looked. Him and Earls would be a nod to the future. Missed opportunity.

Downey would just add to the problem. We don't need one dimensional centres with shaky 13s outside them. Do you honestly think Downey and Earls would have made a good partnership stag? That would be the biggest step backwards possible.

If we do not have a major injury crisis and do not lose our first two games the squad of 24 will remain for the bulk of the 6 nations with the usual alterations.

jennings,rog and p wallace may start a game at a push

And we have enough talented centres to choose from anyway for a new centre pairing..

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

red_stag wrote:I think we need a complete new look centre pairing. Its a disgrace that James Downey has been over looked. Him and Earls would be a nod to the future. Missed opportunity.

Downey would just add to the problem. We don't need one dimensional centres with shaky 13s outside them. Do you honestly think Downey and Earls would have made a good partnership stag? That would be the biggest step backwards possible.

Im only taking the urine due to Downey posisbly moving to Munster.

See, WUM!

Also, just reading some of the more recent comments, some people seem to have changed their song now that McLaughlin has said he is disappointed with the squad, from an Ulster POV. And he rightly should be, but yesterday it was a "knee-jerk reaction" when I and some others expressed our disappointment with the team..

red_stag wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

red_stag wrote:I think we need a complete new look centre pairing. Its a disgrace that James Downey has been over looked. Him and Earls would be a nod to the future. Missed opportunity.

Downey would just add to the problem. We don't need one dimensional centres with shaky 13s outside them. Do you honestly think Downey and Earls would have made a good partnership stag? That would be the biggest step backwards possible.

Im only taking the urine due to Downey posisbly moving to Munster.

I guess getting little sleep makes it hard not to notice these things apologies stag.

However jokes aside:

- I think that O'Leary shouldn't be in the squad
- One of Tuohy or Toner should be in main squad over Cullen

That aside I have no major qualms. Things I'd have done differently but I can get over.

In reality it means nothing as they can pick any players. Geordan Murphy could conceivably play 15 against Wales despite not being listed.

Read in the indo that Cullens surgery has not been confirmed. He'll train with the Ireland squad and if fit will be the 4th lock ahead of Tuohy and Toner.

How can Kidney have failed to notice the form of Toner and Tuohy, not to mention Henry, O'Mahoney, Fitzgerald and Paul Marshall?? The 4 centres suggests Cave would have been with the wolfhounds if fit.

Its like he hasn't watched a game of rugby since the RWC!

The issue I have here is that we are predicting henry, Tuohy, toner etc could be promoted based on a good outing for the wolfhounds. If they don't perform are they out of the equation? If so then what is the point of performing week in week out. I will be very surprised if anyone outside the main squad (already named) will feature in a match day 22. Hopefully I am proved wrong but I just can't see it.

They could play blinders and Kidney would probably move up the wrong players. Another thing that really bugs me in the wolfhounds though is that he has chosen Spence and EOM as the only centres. Now, if he has actually watched them play, he will realise they are 13s. Spence is not a 12, and it is clearly evident. Picking two 13s is just silly and it might ruin both their games.

The only players who will get promoted are TOL and Fitzgerald. Theres a spot for Geordan Murphy there too.

If Cullen can prove he can walk unaided it doesn't matter what Tuohy and Toner do. Not sure what else Henry has to do.

Sorry lads come back when you are 33....

Rodders, your argument that Keatley has played no games is rubbish. He has played 2 less than iHumph. Humphreys has played and started for the As a number of times. Keatley's appearances have been off the bench. Why not give the guy a chance?


Humph has been better than him but he will never be a full international so why play him? Keatley could be.

Thomond wrote:Rodders, your argument that Keatley has played no games is rubbish. He has played 2 less than iHumph. Humphreys has played and started for the As a number of times. Keatley's appearances have been off the bench. Why not give the guy a chance?


Humph has been better than him but he will never be a full international so why play him? Keatley could be.

IHumph has missed games though injury and has been selected for the HEC games. Keatley played a few Rabo games until O'Gara returned and has hardly featured since. They went head to head at Ravenhill a few weeks ago and IHumph had the better game.

I would pick Keatley ahead of IHumph if both were playing regularly but they aren't.

ROG should be dropped for Keatley - might score more tries than drop-goals

No question IHumph has been better I didn't dispute that. I just think it makes more sense to put Keatley in there. Rory, you haven't been watchign Keatley lately I take it.

Agree with the above about it not making a difference how well these guys perform with the Wolfhounds - I just can't see any of them being promoted regardless of how well the play - not that it should matter after the seasons they've had.

People actually get more excited about drop goals than tries.

Remember Wilkos drop goal against Australia in 2003.
ROGs drop goal against Wales in 2009.
ROGs drop goal against Northampton in 2011.

Thomond wrote:No question IHumph has been better I didn't dispute that. I just think it makes more sense to put Keatley in there. Rory, you haven't been watchign Keatley lately I take it.

I have, he has been disappointing. Was just a little joke testing how long it will take before Sin appears!

red_stag wrote:People actually get more excited about drop goals than tries.

Remember Wilkos drop goal against Australia in 2003.
ROGs drop goal against Wales in 2009.
ROGs drop goal against Northampton in 2011.

I think it is 1-1 now stag reeled you in this time.

Sextons drop goal against Australia 2011....oh wait he got dropped after that one....

God this starting to urine me off.

Rory which 12 do you have in mind.

Maybe just Cullen and Jennings are there because they are the players that best mimic the opposition on the training pitch.. Jennings as a dummy Warburton for instance. Cullen to provide a genuine defensive threat as a line out jumper.

Players may well play well week in week out but we need to see them alongside unfamiliar players and see them adapt. The alternative logic is the Wolfhounds game is a waste of time which I think is nonsense.

Only 2 will be promoted !!! - garbage

Rant over

Well seeing as Spence has been drafted in just after his injury - Luke Marshall. Future Irish partnership right there!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

red_stag wrote:People actually get more excited about drop goals than tries.

Remember Wilkos drop goal against Australia in 2003.
ROGs drop goal against Wales in 2009.
ROGs drop goal against Northampton in 2011.

I think it is 1-1 now stag reeled you in this time.

Reeled me in? I was planning to build it up to reel you in.

You are not seriously suggesting Marshall who hasn't played for months should be drafted in.

Spence has started12 games this year - last one 17th Dec. Most at 12 incidently.

Marshall has started 2 games this year - last one 30th Sept.
To suggest that they are in any way comparable or that Marshall should be playing for the Wolfhounds is quite frankly laughable.

Well I did get a nice response filled with statistics after mentioning ROG and drop goals.. quite Sin-esque

lads-

who do you think is better rog or sexton?

discuss etc. haha

i really do not know how we will do in the 6 nations. A part of me thinks we have enough good players to finish 2nd especially if we beat the Welsh and get some momentum

Another part of me thinks we will never play well consistently under kidney but we will have a smattering of great victories under him.

Thats true. However the idea of people actually preferring drop kicks over tries is wildly inaccurate.

I should probably come clean. I have a second account (Sin E). Did you really think someobody like "him" could actually exist

geoff998rugby wrote:You are not seriously suggesting Marshall who hasn't played for months should be drafted in.

Spence has started12 games this year - last one 17th Dec. Most at 12 incidently.

Marshall has started 2 games this year - last one 30th Sept.
To suggest that they are in any way comparable or that Marshall should be playing for the Wolfhounds is quite frankly laughable.

Although I wasn't being totally serious with my suggestion of Marshall, I guess it makes about as much sense as bringing in an injured player into a position they are not actually suited to, rather than the one who plays there. Personally I think it is stupid playing Spence and EOM together. Neither play 12, so why are they the only two centres? For a more serious suggestion, why not Whitten?

red_stag wrote:Thats true. However the idea of people actually preferring drop kicks over tries is wildly inaccurate.

I should probably come clean. I have a second account (Sin E). Did you really think someobody like "him" could actually exist

Not sure if I am being played again or that is true It could well be, you are right, there is no one quite like Sin but his posts entertain me greatly