The Wales vs England bickering thread, 2012 - PONIES ALLOWED!

[TycroesOsprey]

First topic message reminder :

OK, every year we see threads that actually contain really good rugby discussion derailed by the ongoing Wales vs England bickering and WUMMING! I will name no names. I guess we have all been guilty .

Since most of the general bickering comes from the respective fans of Wales and England ; I thought I would create a thread for it in an effort to keep decent rugby discussion relatively WUM free in other threads.

So I will begin, An article in the Western Mail today pointed out how England are copying Gatlands youthful approach with a squad that has an average age of 25 and 428 caps between them.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/01/12/analysis-new-look-england-follow-youthful-wales-lead-91466-30105333/

Wales probable squad (once you have taken out Shane and Wellies from the World cup squad with their probable replacements) lines up at the same average age and about 820 caps between them. England are copying Wales' approcach but are way behind. Clearly all things point to a wales victory in HQ this year.

Discuss

post script

Please may I emphasise that this is a bickering and banter thread, whilst mild wumming and banter are allowed please try not to stray over the line of decency.

[HERSH]

Who gets the braging rights if we draw?

[miteyironpaw]

It depends who won morally HERSH.

[HERSH]

Thought so, So the Welsh posters would still be out in force next week.

[TycroesOsprey]

I watched the 2003 final at the sportsman pub in Ravensdale in Ireland.
I was one of two England fans in there. Most of the Irish were actually quite keen on an England win, citing the NH factor. Unlike my dad, who knowing I was going to be there, had gone to the trouble of driving to Newry to buy a (seemingly child sized) Aus cricket shirt from a charity shop. I'm not sure what I was more disgusted by, the Aus crest on the shirt,or my old mans belly spilling liberally from the tight canary yellow shirt.

Still, good lash that day.

In 2007, I went to the final, and due to my continuing amazement that we had actually reached that far, I wasnt too annoyed that we lost. Good lash with the saffa's and few Kiwi's who hadnt sold their final tickets, in Paris that night

I watched the 2003 final in a pub in Brighton. was staying at a mates for a party and his missis broke the telly so I had to get up and go and sit and watch it in a pub. I started off supporting the English as it was a NH vs SH thing. After a first half of being abused by chubbys in chelsea shirts for being welsh, I changed my opinion. Growing up in Wales whilst I was aware of the rivalry in rugby I had no issues with England and never really had the anyone bar england vibe. After 12 years living in Richmond and regularly getting hassle for being welsh often with no relevance to rugby I started to go down the ABE route. I have travelled all over the world lived in Australia for a couple of years and the only country where I have taken abuse for my nationality is England. Its as if its the last little bigotry that some English feel is allowed.

[damngoodOvalball]

England need to win by 30 points to avoid, the seemingly inevitable, Welsh almost victory.

An impossible task for our young and inexperienced charge down chaps

[damngoodOvalball]

I watched the 2003 final at the sportsman pub in Ravensdale in Ireland.
I was one of two England fans in there. Most of the Irish were actually quite keen on an England win, citing the NH factor. Unlike my dad, who knowing I was going to be there, had gone to the trouble of driving to Newry to buy a (seemingly child sized) Aus cricket shirt from a charity shop. I'm not sure what I was more disgusted by, the Aus crest on the shirt,or my old mans belly spilling liberally from the tight canary yellow shirt.

Still, good lash that day.

In 2007, I went to the final, and due to my continuing amazement that we had actually reached that far, I wasnt too annoyed that we lost. Good lash with the saffa's and few Kiwi's who hadnt sold their final tickets, in Paris that night

I watched the 2003 final in a pub in Brighton. was staying at a mates for a party and his missis broke the telly so I had to get up and go and sit and watch it in a pub. I started off supporting the English as it was a NH vs SH thing. After a first half of being abused by chubbys in chelsea shirts for being welsh, I changed my opinion. Growing up in Wales whilst I was aware of the rivalry in rugby I had no issues with England and never really had the anyone bar england vibe. After 12 years living in Richmond and regularly getting hassle for being welsh often with no relevance to rugby I started to go down the ABE route. I have travelled all over the world lived in Australia for a couple of years and the only country where I have taken abuse for my nationality is England. Its as if its the last little bigotry that some English feel is allowed.

Sorry to hear that Tycroes. Its no excuse but it definately goes both ways. Perhaps you should stop attaching my little pony stickers to fat chelsea fans faces?

[TycroesOsprey]

I watched the 2003 final at the sportsman pub in Ravensdale in Ireland.
I was one of two England fans in there. Most of the Irish were actually quite keen on an England win, citing the NH factor. Unlike my dad, who knowing I was going to be there, had gone to the trouble of driving to Newry to buy a (seemingly child sized) Aus cricket shirt from a charity shop. I'm not sure what I was more disgusted by, the Aus crest on the shirt,or my old mans belly spilling liberally from the tight canary yellow shirt.

Still, good lash that day.

In 2007, I went to the final, and due to my continuing amazement that we had actually reached that far, I wasnt too annoyed that we lost. Good lash with the saffa's and few Kiwi's who hadnt sold their final tickets, in Paris that night

I watched the 2003 final in a pub in Brighton. was staying at a mates for a party and his missis broke the telly so I had to get up and go and sit and watch it in a pub. I started off supporting the English as it was a NH vs SH thing. After a first half of being abused by chubbys in chelsea shirts for being welsh, I changed my opinion. Growing up in Wales whilst I was aware of the rivalry in rugby I had no issues with England and never really had the anyone bar england vibe. After 12 years living in Richmond and regularly getting hassle for being welsh often with no relevance to rugby I started to go down the ABE route. I have travelled all over the world lived in Australia for a couple of years and the only country where I have taken abuse for my nationality is England. Its as if its the last little bigotry that some English feel is allowed.

Sorry to hear that Tycroes. Its no excuse but it definately goes both ways. Perhaps you should stop attaching my little pony stickers to fat chelsea fans faces?

Not sure it does go both ways dg, Have you ever had your boss tell you that your nation is an irrelevance for wearing a redrose on st georges day? or a line manager tell you that English isnt a nationality so you cant put it on a form? (I complained about that one she was slapped down by HR). Have you ever walked into a pub and been abused over being English by strangers? Has your missis come home in tears because her workmates thought it was amusing to burn a English flag on her car before the devolution vote? Have you ever been ordered out of a pub in Richmond for speaking English to your partner? Thats justa snippet of the worst experiences.

[Equo Troiano]

Oh you poor thing. I suggest you go and spend your dole check at the pub. That's if there's one still open where you live.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Terrible stuff that, Tycroes.

[HERSH]

Of course Welsh isn't a nationality on a form you're British the same as me!

The flag burning seems harsh, I’ll give you that one.

[eirebilly]

Is someone going to create this article again? Its about at its threshold.

[TycroesOsprey]

Of course Welsh isn't a nationality on a form you're British the same as me!

The flag burning seems harsh, I’ll give you that one.

not on a form which says - British other, please indicate which.

So getting kicked out of the pub for speaking welsh is ok by you then Hersh?

[english warrior]

The flag burning does seem Harsh Hersh!

[HERSH]

Of course Welsh isn't a nationality on a form you're British the same as me!

The flag burning seems harsh, I’ll give you that one.

not on a form which says - British other, please indicate which.

So getting kicked out of the pub for speaking welsh is ok by you then Hersh?

So your British Welsh?
get a grip man you're British.

As for the pub, I've been thrown out of Welsh pubs for Speaking English!
Whats the problem?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Is someone going to create this article again? Its about at its threshold.

Tycroes: he's talking to you!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

As for the pub, I've been thrown out of Welsh pubs for Speaking English!

I say you're lying.

[TycroesOsprey]

Is someone going to create this article again? Its about at its threshold.

Tycroes: he's talking to you!

Aye but I dont see why we only have three days to go and the match is here so Im gonna leave it run. I think Rainbow dash would be upset of I simply recreated it.

[HERSH]

I told the landlord to f*** off when he wouldn't serve me.

Once again I don't see the problem, I've been thrown out of English pubs for speaking English.

[TycroesOsprey]

Of course Im british welsh hersh thats what the union is all about.

[TycroesOsprey]

I told the landlord to f*** off when he wouldn't serve me.

Once again I don't see the problem, I've been thrown out of English pubs for speaking English.

where was this alledged pub? I mean I can give you the name of the pub in Richmond if you want.

[HERSH]

No you're British!!!!!

I'm not British - English when I fill a form out, I'm British

Maybe at a push British - White

[english warrior]

Tycroesosprey- 'The only country where i have taken abuse for my nationality is England'

Well, i think i can put this one to rest, because most of the world don't know that Wales exists, and if they do know they possibly think of it as part of England ( quiet those who say it is ) and also the abuse you speak of that only occurs in England may be down to the fact that as English people we know the Welsh , or there might be another issue, mainly that you are just not that likeable!!

[HERSH]

You want a list of pubs that I've been thrown out of in Wales for speaking English?

Lets just say I've played a lot of rugby all over Wales and drunk a lot of pints after the games.

What goes on Tour and all that!

[TycroesOsprey]

Australians know the welsh exist after Sydney is in New South Wales and the amount of welsh names is astounding.

America knows the welsh exist espescially since quite a few of their early presidents were of welsh descent.

India where I spent six months has major links with the welsh from the days of methodist missionaries. I went to a chapel in Mumbai called caersalem which has bigger congregations than at home

Even in Malaysia when I was asked by a rickshaw driver where I was from and repplied Wales I was treated to a rendition of delilah. Thats a very suurreal experience late at night in Kota Bharu

[TycroesOsprey]

You want a list of pubs that I've been thrown out of in Wales for speaking English?

Lets just say I've played a lot of rugby all over Wales and drunk a lot of pints after the games.

What goes on Tour and all that!

Aha so were you thrown out of the pub for speaking English or simply because you were behaving like a douche?

[gregortree]

T.O.
London is a World City, multicultural. Far too many nationalities and accents for anyone to notice you. Unless you are being noisy. But equally there has to be a London Welsh pub in Richmond (home of LW) you could use.

[damngoodOvalball]

TO, some horrible things have happened to you, but to suggest that it doesnt go both ways is about as one eyed as it gets. Ever heard of english peoples homes being burnt down because they happen to live in Wales? Ever heard of the young English girl who was burnt by a welshman's cigarette because she dared to wear an England shirt to an England game?

I have taken abuse for being English more times than I care to remember - I was working for an Aussie firm in 2005 and during the Ashes it was constant however never as bad as the abuse I have received in pubs in Wales. I am thick skinned and know that it is harmless. Trust me, it goes both ways.

This doesnt justify the abuse you have taken but to suggest that xenophobia is solely a trait of the English is utterly ridiculous

[Glas a du]

You've been thrown out for behaving like a Tinkywinky who just happened to be speaking English

[HERSH]

You want a list of pubs that I've been thrown out of in Wales for speaking English?

Lets just say I've played a lot of rugby all over Wales and drunk a lot of pints after the games.

What goes on Tour and all that!

Aha so were you thrown out of the pub for speaking English or simply because you were behaving like a douche?

Both, but that’s not what you originally asked!
I don't believe you were thrown out of a pub in Richmond (the home of London Welsh and Many Rugby fans) just for speaking Welsh unless you were causing trouble or walked into a hardened football pub, In Richmond????

[TycroesOsprey]

T.O.
London is a World City, multicultural. Far too many nationalities and accents for anyone to notice you. Unless you are being noisy. But equally there has to be a London Welsh pub in Richmond (home of LW) you could use.

Actually the pub was picketed only a couple of weeks later by the anti nazi league and pride groups because they held a BNP rally and kicked out anyone they thought was gay so I wasnt on my own in that place getting hassle.

[HERSH]

T.O.
London is a World City, multicultural. Far too many nationalities and accents for anyone to notice you. Unless you are being noisy. But equally there has to be a London Welsh pub in Richmond (home of LW) you could use.

Actually the pub was picketed only a couple of weeks later by the anti nazi league and pride groups because they held a BNP rally and kicked out anyone they thought was gay so I wasnt on my own in that place getting hassle.

So your sayng that all English people are the same?

thats why you dislike us?

[english warrior]

Tycroesosprey- 'Kicked out anyone they thought was gay so i wasn't on my own in that place getting hassle'


Eh, does that mean that you are Welsh and gay? All you need for the full set is to be Black and Muslim!!

[HERSH]

His already British - Welsh on forms, don't give him more options!

and that was a little below the belt EW!

Behave.

[TycroesOsprey]

T.O.
London is a World City, multicultural. Far too many nationalities and accents for anyone to notice you. Unless you are being noisy. But equally there has to be a London Welsh pub in Richmond (home of LW) you could use.

Actually the pub was picketed only a couple of weeks later by the anti nazi league and pride groups because they held a BNP rally and kicked out anyone they thought was gay so I wasnt on my own in that place getting hassle.

So your sayng that all English people are the same?

thats why you dislike us?

No Im certainly not saying that, it is a minority, I also have never said I dislike the English, happily most Englishman I meet are decent and know the difference between banter and outright bigotry. On this board Im pretty sure nobody is actually a bigot although some posts steer pretty close to it. My point remains that the only place I have got grief over my nationality is in England. Look at the Anne Robinson remarks a couple of years ago. She thought she was being funny but she knew full well she could not make similar comments about any other national group without serious trouble with her employer. In my book discrimination against any natinal group because of their nationality is disgusting.

[Guest]

Just a polite bit of advice to get this back to a bickering thread and nothing more please, some of you are straying rather close to crossing a line you shouldn't. Thanks

[TycroesOsprey]

Tycroesosprey- 'Kicked out anyone they thought was gay so i wasn't on my own in that place getting hassle'


Eh, does that mean that you are Welsh and gay? All you need for the full set is to be Black and Muslim!!

Ah that is actually exactly the kind of thing Im talking about.

[damngoodOvalball]

T.O.
London is a World City, multicultural. Far too many nationalities and accents for anyone to notice you. Unless you are being noisy. But equally there has to be a London Welsh pub in Richmond (home of LW) you could use.

Actually the pub was picketed only a couple of weeks later by the anti nazi league and pride groups because they held a BNP rally and kicked out anyone they thought was gay so I wasnt on my own in that place getting hassle.

So your sayng that all English people are the same?

thats why you dislike us?

No Im certainly not saying that, it is a minority, I also have never said I dislike the English, happily most Englishman I meet are decent and know the difference between banter and outright bigotry. On this board Im pretty sure nobody is actually a bigot although some posts steer pretty close to it. My point remains that the only place I have got grief over my nationality is in England. Look at the Anne Robinson remarks a couple of years ago. She thought she was being funny but she knew full well she could not make similar comments about any other national group without serious trouble with her employer. In my book discrimination against any natinal group because of their nationality is disgusting.

So you maintain that bigotry is not aimed at the english, and that it is a one way street with bigotry flowing only out of England? May I suggest that a picture of a pony doing a turd might sum this view up quite well

[TycroesOsprey]

You want a list of pubs that I've been thrown out of in Wales for speaking English?

Lets just say I've played a lot of rugby all over Wales and drunk a lot of pints after the games.

What goes on Tour and all that!

Aha so were you thrown out of the pub for speaking English or simply because you were behaving like a douche?

Both, but that’s not what you originally asked!
I don't believe you were thrown out of a pub in Richmond (the home of London Welsh and Many Rugby fans) just for speaking Welsh unless you were causing trouble or walked into a hardened football pub, In Richmond????

The pub is a well known rugby pub HERSH. I believe it has new owners now guven all the press and hassle for holding BNP rallies.

[Biltong]

This thread has lost all its appeal, perhaps they are right, when it hits a 1000 posts, sell.

[TycroesOsprey]

T.O.
London is a World City, multicultural. Far too many nationalities and accents for anyone to notice you. Unless you are being noisy. But equally there has to be a London Welsh pub in Richmond (home of LW) you could use.

Actually the pub was picketed only a couple of weeks later by the anti nazi league and pride groups because they held a BNP rally and kicked out anyone they thought was gay so I wasnt on my own in that place getting hassle.

So your sayng that all English people are the same?

thats why you dislike us?

No Im certainly not saying that, it is a minority, I also have never said I dislike the English, happily most Englishman I meet are decent and know the difference between banter and outright bigotry. On this board Im pretty sure nobody is actually a bigot although some posts steer pretty close to it. My point remains that the only place I have got grief over my nationality is in England. Look at the Anne Robinson remarks a couple of years ago. She thought she was being funny but she knew full well she could not make similar comments about any other national group without serious trouble with her employer. In my book discrimination against any natinal group because of their nationality is disgusting.

So you maintain that bigotry is not aimed at the english, and that it is a one way street with bigotry flowing only out of England? May I suggest that a picture of a pony doing a turd might sum this view up quite well

No dg not saying that, every country has bigots. However I am saying that a many people accross the border dont consider statements about the welsh as bigotted they feel its acceptable. Itts only my personal experience and certainly not an indictment of all Englishmen/women.

[trebellbobaggins]

Was there anyone in the car with you, or do you often talk to yourself while you're driving?

haha. My son and his Welsh friend.

[TycroesOsprey]

This thread has lost all its appeal, perhaps they are right, when it hits a 1000 posts, sell.

ponies agree

Spoiler:

[miteyironpaw]

You can find pretty much anything in London if you go looking for it to be fair.
Bigotry, prejudice and malice included obviously. On the other hand you can easily avoid it if you prefer and focus on the positives like all the friendly helpful well meaning tolerant open minded community spirited people that also live there.

[Glas a du]

Just a polite bit of advice to get this back to a bickering thread and nothing more please, some of you are straying rather close to crossing a line you shouldn't. Thanks

Will you Flip halfwits Please bicker properly for Flip sakes!

[TycroesOsprey]

You can find pretty much anything in London if you go looking for it to be fair.
Bigotry, prejudice and malice included obviously. On the other hand you can easily avoid it if you prefer and focus on the positives like all the friendly helpful well meaning tolerant open minded community spirited people that also live there.

probably the first time I have agreed with one of your posts mitey. DOnt get me wrong I have great friends in west london and had a generally great time living there.

[miteyironpaw]

Well, to be fair West London is the fancy bit.

[Guest]

Just a polite bit of advice to get this back to a bickering thread and nothing more please, some of you are straying rather close to crossing a line you shouldn't. Thanks

Will you Flip halfwits Please bicker properly for Flip sakes!

Well, there is an art to good bickering you know....

[miteyironpaw]

That aside, Comparing the likely English team to the likely Welsh team and then using my new system of past contribution to scoring opportunities (extrapolated from club play in the case of those were relatively few caps), I've come to the conclusion that England on average contribute just under 2 points more per man to point scoring historically than their Welsh counterparts.

Therefore I predict an English victory on the weekend by roughly 30 points. Which fits with my earlier predictions of scoreline something like 35-7, or 37-5, or there abouts.

[Equo Troiano]

Just a polite bit of advice to get this back to a bickering thread and nothing more please, some of you are straying rather close to crossing a line you shouldn't. Thanks

Yeah, Welsh AND gay. Double whammy!

[miteyironpaw]

Moving along...

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