Foden - Outside Centre

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With Manu Tuilagi definitely out of the first international against Scotland, and potentially out for a further couple of games. England have the option of either playing the uncapped Gloucester centre Henry Trinder at 13, who has a lot of potential - but probably isn't ready for the step up just yet, or England could go with Turner-Hall and Barritt in the centres, however this would be a very one dimensional centre pairing, mainly focused on defence. However England will most likely go with Farrell and Barritt in the centres with Hodgson at 10, an all Saracens combination. Whilst this works at club level, at international level I have doubts over Farrells all-round game, his goal kicking is exceptional and he is a good ball playing centre, however defensively I've seen him slip off too many tackles, whilst his decision making in defence is questionable.

One player I feel could make a smooth transition to outside centre would be Ben Foden. England have a certain luxury at full back at the moment. Perhaps in this pecking order England have Ben Foden, Mike Brown, Alex Goode, Delon Armitage, Nick Abendanon, Rob Miller, Chris Pennell, and not forgetting Olly Morgan and Matthew Tait when they come back from injury all capable of putting in a decent shift at full back for England.

Mike Brown is in particularly good form at the moment, and there isn't an area of his game that is suffering. He seems to be rock solidly defensively and thrilling in attack, dominant under the high ball and he has a huge boot on him. He is the form full back in the northern hemisphere. His main problem at the moment is that probably the second best full back in the northern hemisphere on form is Ben Foden, who is arguably one of England's best players, with an untarnished reputation on and off the pitch.

However I feel England should accommodate both of these players who are in such wonderful form. I'd play Brown at full back and move Foden to outside centre. At outside centre, Foden wouldn't struggle defensively as he is a top class tackler and his acceleration and power would help him with front up tackling and cover tackles. In attack he would arguably be more dangerous, able to hit lines at pace, use his outside break and draw in defenders to release the back three. Also if you partnered Barritt and Foden together, you would get a good balance in the centres. Whilst I'd be willing to play Farrell at 10, simply because he is the future and has been goal kicking week in, week out for Saracens ahead of his rival for the England 10 shirt Hodgson, and
with Barritt and Foden outside him, he would have two players who are very strong defensively and offer lots of options in attack. Whilst with Hodgson on the bench, England have his experience to rely on if things don't work out for Farrell.

I don't think Lancaster should worry about dropping players into the deep end at this moment in time, therefore this would be my team against Scotland in the six nations...

1. J.Marler
2. D.Hartley
3. D.Cole
4. M.Botha
5. T.Palmer
6. T.Croft
7. C.Robshaw (c)
8. B.Morgan
9. B.Youngs
10. O.Farrell
11. D.Strettle
12. B.Barritt
13. B.Foden
14. C.Ashton
15. M.Brown

16. M.Stevens
17. R.Webber
18. D.Attwood
19. P.Dowson
20. L.Dickson
21. C.Hodgson
22. C.Sharples

I am afraid i just dont see Croft as a starting 6 for England. He is undoubtedly talented guy with athleticism and pace...BUT this is my current problem with the whole England pack....where are the nasty powerhouses.

Even the "hard men" like Lawes are more athletic than monstrous beasts...

We need to develop a ruthless powerful pack....then maybe Croft can be utilised more....

Im afraid i would go with a back row of

6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

robshaw4england wrote:The real issue here is that Robshaw should have been picked for England ahead of Croft years ago. Imagine how he could have developed into one of the best flankers in the world if he'd been given more than one chance at international level. However his international development was hindered due to Johnson believing he was not 'sharp enough for international rugby' and picking the one-dimensional melonhead Worsley, show pony Croft and braindead Haskell ahead of him. Robshaw has not only shown he is the best tackling flanker in the premiership over the past few seasons, but he is by far the best footballing link-man flanker as well. He's also developed into a dependable ball carrier and a fine leader for Harlequins. He will be the next captain of England.

Previously England decided to go with Haskell, a player who has only recently started to live up to his potential and Croft, someone who so many of you have bigged up over the past few years and are finally coming round to the idea that he doesn't carry out the basic needs of a blindside flanker - grunt, ball carrying in the tight, a high tackle count, big hits and turnovers.

Croft is a luxury, however England should not turn their back on him. When Haskell gets back from his 'holiday' and Fearns gets a string of games together, England will have the choice of Robshaw, Wood, Croft, Fearns, Haskell and Morgan in their backrow, with the likes of Callum Clark and Matt Kvesic and more pushing hard as well. Exciting times ahead.

i'm sorry but with a username like that i'm not even going to bother reading your reply!

GeordieFalcon wrote:I am afraid i just dont see Croft as a starting 6 for England. He is undoubtedly talented guy with athleticism and pace...BUT this is my current problem with the whole England pack....where are the nasty powerhouses.

Even the "hard men" like Lawes are more athletic than monstrous beasts...

We need to develop a ruthless powerful pack....then maybe Croft can be utilised more....

Im afraid i would go with a back row of

6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

i do find it funny that going back a couple of years fans were bemoaning that England were full of fat gym monkeys, yet know we're all calling for them back.

Stop pining for the past. That style of play is gone forever. And most of us are thankful.

I think it is possible to be a huge physical specimen and extremely athletic.. just look at the likes of Ferris.

Nathan...

Im not calling to go back totally to fat overweight beasts....im saying that you still need a few tough boys in there...to compliment the athletic guys....all the top teams have it...and we need it.

Rory...
Ferris is a freak of nature....

Miteypaw...

Why should that style be gone and simply forgotten. Many people enjoyed watching rolling mauls ploughing up the field....rucks that could actually be fought for....and all shapes and sizes played...not just rugby league style one shape fits all!

Maybe I should pick a better example.. Burger, Kaino, Read, Parrisse, Harinordoquy.. these guys are all examples of tall, athletic, but very big players. Croft should be aspiring to get to this level.

Yes thats more like it...

Croft will never get to that level. It isn't his style of play. He doesn't have the awareness or athletic qualities of those guys. Yes hes quick but hes dopy and weak in the contact areas. He needs to have a hard look at the way he plays the game in my opinion.
Kieran Read for example made his debut around the same time, he wasn't really rated that highly but he really stepped up his game and took ownership of the 8 shirt, Croft hasn't improved since the Lions Tour.

He doesn't need to have the "athletic qualities" (which I think is a load of rubbish anyway, if anything he is more athletic, with better pace and jumping ability, but lacking the same size/build). He needs aggression in his game, and that as you have said yourself about Read, is to do with attitude. He needs to take things to the next level, stop running about like a fairy and stick the head down, get stuck into the opposition!

Well apart from being quick (very quick apparently) and a good lineout option i honestly don't see anything 'athletic' about Croft.
Pierre Spies is probably the fastest forward in the world yet he isn't that good.
Harinordoquy, Parisse, Burger beat defenders with sidesteps, swerves and basically just knowing when to run Croft doesn't have that hes just fast. You don't have to be aggressive to beat a defender you just have to know how. Even when he stands out on the wing all he does is run in a straight line.

gowales wrote:Well apart from being quick (very quick apparently) and a good lineout option i honestly don't see anything 'athletic' about Croft.
Pierre Spies is probably the fastest forward in the world yet he isn't that good.
Harinordoquy, Parisse, Burger beat defenders with sidesteps, swerves and basically just knowing when to run Croft doesn't have that hes just fast. You don't have to be aggressive to beat a defender you just have to know how. Even when he stands out on the wing all he does is run in a straight line.

I guess it depends on what you mean by athletic. Generally I think of athletic ability as having a good balance of speed, power and strength. Croft does have that, and he can run faster and jump higher than most, and at 6 foot 5, that is a very good trait to have. However, his attitude is all wrong. Pierre Spies is a good example of who I would think is the best athlete in world rugby, but as you say he isn't that good. That is his rugby ability that is off though, not his athleticism.

Perhaps hes just too lanky.

If that were the case, the likes of Smith as pointed out earlier, with basically the exact same build as Croft, wouldn't be the player he is. And Devin Toner who is starting to become a real hassle, is the lankiest forward there is. Or even Charteris for Wales. It is attitude, not size/build/height, that is Croft's problem.

Confidence seems to be one of his issues as well. You never see him take a game by the scruff of the neck and get involved. He kind of just fades, and he doesn't have the grit to compensate for it like Juan Smith or Dusautoir.

I should have also said that he doesn't have the skills of the other top backrow forwards. I don't think i've ever seen him make an offload.

Tom Wood will ecplipse him soon anyway...he should be starting at either 6/7...much stronger in the tight confrontations...and he's a similar build as Croft.