Lions XV

by Chunky Norwich Mon 13 Feb 2012, 12:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Starting XV only. If the 1st test was tomorrow, and all are fit and well:

1. G Jenkins
2. M Rees
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. S Warburton
8. S O'Brien

9. M Phillips
10. J Sexton
11. T Bowe
12. J Roberts
13. B O'Driscoll
14. G North
15. L Halfpenny

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:56 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:

No. I just comment on rugby forums. I actually don't have a televison.

Yeah that's pretty obvious considering some of the comments you are making about one of Scotland's best players. He is a fantastic carrier, makes his takcles when they are needed, solid in the scrum, accurate in the line out, quick in the loose and a menace at the breakdown.

Not really sure what more you want from a hooker. Do you want him to take the kicks at goal too?

Best and Ford at the moment are clear Lions starters due to the fact Rees has been out of international rugby for a wee while. Confused as to why he is getting so many mentions.

I'm just saying he doesn't do those things as well as others.

And no offence, but "one of Scotland's best players" doesn't mean he's a world beater does it?

Matthew Rees has been included in many people's teams for the same reason that the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi and Courtenay Lawes have.

by IanBru Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:04 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Matthew Rees has been included in many people's teams for the same reason that the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi and Courtenay Lawes have.

I'm assuming it's for Rees' lovely baritone voice, as I can't think of another reason.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:06 pm

IanBru wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Matthew Rees has been included in many people's teams for the same reason that the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi and Courtenay Lawes have.

I'm assuming it's for Rees' lovely baritone voice, as I can't think of another reason.

You need to buy that Lions DVD from 2009

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:08 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I'm just saying he doesn't do those things as well as others.

And no offence, but "one of Scotland's best players" doesn't mean he's a world beater does it?

Matthew Rees has been included in many people's teams for the same reason that the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi and Courtenay Lawes have.

Who Carries better than Ford?
Who Scrammages better than Ford?
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose?
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford?

Best and Ford are by some distance the best the UK and Ireland have to offer at the moment.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:11 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Who Carries better than Ford?
Who Scrammages better than Ford?
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose?
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford?

.

Who Carries better than Ford? - Dylan Hartley, Rory Best, Matthew Rees.
Who Scrummages better than Ford? Matthew Rees. By a mile.
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose? - I haven't measured. Ross could well be the quickest.
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford? Rory Best and Matthew Rees

by wonder_man Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:13 pm

G Jenkins
M Rees
A Jones
I Evans
P O'Connel
Ferris
S Warburton
T Falateau
M Phillips
R Preistland
G (the machine) North
J Roberts
Tuilagi
L Halfpenny
Kearney
not at all biased Laugh

by TJ1 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:14 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Who Carries better than Ford?
Who Scrammages better than Ford?
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose?
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford?

.

Who Carries better than Ford? - Dylan Hartley, Rory Best, Matthew Rees.
Who Scrummages better than Ford? Matthew Rees. By a mile.
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose? - I haven't measured. Ross could well be the quickest.
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford? Rory Best and Matthew Rees

I suggest you watch some (more) games. Hartley carries better than Ford? laughing

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:18 pm

TJ wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Who Carries better than Ford?
Who Scrammages better than Ford?
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose?
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford?

.

Who Carries better than Ford? - Dylan Hartley, Rory Best, Matthew Rees.
Who Scrummages better than Ford? Matthew Rees. By a mile.
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose? - I haven't measured. Ross could well be the quickest.
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford? Rory Best and Matthew Rees

I suggest you watch some (more) games. Hartley carries better than Ford?

Do you agree with ANY of the opinions I posted?

This thread has just turned into posters putting forward their favourite national players .

Ford was behind Matthew Rees the last Lions Tour and in the last 3 years he hasn't overtaken him. Assuming Rees picks up where he left off, to put Ford above him is evry optimistic even for the Scots!

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:18 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Who Carries better than Ford?
Who Scrammages better than Ford?
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose?
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford?

.

Who Carries better than Ford? - Dylan Hartley, Rory Best, Matthew Rees.
Who Scrummages better than Ford? Matthew Rees. By a mile.
Who is quicker than Ford in the loose? - I haven't measured. Ross could well be the quickest.
Who is better at the breakdown than Ford? Rory Best and Matthew Rees

I know we're Scottish and biased but come on!

Don't think anyone can deny that, if he maintains his form he has a chance of making the lions test team. He's not a a clear front runner but to dismiss him as being worse than several players is simply wrong!

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:22 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Ford was behind Matthew Rees the last Lions Tour and in the last 3 years he hasn't overtaken him. Assuming Rees picks up where he left off, to put Ford above him is evry optimistic even for the Scots!

Both Rees and Ford were behind Lee Mears! So that doesn't count for much!

Currently Ford and Best are the best players at 2 in contention for the Lions. That is my opinion, I respect yours Norwich despite it being wrong Wink

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:25 pm

I don't think us punters can really judge a hookers scrummaging performance really - other than what their own props say about them. You can't really tell how well a hooker is scrummaging just by looking at them! You never give scrum penalties cause of a hooker doing something (other than early engage.)

I'm not sure what the Scottish props think of him but can't see them having many problems.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:28 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:. He's not a a clear front runner but to dismiss him as being worse than several players is simply wrong!

How is it wrong if he's not a clear front runner?

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:30 pm

As in you seem to be dismissing him completely. I said he's not a clear front runner so you don't think we're just being nationalistically biased, but to dismiss him as being well down the pecking order is plain wrong!

And remember this thread is technically form after week 2 - Rees hasn't even played yet, Hartley hasn't really stood out and the rest are Italian and French! Run

So Best and Ford for me!

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:34 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:to dismiss him as being well down the pecking order is plain wrong!

It's wrong according to you yes. I'd have him as 3rd best hooker in the Home Nations at the moment.

If that's "wrong" the you maya s well pack this forum up if people's opinions are going to be "wrong".

remember this thread is technically form after week 2

No it's not.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:35 pm

"Lions XV after week 2"

chin

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:35 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Lions XV after week 2"

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:36 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:to dismiss him as being well down the pecking order is plain wrong!

It's wrong according to you yes. I'd have him as 3rd best hooker in the Home Nations at the moment.

If that's "wrong" the you maya s well pack this forum up if people's opinions are going to be "wrong".

Apologies - badly worded. You're entitled to your opinion, it is just my opnion that that facts behind your opinion are wrong! Wink

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:41 pm

Why would I have put O'Driscoll in if it was a team based on 6Nations form?

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:45 pm

You wouldn't, but with a title of "Lions xv after week 2" you could maybe forgive people's confusion! Headscratch

Are you selecting players based on current 6 nations form or the best xv available, irrespective of injury and form? The title suggests the former, the text in your opener suggests the later.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:47 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Are you selecting players based on current 6 nations form or the best xv available, irrespective of injury and form? The title suggests the former, the text in your opener suggests the later.

Very first senetnce of the thread:

"Starting XV only. If the 1st test was tomorrow, and all are fit and well:"

Nothing to do with 6N Form, as my team selection and post alluded to.

I wish I'd just put "February" instead of "after round 2".

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:48 pm

Well if it was February, then BOD/Rees etc would hardly be available.

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:50 pm

Would "My Lions XV" not clear everything up??

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:50 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well if it was February, then BOD/Rees etc would hardly be available.

If you can't read, yes.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:50 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Would "My Lions XV" not clear everything up??

Go Nuts.

by wonder_man Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:50 pm

no disrespect but i dont see any scots in the first XV. Certainly not in the back line.

by Guest Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:53 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Would "My Lions XV" not clear everything up??

I think "My Welsh XV" would probably describe it better.

by **RDW** Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:53 pm

Sorry to be pedantic - but it is a much different discussion for a Lions XV whether it is based on 6 nations form and availability or just picking any players you want! The confusion has come from the title and thread suggesting contrasting things.

Anyway - lets move on!

I agree the chances are slim for any Scots being in the starting XV (current form or otherwise) but there's still a long way to go!

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:53 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well if it was February, then BOD/Rees etc would hardly be available.

If you can't read, yes.

Well why not just call it Lions XV instead of adding "after week 2" or "in February" to save the confusion?

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:54 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Would "My Lions XV" not clear everything up??
I think "My Welsh XV" would probably describe it better.

Give us your XV then Milky.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:54 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Would "My Lions XV" not clear everything up??
I think "My Welsh XV" would probably describe it better.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:54 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry to be pedantic - but it is a much different discussion for a Lions XV whether it is based on 6 nations form and availability or just picking any players you want! The confusion has come from the title and thread suggesting contrasting things.

!

It's my fault for assuming posters would have read the opening post.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:04 pm

wonder_man wrote:no disrespect but i dont see any scots in the first XV. Certainly not in the back line.

Richie Gray is probably the best lock in world rugby at the moment. Pretty hard to argue against that.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:07 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
wonder_man wrote:no disrespect but i dont see any scots in the first XV. Certainly not in the back line.

Richie Gray is probably the best lock in world rugby at the moment. Pretty hard to argue against that.

Now come on. There is patriotism and there is down right one eyedness. But that comment just makes you look so biased it's silly.

The best lock on the planet? Really?

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:08 pm

He is certainly up there. Who would you place above him Chunky?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:15 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why would I have put O'Driscoll in if it was a team based on 6Nations form?

Well ...

Chunky Norwich wrote:No. I just comment on rugby forums. I actually don't have a televison.

So maybe you hadn't noticed he was injured? Headscratch

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:18 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Why would I have put O'Driscoll in if it was a team based on 6Nations form?

Well ...

Chunky Norwich wrote:No. I just comment on rugby forums. I actually don't have a televison.

So maybe you hadn't noticed he was injured?

[tempted to scream]

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:19 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Why would I have put O'Driscoll in if it was a team based on 6Nations form?

Well ...

Chunky Norwich wrote:No. I just comment on rugby forums. I actually don't have a televison.

So maybe you hadn't noticed he was injured?

[tempted to scream]

We could always ask for an emoticon? or you could just use: steam

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:19 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
wonder_man wrote:no disrespect but i dont see any scots in the first XV. Certainly not in the back line.

Richie Gray is probably the best lock in world rugby at the moment. Pretty hard to argue against that.

Now come on. There is patriotism and there is down right one eyedness. But that comment just makes you look so biased it's silly.

The best lock on the planet? Really?

Yeah I trully believe he is one of the best if not the best in the world. Very few players have his abilities. At 6ft 9 and tipping the scales at 19st 12 he moves like a backrower, carries well, makes a huge number of tackles, powerful in the scrum and steals plenty of oppisition line out ball.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:23 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
wonder_man wrote:no disrespect but i dont see any scots in the first XV. Certainly not in the back line.

Richie Gray is probably the best lock in world rugby at the moment. Pretty hard to argue against that.

Now come on. There is patriotism and there is down right one eyedness. But that comment just makes you look so biased it's silly.

The best lock on the planet? Really?

Chunky, name your top 3 locks in the world, right now

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:25 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:He is certainly up there. Who would you place above him Chunky?

Well, duties between the 2 locks can differ but I'd say Gray has all these to contend with:

BradThorne has been the best lock on the planet for about 5 years.

Then you have the usual suspects like Matfield, Muller, Botha, Albacete. I'd also rate O'Connell above him plus Andries Bekker.

Pape is pretty good, as is Alun Wyn Jones, plus Nathan Sharpe. Doesn't mean Gray isn't any good. He is.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:32 pm

Gray's Stats in this years 6N :

Meters Carried = 89
Clean breaks = 2
Defenders Beaten = 3
Tackles made = 15
Tackles Missed = 0
Lineouts Won = 11
Opposition Linouts spoiled / won = 4

I personally don't read that much into stats but even to most posters here I think there is very little doubt he is one of the best in the world at the moment. I think POC is one of the best locks in the world and to be honest I would not want to swap Gray for POC.

I also wouldn't think any of the home nations would think twice about welcomeing him into their 1st XV.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:36 pm

Gray would be in my world 15 like. Chunky it just looks as if you are naming every second row that comes into your head. Very few of them are as good as Gray right now.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:38 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

I also wouldn't think any of the home nations would think twice about welcomeing him into their 1st XV.

They'd be a fool not to. But he's not the best in the world.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:39 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote: Very few of them are as good as Gray right now.

In your opinion. In my opinion most are better.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:39 pm

To further put into perspective his importance he has made more clean breaks and carried the ball further than Jamie Roberts or George North and beaten more defenders than Roberts too.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:42 pm

Not to mention the fact Gray is still what 22? Yet he has a huge work-rate, is an excellent ball carrier, he has pace, he has a rugby brain, is a brilliant tackler. He is an outstanding player.

by bluestonevedder Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:43 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:To further put into perspective his importance he has made more clean breaks and carried the ball further than Jamie Roberts or George North and beaten more defenders than Roberts too.

That is incredibly impressive. I had no idea about those stats

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:46 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not to mention the fact Gray is still what 22? Yet he has a huge work-rate, is an excellent ball carrier, he has pace, he has a rugby brain, is a brilliant tackler. He is an outstanding player.

Rory, but Chunky won't pick him unless he can make a nice cup of tea too cuppa

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:47 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:To further put into perspective his importance he has made more clean breaks and carried the ball further than Jamie Roberts or George North and beaten more defenders than Roberts too.

I think that's incorrect about Roberts.

But, to put your stats in perepctive, Italy's full back carried the ball 173 metres against France. Doesn't really mean much as others have pointed out to me.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:48 pm

Ah yes that is true, and since Davies won't be playing much rugby anytime soon, I'm sure he has plenty of time to make a few cups Run

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