Lions XV

by Chunky Norwich Mon 13 Feb 2012, 12:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Starting XV only. If the 1st test was tomorrow, and all are fit and well:

1. G Jenkins
2. M Rees
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. S Warburton
8. S O'Brien

9. M Phillips
10. J Sexton
11. T Bowe
12. J Roberts
13. B O'Driscoll
14. G North
15. L Halfpenny

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:49 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:d since Davies won't be playing much rugby anytime soon, I'm sure he has plenty of time to make a few cups

Bless you're little attempt to get a rise Very Happy

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:50 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:To further put into perspective his importance he has made more clean breaks and carried the ball further than Jamie Roberts or George North and beaten more defenders than Roberts too.

I think that's incorrect about Roberts.

But, to put your stats in perepctive, Italy's full back carried the ball 173 metres against France. Doesn't really mean much as others have pointed out to me.

People pointed out to you that focusing on just one single stat (tackling was the stat you used) is not a measure of how a player has played. You ignored all other stats to emphasise how good Faletau has been when really, he has been less effective than most 8s in the competition.

So far Denton, Heaslip, Picamoles and Parisse have been better.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:51 pm

Oh come on Chunky, it was quite clearly a joke Whistle

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:51 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
So far Denton, Heaslip, Picamoles and Parisse have been better.

How many games have they won between them this 6Nations?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:00 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:To further put into perspective his importance he has made more clean breaks and carried the ball further than Jamie Roberts or George North and beaten more defenders than Roberts too.

I think that's incorrect about Roberts.

But, to put your stats in perepctive, Italy's full back carried the ball 173 metres against France. Doesn't really mean much as others have pointed out to me.

Metres run: JR: (Ire) 24 + (Sco) 71 vs RG: (Eng) 52 + (Wal) 37 => winner = RG
Clean breaks: JR: (Ire) 0 + (Sco) 2 vs RG: (Eng) 1 + (Wal) 1 => evens

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:00 pm

Pretty rubbish argument to emphasise how good a player is. It is a 15 man game. An individual can still be better than another individual even if one loses and one wins. This isn't boxing.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:06 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Metres run: JR: (Ire) 24 + (Sco) 71 vs RG: (Eng) 52 + (Wal) 37 => winner = RG

I'm scratching my head here.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:18 pm

Chunky, my bad, trying to do too many things at once here. Let's call it evens Ok!

by Feckless Rogue Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:20 pm

Gray is outstanding. I rate O'Connell very highly because I really do believe that leadership, experience and being a respected and intimidating captain is hugely important, especially on a tour. And he's still the best lineout operator around. But Gray is phenomenal. He's gonna be a star of the Lions tour, I'm sure of it.

by R!skysports Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:30 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote: Then you have the usual suspects like Matfield, Muller, Botha, Albacete. I'd also rate O'Connell above him plus Andries Bekker.

Pape is pretty good, as is Alun Wyn Jones, plus Nathan Sharpe. Doesn't mean Gray isn't any good. He is.

Ah I see it now - they have been good in the past so assumption they are the best now

Sorry, but you seem to be just wanting to pick a fight, dismissing every argument based on peoples opinions PLUS facts based on your opinion that your choice is the best

Also, your heading IS misleading and makes it confusing - as it implies based on 6 nation form - would be kicked out by the Clear Writing alliance

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:39 pm

Riskysports wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote: Then you have the usual suspects like Matfield, Muller, Botha, Albacete. I'd also rate O'Connell above him plus Andries Bekker.

Pape is pretty good, as is Alun Wyn Jones, plus Nathan Sharpe. Doesn't mean Gray isn't any good. He is.

Ah I see it now - they have been good in the past so assumption they are the best now

Sorry, but you seem to be just wanting to pick a fight, dismissing every argument based on peoples opinions PLUS facts based on your opinion that your choice is the best

Also, your heading IS misleading and makes it confusing - as it implies based on 6 nation form - would be kicked out by the Clear Writing alliance

Hmmm. Sad that it's come to this.

I never said my choices were the best. If I thought that I wouldn't have started a thread on a rugby forum asking people to debate them.

by R!skysports Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:45 pm

yes, it is more that you decided to put almiost every second row in the world above the one others were talking about just to try to (IMO) wind up the Scottish posters

In fact I think Gray has a bit to go to be the best in the world, but is in rare form and if he can keep developing (scrumminging) and keep injury free. I think his form in the first two games, had been at the top of the second row tree and would be a shoe in to start the first lions test (if based on 6 nations form)

If based on the last year, I think he would still be a good choice to start - depends on who would be the grunt man beside him

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:46 pm

Riskysports wrote:yes, it is more that you decided to put almiost every second row in the world above the one others were talking about just to try to (IMO) wind up the Scottish posters

In fact I think Gray has a bit to go to be the best in the world, but is in rare form and if he can keep developing (scrumminging) and keep injury free. I think his form in the first two games, had been at the top of the second row tree and would be a shoe in to start the first lions test (if based on 6 nations form)

If based on the last year, I think he would still be a good choice to start - depends on who would be the grunt man beside him

I can't help it if you think that.

I was just answering the question hnosnetly. If you think my post was a wind up go and report it to someone.

I think you are a little too sensitive.

by R!skysports Thu 16 Feb 2012, 3:59 pm

Anyway, on to my choice of players from the 6 nations

1. Corbisorario (or however spelt)
2. Ford
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Struggling with this, as not any been good so far
10. J Sexton
11. Cuthebrt
12. J Roberts
13. Again no stand out for me
14. Jones
15. L Halfpenny

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:01 pm

Riskysports wrote:Anyway, on to my choice of players from the 6 nations

1. Corbisorario (or however spelt)
2. Ford
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Struggling with this, as not any been good so far
10. J Sexton
11. Cuthebrt
12. J Roberts
13. Again no stand out for me
14. Jones
15. L Halfpenny

Risky, I don't care how it's spelled, I much prefer yours!!

by Chunky Norwich Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:01 pm

Riskysports wrote:Anyway, on to my choice of players from the 6 nations

1. Corbisorario (or however spelt)
2. Ford
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Struggling with this, as not any been good so far
10. J Sexton
11. Cuthebrt
12. J Roberts
13. Again no stand out for me
14. Jones
15. L Halfpenny

You won't get many people reacting with a troll as poor as that

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:02 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Riskysports wrote:Anyway, on to my choice of players from the 6 nations

1. Corbisorario (or however spelt)
2. Ford
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Struggling with this, as not any been good so far
10. J Sexton
11. Cuthebrt
12. J Roberts
13. Again no stand out for me
14. Jones
15. L Halfpenny

You won't get many people reacting with a troll as poor as that

Yeah, c'mon, Risky, if you haven't got George North in at least 4 positions, everyone knows that you're just being a troll thumbsup

by R!skysports Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:28 pm

Actually thought that Cuthbert was playing better (North was quite quiet before going on in his second game) - however would not have issue having North there as I think he will be a dangerous and fantastic player (remember I am basing mine on 6N performances ony)

by R!skysports Thu 16 Feb 2012, 4:28 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Riskysports wrote:Anyway, on to my choice of players from the 6 nations

1. Corbisorario (or however spelt)
2. Ford
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Struggling with this, as not any been good so far
10. J Sexton
11. Cuthebrt
12. J Roberts
13. Again no stand out for me
14. Jones
15. L Halfpenny

Which bit is the troll?
You won't get many people reacting with a troll as poor as that

by thebluesmancometh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:06 pm

My team...

Healy
Ford
Cole
POC
Davies
SOB
Warburton
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
Bowe
Roberts
Davies
North
Kearney

A few key players picked because of their relationships working (davies/roberts) some because of a lack of options (Phillips) and some very unlucky not to be there (Gray/Foden/Denton/Hartley/1/2p)

by Taffineastbourne Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:21 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:My team...

Healy
Ford
Cole
POC
Davies
SOB
Warburton
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
Bowe
Roberts
Davies
North
Kearney

A few key players picked because of their relationships working (davies/roberts) some because of a lack of options (Phillips) and some very unlucky not to be there (Gray/Foden/Denton/Hartley/1/2p)

Cannot see Gatland picking more Irish than Welsh after his players have won the last 3 encounters.One can dream.Hopefully Gats will pick on form rather than national bias.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:35 pm

If it is Gats, thats not confirmed is it?

OK switch in Jenkins and Jones for Healy and Cole, 1/2p in for Kearney and Gray in for POC... better?

by Taffineastbourne Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:41 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:If it is Gats, thats not confirmed is it?

OK switch in Jenkins and Jones for Healy and Cole, 1/2p in for Kearney and Gray in for POC... better?

Nearly!I would keep Kearney whom I really rate and include 1/2p for Bowe who has not been what he was for a good couple of years now. Hug

by thebluesmancometh Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:43 pm

In his defence he is scoring tries still, and he is struggling in a poor O's team week in week out, bet he rues the option to stay over a munster move now!!!

by Taffineastbourne Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:51 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:In his defence he is scoring tries still, and he is struggling in a poor O's team week in week out, bet he rues the option to stay over a munster move now!!!

I wish the Dragons were "struggling" like the "poor O's team"!!!!!!! Sad

by Feckless Rogue Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:30 pm

I think Ferris and Sexton became front runners today. Sexton was really good, while Priestland was poor. Ferris was brilliant.

I thought Kearney, Foden and Halfpenny were all great. I'd be happy with any of the three.

Tuilagi was really good. A partnership with Roberts would be frightening. Youngs was terrible and Murray was poor. Phillips is still the only scrumhalf worth mentioning.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:32 pm

I think Kearney stands above the other options at 15 really. He has been so impressive lately.

by TycroesOsprey Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:35 pm

After today, Sexton definitely has to be from runner for the lions ten shirt. I thought Kearney was sublime today as well. Priestland had a nightmare but will learn.

by **rodders** Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:37 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think Kearney stands above the other options at 15 really. He has been so impressive lately.

+ 1 Hes been sensational this season. Peerless under the highball and has added a new dimension in attack. Outstanding today again. Halfpenny has been playing very well but for me its Kearney by a distance.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:37 pm

Tuilagi also must have put his name down at 13. He wasn't even at full fitness and yet he tore the place up. Punched holes in the welsh defence for fun. His awareness is great also. It is just a shame that he had Ashton outside him who I thought was pretty awful.

by 123456789 Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:38 pm

Mike Blair might have a look in at this rate

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:39 pm

roddersm wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think Kearney stands above the other options at 15 really. He has been so impressive lately.

+ 1 Hes been sensational this season. Peerless under the highball and has added a new dimension in attack. Outstanding today again. Halfpenny has been playing very well but for me its Kearney by a distance.

Even when Kearney was up there with the best in the world at 15 (around 2009) his attack wasn't this good. He is just so explosive, keeps his legs pumping and he has the agility to get himself out of any tricky situations. Sublime really.

by samuraidragon Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:49 pm

Luckily for Priestland we won that game. Worst performance by a Welsh 10 since Henson. Enough with this "he will learn" stuff. He is not good enough.

by **rodders** Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:53 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
roddersm wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think Kearney stands above the other options at 15 really. He has been so impressive lately.

+ 1 Hes been sensational this season. Peerless under the highball and has added a new dimension in attack. Outstanding today again. Halfpenny has been playing very well but for me its Kearney by a distance.

Even when Kearney was up there with the best in the world at 15 (around 2009) his attack wasn't this good. He is just so explosive, keeps his legs pumping and he has the agility to get himself out of any tricky situations. Sublime really.

I agree Rory hes playing far better now than in '09....don't want to go all hyperbole and say hes the best in the world....his attack has improved out of sight and he's possibly the best player under the high ball I've ever seen...the lions is a long way away but for me he's in the driving seat.

Tuilagi was sensational today.

by Golden Sat 25 Feb 2012, 6:59 pm

samuraidragon wrote:Luckily for Priestland we won that game. Worst performance by a Welsh 10 since Henson. Enough with this "he will learn" stuff. He is not good enough.

Are you serious? He was one of your best players at the RWC and was the best player on the pitch (kicking aside) against Ireland this 6 nations. Was poor today but thats the only time hes played badly for Wales that I can remember definitely at out-half anyway.

by TycroesOsprey Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:00 pm

samuraidragon wrote:Luckily for Priestland we won that game. Worst performance by a Welsh 10 since Henson. Enough with this "he will learn" stuff. He is not good enough.

As bad as Priestland was today he was nowhere near as bad as Henson agaisnt Ireland in 2006. However I do think he is developing and Im happy with that. I do expect our boys to geta bit of a beasting in training acter some of the decsion making today which will do them no harm. I would love to see Tovey step up and really push RP as I see him as the most realistic challenger for the ten spot. I would be willing to wager when he goes to Cardiff Gatts will take more notice of him.

by offload Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:03 pm

samuraidragon wrote:Luckily for Priestland we won that game. Worst performance by a Welsh 10 since Henson. Enough with this "he will learn" stuff. He is not good enough.

Ridiculous.

by samuraidragon Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:07 pm

Really? Did Henson get charged down and yellow carded? Did he get turned over on his own 25? Did he miss penalties to touch (actually I think he did once)?

Very , very poor.

by stlowe Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:13 pm

roddersm wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
roddersm wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think Kearney stands above the other options at 15 really. He has been so impressive lately.

+ 1 Hes been sensational this season. Peerless under the highball and has added a new dimension in attack. Outstanding today again. Halfpenny has been playing very well but for me its Kearney by a distance.

Even when Kearney was up there with the best in the world at 15 (around 2009) his attack wasn't this good. He is just so explosive, keeps his legs pumping and he has the agility to get himself out of any tricky situations. Sublime really.

I agree Rory hes playing far better now than in '09....don't want to go all hyperbole and say hes the best in the world....his attack has improved out of sight and he's possibly the best player under the high ball I've ever seen...the lions is a long way away but for me he's in the driving seat.

Tuilagi was sensational today.

+1, he stood out as an exceptionally solid FB a couple of seasons ago, he was off form last season, but is back with avengance and a more attacking game this season.

In form I think Foden is the better attacking FB, but on current form I'd have Kearney at FB and probably North & Halfpenny on the wings

by **RDW** Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:39 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned o'connoll who I thought was absolutely hurculean today! Lions captains performance imo.

Tuilagi made some fantastic carries but literally never passes - my concern is a Roberts Tuilagi midfield would lack the distribution we'd need against Australia.

by Morgannwg Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:50 pm

Davies and Tuilagi then?

by king_carlos Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:51 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned o'connoll who I thought was absolutely hurculean today! Lions captains performance imo.

Tuilagi made some fantastic carries but literally never passes - my concern is a Roberts Tuilagi midfield would lack the distribution we'd need against Australia.

Agree with all that!

Thought O'Connell was brilliant so much grunt work and would have been a worthy MOM alongside Ferris or Sexton.

Tuilagi was very good today but his distribution will improve with time. Hopefully O'Driscoll can come back strong as ever though - still one of the best centre's in the world for me! Also Jonathon Davies whilst quiet today was outstanding against Scotland and Ireland.

Right now presuming all players fit I'd go for;

1.Jenkins
2.Ford
3.Jones
4.O'Connell (capt)
5.Gray
6.Ferris
7.Warburton (what a player!)
8.Faletau (tough call with Heaslip there)

9.Phillips (no-one else really put their hand up yet)
10.Sexton

11.North
12.Roberts
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney (Halfpenny very close behind)

16.Rees
17.Healy
18.Wyn Jones (first class player will refind form)
19.Heaslip
20.Blair (not much going on at scrum-half so far)
21.Priestland
22.Halfpenny

Should be a great squad with one hell of a back row!!

by **Biltong** Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:55 pm

If I had to pick a Lions squad.

15. Kearney/ Halfpenny
14. Cuthbert/Bowe
13. Davies/Tuilagi
12. Barrit/Roberts
11. North/Hogg
10. Priestland/farrel
9. Phillips/Laidlaw
8. Heaslip/Denton
7. Warburton/Rennie
6. Lydiate/Ferris
5. O'Connell/ AW Jones
4. O'Chalaghan/Gray
3. Cole/Jones
2. Hartley/Best
1. Healy/Jenkins

by TycroesOsprey Sat 25 Feb 2012, 7:59 pm

king_carlos wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned o'connoll who I thought was absolutely hurculean today! Lions captains performance imo.

Tuilagi made some fantastic carries but literally never passes - my concern is a Roberts Tuilagi midfield would lack the distribution we'd need against Australia.

Agree with all that!

Thought O'Connell was brilliant so much grunt work and would have been a worthy MOM alongside Ferris or Sexton.

Tuilagi was very good today but his distribution will improve with time. Hopefully O'Driscoll can come back strong as ever though - still one of the best centre's in the world for me! Also Jonathon Davies whilst quiet today was outstanding against Scotland and Ireland.

Right now presuming all players fit I'd go for;

1.Jenkins
2.Ford
3.Jones
4.O'Connell (capt)
5.Gray
6.Ferris
7.Warburton (what a player!)
8.Faletau (tough call with Heaslip there)

9.Phillips (no-one else really put their hand up yet)
10.Sexton

11.North
12.Roberts
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney (Halfpenny very close behind)

16.Rees
17.Healy
18.Wyn Jones (first class player will refind form)
19.Heaslip
20.Blair (not much going on at scrum-half so far)
21.Priestland
22.Halfpenny

Should be a great squad with one hell of a back row!!

Think I would agree with that but swap Heaslip with Faletau on the bench and bring Farrell in over Priestland after today. However its still 18 months away so a lot can happen.

by ChequeredJersey Sat 25 Feb 2012, 8:50 pm

biltongbek wrote:If I had to pick a Lions squad.

15. Kearney/ Halfpenny
14. Cuthbert/Bowe
13. Davies/Tuilagi
12. Barrit/Roberts
11. North/Hogg
10. Priestland/farrel
9. Phillips/Laidlaw
8. Heaslip/Denton
7. Warburton/Rennie
6. Lydiate/Ferris
5. O'Connell/ AW Jones
4. O'Chalaghan/Gray
3. Cole/Jones
2. Hartley/Best
1. Healy/Jenkins

Switch Halfpenny to wing and Hogg to 15 and you've got a decent squad. Mostly they are more than 30 men though, at least 1 more player in each "specialist" position- so if Hogg goes to 15, add in: Trimble, Sexton, Blair, Faletau, Ford and Corbs at least

by **Biltong** Sat 25 Feb 2012, 8:53 pm

Agreed chequered, but I don't know ford and Corbs?

by ChequeredJersey Sat 25 Feb 2012, 8:57 pm

biltongbek wrote:Agreed chequered, but I don't know ford and Corbs?

I think Corbsiero has had 3 pretty good games, he was excellent against Italy!

by TycroesOsprey Sat 25 Feb 2012, 9:03 pm

The welsh scrum munched the English a couple of times today, Im still unconvinced by Cole and Corbisero and certainly dont see either as Lions. Healey and Jenkins are the looseheads over corbisero anyday.

by **Biltong** Sat 25 Feb 2012, 9:06 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Agreed chequered, but I don't know ford and Corbs?

I think Corbsiero has had 3 pretty good games, he was excellent against Italy!

Corbsiero- thumbsup

OK know him, I don't know of all the abbreviations of all the european players.

by Seagultaf Sat 25 Feb 2012, 9:40 pm

samuraidragon wrote:Really? Did Henson get charged down and yellow carded? Did he get turned over on his own 25? Did he miss penalties to touch (actually I think he did once)?

Very , very poor.

Poor I agree, but as bad as Hook against France last season, I dont think so!

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