Lions XV

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Starting XV only. If the 1st test was tomorrow, and all are fit and well:

1. G Jenkins
2. M Rees
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. S Warburton
8. S O'Brien

9. M Phillips
10. J Sexton
11. T Bowe
12. J Roberts
13. B O'Driscoll
14. G North
15. L Halfpenny

Disagree by your logic Carr should be playing then considering he was in one of the the worst teams in Ireland, Wales, Scotland AND Italy and was 22 and top try scorer.

More to it that that. Anyways sure it's your opinoin and you're well entitled to it.

adambarney wrote:george ford better then them both, wade better then visser all day long plus he top tryscorer in england at 20 years old with a team 2nd from bottom.

Have to agree with you about George Ford. He was outstanding for England U20s last season. He looks to be special.

Considering the form over both weekends

1 Jenkins
2 Best
3 Cole
4 Hamilton
5 Grey
6 Lydiate
7 Robshaw
8 Denton
9 Phillips
10 Preistland
11 North
12 Farrell
13 Davies
14 Clerc
15 Kearney.

Adam, exactly what is your native language ? If it is indeed English could I suggest a wee trip to your GP or most probably your psychiatrist is in order. Otherwise some lessons in spelling, grammar and most probably sums too.

Flankertye- Little known fact is that unfortunately Clerc is unavailable due to the fact that he is in fact (you won't believe this!) French. I know it sounds silly that a man called Francois is French!!!!!!!

Ahhh my apologies. Wasn't really paying attention. Errrmmm, god annoying I'd probably have to for Cuthbert, or even Halfpenny.

blimey some pedants in here (and that says a lot coming from me!), why all the picking over people's spelling? seems a bit out of order.

Not sure exactly who I'd have in my whole team but I'd have a back three of North, Kearney and Halfpenny, for sure.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Disagree by your logic Carr should be playing then considering he was in one of the the worst teams in Ireland, Wales, Scotland AND Italy and was 22 and top try scorer.

More to it that that. Anyways sure it's your opinoin and you're well entitled to it.

Carrs never been top try scorer! It has gone to a scottish based player for 3 years running now, and looks set for a fourth.

09- Thom Evans
10- Visser
11- Visser
12- likely visser again as hes miles ahead of the next highest.

Its not a big deal I know, but I cant help it

I can't believe so many people are overlooking Foden. And I'm Irish, and from the same neck of the woods as Kearney. Foden is the best defensive fullback. Which will be useful against the best attacking backs in the world. And he's great in attack too. A Brilliant player.

Kearney is top class, and probably the most reliable fullback under the high ball in the world. But I can't see the Aussie's kicking it to much. Halfpenny has a great kicking game, but I really think Foden is the best fullback playing in Europe at the moment (after Nacewa, but he's not eligible).

Chunky Norwich wrote:Starting XV only. If the 1st test was tomorrow, and all are fit and well:

1. G Jenkins
2. M Rees
3. D Cole
4. R Gray
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. S Warburton
8. S O'Brien

9. M Phillips
10. J Sexton
11. T Bowe
12. J Roberts
13. B O'Driscoll
14. G North
15. L Halfpenny

Where's Bradley?

1.Jenkins
2.Best
3.A.Jones
4.O'Connell
5.Lawes
6.Lydiate
7.Warburton (c)
8.Faletau
9.Cusiter
10.Priestland
11.Halfpenny
12.Tuilagi
13.Farrell
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

The Lions pack in 2013 will be a legendry vintage.

Strongly considering putting a wager on a 3-0 win.

Jenkins - Best - Jones
Gray - O'Connoll
Ferris - O'Brien - Warbuton

They'd put their picture over the fire to keep the children away.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I can't believe so many people are overlooking Foden. And I'm Irish, and from the same neck of the woods as Kearney. Foden is the best defensive fullback. Which will be useful against the best attacking backs in the world. And he's great in attack too. A Brilliant player.

Kearney is top class, and probably the most reliable fullback under the high ball in the world. But I can't see the Aussie's kicking it to much. Halfpenny has a great kicking game, but I really think Foden is the best fullback playing in Europe at the moment (after Nacewa, but he's not eligible).

I know you hate stats Feckless R, but the Reds kick the most of all the Super rugby teams (that little gem of info came from Matt Williams as far as I can remember).

Agree with you about Foden, he is a very classy fullback.

I'm english but I do really rate Kearney he was superb in the 1st week.

This is my current thoughts on the squad, first 15, second 15 and set of subs making a touring 37

Jenkins, Healy
Best, Ford
Jones, Cole
POC, Grey
AWJ, Charteris - Charteris in based on improvements through the world cup
Ferris, Lydiate
Warburton, SOB
Felatau, Heaslip

Phillips, Murray
Sexton, Priestland
North, Trimble
Roberts, Farrell - Farrell goes as back up 10
JD2, Tuilagi - Tuilagi's in on last years form
Bowe, Ashton - Ashton needs to improve form and dont know if he has the attitude but has the raw skills to cause anyone problems
Kearney, Foden

Corbisiero, Rees, Palmer, R Jones/Croft, Blair/Cusiter, Earls, Halfpenny

Feckless Rogue wrote:BBC website says the WRU will let Gatland coach the Lions is they want him. I'd say he'll probably get it. And rightly so. He's done a brilliant job with Wales.

I reckon he might choose POC as captain over Warburton to alleviate any fans concerns of Welsh bias. That's assuming he plans to start POC.

That's one reason why I think we shouldn't name a tour captain, he's guaranteed a place in the first test regardless of form. I'd much rather see 4 or 5 contenders named as a "captaincy group" and them to share the captaincy throughout the tour. Then pick whichever one has shined the brightest as your test captain and, assuming other members of the group have made the starting line-up, you will also have leaders all over the pitch.

For example, I would have possibly looked at starting the first test with Shaw and Alun-Wyn Jones in 2009, but as O'Connell was captain Geech pretty much had his hands tied.

robbo277 wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:BBC website says the WRU will let Gatland coach the Lions is they want him. I'd say he'll probably get it. And rightly so. He's done a brilliant job with Wales.

I reckon he might choose POC as captain over Warburton to alleviate any fans concerns of Welsh bias. That's assuming he plans to start POC.

That's one reason why I think we shouldn't name a tour captain, he's guaranteed a place in the first test regardless of form. I'd much rather see 4 or 5 contenders named as a "captaincy group" and them to share the captaincy throughout the tour. Then pick whichever one has shined the brightest as your test captain and, assuming other members of the group have made the starting line-up, you will also have leaders all over the pitch.

For example, I would have possibly looked at starting the first test with Shaw and Alun-Wyn Jones in 2009, but as O'Connell was captain Geech pretty much had his hands tied.

Even though Victor Matfield has said that Paul O'Connell is the toughest opponent he has ever played against? There were some very poor selection on the last Lions tour, but Paul O'Connell wasn't one of them. AWJ was too lightweight to parner POC. Better balance with Shaw.

Considering this will be Warburton's first tour and it now seems that its a requiremement that the coaching staff need to have been on a tour before either as a player or a coach, its hardly likely that Warburton would get the captaincy since he is a first time tourist. As well as that he seems to pick up a lot of injuries (dead leg last week, and misses out this week now).

Mike Phillips really impresses me these days. He really is feisty. I'd have him before Warburton.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I know it seems a bit mental but I truely believe these guys could explode onto the world stage in the next year. I think as soon as Visser is Scottish qualified (not sure when) he is going to show people he is one of the best wingers in the Northern Hemisphere that isn't French.

I'd rather have one Visser than a hundred Ashton's or Norths. He does things other wingers are just not capable of. Being the highest try scorer in Celtic league two years running (soon to be three) pretty much shows he is a try scoring machine with very good spacial awareness. I think he is the Digby Ioane of the NH.

1. Jenkins/Cian Healey
2. Rees/ Ford
3. Adam J/ Murray
4. POC/AWJ
5. Gray/Ryan
6. Ferris/Lydiate
7. Warburton/SOB
8. Denton/ Faletau
9. Phillips/Murray
10. Priestland/Sexton
11. North/Bowe
12. Roberts/ Barritt
13. Tuilagi/Davies
14. Ashton/ Halfpenny
15. Kearney/ Foden

why is no one mentioning Corbisiero? Comfortably the best LH over both week-ends so far, and covers both sides of the scrum too.

Maybe because Jenkins and Healy are particularly highly rated these days. Jenkins has been one of the top looseheads for years. Healy's always been a monster carrier. He was never gonna be a fully accomplished scrummager at such a young age. But it's come on a huge amount in the last year. His performance against Australia in the RWC caused his reputation to shoot up.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:why is no one mentioning Corbisiero? Comfortably the best LH over both week-ends so far, and covers both sides of the scrum too.

Re: Team of round 2
by RubyGuby Today at 12:13

.Corbisiero has to be in there for me instead of Jenkins .


Threre you go CFC

Coach: Gatland
Front Row - Wales
Second Row - Scotland & England
Back Row - Wales & Ireland
Backline - Wales

Throw in a few from the other three unions onto the bench to keep spirits and camaraderie up.

Looking ahead it is a little concerning that the two stand out candidates for the 10 shirt both have a tendency to have mares from kicking tee! And don't think halfpenny is any better! Reckon the test starter will be the one who shows most from tee over next 18 months. Assuming noone else puts their hands up.

Why don't you think 1/2p is any better - he's 7/8 for the 6 Nations

We had the debate about Visser before. Until he has played internationals we won't know for sure but given his record in the Rabo / magners where he outscores everyone else by a huge margin for 3 seasons in a row despite playing for a loosing team is a huge thing.

IMO he is the best.

Feckless Rogue wrote:. Foden is the best defensive fullback.

Foden the best defensive 15? Even before last weekend that would be best described as codswallop. He's the worst defensive 15 out of the current home nations choices. Constant positioning woes, and prone to the brainmelt as we saw on Saturday.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:. Foden is the best defensive fullback.

Foden the best defensive 15? Even before last weekend that would be best described as codswallop. He's the worst defensive 15 out of the current home nations choices. Constant positioning woes, and prone to the brainmelt as we saw on Saturday.

I disagree. I think his positioning is very good. His brainfart at the weekend was down to a poor gameplan by England. Foden isn’t playing his natural game at the moment. I’d say Nacewa is the best fullback in Europe with Halfpenny/Foden/Kearney as the next best.

Mickado wrote: I’d say Nacewa is the best fullback in Europe with Halfpenny/Foden/Kearney as the next best.

You don't rate any French 15's in the top 5 or so?

Medard is far better than Foden for a start.

I rate all 4 of those players ahead of Medard.

Leinster played Toulouse and Northampton in the HC last year, Foden scored a try in the final and made at least one epic try saving tackle, the only thing I can remember Medard doing was being steamrollered by a prop. Medard is a quality player, just not as good as Foden.

1. Healy
2. Hartley
3. Jones
4. Gray
5. POC
6. Brown
7. Warburton
8. Denton
9. Phillips
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. North
15. Halfpenny

bsando wrote:1. Healy
2. Hartley
3. Jones
4. Gray
5. POC
6. Brown
7. Warburton
8. Denton
9. Phillips
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. North
15. Halfpenny

A third of the Lions team potentially Scottish eh? Wow.

I also don't understand how Cian Healy can be anywhere near starting for the Lions. I know it's the Aussie front row - but Healy is a terrible scrummaging prop.

Not in my book.

Although I do agree to claim some of those Scotsmen is a bit of a stretch

Laidlaw, Visser, Denton, Brown have all got a lot more to do before they are serious contenders. I'll go further, as things stand only Denton would be considered for the squad let alone the team.

1. Jenkins
2. Ford
3. Cole
4. Gray
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. Denton
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Kearney/Foden

When did Cian Healy last have a decent game against a quality tighthead at test level?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I also don't understand how Cian Healy can be anywhere near starting for the Lions. I know it's the Aussie front row - but Healy is a terrible scrummaging prop.

He had no problems with Jones 2 weeks ago,he's also stood up to the best French and English club sides.Yes he has occasionally taken a pummeling but that's to be expected since he's 24 an age when most props are still trying to break through to their clubs first team.

If you search around you can find a good few matches where he was beaten in the scrum but the impressive thing about Healy is you'll struggle to find an opponent who has dominated him regularly.He learns from his mistakes and is now a far stronger scrummager than he was when he started out,he's only going to improve and will be a beast (injury permitting) by the time he's 30.

Healy has done fine with the Welsh front row, who are up there with the best in the row. Plus he is young, and has a long career ahead of him (hopefully). Add in how effective he is in the loose, and you have a world class loosehead prop. He made many world 15s during the world cup, and rightly so.

If Rennie plays like he did over the weekend consistently, I can't see anyone else getting that 7 shirt. He is the sort of player I hope O'Brien develops into.

Rory you never came back to me on the Barclay thread last week - did you get it in the end.

Yes I did, though I don't think John Barclay is quite as unreliable as that

asoreleftshoulder wrote: the impressive thing about Healy is you'll struggle to find an opponent who has dominated him regularly.

Adam Jones has dominated him regualrly. Every time I've seen them face each other.

I'm not saying Healy is rubbish. Far from it. But the best in the UK and Ireland? Not a chance. Jenkins and Corbisero are streets ahead.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Adam Jones has dominated him regualrly. Every time I've seen them face each other.

I'm not saying Healy is rubbish. Far from it. But the best in the UK and Ireland? Not a chance. Jenkins and Corbisero are streets ahead.

He didn't do it 2 weeks ago.

As others have said you only have to go back 2 weeks - Healy did fine

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes I did, though I don't think John Barclay is quite as unreliable as that

Nah, Jones got the better of him again.

He didn't quite split him in half - like he did in the world cup, but itw as enough.

I knew someone would criticise the inclusion of more than one Scottish player I have never really enjoyed the lions tour in previous years as it is more often than not the English, Welsh and Irish Lions. Saying that, Scotland haven't really had the talent the last decade or so. I actually genuinely was not trying to favour or exclude any nations players, although I did think Best might have been a better option for hooker, but went with Hartley.

Visser needs no introduction, top try scorer celtic league 2 years running (soon to be 3) and scored 2 tries against England for Barbarians, who he gelled with very well. I have said a few times that I think he is the best no.11 in Europe.

Denton, two starts for Scotland, two superb performances, solid ball carrier and is very consistent for Edinburgh. Heaslip crossed my mind too but i think right now Denton is on better form.

Brown, missing him just now for Scotland, is very consistent for both Scotland and Saracens. Croft, Lydiate and Ferris would all be good candidates too though so in reality I think he may miss out.

Laidlaw, yes he very new, probably won't get picked and is a bit slack on D, but against Australia I think he would be a good choice for unleashing our backline/running rugby. Bring on Flood, Sexton or Preistland if we want a more controlled territorial game.

Healy is one of my fav Irish players and he had a stormer against Australia in the world cup.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Nah, Jones got the better of him again.

He didn't quite split him in half - like he did in the world cup, but itw as enough.

Well that's your opinion but you won't find many who agree with you,every review of the match I've seen had it as an even battle in the scrum and Healy doing a little more in the loose.

Neither of them dominated their opponent imo but Healy is getting stronger every time,he's so young and alreay has more top level experience than most props can ever hope to get in their 20's.

Also you've acknowledged his perfromacne against Jones improved a lot in just 6 months so imagine what he'll be like in another 16 months,he's only going to get better.curve is only going up.

Plus Healy will pumping out the tunes after Lions win the series

bsando Vissser was given the run around by Trimble a few weeks back - until he plays International rugby he cannot be considered.

Brown ditto until he plays Internatioanl rugby again he is comfortably behind both Ferris and Lydiate.

Laidlaw has started one game at 10.

Bottom line is Gray apart no Scotsman has put his hand up yet. They are some potential players but they are no more than that at this stage.

Having said that I would agree Woodward's selection was a disgrace and showed unacceptable bias.

Reality is a Lions team now would be 7 to 9 Welshmen, 5 or 6 Irishmen and a token Scotsman and/or Englishman. That is where we are.

If Rennie, Denton and Hogg produce those performances week in week out, they will be pushing very very hard for a starting place. Rennie was just phenomenal, and Denton/Hogg have huge potential.