The Official 2013 Wales v England bickering thread.

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

2013 bickering thread

OK, every year we see threads that actually contain really good rugby discussion derailed by the ongoing Wales vs England bickering and WUMMING! I will name no names. I guess we have all been guilty.

Since most of the general bickering comes from the respective fans of Wales and England ; I thought I would create a thread for it in an effort to keep decent rugby discussion relatively WUM free in other threads.

Let it commence

[mystiroakey]

I believe in dragons anyway- I think it was possible for a big animal to breath fire. Its scientifically possible

[Portnoy]

Mysti. That's a Big Mac you are being confused by. Either that or a lamb jalfrezi.

[mystiroakey]

Saint George clearly slayed that dragon. And no Big macs existed back then

[ScarletSpiderman]

I though St George existed- but historians just argue about when!

Also ain't he paintron saint of Germany, Prostitutes and the clap too?

[mystiroakey]

I think he is the patron saint of many nations.

He got about abit did george.. Slaying loch ness monsters , dragons and aliens i think

[Portnoy]

Saint George clearly slayed that dragon. And no Big macs existed back then

Time travel is possible Mysti.
Saint Doctorwho sorted it. He's a time and space traveller. He went from London to Cardiff.

[mystiroakey]

Actually time travel is possible- but not backwards time travel

[ScarletSpiderman]

Actually time travel is possible- but not backwards time travel

Backward time travel is possible, you wait in Aus until it is 00:01 in the morning and then travel back across the time line, simples.

[munkian]

Couldn't you just go forward in time until it had been invented ?

[mystiroakey]

Thats not time travel Scarlet.

however if you travel fast enough you can experience time dilation.

[gregortree]

If you read Stephen Hawkins, backward time travel is theoretically possible. You need to catch up with the light 'cone' previously emitted by events. This is only possible where time/light/ space are non-linear and so you avoid the to travel 'back' at light speed, but instead take a short cut in curved time. Or something like that. We could all go back to any Lions tour we fancy seeing again, by flying clockwise aroun the globe at enough circuits & speed.

[mystiroakey]

Got ya- sweet..

I dont wanna see any lions tours though. Waste of a trip that.

[gregortree]

At the risk of me causing an outbreak of bickering, may I suggest Wales fans could slide off to the halcyon days of the '70s and shake hands with those legendary greats. And just to be even handed, England fans can head off to the Telstra November 2003 for one more look at THAT drop goal. Scotland fans to Murrafield 1990 and the David Sole slow march.
I foresee all this even without a time machine.

[ScarletSpiderman]

At the risk of me causing an outbreak of bickering, may I suggest Wales fans could slide off to the halcyon days of the '70s and shake hands with those legendary greats. And just to be even handed, England fans can head off to the Telstra November 2003 for one more look at THAT drop goal. Scotland fans to Murrafield 1990 and the David Sole slow march.
I foresee all this even without a time machine.

WHy head back to the 70s when we have a superior side now?

[gregortree]

Don't know Scarlet ... why ?

[anotherworldofpain]

When Scotland declare independence, would it be easier for Wales and England to be known as West and East Briton? And would that redefined relationship lead to closer comraderie and an end to this decades old petty sibling rivalry? or just make it worse?

[Portnoy]

"decades" awop?
'centuries' is the word you were striving to mean.

And Scotland can have its independence any day they want so long as they are outside the Stirling area or agree to set their budgets and taxes within Sterling constraints. Or in the Euro zone (good luck to them on that).

[gregortree]

Grey Ghost, no, it could not make it worse.
And 'East Breton' is really an oxymoron, as the ancient Bretons were all pushed west by the 'Sais'.

[anotherworldofpain]

"decades" awop?
'centuries' is the word you were striving to mean.

That long? Then it's more important than I thought! We must them friends again.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Greror - and you lot decided to call us all foreigners (Walhaz - later Welsh) even in our own country!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Grey Ghost, no, it could not make it worse.
And 'East Breton' is really an oxymoron, as the ancient Bretons were all pushed west by the 'Sais'.

Bogus, bogus, bogus. Most of the Britons stayed were they were and were assimilated.

Unless you really do mean the Bretons. I don't know that much about their history.

[gregortree]

We English are really Germans. All the great warriors and rugby players emigrated to 'England' in the 5th - 6th century AD. Which is why the Germans are no good at rugby to this very day:

"Sahson, (Low German: Sassen) were a confederation of Germanic tribes on the North German plain, some of whom migrated to the British Isles and formed part of the merged group of Anglo-Saxons that would eventually carve out the first united Kingdom of England."
So there you have it. UK = England: (Wiki)

[mystiroakey]

We are not germans mate,

[Morgannwg]

Why don't they rename New Zealand (seeing as it is still a colony) New Britain, New England & Wales, or Wayne Barnesland?

[ScarletSpiderman]

We are not germans mate,

Your National A Team (England Saxons) would lead peole to believe otherwise

The Saxons (Latin: Saxones, Old English: Seaxe, Old Saxon: Sahson, Low German: Sassen) were a confederation of Germanic tribes on the North German plain, some of whom migrated to the British Isles during the Middle Ages and formed part of the merged group of Anglo-Saxons that would eventually carve out the first united Kingdom of England.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Why don't they rename New Zealand (seeing as it is still a colony) New Britain, New England & Wales, or Wayne Barnesland?

Imagine being named after a p1$$y part of the Nethlands that most people aint even heard of, surely that would be embarassing enough.

[mystiroakey]

Some of the northern lot are germans- I reakon I am from NORDIC STOCK

[gregortree]

GermanicAngloSaxonDanishJutish mongrels.
Plus some recent SH incomers.
I have no problem with the last 15c of our rugby history.

[mystiroakey]

Thats why we are the best because we basically have evolved genetics from many different super races.

The poor Celtic lads are more imbred

[gregortree]

The Celts according to Wiki:
"Some, therefore, of the miserable remnant, being taken in the mountains, were murdered in great numbers; others, constrained by famine, came and yielded themselves to be slaves for ever to their foes, running the risk of being instantly slain, which truly was the greatest favour that could be offered them: some others passed beyond the seas with loud lamentations instead of the voice of exhortation...Others, committing the safeguard of their lives, which were in continual jeopardy, to the mountains, precipices, thickly wooded forests, and to the rocks of the seas."

I don't think the Cornish have quite forgiven us, but I was glad when Vickery was English.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Why don't they rename New Zealand (seeing as it is still a colony) New Britain, New England & Wales, or Wayne Barnesland?

Well the original names for the North and South Islands were "New Ulster" and "New Munster". Unlike "New South Wales" the names didn't stick

[ScarletSpiderman]

GermanicAngloSaxonDanishJutish+Left-over-celt mongrels.
Plus some recent SH incomers.
I have no problem with the last 15c of our rugby history.

fixed it for you

[gregortree]

thank you Scarlet,
PS:
And any Norwegians out there listening, yes sorry I forgot the Vikings.
And any French ? Sorry I forgot the Normans.

[Morgannwg]

Personally Pete, I think Wayne Barnesland would stick quite will. Forget the All Blacks it's all about the All Barnes team!

[Morgannwg]

The latest from Wiki, RE the tribe of disease ridden nomads that emigrated here many moons ago;
In the eyes of the world, the British people – and in particular the English – are arrogant, unfriendly and have almost no sense of humour.

Research carried out by VisitBritain found that visitors from 35 different nations listed Britain a poor 16th overall on a list of countries likely to offer the most friendly welcome. And it is some of our nearest European neighbours who are particularly scathing about our national character.

The French had particular problems with the English – rather than the Scots and the Welsh – and were the least likely of any of the countries surveyed to visit the United Kingdom, despite their close proximity.

"The French do not perceive they would receive a warm welcome if they visited the UK," the report revealed.

"The attributes relating to human aspects are the weakest, with low mean scores for being welcoming, having a good sense of humour or friendliness. Most of the negativity towards Britain was towards the English people, and what was described as their reserve or arrogance."


I thought some of you were only arrogant about your sub-standard rugby team . Don't worry, I won't let a little survey put me off you guys.

[Morgannwg]

Why don't they rename New Zealand (seeing as it is still a colony) New Britain, New England & Wales, or Wayne Barnesland?

Imagine being named after a p1$$y part of the Nethlands that most people aint even heard of, surely that would be embarassing enough.

I thought it was a Danish island? But yeah, you are correct anyway. Is it any wonder why people like the wanted to go live in England?

[ScarletSpiderman]

thank you Scarlet,
PS:
And any Norwegians out there listening, yes sorry I forgot the Vikings.
And any French ? Sorry I forgot the Normans.

And you could probably add any other nation from around the globe, there have been a large influx of Poles and Italians (post World War 2), and now numerous different eastern european, asian, african, and caribean (sp) inports too.

Oh and thinking of your national team New Zealanders, Samoans, and South Africans

[mystiroakey]

and yet we just hosted the most welcoming Olympics ever. I think its clear the problem is the french/englisg divide- we compete on an economic and political front, or more to the point a man sausage measuring contest. The french are seen as the most arrogant and unwelcoming of them all in the western world so its hardly suprsiing they vote for us over themselves..

Personally i love france and the french, but its clear that they are the butt of jokes in USA and UK for being the most arrogant and unwelcoming.. The welsh and scottish arnt threatening enough. We(english) have allways beaten the french to almost everything- so they are allways jealous(que they bias shown against our cyclists).

But at the end of the day- London and Paris are by far the most visited capital cities in the world and that is the fact of it. Your article would be exactly the same v the french from a UK pespective.

[gregortree]

Scarlet
I mentioned the SH incomers already.
Morgan
I'm heartbroken that the French do not seem to like us.
We are the best of their neighbours.

[Morgannwg]

Here is the article, it's not really from wiki: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/736311/Arrogant-unfriendly-and-no-sense-of-humour-what-foreign-tourists-think-of-the-English.html).

A lot of people say the English, French, Australian, South African and American peoples are arrogant but I've never seen it having met a few people from these countries; and in some cases visited. If anything, I have met a lot of arrogant Welsh people!

[ScarletSpiderman]

Why don't they rename New Zealand (seeing as it is still a colony) New Britain, New England & Wales, or Wayne Barnesland?

Imagine being named after a p1$$y part of the Nethlands that most people aint even heard of, surely that would be embarassing enough.

I thought it was a Danish island? But yeah, you are correct anyway. Is it any wonder why people like the wanted to go live in England?

Is it? Thought it was Netherlands, but i am could be wrong (my knowledge of othe nations is not the best). I thought Ghost was a bit kiwi who only wanted to point out how crap anyone other than the kiwis were, but didn't know he was living in England (but that makes sense i guess).

[ScarletSpiderman]

gregortree - thinking about it hte majority of them (SH) are actually from European stock origninally, with a bit of local blood thrown in.

[Portnoy]

Compulsory DNA testing should be made compulsory.

Everyone should be made to support the dominant gene in their inheritance.

Got a feeling I'd have to chant allez La France though .

Mind you, London showed up well in the Olympics despite its multicultural make-up. Even the London Welsh were featured in the closing ceremony even though they were decidedly iffy.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Port - They (I believe) can trace the Y chromosone, and trace your male family line to a point. But generally you just need to look at peoples surnames to see where their family line origninated.

[gregortree]

Back to the French. I suppose can understand their attitude:

Crécy
Azincourt
Trafalgar
Waterloo
June 1944

What's for them to like ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The french are seen as the most arrogant and unwelcoming of them all in the western world

The problem is that most people's first visit to France will be to Paris; Parisians are known throughout the rest of France for being rude. So Parisians give a bad first impression and people assume that all Frenchmen (and Frenchwomen) are the same.

[mystiroakey]

I like them Luckless - But i go to france all the time. They are very arrogant everywhere- but i dont see that as being potentially rude. The point is don t ever listen to an article from french data as to are the english arrogant and unwelcoming. It really is seen the other way around.

New york is rude, london is rude, Paris is rude- Basically Big cities are 'rude'. That is nothing to do with the way the population acts though , just the way big cities can seem to. The french on the other hand are renowned for being arrogant

[Morgannwg]

Port - They (I believe) can trace the Y chromosone, and trace your male family line to a point. But generally you just need to look at peoples surnames to see where their family line origninated.

Not true, well from a Welsh perspecitve, as the Welsh didn't have surnames. So a lot were given and then passed on through the generations. At the time of the Norman conquest/breeding period, William/Robert was the most popular name so a lot of families took these names throughout England and Wales.

You get can Welsh surnames though, they are usually the fathers names anglecised.

[mystiroakey]

BTW one of my Engineers was working in Newport last week, as well as other northern areas of england. And he told me everyone was so chilled in comparison to london- I do also know that from personal experience. Its just the way it is

[Luckless Pedestrian]

BTW one of my Engineers was working in Newport last week... he told me everyone was so chilled in comparison to london

That's only 'cos everyone was drugged up probably.

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